Am I Alone? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Am I Alone? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LordHumungus
09-21-05, 02:26 PM One of the things introduced in 3rd ed. was the wealth tables for PC's, giving DM's a much needed idea of the scope of things that should be available to a character of a certain level. This has been one of my favorite additions along with the pricing system for all magical items so that it is a breeze to make up higher level PC's and just pick their magic items from their available wealth. I have also noticed that most of the books seem to assume that magic items will be able to be purchased by PC's under most circumstances. Most of the posts I have read on the various D&D boards here that I have read seem to indicate that this is a norm in most groups, sometimes to the extent that players will have all of a characters magical items picked out for their career at level 1, simply buying them with the money that they know they will have at levelX.

I tend to give magic items out as I want/need the PC's to acquire them, or feel that they have earned them and usually will roll a couple up randomly just to put some items that I would not normally pick out into the mix. I nearly never have magical items offered for sale, as it just doesn't suit my style, although, on occasion i allow them xxxxgp value in items as a reward if they are on a quest for someone. I have no issues with other peoples games that allow PC's to purchase items, as it doesn't really affect me at all, but I was curious as to how other DM's here handled giving out magical items and just how alone I am in my style of distributing them.
clarkvalentine
09-21-05, 02:40 PM In the occasional Eberron game I run, the PC are employed by a guild of investigators and spies - there's an artificer employed by the guild (think James Bond's "Q") who keeps the PCs outfitted with gear. Pretty much they want it, they got it, within their level's wealth limit.
JaedenKaal
09-21-05, 02:45 PM In our groups, the PCs will only ever be able to buy magical gear in cities (and huge cities at that) and even then, they won't find necessarily what they want, they'll find what's for sale. Basic stuff, like +1 weapons and armor, low-cost wondrous items, scrolls, potions, etc... Anything else they'll need to get commissioned (for a higher price than market value), find, or make themselves.
Murrdox
09-21-05, 02:48 PM I'm very much against the "Wall Mart of Magic Items" mentality.

In a very large metropolis, I assume that characters will be able to find many minor magical items without problem. +1 longswords, minor wonderous items, level 1-3 scrolls, etc.

However, anything more powerful than that needs to be specificially commissioned by the players, which means the players need to find a wizard willing and able to create the item for them. Depending on the strength of the item in question, gold may simply not be enough of a price to pay. If a wizard is powerful enough to forge a +5 Flaming Vorpal Greatsword, he probably doesn't have much problems in the way of money.

Such a reward would be a quest reward for working for the wizard.

More moderate items, such as a +2 Full Plate could be simply commissioned, and bought at market price. The "commissioned" part of it only comes into play if the characters cannot afford to wait for as long as it will take to make the item. They may have to commission it, and come back later when it is done.

If the players are not in an area that is well civilized, or in an area without many wizards, they simply may not be able to get magical items made for themselves... period.
orionm42
09-21-05, 02:49 PM I'm certain I'm in the extreme minority here, but I rely almost exclusively on random tables for determining treasure. As a result, I hand out quite a few magic items. However, these items are frequently not what the PCs had hoped for or wanted. As such, they often wind up selling treasure items and crafting their own equipment. Like others have stated, my local merchants generally do not carry anything more than +1 weapons or armor. Also, the items carried almost never have special abilities. As such, my PCs must either try to find a use for what I give them as part of a treasure hoard, or they must craft their own equipment.
VirgilCaine
09-21-05, 02:55 PM I don't have Wal-Marts of Magic items, I have "pawn shops" of items.

A Wizard's Guild primarily runs the magic item business IMC. They have offices in every city to supply local spellcasters with components.
As far as magic items go, they will have lots of stuff that's pretty much the same or nothing special--maybe five or six notable items per Guild store. Some oddball items. Some cursed items. Anything above a certain threshold (e.g. intelligent items or useful cursed items or entirely new ones) is sent to a better secured facility.
janusthinker
09-21-05, 03:21 PM Basically, in the campaign world I've played most of my games in, availability of magic items varies very widely depending on where you are.

-In one metropolis, there is, in fact, a near-Wal-Mart of magic. One ridiculously high-level mage has accumulated piles of items, and he has a steady stream of apprentices to craft lots of minor items and a few not-so-minor ones. If he doesn't have it, he can make it. Or get it. Or say no, because obviously, no one needs a Darkskull. Now get out. (Having a proprietor who can't not make his eyes smoulder with power when he's irritated prevents DM abuse nicely.)

