Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tombowings 11-26-06, 04:51 PM	Hello all, I have a problem with the EX system in D&D. I just can't understand why the only was to gain spells, skills, non-combat feats, non-combat class abilities, est. is through combat. Shouldn’t using skills gain you skill points? And shouldn't using/learning/studying spell make a person’s spell casting ability increase (sorcerers and bards as well as wizards). I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas about how to solve this problem.
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 11-26-06, 05:07 PM	Options: 1. Don't play D&D. It's a simplified system based on getting better by killing things, and the class system means that all elements of a character advance as he or she gains levels (for example, gaining levels in Expert will add to your skills, but will also add hit dice, saves etc., though at a low rate). 2. Award quest XP, not fight XP. Killing the Dragon King of Khaldai nets you n XP, because you are on a quest to kill the Dragon King of Khaldai. Killing, knocking out, bribing, talking down or circumventing obstacles on the path to kill the Dragon King of Khaldai gain you x XP. Going off on a sidetrack and fighting with some elves, whilst entertaining, gets you no XP, because it does not advance your quest. 3. Advancment through training, study and everyday experience. Assume that each day/week/month spent gains you n XP. For example, you might say that a week in intense study or training under an estemed master gains you 1/2/5/10 XP, or that a character gains 1/2/5 XP per month/year through everyday encounters. This quickly becomes irrelevant even at fairly low levels, but adds to the background. 4. Assume that characters study. The easiest option. Characters are assumed to augment their adventuring experience by spending an appropriate ammount of their downtime in study or training. The travel-weary characters return home from their quest and spend a month or two attending to other business before X brings a dire warning from Y about Z and they spring into action once more.
tombowings 11-26-06, 05:11 PM	Options: 1. Don't play D&D. It's a simplified system based on getting better by killing things, and the class system means that all elements of a character advance as he or she gains levels (for example, gaining levels in Expert will add to your skills, but will also add hit dice, saves etc., though at a low rate). 2. Award quest XP, not fight XP. Killing the Dragon King of Khaldai nets you n XP, because you are on a quest to kill the Dragon King of Khaldai. Killing, knocking out, bribing, talking down or circumventing obstacles on the path to kill the Dragon King of Khaldai gain you x XP. Going off on a sidetrack and fighting with some elves, whilst entertaining, gets you no XP, because it does not advance your quest. 3. Advancment through training, study and everyday experience. Assume that each day/week/month spent gains you n XP. For example, you might say that a week in intense study or training under an estemed master gains you 1/2/5/10 XP, or that a character gains 1/2/5 XP per month/year through everyday encounters. This quickly becomes irrelevant even at fairly low levels, but adds to the background. 4. Assume that characters study. The easiest option. Characters are assumed to augment their adventuring experience by spending an appropriate ammount of their downtime in study or training. The travel-weary characters return home from their quest and spend a month or two attending to other business before X brings a dire warning from Y about Z and they spring into action once more. The problem is that I have a player that wants to do a non-combat game. And I'm having problems giving out XP. Right now I am thinking about having some skills giving out XP in very very very small amound (something like 1-5xp depending on the check). Then when a problem is overcome, the player will get even more XP for overcoming the "encounter".
skelmar 11-26-06, 05:11 PM	at lower lvls i do think you should reward xp for learning how to play your character, knowing stuff about your character. this discussion comes up alot, i reward people for outstanding roleplay and for completing quests. there are also other ways to reward xp, like dealing with a situation without combat
Tiefling_Warlock 11-26-06, 05:36 PM	My DM awards exp for generally solving problems and moving forward. He gives out exp for traps and some skill uses against others (such as diplomacy to let you pass by). He also gives some quest exp.
tombowings 11-26-06, 05:43 PM	Thanks for everything everyone
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 11-26-06, 06:50 PM	I will say that D&D is generally a poor system for non-combat, but this is your choice. XP is divied out for overcoming a chalenge in the apropriate manner. If an orc comes screaming at you with an axe, the challenge is to take him down before he can kill you. However, different chalenges are overcome in different ways. The challenge presented by the palace guards is overcome by sneaking past them, the traps by either disabling them or surviving their going off. Often this will require non-standard XP awards, but this is part of the duties of the DM.
DarkNick 11-26-06, 07:31 PM	What you could do is scrap the Exp system. Let players advance when you think it is the right time to advance. Give them skill point rewards when you think they should get skill points. Easy eh? I really liked playing without exp. Takes the focus of killing all the time. My players only generally fought stuff when there was a purpose to it...they liked it.
DFoster 11-26-06, 08:15 PM	Technically all you need to do is give a CR to all your non-combat encounters, based on how difficult it will be to accomplish, and award XP the same as you would for a combat or trap if the party manages to get through the enounter.
Millennium 11-26-06, 09:00 PM	Hello all, I have a problem with the EX system in D&D. I just can't understand why the only was to gain spells, skills, non-combat feats, non-combat class abilities, est. is through combat. Good, because that's not the only way to gain XP. XP is gained by overcoming challenges, and while combat is one way to overcome a challenge it's not the only way. It does, however, make for a convenient benchmark: "This challenge would be about as hard as fighting a group of 5 goblins" or something like that. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas about how to solve this problem. Just award XP for noncombat encounters, like the system intends.
