am i a dictator dm? [Archive] - Wizards Community

am i a dictator dm? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jogan
01-24-04, 08:16 AM here's the thing:

before campaign told all players - "hey, i'd appreciate it if you could all make just good aligned characters".

during the campaign - one player
a) stabs a bartender to death because he felt he'd been jipped out of some money (5 gold pieces!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
b) viscously tortures a prisoner of war for with holding information

now, to counteract this, i throw in a magic bow i've created which i know the character wants. he picks it up, and the intelligent magic bow says to him
"if you're good i'll give you some of my powers"
"if you're not i'll give you none of my powers"
"if you try to throw me away you will die".

have i been too harsh?
DM Zoc
01-24-04, 08:27 AM That last line is a bit harsh. Make it a cursed bow, such that it cannot be gotten rid of without the appropriate spell; it would actually be less wrong in this case.

Though, you should be able to tell them that they are good; many DM's require good characters. Penalize them accordingly (no EXP) for playing outside of alignment.
Salla
01-24-04, 09:45 AM Not dictatorial, but you're probably grabbing them by the nose a bit too fiercely. Having the bow, as an NPC, be the team's conscience is a bit ... I can't think of the word. Railroady?

If your characters are still in the same town where they knifed the barkeep, well, sic the city guard on 'em. Their actions have consequences, and getting thrown in jail (if not outright hanged) qualifies.

Heck, if you've got the Book of Exalted Deeds, ship down an Aleax. They've definitely earned it.
Derren S.
01-24-04, 10:31 AM Agree with Salla (except for the Aleax)

Don't resort to such magical items to force them to be good.

If they murder people, let bounty hunters hunt them, put them on trial an get them executed if they can't get out on their own.
Or leave the players out of the plot.

*Questigver casts discern alignment*
"Mmh, yes I think I can trust you can you do me a favor? No, not you, please leave us we have some important business to discuss"
And then hand him new character sheets while reminding him to make a good character.
p0cky
01-24-04, 11:10 AM Originally posted by jogan

"if you try to throw me away you will die".

Let me just change a few letters...
Originally edited by Ore

"if you try to throw me away you will dye".

There you go. If they throw it away, the PC will be permently dyed a single colour (armour and skin) that make make people stare at him (ie. Neon Pink). Watch them try to steal then.
And if he manages to succed in the steal, then the police report is easy enough.
"He was hot pink!"
:angel:

(NOTE: Unless you pronounce die and dye differently (and I have never head anyone do that) it should be easy enough to change. I mean, it was a table top game right? And all in the spoken word? There you go!)
(And yes, this is a serious solution. Oh, and you seem to be pulling them around a bit. Though, I really do not think that they want to be good aligened characters. Though they aggreed to it as they joined the camapin. Just take the proper in game punishment. *cough*:behold: *cough*.)

EDIT: And yes, I realize the bow has bad grammar. For Cthulhu's sake, he is made of wood!
VirgilCaine
01-24-04, 11:34 AM p0cky has the right idea. "Dye" not "die", and no, you aren't being too strict on your players.
Northen_Spur
01-24-04, 11:47 AM Originally posted by p0cky
Let me just change a few letters...

There you go. If they throw it away, the PC will be permently dyed a single colour (armour and skin) that make make people stare at him (ie. Neon Pink). Watch them try to steal then.
And if he manages to succed in the steal, then the police report is easy enough.
"He was hot pink!"
:angel:

(NOTE: Unless you pronounce die and dye differently (and I have never head anyone do that) it should be easy enough to change. I mean, it was a table top game right? And all in the spoken word? There you go!)
(And yes, this is a serious solution. Oh, and you seem to be pulling them around a bit. Though, I really do not think that they want to be good aligened characters. Though they aggreed to it as they joined the camapin. Just take the proper in game punishment. *cough*:behold: *cough*.)

EDIT: And yes, I realize the bow has bad grammar. For Cthulhu's sake, he is made of wood!

*L* good idea, but all neon pink might be a little too much.

Make the player's hands blood red (even if he's wearing gloves or gaunthlets) to indicate the player has blood on his hands.