-In another metropolis, you basically have to know somebody who's willing to make you an item; a high number of Artificers means that loose magic items don't survive long. (Waste not, want not.) Almost everything is thus custom-crafted, and finding a sufficient crafter is a task in itself.

-In small towns, villages, etc, you might be able to find one or two items. An amulet, a few potions, the barest of magic stuff.

-Out in the boonies, you can buy...el zippo. Stock up before leaving civilization, because who knows what will happen?

-On one continent, magic is so rare that if you have it, you have a permanent bullseye on your face. No one buys, no one sells. Everyone kills.

Everything seems to work in its own situation.
On_the_wings_of_TPK
09-21-05, 04:26 PM Really depends on the campaign i'm running.

I have a home brew that is centred around a city that has a population of aproximately 1,000,000. The techknowology level is roughly late 1700's early 1800's. The empire has most of it's magour city's connected via a rial system, and the imperial navy boast's 6 sky shipps, each armed with magical weapon and a crewed by approximately 50 wizards. Magic mart exists in the relm. If you can afford it chances are you can find it. Certain things are illegal and you may not want to be cuaght with, assuming you convinced someone to sell it to you, but you should be able to find it.

Then there is the Low magic world that I toyed with. There was only one way to purchase a custom magic itme. In one of the cities there was a golem who is collecting magic items and gold to complete a project. No one knows what project, but it is forever working on it and requires a near endless suplly of magic items for it. He will make a specific item for you, however it will cost you 4 times market value. He may be convinced howqever to trade services for quests. Becuase he sometimes needs specific things he will bargain adventuring parties to quest for specific items in exchange for a certain item. And of course the civilaztions of old had magic itmes. these can be found by exploring ruins and facing untold danger.
(I saw this idea posted the boards. Not sure the post's name, but it was good Idea and i decided to use it. Kudos mystery poster.)
Warboss Morgrum
09-21-05, 07:15 PM I use the good old Walmart method. I also make my merchants quite serious CR in case the PCs get any bright ideas. I find that having low CR, low item count merchants leads to merchant whacking (I run a lot of evil games).
Wookie1120
09-21-05, 07:22 PM It's a rare thing that my players can just find a shop with magic items. a few minor ones are available on a case by case basis, but for the most part, no. They earn them. Either as a quest reward or through loot. There is a mages guild available in most major cities, and there they can commission items to be made, but that takes time, materials, and most of all, money.
I use random tables for the most part, but make sure to insert stuff specific to the characters occassionally as well. Perhaps via an NPC with the same weapon preference as one character.
LordHumungus
09-21-05, 07:33 PM All very interesting...thanks for the replies. I'm not quite as alone as I feared, but it appears I am definitely in the minority on this one. My next campaign will be taking place in FR and I have been wresling with the abundance of magic there, especially with the items shops of the Thayan enclaves. I think I will allow some shops, but nothing very good...scrolls 1-3, potions, and some minor items up to around 2,000gp value.
Wookie1120
09-21-05, 07:38 PM All very interesting...thanks for the replies. I'm not quite as alone as I feared, but it appears I am definitely in the minority on this one. My next campaign will be taking place in FR and I have been wresling with the abundance of magic there, especially with the items shops of the Thayan enclaves. I think I will allow some shops, but nothing very good...scrolls 1-3, potions, and some minor items up to around 2,000gp value.
Keep in mind that also in the DMG is a table showing the maximum value of anything available in a city based on population. This is a very good guide as well. It takes into account that in a large city, it is easier to find better items, and better magic items.
LordHumungus
09-21-05, 07:45 PM Keep in mind that also in the DMG is a table showing the maximum value of anything available in a city based on population. This is a very good guide as well. It takes into account that in a large city, it is easier to find better items, and better magic items.

I'd forgotten about that one....they'll be in Neverwinter for quite a long time barring anything unforseen....which, of course, means that after an adventure or 2 they'll find a way to be in Maztica :P
Tyler Do'Urden
09-21-05, 07:53 PM You know, if you waltz into any (usually nonevil) mage association like a guild or a college with enough coin in your pockets, they'll probably make whatever you want to order.

If some random guy came into my architecture class and asked the professor to design a house for him, I'd have the next few weeks off.

