Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xavier_Silverthorn 05-25-07, 09:25 PM	Note to Mr Noble and Mithos: Click the Back button now! This topic is not for your eyes, for it may contain some possibly spoileriffic content! Please don't read any further. Don't even wistfully glance. No-one will benefit. ============================= Okay. Here's the problem, it isn't a DMPC topic, I've learned already from experience how bad an idea they can be. My problem is with my NPC's. I really care a lot about them, I spend a lot of time thinking about them, fleshing them out, making them seem believable and realistic while at the same time giving them a nice flare of their own, a little "Wow!" factor, especially enemy NPC's. I probably give them more thought than anything else in the campaign world. I give them quirks, likes, dislikes, goals, ambitions, fears, personality and above all, purpose in the campaigns that I run. I don't have the nameless orc leader attack a village with his gang because that's just what orcs do, I have the ingenious War-Captain Warg "One-Eye" Goldfang facilitate staged attacks on Seaworst so as to implicate the rival Duchy that Seaworst's County borders on orders from his Ogre Mage Warlord Kraag the Deciever, of whom Warg seeks to one day usurp due to his belief that Orcenkind deserve to be united under one nation, under one god, Grummsh, and that being indentured to Ogre-kind is an obstacle in that goal. He is an extensive scholar, one of the most intelligent examples of his race... Then he ends up being killed during a skirmish by a lucky orc-bane arrow before the PC's even find out his rank, nevermind his name, ambitions, goals, plans etc. :( Now, that was just an example, it's what I fear, a beautifully crafted NPC, of whom is never able to tell his tale before he is "splat!" gone... Because even though I know I can always have him resurrected and re-occur, that's the problem. My NPC's, only my favourites you understand, not all, have an awful habit of escaping, resurrecting, using doppelgangers, being too powerful for the PC's to defeat right now etc., I even have escape plans already in place for NPC's that I've thought out well in advance! The problem was highlighted at tonight's session, wherein the party have just captured one of my key NPC's, the Jack of Spades, a cleric of Ralishaz and one of Pirate Lord Serpantos's personal bodyguard, while he attempted to steal the Crown of the Necromantic Prince from a Kordian/Pelorian dungeonvault, underneath the City of Saltmarsh, while a band of Serpanto's Red Dragon Skull Pirate's attacked the city. After an expedition into the dungeon, a chase, a fight and eventually a gambling game, upon which the party wagered the Crown for the life of one of their party members, he lost and was soon thereafter, captured. Now I was fine with this, I don't snatch victory from my party because I love my NPC's so much that they should win all the time. I'm good to my PC's and they are good to me and we'd all attest to that. But then the party druid, a member of the constabulary of Saltmarsh said that he wanted to take the Jack of Spades personally to jail, personally make sure he went to trial, personally make sure he hanged and died, not necessarily because of what the pirate's had done, but because he didn't want Jack coming back as a re-occuring enemy, his reasoning being that a re-occuring enemy from my last campaign, a cultist of Vecna by name of Rhodyle, the Goblin Thief, killed off the entire party between himself and a Devourer, despite the party being more than capable of finishing them both off. Now, understandably, I began to think very defensibly, I haven't said anything to my group, but inside I wasn't quite happy with good ol' Jack, a character that I feel I haven't even really properly introduced to the campaign (nothing beyond, "That cleric has the crown, get him!", whack twack.) just croaking, yet I get the feeling I may just annoy my players by having him escape somehow or get resurrected, like some other of my NPC's. I don't intend on him living forever, just to be able to use him for just a bit longer as a tool to further the campaign, and just to show a little bit of life, make him memorable, considering the work I put into him, instead of just another speed-bump towards then next level. Am I wrong? Am I too attached to some parts of my schemes and characters to the detriment of my players? I think I've explained it the best I can, what's your opinion as Dungeon Masters?
