Am I hallucinating? Need help. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Am I hallucinating? Need help. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pz.Az.04Maus
12-16-05, 01:36 AM Recently, as a new DM, I've been trying to set up a new campaign. Naturally, after 2 entire sessions trying to figure out combat and Dungeoneering, I've now gone to Roleplaying and the entire city-Exploration thing. Now, meet one of my players. While on these forums, I found the Grim Centurion Class on here, and decided to allow it to be used. This guy here, naturally a person infatuated with wanting to take over the world, is also one who likes halloween, scaring people, and the intellectual idea of the undead. He's a pretty good guy, and does well at roleplaying, strategic thought in combat, and is pretty well rounded. However, while he wanted to be evil, I was new and wanted to have something be easier on me, so I only let the party be good/neutral alignment.

However, even before the beginning, this person wanted to create a City of the Undead, and be the ruler of the Continent of the world that they're on, and he was going to start with this desert town. Besides the roleplaying possibilities, and the fun mayhem it will cause, I wasn't exactly excited to hear that instead of wanting to do the normal D&D thing, the Dungeoneering, the King Knighting the Fighter, etc, he wanted to do what his heart wanted him to do, take over the world (ala Pinky & the Brain, but with more Halloween Botox :eek: ) and have his empire. First thing, I wouldn't like my first Continent ever created to be enslaved by a person with the intentions of a Liche, and that I wanted in the first place to have a good/neutral party, along with the fact that I wanted a little something different, although this is audacious already; I don't want this guy to have to be frustrated. He's a pretty good guy, and has a good head on its shoulders, no matter how tainted (Heros of Horror) it was born like.

Everyone of the characters is level 4, with a Rogue Halfdragon, the aformentioned Grim Centurion (if anyone wants it, I can repost it here), and an unknown 3rd or 4th player. Currently, we have 3 players and me, but I am not sure about others, since of D&D's "popular perception."

If anyone could give me guidance on what to do, and where to go with the campaign, please help.

Plot devices, what I need to do to better set up RP parts of the game, how to create towns, all that, would be kindly needed for this.
Bringslite
12-16-05, 01:52 AM Well Youngster DM, Ye should have started off with the core rules and none of this fancy half dragon and Grim Centurion crap. Ye started it by allowing wierd shite into yer sacred campaign and now Ye shall reap Yer just rewards.

In the future start off with core and branch out when you are ready for more.
Fixxxer
12-16-05, 01:55 AM I agree with Bringslite. Given that you're a new DM, you should stick with what is given to you in the core rulebooks (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual). Once you've developed a better understanding of the game, then you can consider introducing other material into your game.

To deal with the current situation, I would announce that the game you're running right now was meant to be a learning experience. Now you're ready to begin the real game, which will be core rules only (and do yourself a favor and disallow evil PCs for a while as well).
WCH
12-16-05, 02:07 AM If he wants to make a city and a character who's an emperor, he doesn't want to play, he wants to DM. Let him.

I'm not saying don't DM yourself, but ask him if he'd like to create his own campaign setting and run a couple adventures in it from time to time -- then whichever of you is better at DMing/likes it more will do it full time.
revnk
12-16-05, 01:02 PM 1. Start with core classes.

2. Start with core races.

3. Start with 1st level characters.

4. Start with non-evil characters.

5. Start simple--a dungeon crawl, a rescue mission, an escape, escorting a caravan, etc.

6. Start with some perspective: who or what is "epic" in your campaign, and who isn't? (If there are 20th level NPCs in your world, your 4th level lich wannabe isn't even going to get as far as ol' Brain ever got before being humiliated; there are certainly campaigns where 4th level characters are rare and powerful, but it doesn't sound like you're trying to run one. Unless you've consciously decided that your PCs are the top of the heap, there will always be someone or something in your imaginary universe that's tougher than they are.)

But really, truly: it comes down to the first three things on the list. When you have some DMing experience under your belt, then you can start running a game with variant rules (like taint) or variant classes (like that Grim Centurion Thingamabubber you mentioned). Master walking before you try to run.

Good luck!
grandaustino
12-16-05, 02:44 PM The most important lesson a DM will ever learn is how to say no. If a player wants to run a character who just doesnt fit in your campaign you just have to be firm and let them know it's no going to happen. Establish firm guidelines on what you are allowing in your campaign in terms of rules, race, class (especially Prestige classes), and alignement (including goals). True it does stiffle creativity a bit, but it will pay off for everyone in terms of a game that is workable. Nothing is worse than when your party has a "what are we all doing here together anyway" moment.
kitsune ninja
12-16-05, 05:36 PM I have to agree with the guidelines revnk gave you.

And no DM, even an experienced one,would let a PC rule a continent. Especially at 4th level.

