Alternative to Animate Dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative to Animate Dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arganis
07-27-06, 11:51 AM One of my players is currently seeking a non-evil alternative to Animate Dead. I am currently running an exhaustive analysis between Animate Dead, Animate Objects, Animate Plants, and Summon Monster, but my notes are so disorganized at this point that there's no way I can type them here.

The basic desirables are:

Spell Level: Wizard 4
Effect: 1 created/animated creature
Duration: 10 min/level

Creature features:
Variable HD (Up to Caster Level?)
Intelligence Score (Like Homunculus)
Minor variations in size (tiny to large?)
Minor variations in abilities (Bite, flight, constrict, etc.)

If anyone feels compelled to take a crack at this, I could use the third-party input.
Zombayz1
07-27-06, 01:54 PM Animate Dead is only evil depending on how you treat negative energy.

If it's only another energy type, than Animate Dead is actually less evil than creating a golem(which involves the binding of an elemental spirit).

If negative energy is evil incarnate, then animate dead is just as evil as opening a gate to the Abyss.

Aside from that, Animate Object works on corpses.
Garrinol
07-27-06, 01:58 PM However, if one views the desecration of a body as an evil act, then adding the provider that the animating mage must contact the soul of the deceased and recieve their permission (or have obtained their permission before death) to animate them could change the spell from evil to neutral or good.
kelvinaw273
07-27-06, 02:05 PM However, if one views the desecration of a body as an evil act, then adding the provider that the animating mage must contact the soul of the deceased and recieve their permission (or have obtained their permission before death) to animate them could change the spell from evil to neutral or good.

Does this make a modern autopsy an evil act?

I think that the circumstances should always be assessed. In the campaign world I am working on, Animate Dead is a spell forbidden to the priests of Anubis except under certain circumstances.
Garrinol
07-27-06, 02:13 PM Does this make a modern autopsy an evil act?

I think that the circumstances should always be assessed. In the campaign world I am working on, Animate Dead is a spell forbidden to the priests of Anubis except under certain circumstances.

Well maybe, but a) Our modern world has subjective alignment, while the D&D world has objective alignment and b) Our modern society is far more lax on what is viewed as 'desecration' in general.
Arganis
07-27-06, 03:04 PM Oh yeah, instead of making up a spell let's talk about alignment. :tantrum:
Tormsskull
07-27-06, 03:08 PM Guys, don't derail the thread with a silly argument re is Animate Dead evil. Provide input based on the OP.

The basic desirables are:

Spell Level: Wizard 4
Effect: 1 created/animated creature
Duration: 10 min/level

Creature features:
Variable HD (Up to Caster Level?)
Intelligence Score (Like Homunculus)
Minor variations in size (tiny to large?)
Minor variations in abilities (Bite, flight, constrict, etc.)

Comparing to animate dead, that spell requires a corpse. I believe the duration is permanent though (IIRC). If you are removing the requirement of the corpse, but limitin the duration to 10 min/level, then it is slightly underpowered compared to AD so far (IMHO).

This sounds very much like a Summon Monster spell, and I believe those spells have a duration of 1 min/level. I'd just create a new spell called Enhance Summoned Monster. enhance grants the summoned monster additional abilities/intelligence and a longer duration.

How does this balance up? If you make the Enhance Summoned Monster = to the level of Summoned Monster (i.e. to enhance a Summon Monster 4 monster you'll need to use an Enhanced Summoned Monster 4 or higher) it will result in an additional spell slot being spent.

The enhance could increase all the creature's HD (along with all stats associated with it) by a third* (3 HD creatures become 4, 6 become 8, and so on).

The caster can then choose to give up one or more of the increased HD to buy the creature a different size or special abilities. You'd have to make a little list, but something like:

Size variation (1 category): 1 HD
Flight (average): 1 HD
Increased Damage Die: 1 HD
New Damage Type: 2 HD

This would take a lot of DM input, but could be a really fun spell for casters, would apply to both arcane and divine (though you could nurf the divine version if you think divine casters are too powerful already), and basically would create 18 new spells.

Anyhow, hope you like it.

* = or less according to your sense of game balance.
Arganis
07-27-06, 03:54 PM Comparing to animate dead, that spell requires a corpse. I believe the duration is permanent though (IIRC). If you are removing the requirement of the corpse, but limitin the duration to 10 min/level, then it is slightly underpowered compared to AD so far (IMHO).

