Amature DM campaign assesment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Amature DM campaign assesment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kitzan Ulvatiz
12-12-04, 02:05 AM In my current group I am to DM next. This will be my first time doing a large adventure. Using the player assistance techniques to create a campaign mine came out extreamly symbolic,hard to comprehend, and misleading. I think it's greate but i would like to ask some oppinons and also ask for ideas.
My general outline looks like this:
Tying in with our current campaign(destroying almost all the yaun ti) after having destroyed the yaun ti and their (demi?)god (name i dont know) and my paladin having started his quest for True Paladin hood (reference my only PrC its in the compendium) a hagard stranger approcahes my group. The stranger is a descendant from an ancient race the last of his kind. His race was entrusted with a device that was created by an equivalently more ancient race which could litterlay manipulate time. Long before our group began crusading to destroy the yaun ti they sent a very skilled raiding party out to mechanus where the artifact was. At this point it is necisary to note that them Ranger in our group will have become essential the "True Ranger" a chosen of ehlonna(sp?). When the yaun ti returened with the artifact the gods Ehlonna and Heronius(my paladins god) smote the artifact scattering it throught the planes. One of these landed in a nearby volcano which has special properties(dust that cast's gate) and was sent back in time through a combination of the arftifacts residual magic, the force of the smigthing, and the volcano. In order to establish why "Guide" picks our group i say that the True Paladin of heronius(my paladin) and the Natures Guardian(ranger) of Ehlonna are phrophecized to be the ones capable of reasembelling the artifact. (The group will be at least 12 level before starting this)
Despite the small loop holes and many misspellings on my part how does that general begging look? Anything i might want to change? There are more details but my finger hurt(i'm typing on a crappy keyboard).
some of the current planes include
Limbo
The elemental plane of water
The Nine Hells
That prision plane(dont have PhB or DMg with me)
Arcadia
there are others i just forgete.
Kitzan Ulvatiz
12-12-04, 11:01 PM :bump: please anyone? :weep: if it's illegiable please tell me and i will redo it. (still on bad computer)
Loopy
12-12-04, 11:09 PM It sounds like you put a lot of work into it. Plan ahead and don't give away too much too soon. I know it's hard to keep everything all bottled up inside, but keep your players on their toes. You don't want to give away the whole plaot in the first adventure.

=A=
Kitzan Ulvatiz
12-12-04, 11:33 PM yeah that was just a general overview it's not like im going to tell them that.
wildduck
12-13-04, 12:05 AM I think the plotline is a fine idea. Super powerful artifact broken into many pieces that must be reassembled isn’t an original idea per se, but the adventures they need to go on to get the pieces are what really matters (and as you haven't mentioned what they will need to do to get the pieces, I am not sure what those adventures will be like).

There is one glaring problem that I see. Your character (presumable the DMPC) being part of a prophesy that the entire campaign hinges on. Even if the ranger is also part of it, I really have problems when a DM plays his own character in a campaign and I think it is ten times worse if his own character is the focal point of the game. Now, from what I gather in your post, your group likes to play round robin, where the party always stays the same, but the DMs change. My best advice for this personally is to omit your character from the campaign. If you love your paladin that is great, but don't play him when you are DMing, it just spells all kinds of problems. Short of that, if you insist on including your own character, I think that it is essential that they not take an important role. Sure they can be there and add some flavor to the roleplaying, and/or take an active roll in combat, but they should not be the Leader, or even an "important character."

So, find a way to take your pally out of the spotlight and I think you have a fine idea. Leave him in there and you are shooting for a disaster. If this doesn't make sense to you, do a search on this board for DMPC and see what has already been posted regarding this.
tackleberry
12-13-04, 07:33 AM i agree with wildduck - the plot itself is a very nice story, very epic but NPCs should take a very background supportting role (as they always should) the focus should deffinately be on the pcs.
pcs mentioned in prophecy is a worry as all it takes is one too get him/herself killed and thats the whole plot stuffed.
its best to make their position in the prophecy as tenuous as possible though its difficult, as it is dead cool to have a pc linked to some ancient self fulfilling prophecy and still leave their destiny unwritten.
But, due to the fact that players are always going to do something you never thought of, it will be ahrd work to steer the character into their destiny (as prophesised) without railroading them.
Seer: "You are destined to recover the peices of the artefact young ranger!"
Ranger: "do you know what? i would rather stay at home and have a nice cup of tea with my feet up infront of a warm fire"
Seer: "erm..."

the re-assembling the artefact plot isnt very original but the very nature of the artefact and the locations of the pieces outweigh this cliche.
also, the epic and mythical history behind the artefact being broken is very nice.
was_fired
12-13-04, 08:17 AM Nice story, but you made three glaring errors which have already been pointed out.