allenchan 05-25-07, 09:30 PM	I think I've explained it the best I can, what's your opinion as Dungeon Masters? Uh... stop? The game is about the PCs, not the NPCs. I rarely give NPCs more than a name before the PC's ask what it is (make that, if they ask). If, and only if, the PCs begin to express a more then cursory interest in an NPC do I flesh them out, and never, ever to the extent you've described.
tombowings 05-25-07, 09:36 PM	I think it is great that you love your NPC's so much. I mean, the PC's would escape, why can't your NPC's. Those are just my thoughts though, on the favoritism of the PC's in a world - they should be too overly special. You could show off the the Jack-of-spades during the trial as well. And then try and have him make a run for it after going through and loosing the trial, right before he gets hung. The PC's end up killing him. That way, they are happy and you get to show him off. If you want to show off your NPC's just make the PC's roleplay everything.
Xavier_Silverthorn 05-25-07, 09:52 PM	Uh... stop? The game is about the PCs, not the NPCs. I rarely give NPCs more than a name before the PC's ask what it is (make that, if they ask). If, and only if, the PCs begin to express a more then cursory interest in an NPC do I flesh them out, and never, ever to the extent you've described. Ah, right. It's not like I give every Tom, Dick and Barkeep this much attention. It's just that I like to be prepared in case they do take an interest in someone, and especially in someone that they are very likely to interact with, such as enemy NPC's. That and, planning out NPC's is, for me, one of the biggest thrills of DMing, I could probably liken my fondness for my favourite villains to my player's fondness for their own characters. I think it is great that you love your NPC's so much. I mean, the PC's would escape, why can't your NPC's. Those are just my thoughts though, on the favoritism of the PC's in a world - they should be too overly special. You could show off the the Jack-of-spades during the trial as well. And then try and have him make a run for it after going through and loosing the trial, right before he gets hung. The PC's end up killing him. That way, they are happy and you get to show him off. If you want to show off your NPC's just make the PC's roleplay everything. That's a fantastic idea, can't believe I hadn't thought of that. My group is quite roleplay intensive, so that'd work. Also, I kind of agree with your, PC favouritism comment, I feel that just because the PC's are centre-stage, doesn't necessarily give them the right to a monopoly of it.
Link_L.O.Z._Warrior 05-25-07, 09:58 PM	You could make a few evil NPCs that are so horrible(in their actions) that you'll be glad to get to stop RPing them after a while....just a thought. You could also just make them a tiny bit stronger than the NPCs so its harder to kill them
remoray 05-25-07, 10:05 PM	When a deity wants to meddle in the prime material plane, they often send an aspect, ie a representative that shares many of their characteristics, to act on their behalf. The advantage is that, should the PCs kill the aspect, the deity is still okay and has plenty more aspects to send. This technique can work for more mundane NPCs as well. For every high-level NPC, work up one or more slightly-less-powerful offsiders, sidekicks or lieutenants that can interact with the PCs on the NPC's behalf. It is entirely believable that these representatives would share most of the personality traits of the NPC they work for.
