Am I going overboard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Am I going overboard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ChrisSuch
03-16-05, 08:23 PM Hiya all,

I prefer to run an action heavy game with less emphasis on the back story.

Recently, some of my players convinced me to go for more story so I elected to start a new campaign with new characters.

The problem is, one of my players (also likes to DM) is driving me nuts.

Firstly, I said that stats would be generated with a 32 points buy. This wasn't good enough for him. He wanted 37 (actually, he wanted 42 and this was a compromise). When I wouldn't agree he e-mailed all the players secretly and tried to talk them into 'Negotiating' with me to change my mind.

He wanted a feat for free.

He was kind of similar in our previous game. He wanted all this story elements tied into his PC but when I did and he didn't get the outcome he was expecting then he decided he would try and tell me how things should happen.

He started calling me Stalin etc. I checked with my other players, and whilst they said I like my own way (kind of the point of being a DM)

The thing is though, he is one of the guys who pushed for the story heavy campaign.

I just found out he is happily sending e-mails off behind my back even now.

Am I just being paranoid?

Cheers, Chris.
Morwen
03-16-05, 08:29 PM Paranoid? That is when you think people go behind your back with no actual reason to believe so. You're not being paranoid, as you know this happens..

Anyway, I think you should tell him that he can run a 42-point buy campaign with free feats himself if he wants to, where everything revolves around his undoubtedly immortal DMPC. In your campaign, what you say is law, and if he doesn't like it he can find another group to play with. It seems like the kind of behavior that can be nothing but disruptive to a group/campaign, and even more so if it isn't stopped in the beginning. IMHO :)

Good luck.
Arkonth
03-16-05, 08:32 PM No, this is what the rest of us call a problem player. You simply need to tell him that it's your game and while your happy to take his suggestions (use the story heavy campaign as an example) your the DM and have the final call. If he persists in his detrimental and underhanded behavior then ask him politely to leave.

Now on another note, someone is bound to shortly tell you to mercilessly slaughter his character. I'm going to suggest you stay away from that idea and try to talk this out and ask him to leave if that fails.
Moon-Lancer
03-16-05, 08:34 PM I would suggest you keep regular contact with the other players. This will show that you are not what he is twisting you to become. The biggest problem I see in the near or far feature is that he will poison your players like worm tug in lotr. This is why you need to keep contact with your players, so you can throw off any doubt he may be weighing upon the other players. He might want to dm and this is his way of acting upon it. Not the best way if you ask me. I would just keep open communication, that’s the best advice I can give you. Also maybe you might want to consider talking to him or asking him to leave if he really doesn’t want to play. Tell him you think that is actions are speaking this louder then his silent words to you.
BobtheMighty
03-16-05, 08:38 PM mercilessly slaughter his character. . .

oh, wait.

so, he got to make his character with 37 points, and the others had to use 32 points? or did he argue, and as the result you let everyone use 37 points?

I'd find out what other players think of him, too. If they're bothered by his actions, then I would say it'd be most effective to call him out in front of the whole group. If they're not bothered by him so much, then talk to him in private.
Moon-Lancer
03-16-05, 08:40 PM eather way nothing is going to change for the better unless you talk to him
ChrisSuch
03-16-05, 08:43 PM Thanks for the responses guys ...

As for the 32 points thing. I insisted he build his character using a 32 points method just like everyone else in the group. Hell, I thought I was being generous.

I think I find the fact that he is just complaing behind my back about how recalcitrant he thinks I am the most annoying.

I mean, I said to the guys lets start at 1st level. They said they want to play some higher level PCs and suggested 10th. I said how about 8th. They agreed and all was sorted. But then all this other crap. Grrrr.

Anyway, thanks for the moral support.

On the plus side, my wife is one of the players so I know at the very least I have one player (at least, I think I do, hehehehe).

Cheers, Chris.
BW0222
03-16-05, 11:19 PM ChrisSuch,

My recommendation is the following...

Publish a "Campaign Guide" including the following information:
* A nice opening saying that you are willing to having a home campaign.
* When and Where. Include late or cancellation rules.
* The campaign setting and specific starting location.
* Character creation rules. Include your 32 point buy, accepted races, classes, alignments, starting gold, etc. Include any special rules.
* Which rule books you accept at the table.
* How experience and treasure will be handed out and character sheet rules.

Send it out to each of your players along with a note saying if you'd like to sign-up, please reply to and your e-mail. If folks want changes, just say, sorry, but I'm not really comfortable running such a campaign.

