Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prince_of_Parkness 11-08-07, 04:58 PM	I read this thread about whether or not an LA character can loot corpses. This made me think of starting this thread. Your a king, you have your own kingdom. You have peasants and other citizens you control, lords you assosiate with, advisors to help you out and ally kings/queens/lords/whatevers. Thats all good, but there are also another party: adventurers. They have impressive powers and roam the kingdom as they will. They have their uses acting as odd job specialists, fancy mercenaries essentually. What do you do? Theres too many of them to ban them and you cant waste resources on them, but how can you put a leesh on them? Answer, you and many other kings hold a comference and come up with something to set the boundries on exactly what they can do. From that meeting spawned the Adventurer's Rights. Now all I need is all the points on it. This is all I got so far: 1. Looting: All adventurers retain the right to keep any treaure they find on dead bodies of non-public or royal personall or monster they kill. The actual killing may be illigal, but assuming it isnt they may keep all its treasures, assuming also it has no obvios sentimental value and taking it will not cripple the local economy. 2. For the purpose of treatment, adventurers are by default nueterally ranked foreigh guessed. They have no specific obligations to the royal house because of their rank (working class must do what ever they are told to do by any lord/lady) and no special privilages (lords/ladies reciev automatic accomidation at towns they visit ect.) They are still bound by the countries law. Just wondering what other important things you can come up with
DM_Shonuff 11-08-07, 05:59 PM	depending on the "type" of king.. 3. Any and all land grants, writs of nobility, and other official documents that claim land, title or property will be handed over to the closest Royal appointed official, and not to be claimed by the finder of said documents. (can't have chaotic neutral rogues running into small town and stealing land deeds now, can we?) 4. The Adventurer has the right to defend himself with any and all means while in the regional lands of the King. Magic, Psionics and even steel is allowed by law, to defend one's self, except when being confronted with Royal appointed officials, and other agents of the Court. 5. "Reperio of supellectilis miseratio" or the Finders Goods Tax. Any adventurer found with sums of gold or treasures that is in excess of 3,001 gold piece value, will be asked to tithe to the kingdom and help pay reparation to buildings, town roads, and bridge maintenances. If said adventurer does not offer freely gold allowed to be kept by his royal highness's graciousness, then when said adventurer purchases items within the king's land, or crosses a border of the king's land, he will be heavily and forcibly taxed. Refusal and violence is forbidden as per rule 4. above.
echelon_house 11-08-07, 06:05 PM	I've always handled this problem simply by saying that the PCs were the only adventurers. There's no "adventuring class," or "adventurer's guilds" or anything of the sort. The PCs are simply ordinary people thrust into extraordinary circumstances. Fighters are soldiers, guards, bouncers, etc. Wizards are skilled craftsmen and usually have a store where they sell their goods and services. Etc.
Nickpire84 11-08-07, 06:16 PM	I'd require adventurers to get a permit before delving into any of the dungeons in my land. The permit would be just enough to cover the cost of the paper it's written on. Any adventurers would then be charged a 5 or 10% tax on any recovered treasure, to be collected by the merchant they're selling it to or at any one of the many stations I'll have set up around the country. It would be illegal for merchants buy treasure from adventurers without first seeing their permit. Adventurers would recieve documentation that their goods were taxed to avoid doing so more than once and irritating people who can cast wail of the banshee.
Legdiwena 11-08-07, 07:22 PM	Make them buy a royal charter for their group or else carrying most types of weapons is illegal.
Amon_V 11-08-07, 11:12 PM	Sorry, first of all, any kind of agreement like this would require international co-operation. In addition, I generally try to avoid the overwhelming suckitude of classical medieval societies. Medieval societies often dispense arbitrary and cruel punishment. Adventurer's aren't a classless elite in my world, indeed, adventurers are in themselves hard to define. See, 10 to 1 that the King either hires and is supported by high level characters, or is a high level character himself. If this is not true, he abdicates in favor of a 7th level wizard with the Dominate Spell. Adventurers, in any case, are the group of society who are LEAST LIKELY to need legal rights. You tango with an Adventurer, they can execute their own justice. Tax one, and they leave (or try to take over). You can't really force them to play along with the law unless it's entirely in their best interest. In short, high level characters need each other to keep themselves in check. With no High Level dudes running around, the crown can make whatever laws it wants, they just won't matter. Sorry, but without describing "person", "Monster" and "Adventurer", these laws aren't enforceable. I'll just claim that the nobility was a 'monster'. Without defining those terms, you must acquit.