Also, it doesn't sound like he's much of a team player. I don't think your other player would have much fun playing in the world this guy is trying to create. I know I would be annoyed if one of my companions was a lich-emperor who ruled the world. Let him DM his own game once in a while, but don't let him control your game.

Remember, the word "No" is your best friend. PCs have the annoying habit of doing what ever they can get away with, and one of your jobs as DM is to keep them in line. You want them to have fun, but you want to have fun too.

Tell him that you're inexperienced and that you want to keep things simple while you learn how to DM. If he's as good a guy as you say, he'll understand.
Kuronue
12-16-05, 07:53 PM if a 4th level PC rules a continent what happens to the5th, 6th, or 7th level NPCs? No, ruling a continent takes at least a 15th, if not epic leve, character.
Fixxxer
12-17-05, 04:51 AM And no DM, even an experienced one,would let a PC rule a continent. Especially at 4th level.

I would. Then I would ask what his next PC is going to be. When he asks why, I'll point out that ruling a continent is hard work and doesn't leave any time for travel and adventure, so while this PC is sitting in a palace somewhere, he needs a PC he can actually play. Then I'd have his puny 4th level ruler assassinated by a guy who just achieved his first level of assassin. Afterwards, I'd stuff the player into the trunk of his car and roll it off the landing into the river. That's what he gets for being stupid.
Koji
12-17-05, 05:32 AM The DMG 2 is a great book for town building. The DMG 1 has the basic guidelines and the DMG 2 has some fun additional quirks.

Basically, since you're running with a team of freaks, maybe they think they're good enough to take the throne. Maybe they think they're destined for it.

Lets see, level four? That's amateur by D&D standards. They're going to need to go out and collect power and followers--delving into dungeons for magical items, breaking into vaults for money, and dealing with monstrous races to rally them to your cause.