So he will constantly look like someone who just murdered someone with his hands. Only after he's gone throught Justice or has made suficient restitution will his hands regain normal colour.
Vaalingrade Ashland
01-24-04, 03:25 PM That's pretty railroady to me. At the very least it calls for an ego check.

Plus, you left a gaping hole (hope the players are listening) they can still sell or begift the bow with no ill effects. Since the bow is already 'good' it wouldn't kill them for being smarter than it is.
p0cky
01-24-04, 06:51 PM Originally posted by Vaalingrade Ashland
That's pretty railroady to me. At the very least it calls for an ego check.

Plus, you left a gaping hole (hope the players are listening) they can still sell or begift the bow with no ill effects. Since the bow is already 'good' it wouldn't kill them for being smarter than it is.

I do not think the bow would take too kindly to being sold.
If anything, you should make it talk like the sword from BG2...a HUGE ego.
Ahnehnois
01-24-04, 07:01 PM Well, a good item is a legitimate move, but "you die if you're not good" is forcing the players into an alignment. If you want the players to be good-aligned (an opinion you seem to hold), rewarding good behavior is far more effective than punishing uncooperative players. This works throughout life: punishment is relatively ineffective and should be used in extreme situations only.

Coincidentially, how did the player get away with murder? While torturing a POW is morally ambiguous and likely not illegal, shouldn't the proper authorities be gunning for someone who killed an innocent bartender?
LoricDAHPaladin
01-24-04, 09:17 PM I am thinking the player should probably not be included in campaigns that are supposed to be good. Sounds like the player has power trips and excersizes a frustrated will on your NPCs.

Or, your player does not take the game seriously. Either way, your player is probably not worth the trouble.

I do not condone railroading, however. The last portion was railroading. Leave out the last statement, and what you did was fine. You could also engineer the PCs death.
Vaalingrade Ashland
01-24-04, 10:41 PM Do not engineer a PCs death. Ever
Auber Furyblade
01-24-04, 10:49 PM Or, and this may be a bit heavy handed, just let them know that if their character moves into an evil alignment it becomes an NPC.

Then you warn them before they take an evil action that it's evil. Give them a couple of warns before you make them neutral and a couple more before they become evil. (Always do it at the end of a session so that a discussion can follow and they can try to explain their actions, without wasting the other players time.)
As soon as the character becomes evil you take the character and ask them to roll up a new one.

And, I agree that the bow was a little over the top.

Final note, never go out of your way to kill a PC. It's not right and it's not fair.
meabolex
01-24-04, 11:05 PM The item idea is fine, except the end result of your item won't be what you intend. They'll resent YOU for the item, and therefore cause more and more tension in the game.

A cursed intelligent item is basically fine. The PC won't necessarily know the item's intent. The PC could find out through divination or a high bardic knowledge roll, and respect those elements of the game. Make the item usually a very nice item. However, an annoying curse (like the -2 cursed sword) would be activated on a character that commits an evil action for a certain amount of time. They'll think -- WOW! I get rewarded for evil behavior. Then they act evil again. . .

At the beginning of the game, you told the players that it would be a good-oriented campaign. At least you let the PCs know ahead of time what was coming. If you want to hold true to that statement, simply build adventures where good actions are usually more rewarded and evil actions are usually less rewarded.

That gives the PCs a choice: do the good thing, get more stuff/power; do the evil thing, lose stuff/become less powerful.

DON'T. however, say to your PCs, "if you did it this way, you would would have gotten more stuff." Just let them find out over time that good actions pay off in your world. You've already told them this anyway.
Vaalingrade Ashland
01-24-04, 11:32 PM Originally posted by Auber Furyblade
Or, and this may be a bit heavy handed, just let them know that if their character moves into an evil alignment it becomes an NPC.

This is serious bad medicine. If you want resentment, this one breeds it like a petri dish.
Mitchell
01-25-04, 01:56 AM It is not too much to ask that all players be good. If the players stray, trying to find a way to get them back is a bit more difficult. If only one player is the problem, maybe you could recruit them as a helper, letting them run monsters in combat.