DyloniusFunk 11-09-07, 12:36 AM	Sorry, first of all, any kind of agreement like this would require international co-operation. In addition, I generally try to avoid the overwhelming suckitude of classical medieval societies. Medieval societies often dispense arbitrary and cruel punishment. Adventurer's aren't a classless elite in my world, indeed, adventurers are in themselves hard to define. See, 10 to 1 that the King either hires and is supported by high level characters, or is a high level character himself. If this is not true, he abdicates in favor of a 7th level wizard with the Dominate Spell. Adventurers, in any case, are the group of society who are LEAST LIKELY to need legal rights. You tango with an Adventurer, they can execute their own justice. Tax one, and they leave (or try to take over). You can't really force them to play along with the law unless it's entirely in their best interest. In short, high level characters need each other to keep themselves in check. With no High Level dudes running around, the crown can make whatever laws it wants, they just won't matter. Sorry, but without describing "person", "Monster" and "Adventurer", these laws aren't enforceable. I'll just claim that the nobility was a 'monster'. Without defining those terms, you must acquit. If you're assumeing a world with lots of high level PC classed people then it would make sense to assume that the King has some of those guys in his employee. And any smart adventurer knows it's better to have allies than enemies and the ones being played by idiots or by CN=CS types would have been killed before they gfot to high level.
Amon_V 11-09-07, 02:53 AM	If you're assumeing a world with lots of high level PC classed people then it would make sense to assume that the King has some of those guys in his employee. And any smart adventurer knows it's better to have allies than enemies and the ones being played by idiots or by CN=CS types would have been killed before they gfot to high level. I don't know if you meant to oppose my point or not; in any event, I think it strengthens what I've been saying all along. PC Classes don't need special support from the State. They ARE the State. 'The King might have some in his employ' still doesn't due the situation justice. At a Minimum, the King is savvy enough to have some High level characters as political allies. Saying that he's got High levels in his pocket is like saying that New Zealand has the USA in its pocket. There are ties, and they go in the opposite direction. And I'll quickly point out that the D&D world is very meritocratic--the best people really do take the top positions. If you compare the amount of money that even a mid-level adventurer has, you'll find that they are well within the noble ranks. A class of 'idle rich' will not remain in control when richer, more powerful people come to play. Anyhow, high level characters don't need additional legal protection--because they run the states in question. What's going on here, then, is the government attempting to 'Flirt' with high level PCs to induce them to stay. In any case, I believe the historical model of government would be dead as a doornail. If Kings and families rule countries, its either because they are all high level characters, or its because they have massive political connections (Think Bush, for Example). D&D High Levels wouldn't suffer an unpopular monarch; they'd place King George II in power and tell him what to do. And if the nation's 'Power Elite' run the show, there is no need for special laws and special treatment to reward them. That is probably better left off the books.
knightwriter 11-09-07, 01:24 PM	I would create an adventurer's charter where they have to sign up to become actual adventurers. Thus if not found with your charter in hand you are taxed heavily and not allowed inside of any town with your weapons. This would also maintain that any major items be posted with the local authorities for inspection, to make sure they are not evil and so that the kingdom can keep track of what items have been found and what they do.
Lincoln Hills 11-09-07, 02:57 PM	Archduke: ...defiled the ball-room floor, kicked the ducal hounds, and removed the trousers of the Captain of the Guard when he commanded them to lay down their arms. Chaplain: Not a problem, your Grace. These 'adventurers' have a false sense of entitlement. You see, having abandoned their place in society, they expect all sorts of rights and privileges from that very same society, on the grounds that they are rich and good at killing things. Archduke: I see all that, but what about my problem? Chaplain: Of course, after years of growing increasingly powerful, they usually tire of resurrecting Tiamat just so they kill her some more. They settle down somewhere peaceful that reminds them of home, and sometimes choose to bury their wealth, hang their artifacts over the fireplace, and take up a nice desk job, such as personal chaplain to the Archduke. Archduke: Oh good, you'll help. Chaplain: Where d'you want the bodies delivered? - Scratch that. I know a few spells: there won't be any bodies left.