Lina_Inverse 05-25-07, 10:06 PM	My problem is with my NPC's. I really care a lot about them, I spend a lot of time thinking about them, fleshing them out, making them seem believable and realistic while at the same time giving them a nice flare of their own, a little "Wow!" factor, especially enemy NPC's. I probably give them more thought than anything else in the campaign world. I give them quirks, likes, dislikes, goals, ambitions, fears, personality and above all, purpose in the campaigns that I run. I don't have the nameless orc leader attack a village with his gang because that's just what orcs do, I have the ingenious War-Captain Warg "One-Eye" Goldfang facilitate staged attacks on Seaworst so as to implicate the rival Duchy that Seaworst's County borders on orders from his Ogre Mage Warlord Kraag the Deciever, of whom Warg seeks to one day usurp due to his belief that Orcenkind deserve to be united under one nation, under one god, Grummsh, and that being indentured to Ogre-kind is an obstacle in that goal. He is an extensive scholar, one of the most intelligent examples of his race... Then he ends up being killed during a skirmish by a lucky orc-bane arrow before the PC's even find out his rank, nevermind his name, ambitions, goals, plans etc. :( Heres the quick and obvious question. How is your NPC's backstory relevant to the game? It's not, it doesn't matter so like all mundane things in the game leave it as background and ignore it. Just like you ignore the PCs eating unless something happens, or going to the bathroom, or fading to black when a PC gets lucky(if that happens in your games.). It's not important, treat it as such. The problem was highlighted at tonight's session, wherein the party have just captured one of my key NPC's, the Jack of Spades, a cleric of Ralishaz and one of Pirate Lord Serpantos's personal bodyguard, while he attempted to steal the Crown of the Necromantic Prince from a Kordian/Pelorian dungeonvault, underneath the City of Saltmarsh, while a band of Serpanto's Red Dragon Skull Pirate's attacked the city. After an expedition into the dungeon, a chase, a fight and eventually a gambling game, upon which the party wagered the Crown for the life of one of their party members, he lost and was soon thereafter, captured. Now I was fine with this, I don't snatch victory from my party because I love my NPC's so much that they should win all the time. I'm good to my PC's and they are good to me and we'd all attest to that. But then the party druid, a member of the constabulary of Saltmarsh said that he wanted to take the Jack of Spades personally to jail, personally make sure he went to trial, personally make sure he hanged and died, not necessarily because of what the pirate's had done, but because he didn't want Jack coming back as a re-occuring enemy, his reasoning being that a re-occuring enemy from my last campaign, a cultist of Vecna by name of Rhodyle, the Goblin Thief, killed off the entire party between himself and a Devourer, despite the party being more than capable of finishing them both off. Now, understandably, I began to think very defensibly, I haven't said anything to my group, but inside I wasn't quite happy with good ol' Jack, a character that I feel I haven't even really properly introduced to the campaign (nothing beyond, "That cleric has the crown, get him!", whack twack.) just croaking, yet I get the feeling I may just annoy my players by having him escape somehow or get resurrected, like some other of my NPC's. I don't intend on him living forever, just to be able to use him for just a bit longer as a tool to further the campaign, and just to show a little bit of life, make him memorable, considering the work I put into him, instead of just another speed-bump towards then next level. Am I wrong? Am I too attached to some parts of my schemes and characters to the detriment of my players? Yes. flat out. But i think theres more, most problems at the gaming table go unspoken. The reason the druid gave is probably part of a deeper problem. Your constant use of recurring NPCs are grating your PCs, who feel the story is about your characters not theres. Remember your the DM, you control the world. The players control the story. I think I've explained it the best I can, what's your opinion as Dungeon Masters? Stop DMing. As a DM your love should be focused on the game not it's set pieces. Be a PC, it's clearly what you want. Let someone else take the GM chair so you can have your awesome character. Of course i then suggest you not make a backstory with which to bore your fellow players, but thats another topic altogether.
Mystic Lemur 05-25-07, 10:11 PM	This is a sign of either a highly repressed creative mind, or highly repressed scizophrenia. :D If giving you NPC's more depth and background than a Robert Jordan character is what makes you a happy DM, then have at it. If you constantly pull together bull**** reasons why the NPC lives through, gets resurrected, escapes, or didn't really die because the PC's haven't discovered every nuance, HOW is this better than a DMPC? I think the druid's idea was a good one. He metagamed the reasoning, but that's alright. If the dude gets rezzed later you will only be justifying his/her feelings. I wholeheartedly agree that what's good for the goose (PC's) is good for the gander (NPC's), but if the NPC's are really supposed to be that important, wouldn't they really be PC's?
