Am I the only one? (Player Power Level) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Am I the only one? (Player Power Level) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Leatherwood
03-14-06, 09:27 PM Am I the only DM that is not worried about his players being too powerful? I hear about this or that race or class or feat or spell being too powerful and shrug. I figure that I'm not playing against my players, I'm playing with them. If any one character begins to outshine another, I'll address the problem at that point - but until then, why worry?
Kresalak
03-14-06, 09:33 PM You're not the only one. In fact, I even try to help my players be more powerful.
20goingon1232
03-14-06, 09:40 PM Am I the only DM that is not worried about his players being too powerful? I hear about this or that race or class or feat or spell being too powerful and shrug. I figure that I'm not playing against my players, I'm playing with them. If any one character begins to outshine another, I'll address the problem at that point - but until then, why worry?
You aren't the only one. My players know I am a regular over at the CO board and anything they can do, I can do better. They also know that if they start violating my rules, I will also start violating them and bad things start to happen.
da beast
03-14-06, 09:58 PM I don't worry about it because where I live there's a VERY limited amount of dnders so they know not to put their ability to play in jepordy.
RK)13
03-14-06, 10:05 PM I don't worry about it. I look at it as a challenge. The more powerful they are, the more I have to work to challenge their characters. It makes things more interesting for me.
loaba
03-14-06, 10:15 PM As a player, I prefer a wide-open game (meaning access to the most resources possible). As a DM, if I were to do differently, well that wouldn't be right, would it?
tiercel
03-14-06, 10:35 PM I think the problem with power levels comes in two major kinds of situations:

1) Power imbalance. This can mean that at least one of the PCs is much less powerful than the others, which can be less fun for that player if he feels his character is constantly outshone.

It can also mean imbalance between PCs and DMs -- leading to frustrated players whose characters are constantly smacked around by their DM's better-optimized monsters and NPCs, or frustrated DMs whose games aren't challenging because they aren't as good at optimizing the challenges as the players are at optimizing their PCs.

If all of the players have characters that are roughly equally powerful (or none of the players are unhappy about either being weak or a PC "not carrying his weight), then the first problem isn't a problem. If the DM is capable of coming up with dangers that are appropriately challenging for the power level of his players, the second problem isn't a problem.

2) The one trick pony. Here, the min-maxing has produced exactly one max: the "super god trick" of the one trick pony. This can be a problem because the trick is cool the first few times, but can simply get old rather quickly... plus it leaves the DM in a bad situation in terms of providing challenges. Any challenge that is vulnerable to the OTP's trick may wind up not being much of a challenge, and any challenge specifically designed to counter the OTP can leave him helpless or mostly helpless (and aware of being singled out by the DM).

It's generally a good idea to specialize, but powerful characters should have at least some balance -- every character should be capable of doing something if their best "signature move" doesn't work. It makes the game fun for the player (who always has a character that can contribute *something*), for the other players (whose characters would otherwise be redundant if the foe is OTP-able, and who are "down a party member" if the foe is immune to the OTP), and for the DM (who can worry about good challenges for the party as a group rather than always worrying about the OTP).
BaneBlade
03-14-06, 10:44 PM The only reason I ever worry about players power level is if it starts to affect thier motivation level. If the players start talking like "We're 'x' level, why would we bother going on this adventure?" or "We have 'x' amount of gold, why would our characters risk thier lives for this"

when it gets to that point, its time to change things up and maybe start new characters. Other than that, I dont worry about it as long as they're having fun
Board_Rider
03-14-06, 11:46 PM I don't mind PC power levels. I like people playing PCs they like.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Leatherwood 03-14-06, 09:27 PM	Am I the only DM that is not worried about his players being too powerful? I hear about this or that race or class or feat or spell being too powerful and shrug. I figure that I'm not playing against my players, I'm playing with them. If any one character begins to outshine another, I'll address the problem at that point - but until then, why worry?
Kresalak 03-14-06, 09:33 PM	You're not the only one. In fact, I even try to help my players be more powerful.
20goingon1232 03-14-06, 09:40 PM	Am I the only DM that is not worried about his players being too powerful? I hear about this or that race or class or feat or spell being too powerful and shrug. I figure that I'm not playing against my players, I'm playing with them. If any one character begins to outshine another, I'll address the problem at that point - but until then, why worry? You aren't the only one. My players know I am a regular over at the CO board and anything they can do, I can do better. They also know that if they start violating my rules, I will also start violating them and bad things start to happen.
da beast 03-14-06, 09:58 PM	I don't worry about it because where I live there's a VERY limited amount of dnders so they know not to put their ability to play in jepordy.
RK)13 03-14-06, 10:05 PM	I don't worry about it. I look at it as a challenge. The more powerful they are, the more I have to work to challenge their characters. It makes things more interesting for me.
loaba 03-14-06, 10:15 PM	As a player, I prefer a wide-open game (meaning access to the most resources possible). As a DM, if I were to do differently, well that wouldn't be right, would it?
tiercel 03-14-06, 10:35 PM	I think the problem with power levels comes in two major kinds of situations: 1) Power imbalance. This can mean that at least one of the PCs is much less powerful than the others, which can be less fun for that player if he feels his character is constantly outshone. It can also mean imbalance between PCs and DMs -- leading to frustrated players whose characters are constantly smacked around by their DM's better-optimized monsters and NPCs, or frustrated DMs whose games aren't challenging because they aren't as good at optimizing the challenges as the players are at optimizing their PCs. If all of the players have characters that are roughly equally powerful (or none of the players are unhappy about either being weak or a PC "not carrying his weight), then the first problem isn't a problem. If the DM is capable of coming up with dangers that are appropriately challenging for the power level of his players, the second problem isn't a problem. 2) The one trick pony. Here, the min-maxing has produced exactly one max: the "super god trick" of the one trick pony. This can be a problem because the trick is cool the first few times, but can simply get old rather quickly... plus it leaves the DM in a bad situation in terms of providing challenges. Any challenge that is vulnerable to the OTP's trick may wind up not being much of a challenge, and any challenge specifically designed to counter the OTP can leave him helpless or mostly helpless (and aware of being singled out by the DM). It's generally a good idea to specialize, but powerful characters should have at least some balance -- every character should be capable of doing something if their best "signature move" doesn't work. It makes the game fun for the player (who always has a character that can contribute something), for the other players (whose characters would otherwise be redundant if the foe is OTP-able, and who are "down a party member" if the foe is immune to the OTP), and for the DM (who can worry about good challenges for the party as a group rather than always worrying about the OTP).
BaneBlade 03-14-06, 10:44 PM	The only reason I ever worry about players power level is if it starts to affect thier motivation level. If the players start talking like "We're 'x' level, why would we bother going on this adventure?" or "We have 'x' amount of gold, why would our characters risk thier lives for this" when it gets to that point, its time to change things up and maybe start new characters. Other than that, I dont worry about it as long as they're having fun
Board_Rider 03-14-06, 11:46 PM	I don't mind PC power levels. I like people playing PCs they like.