Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fenrisvulfe02 11-07-03, 02:19 AM	I've been considering running a campaign where the PCs begin with next to no knowledge of themselves, no memory of their life, history, names, identity, relationships, save for some vague and random images they experience in a dream just before waking up. The players themselves would write up these dreams and could use them to imply to some extent what kinds of things their character has/may have been through, what kind of place they could've been from, etc. Their personality and alignment would be determined entirely by in-game RP, and their actual life histories would be discovered over time. I'm not certain exactly how I'd manage it, and I can see some problems arising from the apparently greater amount of DM control over character history here, but I imagine it would involve me taking the implied direction the PCs want their characters to go, based upon their dream and their actions, and dub it into specifics. With the odd twist here and there. I think it would make an interesting experience, encourage roleplaying and playing an alignment instead of assuming it, and be a very interesting dynamic, especially for a game whose mood takes some hints from Call of Cthulu and Vampire Hunter D. :P However, I'd also like to extend the amnesia to the skills they remember as well as their memories. I'm considering donig something like this: characters begin at level five, and will retain base saves, BAB, skills, feats gained at first level and certain class abilities. The idea is that certain skills/abilities are ingrained well enough into their consciousness/memory that they were not wiped out. Physical and mechanical abilities are especially well retained as IRL different parts of the brain handle these aspects. However, they would not remember any feats gained past 1st level, arcane spells past 0th level (sorc/bard), any wizard spells at all save those memorized via Spell Mastery (all items save the clothes on their backs have been lost), all druid spells save those gained at level 0, all cleric spells save spontaneous heal/inflict and domain spells, and that pretty much sums it up. I would appreciate comments and suggestions on pretty much anything here, from the RP aspect to the system I've mentioned, however I'm particularly interested in whether or not there is anything I'd be better off having the PCs remember/forget and have overlooked, and how I have the PCs start remembering their abilities anyway. I'd certainly like them to remember all of their abilities much faster htan the rest of themselves, as it'd be annoying to have 5th level characters that aren't going anywhere or have holes in their progression. I've considered using a kind of 'XP debt' system, where the characters are effectively level 5 but need to regain XP to remember certain feats, skills, etc. I'm also considering using a different system for regaining spells... mages would start by finding a blank spellbook or someone else's spellbook, most likely, and then just choose another two spells per level as usual. However, i'll have to work out a way for Druids, Clerics, Bards and Sorcs to regain theirs. I'd probably have Druids and Clerics regain them as they resolve XP debt... however I'd kind of like to do something with sorcs/bards where they can 'awaken' spells. Right now, the idea is vague and I have a hard time explaining the concept, but essentially it involves the spell within them being brought out through certain unusual circumstances. How I'll do this, I'm not quite sure, but in short I'd like to do something with the system that adds some sense of discovery to learning/relearnign spells. Likewise, I've also considered finding a way, perhaps similar, to allow sorcs to pursue additional spells, and perhaps even allow Druids to learn different spells depending upon the regions they pass through. Anyway, I'd appreciate some feedback/suggestions on any of this so I can refine things somewhat... thanks. :P
illiterate 11-07-03, 04:20 AM	for bonus fun, make their characters for them, start them with no equipment, and let them figure out through experience what they are actually able to. "Uh.. I'll try and pick the lock" "Roll d20 and add 12" "Hey! I'm a rogue!"
Gingerbread Guy 11-07-03, 05:50 AM	Hiho, I'm currently in the middle of running just such a game. I made the character sheets up myself, each one a high-level whatever they are. They all awoke in a ruined temple to Wee Jass, devoid of memory and naked as the day they were born.. only, each of them is in their twenties [well, except for the elf, heh]. For one, this is a great way to link the characters together - they're all in the same boat, and they can't deny the possibility that they have something to do with each other's past. My players have no idea why they lost their memories, and I'm not going to reveal the answer here incase they're reading this. However, I can help you come up with a lot of reasons. A spell gone wrong, victims of a creature that eats memories, cultists devoted to a god or goddess of knowledge or innocence [who either performed a ceremony on purpose or were the victims of one], or perhaps the location in which they awoke is to blame. What I'm doing is giving the characters a chance at each level to pursue a new class, or pursue their old life. If they chose to pursue their old life, I give them the next class level. Otherwise, they're welcome to become new people. This gives them a little more freedom to be whatever they like, and its interesting to me to see their characters evolve in a totally different direction from what they once were. There arises an issue of how to deal with personality. What I chose to do was let them roleplay their own personalities without defining an alignment. I still haven't asked them for an alignment, but eventually I will get them to look back at what they've done and how they've acted, and decide on an alignment. Optionally, you could force an alignment on them as well, but I find that too restrictive. ~Ginger