Magrus 05-25-07, 10:20 PM	Yes, you are. You need to grasp that if you line up NPC's into combat with your player's characters, chances are one group will die. Chances are good the players will be VERY upset if you pull the escape route out for every important villain they face and have the villain rush back into battle later. Why? It steals their glory, their sense of accomplishment, and becomes redundant. It's like spending 3 months building a house, only for it to fall over. It isn't going to feel rewarding when you finish it the second time like it was the first time. You are just going to be grateful it's done and you can move on. If you switch to a new house, and that one falls over too, you are going to want to burn the materials you used, spit on the ashes, and curse the day you became a construction worker. You are ruining the fun for your players. That being said, you deserve to have just as much fun as they do. The DM should have fun. Switch gears, make NPC's that don't come into direct conflict with the party and flesh them out. Make a grumpy lord that causes them role play out verbal conflicts to have your PC depth. Have this lord send them on quests and spar in a contest of wits instead of in a sword fight. You won't have to worry about him dying, and the group can still rush off to kill the baddies, get the gold and return home to tell the grumpy lord to shove it.
Xavier_Silverthorn 05-25-07, 10:23 PM	Heres the quick and obvious question. How is your NPC's backstory relevant to the game? It's not, it doesn't matter so like all mundane things in the game leave it as background and ignore it. Just like you ignore the PCs eating unless something happens, or going to the bathroom, or fading to black when a PC gets lucky(if that happens in your games.). It's not important, treat it as such. Yes. flat out. But i think theres more, most problems at the gaming table go unspoken. The reason the druid gave is probably part of a deeper problem. Your constant use of recurring NPCs are grating your PCs, who feel the story is about your characters not theres. Remember your the DM, you control the world. The players control the story. Stop DMing. As a DM your love should be focused on the game not it's set pieces. Be a PC, it's clearly what you want. Let someone else take the GM chair so you can have your awesome character. Of course i then suggest you not make a backstory with which to bore your fellow players, but thats another topic altogether. Ouch, skathing, but true. I am a player in the druid's campaign actually, we run the two campaigns alternately each session, but the thing is, we all have quite detailed, though not overly extensive backstories for our character's. I can see your point, not all of my NPC's components are relevant to the game at hand, though I do like to have them. I guess it is very likely due to lack of "playerdom". Maybe I should cut down on the detail I give every NPC, and concentrate on the more important few...
Xavier_Silverthorn 05-25-07, 10:36 PM	You could make a few evil NPCs that are so horrible(in their actions) that you'll be glad to get to stop RPing them after a while....just a thought. You could also just make them a tiny bit stronger than the NPCs so its harder to kill them Well, to tell you the truth, I've made some pretty evil, horrible NPC's, but I never got tired of them, I liked them too much. Crazy, aren't I? When a deity wants to meddle in the prime material plane, they often send an aspect, ie a representative that shares many of their characteristics, to act on their behalf. The advantage is that, should the PCs kill the aspect, the deity is still okay and has plenty more aspects to send. This technique can work for more mundane NPCs as well. For every high-level NPC, work up one or more slightly-less-powerful offsiders, sidekicks or lieutenants that can interact with the PCs on the NPC's behalf. It is entirely believable that these representatives would share most of the personality traits of the NPC they work for. Nyeh, that's the thing, I make my NPC's too detailed, too unique, underlings and the ultimate overlings in my campaign tend to be very different and varied, probably too different and varied. This is a sign of either a highly repressed creative mind, or highly repressed scizophrenia. :D If giving you NPC's more depth and background than a Robert Jordan character is what makes you a happy DM, then have at it. If you constantly pull together bull**** reasons why the NPC lives through, gets resurrected, escapes, or didn't really die because the PC's haven't discovered every nuance, HOW is this better than a DMPC? I think the druid's idea was a good one. He metagamed the reasoning, but that's alright. If the dude gets rezzed later you will only be justifying his/her feelings. I wholeheartedly agree that what's good for the goose (PC's) is good for the gander (NPC's), but if the NPC's are really supposed to be that important, wouldn't they really be PC's? Ha ha ha! :D You're probably right on all accounts. Yes, you are. You need to grasp that if you line up NPC's into combat with your player's characters, chances are one group will die. Chances are good the players will be VERY upset if you pull the escape route out for