Another option, though I'm sure that others will protest, is to give every magic weapon that has a +2 or higher bonus the holy ability. This would penalize any evil character using any magical weapon of any power. If you want to further increase the problem, have alignment based weapons deal damage to an improperly aligned wielder, say 1d6/round.
Kaya Kenobi
01-25-04, 02:32 AM Personally, it's your own problem. And if you can't deal with evil PCs, then you're stuck. It's still possible for an evil PC to kill off a BBEG, if the price is right. It's also more fun to be evil than good. Good is always reacting, and evil is the one creating all sorts of havoc. That's just how it is. It may be your world, but if the players want to play evil, by all means let them! It can be really fun, especially since you're the one to make the good guys stop bad guys... While the philosophy here works for NE and LE, I do not like CE...
Escef
01-25-04, 04:03 AM I see nothing wrong with the bow as is. Bow didn't say it would kill them. Just said they'd die. So what? PCs are mortal, of course they're going to die.

That aside, you have players that want to behaive like psychotic idiots. Next time they do that just hand him your DMG and DM Screen and ask if he'd like to DM. If he says no, then tell him the next time he pulls a stunt like that he'll have to because you won't.
PaladinSix
01-25-04, 04:15 AM am i a dictator dm?

Yes. Nicely done. That's part of the job, and you seem to have adjusted to it well. (For those who are about to flame me, note that I said "part of the job," not the whole job.)

Next time they do that just hand him your DMG and DM Screen and ask if he'd like to DM. If he says no, then tell him the next time he pulls a stunt like that he'll have to because you won't.

This works wonders. Nothing like a reality check to point out to the PCs how good they got it. Seriously, if you need to, try it. Even go so far as to play in one of their games. Let's them see how hard it is from your side of the table, and you can just have fun for awhile, instead of doing all the work.
der_gogo
01-25-04, 02:22 PM Just let the city guards arrest the guy and get him hanged for killing a citicen. If the heroes are too powerful for the city guard, use a powerful paladin or hired wizard...
Gnarl
01-28-04, 11:59 AM This sounds awful...
If your player doesn't want to play a good guy, invite him to join another DM's group.
CrippleMrOnion
01-28-04, 12:08 PM It's true. I'm mean. That being said, I agree with Vaal somewhat here... never TRY to kill your PCs. ALWAYS give them some out that they can deal with, even if it's jail time (and thus either creating another player or RPing being in jail, which would probably be very boring). Then, of course, you can bring back that PC as an NPC enemy later who seeks revenge on the party who turned their back on him.
With this particular player, I'd suggest going with your strategy. Like Vaal said, again, if the players see the loophole and sell or just store the bow, don't penalize them. Also, like meabolex said, don't make it so obvious that good=more treasure and power. Let them learn on their own. That's where experience comes from, after all.

In the end, though, I honestly like the die/dye suggestion. What your players don't know can hurt them, but, if it helps the overall game setting and campaign, more power to ya.
The Fury
01-28-04, 12:16 PM Tell him that you are DMing a good campaign and unless he wants his character to be an NPC he better goody up.

If you insist on keeping the game rolling, ask the other players what they think. If it's cutting in on their fun to have an evil PC in a good party then do something about it. If they don't care, don't worry.
Kaya Kenobi
01-28-04, 02:08 PM I have once played a lawful evil PC in a party full of good PCs, and the only times things got hairy was that my character was extremely cold-hearted but honorbound to the party. He had evil thoughts, evil intentions, but the thing was that he would never harm a child. Stealing? Sure.. Murder? Go for it. But just killing for the sake of killing was just a bit too much.
Yipwyg the Mighty
01-28-04, 03:47 PM Originally posted by Escef
That aside, you have players that want to behaive like psychotic idiots. Next time they do that just hand him your DMG and DM Screen and ask if he'd like to DM. If he says no, then tell him the next time he pulls a stunt like that he'll have to because you won't.

That's not a bad strategy. With one of my players, one who managed to destroy my campaign I had, in fact, wanted to DM. He raved about the adventure he'd built for days. When we came to the table, however, the other players and I started being complete idiots. "I make a will save to avoid humping the pillar!" "I try to swim up the waterfall!" "I shoot a magic missle at the elf!" The DM became so upset that he just left the table (and my house). He DMs regularily now (he isn't great, but whatever) but I think he may have learned his lesson.
Millennium
01-28-04, 04:21 PM The bow was just a bit heavy-handed. But if this guy wants to be evil, then perhaps the best way to go about dealing with him would be to ensure that he suffers the consequences. Sic the town watch on him. Put bounties on his capture (preferably alive), and send parties of adventurers after him, seeking the bounty.