1. You have a DMPC. Unless it is only the two of you this is a very bad thing.

2. You made your DMPC vital to the plot. The players aren't there to watch you pleasure yourself with an uber character who is destined to save the world. If you want your character to be the focus of the story in a world you control write a book.

3. You made a single PC vital to the plot. It is best to avoid this. This can be corrected by changing it to something along the lines of, "One who stands along your rank is destined to..." then the whole group will need to avoid the adventure and it will not generate imense feelings of ego between the players.
psionichamster
12-13-04, 09:23 AM <text removed at OP's request>
Kitzan Ulvatiz
12-13-04, 06:53 PM skimmed these posts and saw one word that i knew would come up DMPC. The furotunate thing that i blatantly forgot to metnion is that my PC wont comeinto play untill the very very end of my adventure because he will be off becoming true paladin. (solo adventure that will take almost untill the end of mine). Since by the point that my paladin (Steve) joins the group they will be just about to fully understand their purpose they will be fairly lineraly locked into the game play so i should have to worry about myself meta gaming any treasures or anything. Also the ranger has decided that he will double check any action i take to see if it is Stevelike.
As for other such comments such as the very defined terms of the phrophecy this is used as a catch all to keep our Wizard (who is a bit of a power gamer but we all love him anyways) from getting his grubby little hands on the artifact. Also the very nature of the adventure is that in fact time travel becomes a key element and as such the god's cannot change the way the events are supposed to happen only encourage them to happen. (assuming that the god's transend the effects of time which i always assume)
I havent defined the adventures very much yet but some will be diplomatic to challenge the meager role playing in my group and some will be very battle oriented(a tournament on the battlefeilds of ysgard). Guide who will be a rather mystical like npc who requires the assistance of the npc's will have already for the most part narrowed down the search of the planes so they dont have to treck across every single freaking plane. My group doesnt improv much but if they do i can wing it i think and i still have about a year to do this. Now that you all have responded to this i'm going to leave my posts for 1 day from now and then i'm going to delete them all for my campaigns sake and i would appreciate if you would be kind enough to. (our powergamer occasionaly reads these boards)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kitzan Ulvatiz 12-12-04, 02:05 AM	In my current group I am to DM next. This will be my first time doing a large adventure. Using the player assistance techniques to create a campaign mine came out extreamly symbolic,hard to comprehend, and misleading. I think it's greate but i would like to ask some oppinons and also ask for ideas. My general outline looks like this: Tying in with our current campaign(destroying almost all the yaun ti) after having destroyed the yaun ti and their (demi?)god (name i dont know) and my paladin having started his quest for True Paladin hood (reference my only PrC its in the compendium) a hagard stranger approcahes my group. The stranger is a descendant from an ancient race the last of his kind. His race was entrusted with a device that was created by an equivalently more ancient race which could litterlay manipulate time. Long before our group began crusading to destroy the yaun ti they sent a very skilled raiding party out to mechanus where the artifact was. At this point it is necisary to note that them Ranger in our group will have become essential the "True Ranger" a chosen of ehlonna(sp?). When the yaun ti returened with the artifact the gods Ehlonna and Heronius(my paladins god) smote the artifact scattering it throught the planes. One of these landed in a nearby volcano which has special properties(dust that cast's gate) and was sent back in time through a combination of the arftifacts residual magic, the force of the smigthing, and the volcano. In order to establish why "Guide" picks our group i say that the True Paladin of heronius(my paladin) and the Natures Guardian(ranger) of Ehlonna are phrophecized to be the ones capable of reasembelling the artifact. (The group will be at least 12 level before starting this) Despite the small loop holes and many misspellings on my part how does that general begging look? Anything i might want to change? There are more details but my finger hurt(i'm typing on a crappy keyboard). some of the current planes include Limbo The elemental plane of water The Nine Hells That prision plane(dont have PhB or DMg with me) Arcadia there are others i just forgete.
Kitzan Ulvatiz 12-12-04, 11:01 PM	:bump: please anyone? :weep: if it's illegiable please tell me and i will redo it. (still on bad computer)
Loopy 12-12-04, 11:09 PM	It sounds like you put a lot of work into it. Plan ahead and don't give away too much too soon. I know it's hard to keep everything all bottled up inside, but keep your players on their toes. You don't want to give away the whole plaot in the first adventure. =A=
Kitzan Ulvatiz 12-12-04, 11:33 PM	yeah that was just a general overview it's not like im going to tell them that.