every important villain they face and have the villain rush back into battle later. Why? It steals their glory, their sense of accomplishment, and becomes redundant. It's like spending 3 months building a house, only for it to fall over. It isn't going to feel rewarding when you finish it the second time like it was the first time. You are just going to be grateful it's done and you can move on. If you switch to a new house, and that one falls over too, you are going to want to burn the materials you used, spit on the ashes, and curse the day you became a construction worker. You are ruining the fun for your players. That being said, you deserve to have just as much fun as they do. The DM should have fun. Switch gears, make NPC's that don't come into direct conflict with the party and flesh them out. Make a grumpy lord that causes them role play out verbal conflicts to have your PC depth. Have this lord send them on quests and spar in a contest of wits instead of in a sword fight. You won't have to worry about him dying, and the group can still rush off to kill the baddies, get the gold and return home to tell the grumpy lord to shove it. Geez, you're right. I just realised that I do tend to put more effort into combatant, enemy NPC's than most any other type. That's probably a good idea. I mean, ultimately, that's what bad guys are there for right? To be defeated. Hmmm... Right. Thanks for the help and advice, I think you've hit the final nail in this coffin. Your opinions have been well appreciated, and I'm positive that they'll contribute to the improvement of my campaign. Thanks for everything everyone. :D
gimby 05-25-07, 10:42 PM	There is another option- if your highly detailed NPC is one-shotted before they find out his name, recycle him. File off the serial numbers, scratch some new ones on and reintroduce them. Repeat until satisfied or bored.
Lina_Inverse 05-25-07, 10:44 PM	The DM should have fun. The only fun a DM should have is the fun of making others happy. Asking for any more is being selfish. Your there to benefit your players, and nothing else. I have eternal DM status, So I'm allowed to set that as my DM judging standard without being a jerk.(Not that I'm not a jerk, just not about this.)
Magrus 05-25-07, 10:44 PM	Welcome, and good luck! :D @ Lina Inverse, I don't believe that. Sometimes, the DM needs to be able to have fun in and of itself with the game. It's great to enjoy providing fun for others, but that's not right to only have that as a form of enjoyment, and it's selfish on the part of the players to expect it, completely, horribly selfish. It IS ok for the DM to just have fun in the game without the players having fun once in a while. Not often, and preferably while the players are having fun as well. Still, sometimes the DM needs a kick out of the game just to be able to keep going without becoming burned out.
Lina_Inverse 05-25-07, 10:51 PM	@ Lina Inverse, I don't believe that. Sometimes, the DM needs to be able to have fun in and of itself with the game. It's great to enjoy providing fun for others, but that's not right to only have that as a form of enjoyment, and it's selfish on the part of the players to expect it, completely, horribly selfish. It IS ok for the DM to just have fun in the game without the players having fun once in a while. Not often, and preferably while the players are having fun as well. Still, sometimes the DM needs a kick out of the game just to be able to keep going without becoming burned out. It would be selfish of me to expect it as a player. But i expect it as a fellow DM. Of course all my expectations in everything are so ridiculously high as to be unobtainable, but thats why they make such wonderful expectations eh?
Magrus 05-25-07, 10:57 PM	It would be selfish of me to expect it as a player. But i expect it as a fellow DM. Of course all my expectations in everything are so ridiculously high as to be unobtainable, but thats why they make such wonderful expectations eh? That sounds like my view on having a girlfriend. I get patted on the head for them, but that's about it. Good luck with that one. I can't find the energy to do that with DM'ing as well. It's my hobby, my downtime for having fun. Not a life-long commitment. :P
Optimized_Commoner 05-26-07, 02:25 AM	I love my NPCs. I've had characters who have appeared on camera for about 5 minutes, who I've given months of backstory to. Sometimes when I'm not up to anything else I'll idly wonder what a particular NPC is up to and figure out a bit more about that NPC. It really amuses my players sometimes when they ask me something like "so, what has Gethran been up to since we last saw him" and I fill them in on exactly what he's done and where he is now without a moment's pause. I think this is great, because it adds the sense of a dynamic and real world where there are plenty of things happening in other places. The key to stopping this from being a problem is to be brutal towards your "little darlings". If the story calls for your NPC to die, then they should die. Never use your powers to protect them, just run them realistically. By now, if you're that attached to them you should know exactly what they can do and what their personality is like so it won't be hard.
