Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Smaul 03-08-05, 05:42 PM	I looked through the whole forum yesterday with no luck so I wanted to ask. I hate to kill a character off but I also dont want them just to do anything without penalty. I am wondering if anyone else does anything different? Maybe like a Never winter nights type XP penelty or Gold loss or both or any other ideas? Or do you all just killem and let what happens happens? thanks for your input, (new to the boards) Steve
Cindre2000 03-08-05, 06:10 PM	Please elaborate.
twad 03-08-05, 06:20 PM	well.. with raise dead, resurcection and reincarnation you have CON penalty.
Mirikon 03-08-05, 06:21 PM	If you are talking about when the wizard tries to solo against two giants, and gets turned into a gooey mess under a thrown boulder, then kill the guy, but perhaps get someone to spring for a Reincarnate spell. Sometimes getting their asses handed to them on a silver platter is the only way to teach them not to be stupid. If the death came as part of rather well done plan, but the party somehow drew the ill will of the Dice Gods, then you can perhaps do the cliche scene where they have to barter for their life with a denizen of the lower planes. Said denizen sends them back, reset to the beginning of their last level (so a level 2 character who went through this would be at 1000 XP). This way, the player is still punished for the whole dying thing, but they don't feel that they came off too badly. Plus, if you roleplay it out, you can perhaps use this as a plot hook later on. On the mature boards, there was a thread a while ago where a situation that would have been a TPK instead resulted in the players being stripped of all their gear, and sold into slavery.
Otto the Bugbear 03-08-05, 07:22 PM	Just kill 'em off. The larder is getting low anyway. There are plenty of ways for PCs to avoid perm. death if they really try hard. Such as RUNNING AWAY!!! Honestly, when player refuse to use this against overwhelming odds/power, they deserve for their characters to be smashed flat. Cheers Otto :)
Alchemist17 03-08-05, 08:15 PM	You can always have them go up against someone who doesn't want them "dead", merely "defeated". This works especially well with a wizard who has the "Subdual Substitution" metamagic feat - once they're unconcious you can always coup-de-gras them if need be, but you're also free to strip them of everything of value, tie them up, and perhaps investigate WHY they're coming after you? Poisons can also work well here (especially at lower levels), just keep after them with your poisoned bolts until their strength drops to 0 and they collapse, helpless. That said, sometimes players will just be exceptionally stupid, and their characters "need killun". It's one thing for the high-level wizard who's been stalked carefully by the party for a while to want to know why they are coming after him in particular, but another thing entirely to think that the Ancient Red Dragon will see the charging Level 1 Paladin as anything more than a quick snack :ghosted: -Alchemist
weasel fierce 03-08-05, 09:01 PM	Death is a fundamental aspect of adventuring. If the players realize that "nothing really bad happens" then the game will be destroyed in most cases. The risk of consequence is a must to maintain a tense and exciting game. That being said, good stories have plenty of characters become captured, sent to weird dimensions or kept around for eating.
Mirikon 03-08-05, 09:09 PM	Death is a fundamental aspect of adventuring. If the players realize that "nothing really bad happens" then the game will be destroyed in most cases. The risk of consequence is a must to maintain a tense and exciting game. That being said, good stories have plenty of characters become captured, sent to weird dimensions or kept around for eating. Mmm. Adventurers. Seriously though. You know how creeped out the party will be when the wake up, hanging from the ceiling, and then someone comes in and says, "Oh good, you're awake. We were afraid we would have to start cooking you before you woke up."
Vharuck 03-08-05, 09:40 PM	Death is discouraged by your players, not by you or other DMs. You been listening to your players too much. Listen to us. You are one of us. One of us, one of us, one of us... Kill! Kill the foolhardy! Nothing teaches a player like giving them time to think while they roll up a whole new character. Just think of it like D&D's time out corner.
Sildatorak 03-08-05, 09:42 PM	Of the people who started in my current campaign, only 2 have yet to die. Considering that all of those people are still playing their original characters, I think that shows how impermanent death can be in D&D. None of them are looking forward to another death, though, since the experience loss is a nasty penalty that gets nastier as character levels climb. I have a few house rules and campaign style tips about death, though. I don't have people bleed on the first turn they are dying. This rule was implemented on the fly when a blow reduced the rogue to -9 and he was the next guy in the order (first person to go down in the campaign). I figure that everyone should get a chance to stabilize the guy before you just go and kill him. I've also evened out the experience loss for coming back from the dead (this applies to energy drain, too). Instead of coming back at a set number of xp that is one level lower, you lose (ecl-1)*1000 xp. This way you basically lose 1 level instead of losing anywhere from 1/2 to 1.5 levels. Revival can cost quite a lot, especially when you consider the price of material components for the spells. Reincarnate is the cheapest at 1000 gp plus the cost of a caster. However, if you have a priest or druid that knows a trustworthy group of promising young adventurers, they could make worse investments than raising one of their number at reduced cost in exchange for a debt to be payed later.