The big draw of playing evil is that a lot of people think it's fun. Make it realistic enough to not be fun anymore, and you'll usually find that the problem gets solved in relatively short order.
Vaalingrade Ashland
01-28-04, 04:39 PM So... your proposal is to make the game less fun?

:rolleyes:
Finarin Panjoro
01-28-04, 04:47 PM There is nothing wrong with telling your PCs that you are running a good/heroic campaign and if they want to play an evil character they should play in another game.

In fact the PHB actually says in its opening pages that D&D is intended to be played with good and nuetral characters. So you can tell your players that you're operating on that premise as well.

That being said the bow thing is a railroading technique that will probably greatly annoy your players. This is a problem better solved by talking to them out of game and making appropriate adjustments. If evil PCs are not acceptable to you as the DM you may have to get rid of your evil players.

You can also solve it in game by having the PC constantly hunted by bounty hunters paid by the bartender's estranged noble brother who is incensed that someone killed a member of his family (even one he didn't like). Make the encounters fair, but make them effective and if he's caught have him killed in game. This will also put pressure on the other PCs if they are getting harassed/attacked for associating with a hunted murderer.

Along these same lines you can encourage your other players to stop the evil PCs when they get out of line. Where was the good cleric when your player knifed the bartender? Why didn't the good fighter or paladin beat the crap out of him and cart him off to the local magistrate? A good PC is perfectly within his rights to stop another PC from taking an evil action, especially if you've got a paladin present.