I have yet to see any group which honestly decides not to play a campaign if they want to play D&D.
Draco Strang
03-16-05, 11:43 PM Tell him to take a hike if 32 points isn't good enough for him. He's acting ridiculous, if yoru side of the story is complete.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable
03-17-05, 01:02 AM I would suggest you keep regular contact with the other players. This will show that you are not what he is twisting you to become. The biggest problem I see in the near or far feature is that he will poison your players like worm tug in lotr. This is why you need to keep contact with your players, so you can throw off any doubt he may be weighing upon the other players.
.
I disagree. calling too much attention to the problems and trying to get the other players to back you up is definetly not the way to go. You'll pass as on the defensive and you'll end up doing just the same as what he's doing (going behind your back).

If you want to check if he may be right about you being unfair (it can happens involuntarily), you can ask the other players. But don't try to sell your view. This is a game, not a political contest :D

If his conduct bother you, call him on it. Ask him what are his complaints and why he felt the need to go behind your back instead of in your face.

Also maybe you might want to consider talking to him or asking him to leave if he really doesn’t want to play. Tell him you think that is actions are speaking this louder then his silent words to you
Words of wisdom if there ever were...
weasel fierce
03-17-05, 01:24 AM Give him 15 ;)
Vaelan
03-17-05, 02:23 AM No, you are not being paranoid. He is attempting to create a 'Player vs. DM' mentality to the detriment of your game.

I would talk to him about it immediately. Then if he does not desist, I would remove him from the group.
VerinBlod
03-17-05, 05:46 AM Another vote for talking. Just talk with him first about his problems and tell him that you are in for suggestions but that it is still your game. If he doesn't clean up his act remove him from the game.

Good luck
Vanamir
03-17-05, 09:52 AM Just discuss this matter openly in front of your entire group. There is nothing those pesty schemers hate more than having to defend themnselves in the open. :P

If he wants to have his character being more powerful than the others and the entire storyline revolving around his characters ask the others openly if they want to play second fiddle to a player with some infalted ego. And if he still comes up with all those suggestions for the storyline and free bonus feats then ask him whether he would like to DM. The problem is that many (problem) players have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to be a good DM so let them learn it the hard way.
MrkGrismer
03-17-05, 11:27 AM Perhaps he should be reminded that standard point-buy is 25.