I am still envisioning that some kind of body is required (Vegetable or Inanimate matter).
This sounds very much like a Summon Monster spell, and I believe those spells have a duration of 1 min/level. I'd just create a new spell called Enhance Summoned Monster. enhance grants the summoned monster additional abilities/intelligence and a longer duration.

The summon line is in rounds/level, so something as powerful as a summoned monster of equal level is out of the question since it will last longer. It seems like the average CR of a summoned monster is approximately Caster Level - 4, with deviations that seem related to special abilities.

Size variation (1 category): 1 HD
Flight (average): 1 HD
Increased Damage Die: 1 HD
New Damage Type: 2 HD

Purchasing special abilities with HD is brilliant. I like the idea a great deal. Purchasing size at the expense of HD seems counterintuitive though...

Hmm. I'm close to a first draft. More to follow.
Garrinol
07-27-06, 04:52 PM Earthen guardian
Wizard 4 (conjuration I think? Maybe transmutation)
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant (see description)
Target: Special
casting: 1 minute

To create an earthen guardian, the wizard must first craft a vaguely representative body from either wood, dirt, stone or some other inanimate material lying around, the creation does not have to be skillful in any way, and can simply be piles of dirt in approximate shapes, although more skilled sculptings create more aesthetically pleasing Earthen Guardians. These craftings usually take between 5 and 10 minutes, depending on the detail.

The caster then place a gem worth 100 gp inscribed with magical runes on the creations forehead and casts the spell, once completed the gem is absorbed in to the creature, the magical runes display on its forehead and it comes to life. an earthen guardian is a construct with the following statline

1d10 hit dice (25hp)
initiative +0
speed 30 ft
AC: 13 (+3 natural)
Base attack/grapple: +0/+1
Attacks: slam +2 melee (1d6+1)
Damage reduction 5/bludgeoning
Str 13 Dex 11 Con - Int - Wis 10 Cha 1
Fort +0 Ref +0 Will +0
Alignment: Always neutral