If a good cleric let the murder happen have an elder of his church ask him why he allowed it and punish him for allowing the other PCs evil actions (minor punishment only). Have the good fighter suffer from guilt induced nightmares for allowing the murder (this could even cause the fighter to be fatigued for a few days). But by the same token, don't compel them to act against the PC (the nightmares should fade, the church penance should be minor), but this will put the idea into the other PCs heads that they don't have to just let the evil PC do whatever they want.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jogan 01-24-04, 08:16 AM	here's the thing: before campaign told all players - "hey, i'd appreciate it if you could all make just good aligned characters". during the campaign - one player a) stabs a bartender to death because he felt he'd been jipped out of some money (5 gold pieces!!!!!!!!!!!!!) b) viscously tortures a prisoner of war for with holding information now, to counteract this, i throw in a magic bow i've created which i know the character wants. he picks it up, and the intelligent magic bow says to him "if you're good i'll give you some of my powers" "if you're not i'll give you none of my powers" "if you try to throw me away you will die". have i been too harsh?
DM Zoc 01-24-04, 08:27 AM	That last line is a bit harsh. Make it a cursed bow, such that it cannot be gotten rid of without the appropriate spell; it would actually be less wrong in this case. Though, you should be able to tell them that they are good; many DM's require good characters. Penalize them accordingly (no EXP) for playing outside of alignment.
Salla 01-24-04, 09:45 AM	Not dictatorial, but you're probably grabbing them by the nose a bit too fiercely. Having the bow, as an NPC, be the team's conscience is a bit ... I can't think of the word. Railroady? If your characters are still in the same town where they knifed the barkeep, well, sic the city guard on 'em. Their actions have consequences, and getting thrown in jail (if not outright hanged) qualifies. Heck, if you've got the Book of Exalted Deeds, ship down an Aleax. They've definitely earned it.
Derren S. 01-24-04, 10:31 AM	Agree with Salla (except for the Aleax) Don't resort to such magical items to force them to be good. If they murder people, let bounty hunters hunt them, put them on trial an get them executed if they can't get out on their own. Or leave the players out of the plot. Questigver casts discern alignment "Mmh, yes I think I can trust you can you do me a favor? No, not you, please leave us we have some important business to discuss" And then hand him new character sheets while reminding him to make a good character.
p0cky 01-24-04, 11:10 AM	Originally posted by jogan "if you try to throw me away you will die". Let me just change a few letters... Originally edited by Ore "if you try to throw me away you will dye". There you go. If they throw it away, the PC will be permently dyed a single colour (armour and skin) that make make people stare at him (ie. Neon Pink). Watch them try to steal then. And if he manages to succed in the steal, then the police report is easy enough. "He was hot pink!" :angel: (NOTE: Unless you pronounce die and dye differently (and I have never head anyone do that) it should be easy enough to change. I mean, it was a table top game right? And all in the spoken word? There you go!) (And yes, this is a serious solution. Oh, and you seem to be pulling them around a bit. Though, I really do not think that they want to be good aligened characters. Though they aggreed to it as they joined the camapin. Just take the proper in game punishment. cough:behold: cough.) EDIT: And yes, I realize the bow has bad grammar. For Cthulhu's sake, he is made of wood!
VirgilCaine 01-24-04, 11:34 AM	p0cky has the right idea. "Dye" not "die", and no, you aren't being too strict on your players.
Northen_Spur 01-24-04, 11:47 AM	Originally posted by p0cky Let me just change a few letters... There you go. If they throw it away, the PC will be permently dyed a single colour (armour and skin) that make make people stare at him (ie. Neon Pink). Watch them try to steal then. And if he manages to succed in the steal, then the police report is easy enough. "He was hot pink!" :angel: (NOTE: Unless you pronounce die and dye differently (and I have never head anyone do that) it should be easy enough to change. I mean, it was a table top game right? And all in the spoken word? There you go!) (And yes, this is a serious solution. Oh, and you seem to be pulling them around a bit. Though, I really do not think that they want to be good aligened characters. Though they aggreed to it as they joined the camapin. Just take the proper in game punishment. cough:behold: cough.) EDIT: And yes, I realize the bow has bad grammar. For Cthulhu's sake, he is made of wood! L good idea, but all neon pink might be a little too much. Make the player's hands blood red (even if he's wearing gloves or gaunthlets) to indicate the player has blood on his hands. So he will constantly look like someone who just murdered someone with his hands. Only after he's gone throught Justice or has made suficient restitution will his hands regain normal colour.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-24-04, 03:25 PM	That's pretty railroady to me. At the very least it calls for an ego check. Plus, you left a gaping hole (hope the players are listening) they can still sell or begift the bow with no ill effects. Since the bow is already 'good' it wouldn't kill them for being smarter than it is.
p0cky 01-24-04, 06:51 PM	Originally posted by Vaalingrade Ashland That's pretty railroady to me. At the very least it calls for an ego check. Plus, you left a gaping hole (hope the players are listening) they can still sell or begift the bow with no ill effects. Since the bow is already 'good' it wouldn't kill them for being smarter than it is. I do not think the bow would take too kindly to being sold. If anything, you should make it talk like the sword from BG2...a HUGE ego.