In fact, perhaps you should tell your entire group that you agree that 32 points is not good for the campaign, and because of this particular player the game will be a standard 25 point-buy game, thus encouraging storytelling.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChrisSuch 03-16-05, 08:23 PM	Hiya all, I prefer to run an action heavy game with less emphasis on the back story. Recently, some of my players convinced me to go for more story so I elected to start a new campaign with new characters. The problem is, one of my players (also likes to DM) is driving me nuts. Firstly, I said that stats would be generated with a 32 points buy. This wasn't good enough for him. He wanted 37 (actually, he wanted 42 and this was a compromise). When I wouldn't agree he e-mailed all the players secretly and tried to talk them into 'Negotiating' with me to change my mind. He wanted a feat for free. He was kind of similar in our previous game. He wanted all this story elements tied into his PC but when I did and he didn't get the outcome he was expecting then he decided he would try and tell me how things should happen. He started calling me Stalin etc. I checked with my other players, and whilst they said I like my own way (kind of the point of being a DM) The thing is though, he is one of the guys who pushed for the story heavy campaign. I just found out he is happily sending e-mails off behind my back even now. Am I just being paranoid? Cheers, Chris.
Morwen 03-16-05, 08:29 PM	Paranoid? That is when you think people go behind your back with no actual reason to believe so. You're not being paranoid, as you know this happens.. Anyway, I think you should tell him that he can run a 42-point buy campaign with free feats himself if he wants to, where everything revolves around his undoubtedly immortal DMPC. In your campaign, what you say is law, and if he doesn't like it he can find another group to play with. It seems like the kind of behavior that can be nothing but disruptive to a group/campaign, and even more so if it isn't stopped in the beginning. IMHO :) Good luck.
Arkonth 03-16-05, 08:32 PM	No, this is what the rest of us call a problem player. You simply need to tell him that it's your game and while your happy to take his suggestions (use the story heavy campaign as an example) your the DM and have the final call. If he persists in his detrimental and underhanded behavior then ask him politely to leave. Now on another note, someone is bound to shortly tell you to mercilessly slaughter his character. I'm going to suggest you stay away from that idea and try to talk this out and ask him to leave if that fails.
Moon-Lancer 03-16-05, 08:34 PM	I would suggest you keep regular contact with the other players. This will show that you are not what he is twisting you to become. The biggest problem I see in the near or far feature is that he will poison your players like worm tug in lotr. This is why you need to keep contact with your players, so you can throw off any doubt he may be weighing upon the other players. He might want to dm and this is his way of acting upon it. Not the best way if you ask me. I would just keep open communication, that’s the best advice I can give you. Also maybe you might want to consider talking to him or asking him to leave if he really doesn’t want to play. Tell him you think that is actions are speaking this louder then his silent words to you.
BobtheMighty 03-16-05, 08:38 PM	mercilessly slaughter his character. . . oh, wait. so, he got to make his character with 37 points, and the others had to use 32 points? or did he argue, and as the result you let everyone use 37 points? I'd find out what other players think of him, too. If they're bothered by his actions, then I would say it'd be most effective to call him out in front of the whole group. If they're not bothered by him so much, then talk to him in private.
Moon-Lancer 03-16-05, 08:40 PM	eather way nothing is going to change for the better unless you talk to him
ChrisSuch 03-16-05, 08:43 PM	Thanks for the responses guys ... As for the 32 points thing. I insisted he build his character using a 32 points method just like everyone else in the group. Hell, I thought I was being generous. I think I find the fact that he is just complaing behind my back about how recalcitrant he thinks I am the most annoying. I mean, I said to the guys lets start at 1st level. They said they want to play some higher level PCs and suggested 10th. I said how about 8th. They agreed and all was sorted. But then all this other crap. Grrrr. Anyway, thanks for the moral support. On the plus side, my wife is one of the players so I know at the very least I have one player (at least, I think I do, hehehehe). Cheers, Chris.
BW0222 03-16-05, 11:19 PM	ChrisSuch, My recommendation is the following... Publish a "Campaign Guide" including the following information: * A nice opening saying that you are willing to having a home campaign. * When and Where. Include late or cancellation rules. * The campaign setting and specific starting location. * Character creation rules. Include your 32 point buy, accepted races, classes, alignments, starting gold, etc. Include any special rules. * Which rule books you accept at the table. * How experience and treasure will be handed out and character sheet rules. Send it out to each of your players along with a note saying if you'd like to sign-up, please reply to and your e-mail. If folks want changes, just say, sorry, but I'm not really comfortable running such a campaign. I have yet to see any group which honestly decides not to play a campaign if they want to play D&D.
Draco Strang 03-16-05, 11:43 PM	Tell him to take a hike if 32 points isn't good enough for him. He's acting ridiculous, if yoru side of the story is complete.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 03-17-05, 01:02 AM	I would suggest you keep regular contact with the other players. This will show that you are not what he is twisting you to become. The biggest problem I see in the near or far feature is that he will poison your players like worm tug in lotr. This is why you need to keep contact with your players, so you can throw off any doubt he may be weighing upon the other players. . I disagree. calling too much attention to the problems and trying to get the other players to back you up is definetly not the way to go. You'll pass as on the defensive and you'll end up doing just the same as what he's doing (going behind your back). If you want to check if he may be right about you being unfair (it can happens involuntarily), you can ask the other players. But don't try to sell your view. This is a game, not a political contest :D If his conduct bother you, call him on it. Ask him what are his complaints and why he felt the need to go behind your back instead of in your face. Also maybe you might want to consider talking to him or asking him to leave if he really doesn’t want to play. Tell him you think that is actions are speaking this louder then his silent words to you Words of wisdom if there ever were...
weasel fierce 03-17-05, 01:24 AM	Give him 15 ;)
Vaelan 03-17-05, 02:23 AM	No, you are not being paranoid. He is attempting to create a 'Player vs. DM' mentality to the detriment of your game. I would talk to him about it immediately. Then if he does not desist, I would remove him from the group.
VerinBlod 03-17-05, 05:46 AM	Another vote for talking. Just talk with him first about his problems and tell him that you are in for suggestions but that it is still your game. If he doesn't clean up his act remove him from the game. Good luck
Vanamir 03-17-05, 09:52 AM	Just discuss this matter openly in front of your entire group. There is nothing those pesty schemers hate more than having to defend themnselves in the open. :P If he wants to have his character being more powerful than the others and the entire storyline revolving around his characters ask the others openly if they want to play second fiddle to a player with some infalted ego. And if he still comes up with all those suggestions for the storyline and free bonus feats then ask him whether he would like to DM. The problem is that many (problem) players have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to be a good DM so let them learn it the hard way.
MrkGrismer 03-17-05, 11:27 AM	Perhaps he should be reminded that standard point-buy is 25. In fact, perhaps you should tell your entire group that you agree that 32 points is not good for the campaign, and because of this particular player the game will be a standard 25 point-buy game, thus encouraging storytelling.