fenrisvulfe02 11-08-03, 03:54 PM	First, I'd like to thank you for replying. Secondly... I'm not too sure I want to really make my players' characters for them, as I'd like to give them SOME ability to define who they were and certainly every ability to define who they are. I have to admit, though, the idea of having them discover what their capabilities are as they play is a very interesting idea... I think, however, I'd have to find some players first and discuss it with them. I'll probably try to strike a balance between pre-gen and not... such as, perhaps, determining what class the character is from the dream they remember... but I'll have to think it over some. Good suggestion, illiterate. And, Gingerbread Guy: I also kind of like the idea of the characters having a choice between pursuing their old life and a new one. It's definitely a consideration... however I'm not sure how I'm going to fit it in, again. The easiest way to do that would be to start the characters off at a low level, having essentially lost XP in the process. However, the idea I had is that they retained all or most of their capabilities, just all but the most intrinsic they've dissociated for one reason or another. This means they're pretty much inevitably going to remember everything... or could. I'll just have to see about this part... As for alignment... I don't know if I'd determine their previous alignment myself or not. Their current alignment, certainly, would be determined entirely by their actions. Their previous alignment, I'm not sure... however, I probably would determine it based upon their dream if nothing else. And as for the reason they lost their memory... thanks, but I think I'll be able to take care of that aspect well enough myself. I don't know exactly why yet, but I have a general idea of the story and when/if that becomes more fully developed, I should be able to figure out how this came to be. I'm pretty much interested in how I can pull this off in a gameplay/gamebalance sense, and how the ideas I've already presented would work out or could be improved. Thanks, however, for your suggestions. :p
MinusInnocence 11-08-03, 10:11 PM	Why do they have to be 5th level? The largest part of your dilemma concerned how you're going to simulate people who are obviously Billy Badasses, and yet don't know what they are doing or who they are (were). Just start them at 1st level. Conceivably, the average human being, regardless of class, comes "of age" between the ages of 15 and 20... that's a whole lot of stuff to have forgotten and have to make up. Starting them higher than 1st level seems to simulate the assumption that your life doesn't begin until the campaign does, which simply isn't the case. I know plenty of people in the real world who aren't adventurers; indeed, who are probably 1st level Commoners by D&D standards; but who have incredible and amazing stories to tell about how they grew up, the people they knew, who they have become, etc. Now, as far as people needing items... perhaps they wake up in a FARMER'S field. And he finds them, and takes care of them.. they work off their debt to him doing chores around the house or whatever, because he'll give them enough coin to do stuff. Perhaps something about this particular town makes them very inclined to help the needy.. or, maybe just THESE needy. Y'know, "Oh thank goodness you've arrived!" And figuring out why everyone knows them/wants to know them could be an adventure in itself. Maybe they were prophecied to come and ease the ills of these people, or maybe absolutely nothing of interest ever happens here, so they are grateful for something odd (albeit suspicious; a bunch of naked people in the cornfield, claiming not to know who they are? Probably a bunch of crazy kids out after a night of too much mead!) to take their minds off the mediocrity.
Sildatorak 11-08-03, 10:27 PM	I think that if you are going to limit spell casting to level 0 spells at first you should also restrict starting BAB's to +1, otherwise your warrior types loose almost nothing and your wizard types loose almost everything. An idea for awakening the spells of sorcerers is that when a spell of a given school and level is cast on them, they recall the spells of the same school and level if they pass a DC 15+spell level will save. You might also want to have one of their first oponents be a wizard of similar level so that the wiz can get a spellbook and get set up again. I like this campaign idea, but I think that you need to get spells back quickly or else a (insert weak enemy here) or two could take out the party's wizard easily (NO! That was my last ray of frost, what do you mean he's still alive!).
fenrisvulfe02 11-10-03, 02:57 PM	Originally posted by MinusInnocence Why do they have to be 5th level? The largest part of your dilemma concerned how you're going to simulate people who are obviously Billy Badasses, and yet don't know what they are doing or who they are (were). Just start them at 1st level. Conceivably, the average human being, regardless of class, comes "of age" between the ages of 15 and 20... that's a whole lot of stuff to have forgotten and have to make up. Starting them higher than 1st level seems to simulate the assumption that your life doesn't begin until the campaign does, which simply isn't the case. I don't quite catch your meaning here... you're saying that starting them at a higher level indicates their life doesn't start until the campaign does, but as it would indicate they have more experience wouldn't it actually serve to indicate they had a life before the campaign? Indeed, that's why I'd like to start them at level five: so that they know they have had some experience, were once reasonably powerful, as you say, but have lost something. One reason I'm not too fond of just starting them off at first level is that then there's no difference between who they are at the start and who they were when they just started out. By starting them out at level five but with gaps in their functional knowledge they get the impression that they once were something, but now they need to relearn some things. It serves to emphasize the loss. Originally posted by Sildatorak I think that if you are going to limit spell casting to level 0 spells at first you should also restrict starting BAB's to +1, otherwise your warrior types loose almost nothing and your wizard types loose almost everything. You do have a point here... Wizard's aren't such a problem because they can remember spells by Spell Mastery, and once they get a hold of just about any spellbook they're back on track. However, Sorcs, Bards, etc. are definitely screwed... I'll probably keep Clerics where they are spellcasting-wise (retaining domain spells, domain abilities, turning undead and spontaneous cure/influct is a pretty good deal), though I guess I could change it so that Sorcs/Bards remember a number of spells equal to their Charisma modifiers... that way, they'd remember fewer, but more useful spells. Druids... might as well just keep them as they are, as they do have Wild Shape and all that. I will probably have to do something about fighter-type classes, however, since maintaining BAB is a boon for them. I don't really want to eliminate their BAB altogether, as it seems like BAB would be much harder to forget and it reminds you that you [i]should/[i] be more powerful, but it is a consideration. Fighters are the main reason I'm only allowing, at first, feats gained at level 1, however to balance things out more with, say Barbarians, Rangers and Paladins I'll have to see about limiting class abilities. The idea about recognizing spells cast on them isn't a bad idea... I was going for something more mystical, but this idea seems like it'd be easier to carry out. I think I'll incorporate this somehow... thanks. ^_^