Ahnehnois 01-24-04, 07:01 PM	Well, a good item is a legitimate move, but "you die if you're not good" is forcing the players into an alignment. If you want the players to be good-aligned (an opinion you seem to hold), rewarding good behavior is far more effective than punishing uncooperative players. This works throughout life: punishment is relatively ineffective and should be used in extreme situations only. Coincidentially, how did the player get away with murder? While torturing a POW is morally ambiguous and likely not illegal, shouldn't the proper authorities be gunning for someone who killed an innocent bartender?
LoricDAHPaladin 01-24-04, 09:17 PM	I am thinking the player should probably not be included in campaigns that are supposed to be good. Sounds like the player has power trips and excersizes a frustrated will on your NPCs. Or, your player does not take the game seriously. Either way, your player is probably not worth the trouble. I do not condone railroading, however. The last portion was railroading. Leave out the last statement, and what you did was fine. You could also engineer the PCs death.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-24-04, 10:41 PM	Do not engineer a PCs death. Ever
Auber Furyblade 01-24-04, 10:49 PM	Or, and this may be a bit heavy handed, just let them know that if their character moves into an evil alignment it becomes an NPC. Then you warn them before they take an evil action that it's evil. Give them a couple of warns before you make them neutral and a couple more before they become evil. (Always do it at the end of a session so that a discussion can follow and they can try to explain their actions, without wasting the other players time.) As soon as the character becomes evil you take the character and ask them to roll up a new one. And, I agree that the bow was a little over the top. Final note, never go out of your way to kill a PC. It's not right and it's not fair.
meabolex 01-24-04, 11:05 PM	The item idea is fine, except the end result of your item won't be what you intend. They'll resent YOU for the item, and therefore cause more and more tension in the game. A cursed intelligent item is basically fine. The PC won't necessarily know the item's intent. The PC could find out through divination or a high bardic knowledge roll, and respect those elements of the game. Make the item usually a very nice item. However, an annoying curse (like the -2 cursed sword) would be activated on a character that commits an evil action for a certain amount of time. They'll think -- WOW! I get rewarded for evil behavior. Then they act evil again. . . At the beginning of the game, you told the players that it would be a good-oriented campaign. At least you let the PCs know ahead of time what was coming. If you want to hold true to that statement, simply build adventures where good actions are usually more rewarded and evil actions are usually less rewarded. That gives the PCs a choice: do the good thing, get more stuff/power; do the evil thing, lose stuff/become less powerful. DON'T. however, say to your PCs, "if you did it this way, you would would have gotten more stuff." Just let them find out over time that good actions pay off in your world. You've already told them this anyway.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-24-04, 11:32 PM	Originally posted by Auber Furyblade Or, and this may be a bit heavy handed, just let them know that if their character moves into an evil alignment it becomes an NPC. This is serious bad medicine. If you want resentment, this one breeds it like a petri dish.
Mitchell 01-25-04, 01:56 AM	It is not too much to ask that all players be good. If the players stray, trying to find a way to get them back is a bit more difficult. If only one player is the problem, maybe you could recruit them as a helper, letting them run monsters in combat. Another option, though I'm sure that others will protest, is to give every magic weapon that has a +2 or higher bonus the holy ability. This would penalize any evil character using any magical weapon of any power. If you want to further increase the problem, have alignment based weapons deal damage to an improperly aligned wielder, say 1d6/round.
Kaya Kenobi 01-25-04, 02:32 AM	Personally, it's your own problem. And if you can't deal with evil PCs, then you're stuck. It's still possible for an evil PC to kill off a BBEG, if the price is right. It's also more fun to be evil than good. Good is always reacting, and evil is the one creating all sorts of havoc. That's just how it is. It may be your world, but if the players want to play evil, by all means let them! It can be really fun, especially since you're the one to make the good guys stop bad guys... While the philosophy here works for NE and LE, I do not like CE...
Escef 01-25-04, 04:03 AM	I see nothing wrong with the bow as is. Bow didn't say it would kill them. Just said they'd die. So what? PCs are mortal, of course they're going to die. That aside, you have players that want to behaive like psychotic idiots. Next time they do that just hand him your DMG and DM Screen and ask if he'd like to DM. If he says no, then tell him the next time he pulls a stunt like that he'll have to because you won't.
PaladinSix 01-25-04, 04:15 AM	am i a dictator dm? Yes. Nicely done. That's part of the job, and you seem to have adjusted to it well. (For those who are about to flame me, note that I said "part of the job," not the whole job.) Next time they do that just hand him your DMG and DM Screen and ask if he'd like to DM. If he says no, then tell him the next time he pulls a stunt like that he'll have to because you won't. This works wonders. Nothing like a reality check to point out to the PCs how good they got it. Seriously, if you need to, try it. Even go so far as to play in one of their games. Let's them see how hard it is from your side of the table, and you can just have fun for awhile, instead of doing all the work.