Earthen guardians are mindless but can follow simple orders, they will serve the caster until either he is destroyed or they are, if either happens they crumble back in to their components and the gem is lost, you may control up to twice your hit dice in earthen guardians.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arganis 07-27-06, 11:51 AM	One of my players is currently seeking a non-evil alternative to Animate Dead. I am currently running an exhaustive analysis between Animate Dead, Animate Objects, Animate Plants, and Summon Monster, but my notes are so disorganized at this point that there's no way I can type them here. The basic desirables are: Spell Level: Wizard 4 Effect: 1 created/animated creature Duration: 10 min/level Creature features: Variable HD (Up to Caster Level?) Intelligence Score (Like Homunculus) Minor variations in size (tiny to large?) Minor variations in abilities (Bite, flight, constrict, etc.) If anyone feels compelled to take a crack at this, I could use the third-party input.
Zombayz1 07-27-06, 01:54 PM	Animate Dead is only evil depending on how you treat negative energy. If it's only another energy type, than Animate Dead is actually less evil than creating a golem(which involves the binding of an elemental spirit). If negative energy is evil incarnate, then animate dead is just as evil as opening a gate to the Abyss. Aside from that, Animate Object works on corpses.
Garrinol 07-27-06, 01:58 PM	However, if one views the desecration of a body as an evil act, then adding the provider that the animating mage must contact the soul of the deceased and recieve their permission (or have obtained their permission before death) to animate them could change the spell from evil to neutral or good.
kelvinaw273 07-27-06, 02:05 PM	However, if one views the desecration of a body as an evil act, then adding the provider that the animating mage must contact the soul of the deceased and recieve their permission (or have obtained their permission before death) to animate them could change the spell from evil to neutral or good. Does this make a modern autopsy an evil act? I think that the circumstances should always be assessed. In the campaign world I am working on, Animate Dead is a spell forbidden to the priests of Anubis except under certain circumstances.
Garrinol 07-27-06, 02:13 PM	Does this make a modern autopsy an evil act? I think that the circumstances should always be assessed. In the campaign world I am working on, Animate Dead is a spell forbidden to the priests of Anubis except under certain circumstances. Well maybe, but a) Our modern world has subjective alignment, while the D&D world has objective alignment and b) Our modern society is far more lax on what is viewed as 'desecration' in general.
Arganis 07-27-06, 03:04 PM	Oh yeah, instead of making up a spell let's talk about alignment. :tantrum:
Tormsskull 07-27-06, 03:08 PM	Guys, don't derail the thread with a silly argument re is Animate Dead evil. Provide input based on the OP. The basic desirables are: Spell Level: Wizard 4 Effect: 1 created/animated creature Duration: 10 min/level Creature features: Variable HD (Up to Caster Level?) Intelligence Score (Like Homunculus) Minor variations in size (tiny to large?) Minor variations in abilities (Bite, flight, constrict, etc.) Comparing to animate dead, that spell requires a corpse. I believe the duration is permanent though (IIRC). If you are removing the requirement of the corpse, but limitin the duration to 10 min/level, then it is slightly underpowered compared to AD so far (IMHO). This sounds very much like a Summon Monster spell, and I believe those spells have a duration of 1 min/level. I'd just create a new spell called Enhance Summoned Monster. enhance grants the summoned monster additional abilities/intelligence and a longer duration. How does this balance up? If you make the Enhance Summoned Monster = to the level of Summoned Monster (i.e. to enhance a Summon Monster 4 monster you'll need to use an Enhanced Summoned Monster 4 or higher) it will result in an additional spell slot being spent. The enhance could increase all the creature's HD (along with all stats associated with it) by a third* (3 HD creatures become 4, 6 become 8, and so on). The caster can then choose to give up one or more of the increased HD to buy the creature a different size or special abilities. You'd have to make a little list, but something like: Size variation (1 category): 1 HD Flight (average): 1 HD Increased Damage Die: 1 HD New Damage Type: 2 HD This would take a lot of DM input, but could be a really fun spell for casters, would apply to both arcane and divine (though you could nurf the divine version if you think divine casters are too powerful already), and basically would create 18 new spells. Anyhow, hope you like it. * = or less according to your sense of game balance.
Arganis 07-27-06, 03:54 PM	Comparing to animate dead, that spell requires a corpse. I believe the duration is permanent though (IIRC). If you are removing the requirement of the corpse, but limitin the duration to 10 min/level, then it is slightly underpowered compared to AD so far (IMHO). I am still envisioning that some kind of body is required (Vegetable or Inanimate matter). This sounds very much like a Summon Monster spell, and I believe those spells have a duration of 1 min/level. I'd just create a new spell called Enhance Summoned Monster. enhance grants the summoned monster additional abilities/intelligence and a longer duration. The summon line is in rounds/level, so something as powerful as a summoned monster of equal level is out of the question since it will last longer. It seems like the average CR of a summoned monster is approximately Caster Level - 4, with deviations that seem related to special abilities. Size variation (1 category): 1 HD Flight (average): 1 HD Increased Damage Die: 1 HD New Damage Type: 2 HD Purchasing special abilities with HD is brilliant. I like the idea a great deal. Purchasing size at the expense of HD seems counterintuitive though... Hmm. I'm close to a first draft. More to follow.
Garrinol 07-27-06, 04:52 PM	Earthen guardian Wizard 4 (conjuration I think? Maybe transmutation) Range: Touch Duration: Instant (see description) Target: Special casting: 1 minute To create an earthen guardian, the wizard must first craft a vaguely representative body from either wood, dirt, stone or some other inanimate material lying around, the creation does not have to be skillful in any way, and can simply be piles of dirt in approximate shapes, although more skilled sculptings create more aesthetically pleasing Earthen Guardians. These craftings usually take between 5 and 10 minutes, depending on the detail. The caster then place a gem worth 100 gp inscribed with magical runes on the creations forehead and casts the spell, once completed the gem is absorbed in to the creature, the magical runes display on its forehead and it comes to life. an earthen guardian is a construct with the following statline 1d10 hit dice (25hp) initiative +0 speed 30 ft AC: 13 (+3 natural) Base attack/grapple: +0/+1 Attacks: slam +2 melee (1d6+1) Damage reduction 5/bludgeoning Str 13 Dex 11 Con - Int - Wis 10 Cha 1 Fort +0 Ref +0 Will +0 Alignment: Always neutral Earthen guardians are mindless but can follow simple orders, they will serve the caster until either he is destroyed or they are, if either happens they crumble back in to their components and the gem is lost, you may control up to twice your hit dice in earthen guardians.