nickcan 05-26-07, 03:12 AM	"All your NPC's suck and they are all going to die." It was good advice when I first heard it and it's still good advice now. Sure make them cool, make them fun, and always be prepared for their death. Also, if you enjoy creating the little guys, enjoy killing them. Nothing is more fun the killing off NPC's in a graphic and disgusting manner. Especially right before a major fight. The BBEG steps out and kills trusted friend Bill the Knight with a wave of his hand before turning to the party. Now they are scared!
Optimized_Commoner 05-26-07, 05:29 AM	Also, if you enjoy creating the little guys, enjoy killing them. Nothing is more fun the killing off NPC's in a graphic and disgusting manner. Especially right before a major fight. The BBEG steps out and kills trusted friend Bill the Knight with a wave of his hand before turning to the party. Now they are scared! As much as I'm against people having "precious NPCs" that they won't let any harm come to, I think you need to be fair and realistic with them as well. The BBEG can't just wave a hand and kill them, because there are saving throws and actions and entire combat and magic systems devoted to this.
itwasntme 05-26-07, 05:55 AM	While the game may mean all about the PC it dosnt mean they are what all the npc commenors are talking about just make names of most of the NPC and a little basic infomation about them if players show an interust in an NPC then you start makeing that one special after all there are other Adventures out there and i tend to make names up for them (And thats about it) i give Vage infomation so that way i can dart around anywhere within that Vage infomation you could state "A Warrior of Type adventure is ..." and his class could fall anywhere from Monk Fighter Barbian or any one that is useoly or can be more then lilky a Warrior type person just like what most Tarrot card readers do give VAGE Infomation and let the other people make up there own story about it but in truth its not even half the time clouse to what they think or sounds like only MMORGP or boss's of other types (Maybe 2nd in commands) Deserve any background and care like you give them i useoly tend to make 1 maybe more creatures/NPC realy annoy the players and its a name they need to remember currently i have 2 NPC the players have run across at least once and faild to kill and may prove to be a challangeing aspect later on (A Were Rat Scor and a Vampire Drow Monk) besides that the only NPC name they hear are shop keepers maybe the village mayor and other people that i just leave on a Vage responce a good example of leaveing NPC nothing more then just people who walk around intill show of interust is shown is in one game my players where playing in a casino and one person who seemed to keep winning money from them left later they meet the same person on a ship and was helping them defend it agest pirate attacks this is when my players showed intust in him and i just went with the infomation they had and made him into an NPC character of some importance later on (he was just going to be a normol NPC that didnt mean anything special)
nickcan 05-26-07, 08:39 AM	As much as I'm against people having "precious NPCs" that they won't let any harm come to, I think you need to be fair and realistic with them as well. The BBEG can't just wave a hand and kill them, because there are saving throws and actions and entire combat and magic systems devoted to this. Oh, I know. The guy just casted "slay living" and the npc failed his save. But it's all in how you describe it. Casting a save-or-die spell and having the npc fail is not as interesting a description as just waving a hand and killing a guy. The mechanic is there, but if you can really freak out the players take the description and have fun with it.