DeWayne 03-08-05, 09:56 PM	If the players get stupid, they deserve to have their characters die. However, if for whatever reason you don't want to kill them, I've found that having the bad guys beat them into negative hitpoints, stabalize them, take ALL their stuff, and sell them into slavery works, too. Remember, even if they eventually escape, get freed, or even have an ally buy them when they first go on the auction block, their stuff is GONE! Sometimes that makes more of an impact than telling them to roll up a new PC. It also has the advantage that slaves are worth money so it makes perfect sense that the bad guys would want to keep them alive to sell. This way it doesn't look like you're bending the rules or nerfing the encounter to save them.
angryman 03-08-05, 10:06 PM	Capture, humiliation, torture, theft, kidnapping (of others) and blackmail are all viable methods to smack PCs. Be careful, though. DMs only have as much power as the PCs let them have. Remember the PCs can just say, "Meh, you suck, I'm leaving."
Rellik Laires 03-08-05, 10:24 PM	well i didn't look through all the replys so i dun kno if this has been said yet but. if its totally lack of nonsense cause of death kill em much liek the wizard running into giants and then *Splat* but if you really don't want to kill a character you can have a bone break or a cut accross the eye dropping spot in half or something along the lines to negatives. maybe a visable scar from a slashing weaopon or visable bumb from a club or something would apply a negative 2 to cha until healed naturally (i would say a d12 plus 2 days) or maybe they fall passed negative 10 and you really don't want them to die you can say they go into coma for a week or 2 then when they come out they don't remember anything something along the lines of amniesia but not permanant. use real world affects that arn't seen in the dnd world when was the last time you 8th level fighter took 30 damage in a single hit then later fell unconsious then when he woke up he was back in tip top shape you never see them with a roken bone or anything unless if they come into games with scars.
friedmad 03-08-05, 10:44 PM	i had the same problem....a bard PC attacked a vampire when he KNEW he would get the snot kicked out of him...he got knocked unconscious....had a couple levels drained....got cured to positive HP and went right back to attacking the vampire...what could i do? so...i kicked the snot out of him and the only cleric around could only rasie dead....minus one level...
weasel fierce 03-08-05, 10:46 PM	Im a mean old bastard, but I distinguish between two things. Fights I force untothe players (as you enter the cave, an umber hulk charge you) and fights that they start (as you peek into the cave, you can see an umber hulk eating a glazed goblin "CHARGE") If I press the fight, I tend to cut slack. If they pick a fight they dont need to have, the dice fall as they may.
Elrathh 03-08-05, 10:51 PM	It sounds as if you want to punish said character for doing something. Maybe they broke some important law in the kingdom, or such. If so, then here are some tips, based off personal experience: 1). Send a bounty hunter after him, have the bounty hunter attack at night and knock him out. Then, have him go to a judge. Happened to a friend of mine. 2). Change alignment if applicable. However, only do this if it has happened alot. Also, if this is a Druid/Cleric/Paladin, maybe the higher power ignores the player for a few days, for punishment, denying spells/abilities. 3). Good old sheriff round-up, in mid-day.
friedmad 03-08-05, 10:52 PM	....THEN this same bard meets a clay golem....gets plastered....the sorcerer goes down....the bard has 3 hp left...what does he do? What else! He ATTACKS! the clay golem hits with both slams, and BAM! 52hp damage and he dies AGAIN! THEN....(I swear this guy never learns his lesson...) they come upon a drow cleric, a drow wizard and 2 drow fighters...all theywant to do is talk to hte party, but does the bard listen? nooooooooooooooooooo...he ATTACKS...they hand him his a$$, they strip him of most of his gear when he is unconscious but leave him alive.... I think the only thing left to do to this guy is either have him possessed, disintegrated, and/or imprisoned, or vivisectioned....