If I was evil and wanted to take over a continent, the first thing I'd do is go seek out the lowest of the low--the people who feel subjugated and want power themselves. Ghouls, goblins, kobolds, orcs, hobgoblins, lizardfolk, ogres, hill giants...You get the goblins for numbers, the hobgoblins for military discipline, the kobolds for siege engineering, the ogres for brute force, the lizardfolk for aquatic capabilities, and the orcs for...all sorts of reasons. Pretty soon instead of a level 4 nobody, you're a level 18 monstrosity leading your inhuman hordes to crush civilization so that you may take your place as emperor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pz.Az.04Maus 12-16-05, 01:36 AM	Recently, as a new DM, I've been trying to set up a new campaign. Naturally, after 2 entire sessions trying to figure out combat and Dungeoneering, I've now gone to Roleplaying and the entire city-Exploration thing. Now, meet one of my players. While on these forums, I found the Grim Centurion Class on here, and decided to allow it to be used. This guy here, naturally a person infatuated with wanting to take over the world, is also one who likes halloween, scaring people, and the intellectual idea of the undead. He's a pretty good guy, and does well at roleplaying, strategic thought in combat, and is pretty well rounded. However, while he wanted to be evil, I was new and wanted to have something be easier on me, so I only let the party be good/neutral alignment. However, even before the beginning, this person wanted to create a City of the Undead, and be the ruler of the Continent of the world that they're on, and he was going to start with this desert town. Besides the roleplaying possibilities, and the fun mayhem it will cause, I wasn't exactly excited to hear that instead of wanting to do the normal D&D thing, the Dungeoneering, the King Knighting the Fighter, etc, he wanted to do what his heart wanted him to do, take over the world (ala Pinky & the Brain, but with more Halloween Botox :eek: ) and have his empire. First thing, I wouldn't like my first Continent ever created to be enslaved by a person with the intentions of a Liche, and that I wanted in the first place to have a good/neutral party, along with the fact that I wanted a little something different, although this is audacious already; I don't want this guy to have to be frustrated. He's a pretty good guy, and has a good head on its shoulders, no matter how tainted (Heros of Horror) it was born like. Everyone of the characters is level 4, with a Rogue Halfdragon, the aformentioned Grim Centurion (if anyone wants it, I can repost it here), and an unknown 3rd or 4th player. Currently, we have 3 players and me, but I am not sure about others, since of D&D's "popular perception." If anyone could give me guidance on what to do, and where to go with the campaign, please help. Plot devices, what I need to do to better set up RP parts of the game, how to create towns, all that, would be kindly needed for this.
Bringslite 12-16-05, 01:52 AM	Well Youngster DM, Ye should have started off with the core rules and none of this fancy half dragon and Grim Centurion crap. Ye started it by allowing wierd shite into yer sacred campaign and now Ye shall reap Yer just rewards. In the future start off with core and branch out when you are ready for more.
Fixxxer 12-16-05, 01:55 AM	I agree with Bringslite. Given that you're a new DM, you should stick with what is given to you in the core rulebooks (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual). Once you've developed a better understanding of the game, then you can consider introducing other material into your game. To deal with the current situation, I would announce that the game you're running right now was meant to be a learning experience. Now you're ready to begin the real game, which will be core rules only (and do yourself a favor and disallow evil PCs for a while as well).
WCH 12-16-05, 02:07 AM	If he wants to make a city and a character who's an emperor, he doesn't want to play, he wants to DM. Let him. I'm not saying don't DM yourself, but ask him if he'd like to create his own campaign setting and run a couple adventures in it from time to time -- then whichever of you is better at DMing/likes it more will do it full time.
revnk 12-16-05, 01:02 PM	1. Start with core classes. 2. Start with core races. 3. Start with 1st level characters. 4. Start with non-evil characters. 5. Start simple--a dungeon crawl, a rescue mission, an escape, escorting a caravan, etc. 6. Start with some perspective: who or what is "epic" in your campaign, and who isn't? (If there are 20th level NPCs in your world, your 4th level lich wannabe isn't even going to get as far as ol' Brain ever got before being humiliated; there are certainly campaigns where 4th level characters are rare and powerful, but it doesn't sound like you're trying to run one. Unless you've consciously decided that your PCs are the top of the heap, there will always be someone or something in your imaginary universe that's tougher than they are.) But really, truly: it comes down to the first three things on the list. When you have some DMing experience under your belt, then you can start running a game with variant rules (like taint) or variant classes (like that Grim Centurion Thingamabubber you mentioned). Master walking before you try to run. Good luck!
grandaustino 12-16-05, 02:44 PM	The most important lesson a DM will ever learn is how to say no. If a player wants to run a character who just doesnt fit in your campaign you just have to be firm and let them know it's no going to happen. Establish firm guidelines on what you are allowing in your campaign in terms of rules, race, class (especially Prestige classes), and alignement (including goals). True it does stiffle creativity a bit, but it will pay off for everyone in terms of a game that is workable. Nothing is worse than when your party has a "what are we all doing here together anyway" moment.
kitsune ninja 12-16-05, 05:36 PM	I have to agree with the guidelines revnk gave you. And no DM, even an experienced one,would let a PC rule a continent. Especially at 4th level. Also, it doesn't sound like he's much of a team player. I don't think your other player would have much fun playing in the world this guy is trying to create. I know I would be annoyed if one of my companions was a lich-emperor who ruled the world. Let him DM his own game once in a while, but don't let him control your game. Remember, the word "No" is your best friend. PCs have the annoying habit of doing what ever they can get away with, and one of your jobs as DM is to keep them in line. You want them to have fun, but you want to have fun too. Tell him that you're inexperienced and that you want to keep things simple while you learn how to DM. If he's as good a guy as you say, he'll understand.
Kuronue 12-16-05, 07:53 PM	if a 4th level PC rules a continent what happens to the5th, 6th, or 7th level NPCs? No, ruling a continent takes at least a 15th, if not epic leve, character.
Fixxxer 12-17-05, 04:51 AM	And no DM, even an experienced one,would let a PC rule a continent. Especially at 4th level. I would. Then I would ask what his next PC is going to be. When he asks why, I'll point out that ruling a continent is hard work and doesn't leave any time for travel and adventure, so while this PC is sitting in a palace somewhere, he needs a PC he can actually play. Then I'd have his puny 4th level ruler assassinated by a guy who just achieved his first level of assassin. Afterwards, I'd stuff the player into the trunk of his car and roll it off the landing into the river. That's what he gets for being stupid.
Koji 12-17-05, 05:32 AM	The DMG 2 is a great book for town building. The DMG 1 has the basic guidelines and the DMG 2 has some fun additional quirks. Basically, since you're running with a team of freaks, maybe they think they're good enough to take the throne. Maybe they think they're destined for it. Lets see, level four? That's amateur by D&D standards. They're going to need to go out and collect power and followers--delving into dungeons for magical items, breaking into vaults for money, and dealing with monstrous races to rally them to your cause. If I was evil and wanted to take over a continent, the first thing I'd do is go seek out the lowest of the low--the people who feel subjugated and want power themselves. Ghouls, goblins, kobolds, orcs, hobgoblins, lizardfolk, ogres, hill giants...You get the goblins for numbers, the hobgoblins for military discipline, the kobolds for siege engineering, the ogres for brute force, the lizardfolk for aquatic capabilities, and the orcs for...all sorts of reasons. Pretty soon instead of a level 4 nobody, you're a level 18 monstrosity leading your inhuman hordes to crush civilization so that you may take your place as emperor.