der_gogo 01-25-04, 02:22 PM	Just let the city guards arrest the guy and get him hanged for killing a citicen. If the heroes are too powerful for the city guard, use a powerful paladin or hired wizard...
Gnarl 01-28-04, 11:59 AM	This sounds awful... If your player doesn't want to play a good guy, invite him to join another DM's group.
CrippleMrOnion 01-28-04, 12:08 PM	It's true. I'm mean. That being said, I agree with Vaal somewhat here... never TRY to kill your PCs. ALWAYS give them some out that they can deal with, even if it's jail time (and thus either creating another player or RPing being in jail, which would probably be very boring). Then, of course, you can bring back that PC as an NPC enemy later who seeks revenge on the party who turned their back on him. With this particular player, I'd suggest going with your strategy. Like Vaal said, again, if the players see the loophole and sell or just store the bow, don't penalize them. Also, like meabolex said, don't make it so obvious that good=more treasure and power. Let them learn on their own. That's where experience comes from, after all. In the end, though, I honestly like the die/dye suggestion. What your players don't know can hurt them, but, if it helps the overall game setting and campaign, more power to ya.
The Fury 01-28-04, 12:16 PM	Tell him that you are DMing a good campaign and unless he wants his character to be an NPC he better goody up. If you insist on keeping the game rolling, ask the other players what they think. If it's cutting in on their fun to have an evil PC in a good party then do something about it. If they don't care, don't worry.
Kaya Kenobi 01-28-04, 02:08 PM	I have once played a lawful evil PC in a party full of good PCs, and the only times things got hairy was that my character was extremely cold-hearted but honorbound to the party. He had evil thoughts, evil intentions, but the thing was that he would never harm a child. Stealing? Sure.. Murder? Go for it. But just killing for the sake of killing was just a bit too much.
Yipwyg the Mighty 01-28-04, 03:47 PM	Originally posted by Escef That aside, you have players that want to behaive like psychotic idiots. Next time they do that just hand him your DMG and DM Screen and ask if he'd like to DM. If he says no, then tell him the next time he pulls a stunt like that he'll have to because you won't. That's not a bad strategy. With one of my players, one who managed to destroy my campaign I had, in fact, wanted to DM. He raved about the adventure he'd built for days. When we came to the table, however, the other players and I started being complete idiots. "I make a will save to avoid humping the pillar!" "I try to swim up the waterfall!" "I shoot a magic missle at the elf!" The DM became so upset that he just left the table (and my house). He DMs regularily now (he isn't great, but whatever) but I think he may have learned his lesson.
Millennium 01-28-04, 04:21 PM	The bow was just a bit heavy-handed. But if this guy wants to be evil, then perhaps the best way to go about dealing with him would be to ensure that he suffers the consequences. Sic the town watch on him. Put bounties on his capture (preferably alive), and send parties of adventurers after him, seeking the bounty. The big draw of playing evil is that a lot of people think it's fun. Make it realistic enough to not be fun anymore, and you'll usually find that the problem gets solved in relatively short order.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-28-04, 04:39 PM	So... your proposal is to make the game less fun? :rolleyes:
Finarin Panjoro 01-28-04, 04:47 PM	There is nothing wrong with telling your PCs that you are running a good/heroic campaign and if they want to play an evil character they should play in another game. In fact the PHB actually says in its opening pages that D&D is intended to be played with good and nuetral characters. So you can tell your players that you're operating on that premise as well. That being said the bow thing is a railroading technique that will probably greatly annoy your players. This is a problem better solved by talking to them out of game and making appropriate adjustments. If evil PCs are not acceptable to you as the DM you may have to get rid of your evil players. You can also solve it in game by having the PC constantly hunted by bounty hunters paid by the bartender's estranged noble brother who is incensed that someone killed a member of his family (even one he didn't like). Make the encounters fair, but make them effective and if he's caught have him killed in game. This will also put pressure on the other PCs if they are getting harassed/attacked for associating with a hunted murderer. Along these same lines you can encourage your other players to stop the evil PCs when they get out of line. Where was the good cleric when your player knifed the bartender? Why didn't the good fighter or paladin beat the crap out of him and cart him off to the local magistrate? A good PC is perfectly within his rights to stop another PC from taking an evil action, especially if you've got a paladin present. If a good cleric let the murder happen have an elder of his church ask him why he allowed it and punish him for allowing the other PCs evil actions (minor punishment only). Have the good fighter suffer from guilt induced nightmares for allowing the murder (this could even cause the fighter to be fatigued for a few days). But by the same token, don't compel them to act against the PC (the nightmares should fade, the church penance should be minor), but this will put the idea into the other PCs heads that they don't have to just let the evil PC do whatever they want.