maximusprime 03-09-05, 04:08 AM	I have a saying at my table: "I'm not going to kill you, but if you die its your own fault" My last campaign came to an end after more thna a clander year of fairly regular play. it was a home brew world with all sorts of stuff I had spent hours on, with sub-plots, and all sorts of cool stuff. They metagamed and figured out that an npc was a dragon, and picked a fight... One year of hard work shot to the pooper... Who did that suck for more, me or them? PCs die, its just the way it goes...but if you want to eb ncie to those ungrateful xp chasing goons you... I mean, if you want to let your pcs off easy dot he following: Have the tar kicked out of them, then have them left for dead with nothing, and like 1 hp a piece. To be real cold blooded, do that to half of them, and let the other guys bust out the old 4d6, and give them no wealth option. And knowing pcs, they'll want round two pretty bad, and so will you... The only thing is, they git served with all their stuff, so they have to try and repower up, and you instantly have all sorts of new stuff to work with... Wow, I'm totally going to do that next time my Pcs let their modifiers go to their heads :D
Aricandor 03-09-05, 06:00 AM	I'm an evil DM. Players that suffer bad rolls die. Stupidity yields death. Battles may always result in Game Over. I am fairly fond of the idea to capture PC's though. No less than three times over the last five months have I knocked out and imprisoned the players. I also like CDG-SA assassins. CDG + SA + Shocking Grasp = major pain. My opinion: Slay them! Slay them all in the name of DM'ing! Show no mercy, for mercy is a weakness, and weakness will result in players sneaking in munchkin characters in the game! Keep in mind: We don't kill PC's. The players accomplish that part just fine by themselves. To quote someone's sig; "A good DM merely sets the stage. The players will always manage to get themselves killed." :)
Darth Smaul 03-09-05, 10:13 AM	Ok so what Im getting here is Im too nice as a DM? :D I guess if they get into a fight and the dice get them over time I dont have a problem with that. what usually ruins it for players or even me for that matter is when I come across a save vs whatever. (we are playing basic again, bringing back fun from our youth) and they fail one die roll and BLAM they are gone or dead or whatever. I live to play by the rules but at the same time I dont like killing players off every session. (although it sounds like Im a minority there) :) I appreciate all your insights and hope to get more but thanks all for your input. steve
SammasterT 03-09-05, 10:51 AM	I"ve always found that imminent death is a good excuse to horribly maim a pc, be it with dastardly burn scars, a missing hand, destoyed manhood, punctured eye-ball, shattered knee-cap. Who says there aren't fates worse than death? I would add that a killing blow can also be used, in lieu of death, to shatter swords/weapons or destroy various magic items.
theodorik 03-09-05, 07:13 PM	My players tend to get cocky around 1/2 way into a campaign, mostly because they are smart and tend not to put themselves in danger of dying. When the players get cocky and feel invincible, the answer is not to kill them, but to give them a punishment worse than death. The key is not to make it obvious why the event happens to the character, try to hide the intention so that the cplayer doesn't feel 'cheated' or 'picked on'. For instance, when my players got really cocky they sold their friend into slavery and then intended to break him out. I couldn't just KILL them for doing something this stupid (considering the flow of the campaign) so I magically aged the character who volunteered for it. Sure, he was alive, but he was old and losing teeth. He wanted revenge against that wizard for the rest of his career. Remove curse is easier to find than Raise Dead, use it. In the current campaign, one player got particularly cocky and decided to assassinate a rival gang leader inside his own dugneon/lair. They went through traps, killed guards, snuck into ventilation systems (also trapped) and came out with one of their own kidnapped. Sure they accomplished the mission, but they paid dearly, and the campaign didn't. Do you think it was hard to 'hook' them for the next adventure? I didn't ask, they told me, "we're going to save her!" If the player does something REALLY stupid, like a wizard fighting a giant with his bare hands, you CAN kill them, if that is what the player wants, but more often than not, this is a sign of other problems. Players do strange things with their characters when they are too afraid to say something. Imagine an adventure gone horribly wrong, you have no idea what you are supposed to be doing, and the DM isn't giving any help. I'd 'threaten' the DM with killing my character if I were immature. If i were more mature, i'd speak to the DM quietly and voice my concerns and ask for advice to get the game back on track. Remember, there are worse things than death, like: 1. a thief being allergic to gold (magically of course) 2. a bard's tongue being cut out. 3. a wizards's hand being chopped off (hope you have Still Spell) 4. a fighter's sword being stolen. 5. a cleric's holy symbol desecrated. 6. an important contact or friend being killed or captured (like an NPC cleric or weaponmaster) 7. a paladin's honor stolen from him, his reputation ruined (rightfully or no) 8. the player's pack mule dies and they have to leave 1/2 their loot behind and be heavly encumbered to carry the rest back to town. There's plenty of options that won't derail the campaign, and can often lead it to new adventures or introduce new evil villians or friendly contacts. Your players will learn to look at the bright side of every bad situation.
Carrie91812 03-09-05, 07:31 PM	My DM in one of my campaigns kind of gave us a safety net in that our group cleric got five favors from the local church he belonged to that could be used a resurections, heals, etc etc... Of course our cleric has wasted 2 of them on heals because he didn't want to "waste his spells" but that is a whole other storry :mad: ...
nosoupforyou 03-09-05, 07:44 PM	Turn him/her into a Kender. Then *you* don't have to kill them, the orc barbarian gets to kill him when he steals the barabarian's tribal totem. - Soup
Teshub 03-09-05, 09:21 PM	I like to capture my PC's rather then kill them off. Kind of like the typical Hollywood scenario. Main character is captured, forced to pit fight, labor in the mines, etc. It's then up to the PC to find a means of escape or cope with the story of their captivity.
arrianna 03-10-05, 12:09 PM	Kill! Kill the foolhardy! Nothing teaches a player like giving them time to think while they roll up a whole new character. Just think of it like D&D's time out corner. I enjoy that attitude. I am a middle school teacher by trade, and my 30 something (age not number) players know it. when they do something stupid in the game, they have a consequence, just like my students in class. They have come to refer to it as "her teacher voice" and they know it usually means someone is about to die. I have been running my campaign with the same players for three years. Only one player has the same PC he started with .....muhaha..... :evillaugh