Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DwelleroftheDeep 02-28-04, 12:16 PM	I have finally met an alignment question that I have not been able to use simple common sense on in my game, it has nothing to do with my players, or there actions, it has to do with a good aligned government, the government is a willing theocracy-monarchy hybrid; the government is policed by the main church, this is not a problem, the absolute ruler of the land is hereditary, but he is invested with the power, wisdom, and goodness of the god of light, and nobility. Though the people of the area have several major hatreds that have been passed down through the generations they are basically good normal people. [warning digression alert] I suppose a little explanation is needed for this, so here it is; There are several major human kingdoms (about 10), each with it's own major race of humans (no actual rules change, just flavor), long ago these kingdoms (the people not the land) lived on one continent, seperated form a few other continents on the sides. Eventually the elves, and the Athear(weird elf race- allied with elves) invaded, the humans were still little better then stone age, and magic had not come to them yet, and they worshipped no particular god, they had little choice but to flee their ancestral lands. Each used their own means of escape the continent, evading the expanionist elves, most of these "kingdoms dont concern us for the moment, we will stick with the human s that will come to be known as the Solarians, these people were desperate, the elves were hot on their heels and they were not going to make it over the mountains to the west before the elven army caught up with them, the great god of light took pity on them, he offered the ruler of the kingdom safety for his people and himself in exchange for their devotion. After taking the humans across the mountains the great god gave a large portion of his abilities to the ruler, and his bloodline forever after, then showed them to the land that is now the area mentioned above. The great god was and is a god of nobility, honour, and he bears a special hatred toward traitors, especially among his chosen people. The people of the kingdom hate the elves, and a fellow human kingdom to the south that escaped via magic. The reason the elves are so hated is because, of course, they drove the humans from their homeland, they pay homage to a completly differant pantheon, and had an arrogant attitude of disdain to the human kingdom until recently, but that is another matter entirely. The southern human kingdom is atheistic, and a bitter rival of the kingdom described previously. Anyway, digressions aside the government of the kingdom uses a special method of punishment on traitors to the kingdom, it is a complicated process that involves the traitor having it's ability to control it's body being stripped away, leaving the traitor as an automation, it can think, but not act on what it thinks, only act as the clerics command until the creature is destroyed, or the punishment has been deemed done, in which case the traitor is freed from the servitude, I am curious as to what you people on the boards think of this method of punishment- is it evil being the main question I have on my mind, thanks in advance and sorry about the digressions.
Remnant 02-28-04, 12:45 PM	Perhaps it is evil. It depends on how much of the lens of our own culture you are going to judge your fictional culture through. I would, without any hesitation, call it extremely lawful. Now, it is a form of indebted slavery. In your fictional world, is such slavery evil? If no, then the only question is, is removing a person's free will as a form of punishment evil in your world.
Maraxus 02-28-04, 10:01 PM	This depends on what the cleric let's the character do. if he has to to really ugly thinks like ... I bet you can thing of very evil things to do here ..., just for the punishment and the sadistic pleasure of the cleric, than, it would be evil. If he had to do work that is a sort of punishement, but not against basic rights and that is also useful, like hard labour, or long guarding jobs (standing 16 hour a day is hard work), then it would probably be neutral. If the comand is, to "serve the people and the king with your best capabilities.", than you could even consider it good (Allthrought this looks more like a "geas" spell, not what you had).
OmiKapSi 02-29-04, 03:03 AM	Take a look at the helm of opposite alignment... evil? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188994) thread, it may have some relevant ideas. As I stated on that thread, use of mind control (of any sort) is a lawful neutral means. The ends will of course modify this.
Ilanthe 02-29-04, 05:41 AM	Originally posted by Remnant Perhaps it is evil. It depends on how much of the lens of our own culture you are going to judge your fictional culture through. I would, without any hesitation, call it extremely lawful. Now, it is a form of indebted slavery. In your fictional world, is such slavery evil? If no, then the only question is, is removing a person's free will as a form of punishment evil in your world. Do the Solarian's consider it evil? If the goddess worshiped by an early fighter/cleric of mine existed in your world, She would certainly consider the practice evil. She had a real bee in her bonnet about the removal of free will for reasons of her own. I can imagine some very long theological debates going on between the Solarian clerics and the followers of Anath. However much we might want evil to be objective and quantifiable, morality is subjective - and we always bring our own, usually Christianised, morals to the debating table. Having said that, I'd agree with the other posters that unless you want to consider charm/dominate etc evil per se, then how and for what purpose these mental slaves are used would probably be the deciding factor. Personally though I'm with Anath on this one. I find the idea abhorrent.