DruidWannabe 11-09-07, 04:38 PM	Archduke: ...defiled the ball-room floor, kicked the ducal hounds, and removed the trousers of the Captain of the Guard when he commanded them to lay down their arms. Chaplain: Not a problem, your Grace. These 'adventurers' have a false sense of entitlement. You see, having abandoned their place in society, they expect all sorts of rights and privileges from that very same society, on the grounds that they are rich and good at killing things. Archduke: I see all that, but what about my problem? Chaplain: Of course, after years of growing increasingly powerful, they usually tire of resurrecting Tiamat just so they kill her some more. They settle down somewhere peaceful that reminds them of home, and sometimes choose to bury their wealth, hang their artifacts over the fireplace, and take up a nice desk job, such as personal chaplain to the Archduke. Archduke: Oh good, you'll help. Chaplain: Where d'you want the bodies delivered? - Scratch that. I know a few spells: there won't be any bodies left. :rofl:
knightwriter 11-09-07, 07:08 PM	Last post= too funny! :D
Mooncalf 11-09-07, 08:07 PM	Excellent point, that. Explains why a high-level character would serve a noble... because he wants to. (And killing a band of uppity mid-levelers might net some extra XP and loot, too.) Similar to how every inn and tavern seems to be run by retired fighters, too... it's an easy source of income, there's food and booze, and after going one on one with the Tarrasque, you're more than capable of handling any troublemakers who get loud and try to paw the wenches. ------------------------------------------------- I have no sig. Does this bother you?
Voran 11-10-07, 12:05 AM	I'd imagine you'd array things so you put as much pressure and controls on the 'young' adventuring groups and slowly eased up pressure and replace it with things like favor and regard, as groups get more powerful. If you regulate them when they're small, you might get some nice taxes and such, and still have the ability to stomp them, if needed, but as groups get more powerful you sorta start adopting less restrictive ties on them, hoping instead that whatever good-will you've established over the years makes them inclined to follow your laws...and not...yknow...nuke you.
Hack and Smasher 11-10-07, 02:32 PM	Depends on level, but considering a 9th level character can level a city in less than 30 seconds using the core rules. Assassinations, rites of outlaw and bounties seem a better way dealing with adventurers. Of course depends on the level and frequency of "adventurers"
Prator_The_Golden 11-10-07, 09:24 PM	Adventurers, in any case, are the group of society who are LEAST LIKELY to need legal rights. You tango with an Adventurer, they can execute their own justice. Tax one, and they leave (or try to take over). You can't really force them to play along with the law unless it's entirely in their best interest. Not all high-level characters have to be adventurers. The power elite doesn't necessarily have to be a collection of people who go gallivanting off to slay dragons on weekeds. In fact, the ONLY way that would be true is if the only way to earn sufficient XP to gain levels was through murder. In a more realistic world, you should get small amounts of experience points just by living and completing the day-to-day challenges that face you. You can look at it as a form of roleplaying XP, if you prefer, but in theory, a wizard in an ivory tower studying magic for twenty years, never leaving that tower, should know as much if not more about how to throw fireballs at things than the upstart sorcerer who started using "Magic Missile" on the darkness a month ago. Going by that system, the average middle-aged commoner should be at least level 5. Noblemen who get involved in a lot of political intrigue can be 10-15, with the King himself around 17-19. And bald wrinkly smiling men who oversee fighting dojos can be level 20 or higher. None of these people have to enter a dungeon even once in their whole lives. I suppose it depends a little on how you set the world up, but in MY world, Adventurers are not so much special individuals with above-average power as they are simple mercenaries, people willing to do dangerous things for money and glory. Perhaps later in their careers, when they're gorged on levels and magical gear, maybe then they can consider doing stuff like taking the law into their own hands, but until that time an "adventurer's rights" decree is a necessity in order to avoid being capped by the powerful people around you.
pigknight 11-11-07, 08:29 PM	King's a tyrant. does he care about adventureres? No. Should he? Yes. Should he also have ways to counter invisibility after his half-black fiendish wyrm red dragon decked out with gear goes down? Yes. Does he? No. People in powerful positions sometimes think they're invulnerable (the above might be 'cause he's a trisalt fighter/cleric/duskblade 25th) and also sometimes the DM doesn't think to far ahead.