I mean, there doesn't have to be a +1 Walmart of Savings in every campaign world for the PCs to get the items they need. Just have them wait. The core rules assume that there's downtime between adventures during which you train to level. As long as you're leveling, you might as well have a sword made or something.
allenchan
09-21-05, 09:10 PM At character creaton I give them the starting wealth and tell them to go to town, buy whatever as long as its within rules. once the game starts, I try to keep them close to the wealth level, but they dont always get to pick and choose what they're going to be getting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordHumungus 09-21-05, 02:26 PM	One of the things introduced in 3rd ed. was the wealth tables for PC's, giving DM's a much needed idea of the scope of things that should be available to a character of a certain level. This has been one of my favorite additions along with the pricing system for all magical items so that it is a breeze to make up higher level PC's and just pick their magic items from their available wealth. I have also noticed that most of the books seem to assume that magic items will be able to be purchased by PC's under most circumstances. Most of the posts I have read on the various D&D boards here that I have read seem to indicate that this is a norm in most groups, sometimes to the extent that players will have all of a characters magical items picked out for their career at level 1, simply buying them with the money that they know they will have at levelX. I tend to give magic items out as I want/need the PC's to acquire them, or feel that they have earned them and usually will roll a couple up randomly just to put some items that I would not normally pick out into the mix. I nearly never have magical items offered for sale, as it just doesn't suit my style, although, on occasion i allow them xxxxgp value in items as a reward if they are on a quest for someone. I have no issues with other peoples games that allow PC's to purchase items, as it doesn't really affect me at all, but I was curious as to how other DM's here handled giving out magical items and just how alone I am in my style of distributing them.
clarkvalentine 09-21-05, 02:40 PM	In the occasional Eberron game I run, the PC are employed by a guild of investigators and spies - there's an artificer employed by the guild (think James Bond's "Q") who keeps the PCs outfitted with gear. Pretty much they want it, they got it, within their level's wealth limit.
JaedenKaal 09-21-05, 02:45 PM	In our groups, the PCs will only ever be able to buy magical gear in cities (and huge cities at that) and even then, they won't find necessarily what they want, they'll find what's for sale. Basic stuff, like +1 weapons and armor, low-cost wondrous items, scrolls, potions, etc... Anything else they'll need to get commissioned (for a higher price than market value), find, or make themselves.
Murrdox 09-21-05, 02:48 PM	I'm very much against the "Wall Mart of Magic Items" mentality. In a very large metropolis, I assume that characters will be able to find many minor magical items without problem. +1 longswords, minor wonderous items, level 1-3 scrolls, etc. However, anything more powerful than that needs to be specificially commissioned by the players, which means the players need to find a wizard willing and able to create the item for them. Depending on the strength of the item in question, gold may simply not be enough of a price to pay. If a wizard is powerful enough to forge a +5 Flaming Vorpal Greatsword, he probably doesn't have much problems in the way of money. Such a reward would be a quest reward for working for the wizard. More moderate items, such as a +2 Full Plate could be simply commissioned, and bought at market price. The "commissioned" part of it only comes into play if the characters cannot afford to wait for as long as it will take to make the item. They may have to commission it, and come back later when it is done. If the players are not in an area that is well civilized, or in an area without many wizards, they simply may not be able to get magical items made for themselves... period.
orionm42 09-21-05, 02:49 PM	I'm certain I'm in the extreme minority here, but I rely almost exclusively on random tables for determining treasure. As a result, I hand out quite a few magic items. However, these items are frequently not what the PCs had hoped for or wanted. As such, they often wind up selling treasure items and crafting their own equipment. Like others have stated, my local merchants generally do not carry anything more than +1 weapons or armor. Also, the items carried almost never have special abilities. As such, my PCs must either try to find a use for what I give them as part of a treasure hoard, or they must craft their own equipment.
VirgilCaine 09-21-05, 02:55 PM	I don't have Wal-Marts of Magic items, I have "pawn shops" of items. A Wizard's Guild primarily runs the magic item business IMC. They have offices in every city to supply local spellcasters with components. As far as magic items go, they will have lots of stuff that's pretty much the same or nothing special--maybe five or six notable items per Guild store. Some oddball items. Some cursed items. Anything above a certain threshold (e.g. intelligent items or useful cursed items or entirely new ones) is sent to a better secured facility.