Lord_Tirian 11-26-06, 10:07 PM	Just award XP for noncombat encounters, like the system intends. True. For my adventure's, I don't give out combat XP at all, instead I only give XP for completed goals/challenges... and I have some general guidelines for bonus XP: Good RP: 50 XP/level (i.e. well-played character) Superb RP: 100 XP/level (i.e. *very* well-played character... like doing *really* unexpected, but very in-character stuff) Doing a campaign-session log: 10 XP/level (essentially writing a diary from the character's point of view...) Usually, I set the CR of RP challenges equal to the average party ECL, +1 to +2 for very important, very skill-intensive RP (with risk, like getting into severe trouble).
Thomar_of_Uointer 11-26-06, 10:11 PM	Hello all, I have a problem with the EX system in D&D. I just can't understand why the only was to gain spells, skills, non-combat feats, non-combat class abilities, est. is through combat. Shouldn’t using skills gain you skill points? And shouldn't using/learning/studying spell make a person’s spell casting ability increase (sorcerers and bards as well as wizards). I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas about how to solve this problem. Incorrect. Traps also have Challenge Ratings, and thus grant experience. The DMG has other rules for experience, and basically says you should award XP for noncombat to encourage it. I would say that you should assign Challenge Ratings to encounters of any sort, including roleplaying and puzzles. Roleplaying encounters should be statted up with all of the detail that comes in the monster block.
CharlieRock 11-27-06, 08:32 AM	The problem is that I have a player that wants to do a non-combat game. And I'm having problems giving out XP. Right now I am thinking about having some skills giving out XP in very very very small amound (something like 1-5xp depending on the check). Then when a problem is overcome, the player will get even more XP for overcoming the "encounter". Have you checked out pg. 40 of the DMG?
HerbalTea 11-27-06, 09:47 AM	I cant be bothered to read many posts, so I'll just provide something that's probably completely irrelevant: I always give XP for good roleplaying Hope it helped :)
xaqariah 11-27-06, 01:18 PM	The idea with the system of XP that I developed is that encounters have a "flat" xp gain based on comparing the level of the encounter to the PC's. The reason that the XP gain is "flat" is that as everyone gains levels, they are able to do more, and thus give themselves a greater xp gain for higher level encounters. 1) Players keep track of what they do, during the game session. +30xp per "hit" (melee or ranged) (+45xp on a critical) +40xp per spell level cast (successful casting, regardless of actual outcome) +5xp per spell "hit" (melee or ranged touch) (+2xp on a critical) +5xp per skill successfully used (+2xp on critical success) Now, things like "hits", spells cast, and skill use, have to further the game, to count for experience, so the Cleric healing everyone up at the end of a battle, or the end of the day does not gain xp, because there is no threat, or penalty for failure. 2) Encounters have a flat xp award. CR -3 25xp CR -2 34xp CR -1 50xp CR +0 75xp CR +1 100xp CR +2 150xp CR +3 200xp CR +4 300xp (This is the Level 10 xp by encounters row, divided by 10, with "75" as the base xp value) Thus a group of 4, 4th Level characters, fighting a CR 4 encounter gains 75xp over what they gained for themselves by acting in the encounter (fighting, using skills, casting spells...) If you have a non-standard sized group, calculate the party's total CR, as if figuring THEM as an encounter, and subtract "4" from the CR's in the list above. (4, 4th level characters, would be CR 8) 3) Extra bonuses are handed out for moving the plot forward. I also give 100xp as a bonus to completing Goals (I'm pretty generous with what is a "Goal", and try to find a couple per game session) and 50 "Bonus" xp individually if a PC does something exceptional. 4) End of the session awards. At the end of the Game Session, I review each player's overall attitude (along with my own), and add 1 to 5 points to each of the three catagories: (3 being average) Role Playing Fun Factor Team Play summing the total from these three categories, I multiply by 20xp, and give the extra bonus to the player. ---------- Granted, a dungeon-crawl will gain more xp, but this is not typical in my games. (more of an added "boost" here or there...) NPCs, within the group (such as cohorts) gain full xp awards for their actions (part 1), but only gain half of the xp from the end of the game session (parts 2-4). This assures that the PCs will remain the heros, without letting them fall behind completely. **Notice** You have to be careful, as characters who can do more, will get more xp (along with players who are more active in looking for things to do, than just wait for the next fight.) This can lead to some characters running away with xp awards, and thus levels. You have to build game sessions and encounters, where everyone has a chance to participate, or give the skill-heavy characters a chance to use their skills. Unbalanced Ability scores, from one player to another can tilt the scales, too, so I tend to like the point-buy system. (Personally, after 9 levels, my group is still within 2000 xp of eachother, which we find farely agreeable.) Well, that's pretty much it. Let me know what you think.