Loftower 05-26-07, 12:36 PM	First, the problem that you have is much better than the reverse: having nameless, faceless NPCs. I hope this is not what other posters are advocating by reducing the backstories. I suppose if your style of play doesn’t involve much roleplay, it’s fine. Yes, you have a problem; don’t ignore it. The meta-gaming druid is a big warning sign. I would work on the following: 1) Spend more time on interesting NPCs that the party probably won’t want to kill. Neglecting Tom, Dick, and Barkeep to concentrate on the “bad guys” is probably a mistake. An interesting tailor can be fun to run. My players still occasionally anguish about tricking an armorer out of an expensive suit of armor, even though they rescued his daughter. They hate the tax collectors and distain some slovenly guardsmen. They befriended a curmudgeonly retired adventurer, and cheered for an intrepid spy (who was working against the common enemy). All of these characters can recur without cheating the players of their victories. 2) Introduce your favorite villains to the campaign when they aren’t in danger from the PCs. They may hear about Warg’s ambition from a deserter or a survivor. A retired sailor may spin yarns about the Jack of Spades. In my campaign one of the “bad guys” was defeated, but not destroyed, by friends of the PCs, so they got a bunch of information on him but they only know him by reputation. 3) Make the opposed NPCs strong enough so that the PCs need the dirt on them to defeat them. This is trickier, and it’s not fair to just dump on the players if they’re not used to it. If the only hope that the PCs have of defeating Warg One-Eye is by gaining the assistance of Kraag the Deceiver then they’re going to learn a lot more about your NPCs.
Xavier_Silverthorn 05-26-07, 08:25 PM	Thanks everyone, all of these ideas are helping me a lot so far. I especially liked Loftower's 2nd idea. That makes a lot of sense. And on the whole issue Lina Inverse just brought up. I respect your opinion on the matter, Lina, you sound like a very selfless person, which is a quality most admirable to find in a being, but I'm sorry to say that I have to disagree. Sorry if I don't match up to your expectations by simply having fun along with my players, but the way I see it, you just basically degraded yourself and the rest of us DM's from Dungeon Masters to Dungeon Slaves. In a playing group, the DM has undoubtedly the most work to put in. Now I don't personally know how much work you put into DMing but the way I see it, this is the way it should go. To begin with S/he must create an entire world, nay universe, from scratch. Imagining, creating, writing, filing, balancing, harmonising, populating etc. It takes a lot of work. And even after all that effort in creating the campaign setting, the work has only just begun, considering you still have to run it! Player's need only concern themselves with a single character sheet. One, two, maybe four pages tops? One character in the storyline. You, the DM on the other hand, must not only concern yourself with every other character in the world you've created, but also, the world itself. The player's need these few sheets of paper and one book, the PHB. They need only concern rules and actions that govern their single character. You, on the other hand need many books, a mountain of notes, need to be well versed in every rule, every action, every re-action. You must prepare hours in advance to create a good game. The player's need only think for about a minute on their way over to the Gamehall on what magical trinket he will buy on a visit to the next town that the DM has already painstakingly pre-made, pre-written, pre-sculpted to their benefit, filling it with all manner of wondrous and mundane features for their group to discover. Now, the DM has made all this effort, to create this world, his/her world, to their benefit, to their enjoyment. The DM has the right to enjoy it too. And that's what I do. I'm not a machine, nor slave to my players. If my group played under your DM strategy, we wouldn't be playing DnD with a DM at all, we'd be playing a computer game over the internet. To say that enjoying being a DM beyond simply benefitting others enjoyment is selfish is to reduce and demean a DM to little else than a machine or endentured servant. Rant over. Long-winded I know, but I like to get my point across. :D
Entavias 05-26-07, 09:16 PM	Make his followers avenge him, have him have an apprentice of types who carries on his legacy
Miss_Yersinia 05-26-07, 09:26 PM	Thanks everyone, all of these ideas are helping me a lot so far. I especially liked Loftower's 2nd idea. That makes a lot of sense. Another tip - if you're too attached to your NPCs, try to write. Write your short stories, novels and so on to get that creative, character-driven urges out of your system. Or do something similarly creative, like painting. :)
stargate525 05-26-07, 09:34 PM	Well, in this particular situation, your druid gave you a very good out. She personally wants to see the justice system go through, so roleplay it out. Devote an entire session to this guy's attempts at getting out of the situation.