janusthinker 09-21-05, 03:21 PM	Basically, in the campaign world I've played most of my games in, availability of magic items varies very widely depending on where you are. -In one metropolis, there is, in fact, a near-Wal-Mart of magic. One ridiculously high-level mage has accumulated piles of items, and he has a steady stream of apprentices to craft lots of minor items and a few not-so-minor ones. If he doesn't have it, he can make it. Or get it. Or say no, because obviously, no one needs a Darkskull. Now get out. (Having a proprietor who can't not make his eyes smoulder with power when he's irritated prevents DM abuse nicely.) -In another metropolis, you basically have to know somebody who's willing to make you an item; a high number of Artificers means that loose magic items don't survive long. (Waste not, want not.) Almost everything is thus custom-crafted, and finding a sufficient crafter is a task in itself. -In small towns, villages, etc, you might be able to find one or two items. An amulet, a few potions, the barest of magic stuff. -Out in the boonies, you can buy...el zippo. Stock up before leaving civilization, because who knows what will happen? -On one continent, magic is so rare that if you have it, you have a permanent bullseye on your face. No one buys, no one sells. Everyone kills. Everything seems to work in its own situation.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 09-21-05, 04:26 PM	Really depends on the campaign i'm running. I have a home brew that is centred around a city that has a population of aproximately 1,000,000. The techknowology level is roughly late 1700's early 1800's. The empire has most of it's magour city's connected via a rial system, and the imperial navy boast's 6 sky shipps, each armed with magical weapon and a crewed by approximately 50 wizards. Magic mart exists in the relm. If you can afford it chances are you can find it. Certain things are illegal and you may not want to be cuaght with, assuming you convinced someone to sell it to you, but you should be able to find it. Then there is the Low magic world that I toyed with. There was only one way to purchase a custom magic itme. In one of the cities there was a golem who is collecting magic items and gold to complete a project. No one knows what project, but it is forever working on it and requires a near endless suplly of magic items for it. He will make a specific item for you, however it will cost you 4 times market value. He may be convinced howqever to trade services for quests. Becuase he sometimes needs specific things he will bargain adventuring parties to quest for specific items in exchange for a certain item. And of course the civilaztions of old had magic itmes. these can be found by exploring ruins and facing untold danger. (I saw this idea posted the boards. Not sure the post's name, but it was good Idea and i decided to use it. Kudos mystery poster.)
Warboss Morgrum 09-21-05, 07:15 PM	I use the good old Walmart method. I also make my merchants quite serious CR in case the PCs get any bright ideas. I find that having low CR, low item count merchants leads to merchant whacking (I run a lot of evil games).
Wookie1120 09-21-05, 07:22 PM	It's a rare thing that my players can just find a shop with magic items. a few minor ones are available on a case by case basis, but for the most part, no. They earn them. Either as a quest reward or through loot. There is a mages guild available in most major cities, and there they can commission items to be made, but that takes time, materials, and most of all, money. I use random tables for the most part, but make sure to insert stuff specific to the characters occassionally as well. Perhaps via an NPC with the same weapon preference as one character.
LordHumungus 09-21-05, 07:33 PM	All very interesting...thanks for the replies. I'm not quite as alone as I feared, but it appears I am definitely in the minority on this one. My next campaign will be taking place in FR and I have been wresling with the abundance of magic there, especially with the items shops of the Thayan enclaves. I think I will allow some shops, but nothing very good...scrolls 1-3, potions, and some minor items up to around 2,000gp value.
Wookie1120 09-21-05, 07:38 PM	All very interesting...thanks for the replies. I'm not quite as alone as I feared, but it appears I am definitely in the minority on this one. My next campaign will be taking place in FR and I have been wresling with the abundance of magic there, especially with the items shops of the Thayan enclaves. I think I will allow some shops, but nothing very good...scrolls 1-3, potions, and some minor items up to around 2,000gp value. Keep in mind that also in the DMG is a table showing the maximum value of anything available in a city based on population. This is a very good guide as well. It takes into account that in a large city, it is easier to find better items, and better magic items.
LordHumungus 09-21-05, 07:45 PM	Keep in mind that also in the DMG is a table showing the maximum value of anything available in a city based on population. This is a very good guide as well. It takes into account that in a large city, it is easier to find better items, and better magic items. I'd forgotten about that one....they'll be in Neverwinter for quite a long time barring anything unforseen....which, of course, means that after an adventure or 2 they'll find a way to be in Maztica :P
Tyler Do'Urden 09-21-05, 07:53 PM	You know, if you waltz into any (usually nonevil) mage association like a guild or a college with enough coin in your pockets, they'll probably make whatever you want to order. If some random guy came into my architecture class and asked the professor to design a house for him, I'd have the next few weeks off. I mean, there doesn't have to be a +1 Walmart of Savings in every campaign world for the PCs to get the items they need. Just have them wait. The core rules assume that there's downtime between adventures during which you train to level. As long as you're leveling, you might as well have a sword made or something.
allenchan 09-21-05, 09:10 PM	At character creaton I give them the starting wealth and tell them to go to town, buy whatever as long as its within rules. once the game starts, I try to keep them close to the wealth level, but they dont always get to pick and choose what they're going to be getting.