wildduck 12-13-04, 12:05 AM	I think the plotline is a fine idea. Super powerful artifact broken into many pieces that must be reassembled isn’t an original idea per se, but the adventures they need to go on to get the pieces are what really matters (and as you haven't mentioned what they will need to do to get the pieces, I am not sure what those adventures will be like). There is one glaring problem that I see. Your character (presumable the DMPC) being part of a prophesy that the entire campaign hinges on. Even if the ranger is also part of it, I really have problems when a DM plays his own character in a campaign and I think it is ten times worse if his own character is the focal point of the game. Now, from what I gather in your post, your group likes to play round robin, where the party always stays the same, but the DMs change. My best advice for this personally is to omit your character from the campaign. If you love your paladin that is great, but don't play him when you are DMing, it just spells all kinds of problems. Short of that, if you insist on including your own character, I think that it is essential that they not take an important role. Sure they can be there and add some flavor to the roleplaying, and/or take an active roll in combat, but they should not be the Leader, or even an "important character." So, find a way to take your pally out of the spotlight and I think you have a fine idea. Leave him in there and you are shooting for a disaster. If this doesn't make sense to you, do a search on this board for DMPC and see what has already been posted regarding this.
tackleberry 12-13-04, 07:33 AM	i agree with wildduck - the plot itself is a very nice story, very epic but NPCs should take a very background supportting role (as they always should) the focus should deffinately be on the pcs. pcs mentioned in prophecy is a worry as all it takes is one too get him/herself killed and thats the whole plot stuffed. its best to make their position in the prophecy as tenuous as possible though its difficult, as it is dead cool to have a pc linked to some ancient self fulfilling prophecy and still leave their destiny unwritten. But, due to the fact that players are always going to do something you never thought of, it will be ahrd work to steer the character into their destiny (as prophesised) without railroading them. Seer: "You are destined to recover the peices of the artefact young ranger!" Ranger: "do you know what? i would rather stay at home and have a nice cup of tea with my feet up infront of a warm fire" Seer: "erm..." the re-assembling the artefact plot isnt very original but the very nature of the artefact and the locations of the pieces outweigh this cliche. also, the epic and mythical history behind the artefact being broken is very nice.
was_fired 12-13-04, 08:17 AM	Nice story, but you made three glaring errors which have already been pointed out. 1. You have a DMPC. Unless it is only the two of you this is a very bad thing. 2. You made your DMPC vital to the plot. The players aren't there to watch you pleasure yourself with an uber character who is destined to save the world. If you want your character to be the focus of the story in a world you control write a book. 3. You made a single PC vital to the plot. It is best to avoid this. This can be corrected by changing it to something along the lines of, "One who stands along your rank is destined to..." then the whole group will need to avoid the adventure and it will not generate imense feelings of ego between the players.
psionichamster 12-13-04, 09:23 AM	<text removed at OP's request>
Kitzan Ulvatiz 12-13-04, 06:53 PM	skimmed these posts and saw one word that i knew would come up DMPC. The furotunate thing that i blatantly forgot to metnion is that my PC wont comeinto play untill the very very end of my adventure because he will be off becoming true paladin. (solo adventure that will take almost untill the end of mine). Since by the point that my paladin (Steve) joins the group they will be just about to fully understand their purpose they will be fairly lineraly locked into the game play so i should have to worry about myself meta gaming any treasures or anything. Also the ranger has decided that he will double check any action i take to see if it is Stevelike. As for other such comments such as the very defined terms of the phrophecy this is used as a catch all to keep our Wizard (who is a bit of a power gamer but we all love him anyways) from getting his grubby little hands on the artifact. Also the very nature of the adventure is that in fact time travel becomes a key element and as such the god's cannot change the way the events are supposed to happen only encourage them to happen. (assuming that the god's transend the effects of time which i always assume) I havent defined the adventures very much yet but some will be diplomatic to challenge the meager role playing in my group and some will be very battle oriented(a tournament on the battlefeilds of ysgard). Guide who will be a rather mystical like npc who requires the assistance of the npc's will have already for the most part narrowed down the search of the planes so they dont have to treck across every single freaking plane. My group doesnt improv much but if they do i can wing it i think and i still have about a year to do this. Now that you all have responded to this i'm going to leave my posts for 1 day from now and then i'm going to delete them all for my campaigns sake and i would appreciate if you would be kind enough to. (our powergamer occasionaly reads these boards)