An enemy with dual shields? [Archive] - Wizards Community

An enemy with dual shields? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
andr50
10-27-06, 10:20 AM Howdy folks.

Im DMing for a group, that contains my former DM.

He is one of those guys who has played for a long time, and I want to try to throw him a curve....A hobgoblin that uses shield bash as a primary attack, with dual sheilds.

Im guessing of giving him 2 large metal sheilds, with shield blades - same a shield spikes, except slashing instead of peircing.

Giving him feats like, Two Weapon fighting, and improved shield bash.

Now, Im a bit new at this, but even with 2 shields, he only gets the +2 AC added once, right?

Also, does this sound viable as an enemy that the players might meet up with a few times?
Board_Rider
10-27-06, 10:28 AM The shield bonus to AC (the +2) does indeed only apply one tine.

The enemy is certianly different and can be a viable, reoccuring BBEG if you design and tell the story in a way where it makes sense. The fighting style is sub optimal, but it is a bit different.
kadeity
10-27-06, 10:38 AM i would also give him the tactical feat from PHB2 that is for people with spiked armor and shields.

and...something that would be fun...
give him some floating sheilds too :)
like animated ones.
Sulaco
10-27-06, 10:43 AM Now, Im a bit new at this, but even with 2 shields, he only gets the +2 AC added once, right?

Technically yes, but you could make the shields together a single unique custom item set that when used together grant a higher AC bonus.
Vestigial_Thumb
10-27-06, 10:44 AM i would also give him the tactical feat from PHB2 that is for people with spiked armor and shields.
Not for free, though.
kadeity
10-27-06, 10:55 AM Not for free, though.
nothing is free.
Vestigial_Thumb
10-27-06, 11:05 AM nothing is free.
Indeed it isn't. :)
Cthulhu3125
10-27-06, 11:07 AM I can't quite place which one comes up more frequently: "I want to have a blind character", or "I want to have 2 shields". It's odd...
Kradlo
10-27-06, 11:28 AM Can I have a blind character with two shields?

:w00t:
Pegasos989
10-27-06, 11:41 AM Can I have intelligent shield character who controls two blind monks?
CowMasterTrojan
10-27-06, 11:49 AM Howdy folks.

Im DMing for a group, that contains my former DM.

He is one of those guys who has played for a long time, and I want to try to throw him a curve....A hobgoblin that uses shield bash as a primary attack, with dual sheilds.

Im guessing of giving him 2 large metal sheilds, with shield blades - same a shield spikes, except slashing instead of peircing.

Giving him feats like, Two Weapon fighting, and improved shield bash.

Now, Im a bit new at this, but even with 2 shields, he only gets the +2 AC added once, right?

Also, does this sound viable as an enemy that the players might meet up with a few times?

Well a nice thing about this build is that you can fight with a sheild and still use it too. Usually when you sheild bash you lose the AC bonus from that sheild, but because he has two he still gets the AC bonus. Unless you attack with both.

Knight levels and feats from the PHB II would add nicely to the build too.
Good Luck
kliate
10-27-06, 12:08 PM At high levels, there is another aspect of dual-shields that appears to work.

A shield is not a body slot (Magic Items on the Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody) ), but it can be host to numerous magical effects. Although a number of effects overlap (Shield and Shield Enhancement bonuses), the shield can be a remarkably potent magical item.

First, one shield can be used to provide an obscene amount of AC with a +5 Enhancement. The second shield could further contribute to AC by being enhanced as a +5 Defending Weapon. The combined bonuses from the shields would then be +12 AC.

Furthermore, certain "+X" costed effects could be balanced across the shields to provide a powerful offensive and defensive arrangement. Consider, for example, the combination of:

Heavy Steel Shield: +3 Shield Enhancement, Moderate Fortification (36,170gp) and
Light Steel Shield: +1 Shield Enhancement, Reflecting
+2 Weapon Enhancement, Defending (54,159 gp)

For that price, you get a +5 Shield bonus to AC with the option of taking up another +2 unnamed bonus from the Defending shield (total of +7). You also ignore critical hits 50% of the time (as well as other effects such as sneak attack and sudden strike) and can turn a spell on its caster once per day.

For a very high budget, you can combine some frightening abilities

Heavy Steel Shield: +5 Shield Enhancement, Heavy Fortification
+2 Weapon Enhancement, Unholy, Axiomatic, Vicious
(198,170gp)
Light Steel Shield: +1 Reflecting, Greater [energy] Resistance
+5 Weapon Enhancement, Defending, [Creature] Bane
(200,159gp)

Of course, those who want huge AC in a single hand may do well enough buying a +5 Shield/+5 Defending weapon to protect them.
ressurrector
10-27-06, 03:47 PM First off, there's a feat somewhere that allows you to bash with a shield and still retain the shield bonus to AC.
Secondly, the TWF tree seems like fun.
If you have the Sword and Fist (and allow stuff from 3e) theres a bunch of shield bashing feats in there that sllow some fun combat options.
Celestine_AutumnStar
10-27-06, 03:53 PM I have never understood why shield bonuses don't stack. Its sub optimal to walk around with two shields anyways so it can't be for game balance. It just makes sense that some guy with 2 heavy shields would be that much harder to hit than a guy with 1 heavy shield and a shortword.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-27-06, 04:14 PM Huzzah! Relevance! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=727343)

Note: I'm thinking of replacing the bonus feat choices with fixed, specific bonus feats, or even fixed class features that act like bonus feats.

Edit: So I did. Not that it matters; nobody seems to be looking at the class even though dual-wielding shields gets asked about every week. It's on the schedule right after monkey grip and powerful build.
Whisper_Swiftblade
10-27-06, 04:17 PM I think there is a feat in the PHBII that lets you throw sheilds as weapons, there is also one in there called sheild ward you might look into.

some other good ones you might want to look into that are from complete warrior are; defensive strike, greater resilinency, sheild charge, sheild slam.
allenchan
10-27-06, 04:26 PM IIRC cant you get the damage up to 2d6 with a heavy steel shield of bashing with armro spikes/razors?

And the thrown shield feat in the PHBII is inferior to the Throw Anything feat, just take that instead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
andr50 10-27-06, 10:20 AM	Howdy folks. Im DMing for a group, that contains my former DM. He is one of those guys who has played for a long time, and I want to try to throw him a curve....A hobgoblin that uses shield bash as a primary attack, with dual sheilds. Im guessing of giving him 2 large metal sheilds, with shield blades - same a shield spikes, except slashing instead of peircing. Giving him feats like, Two Weapon fighting, and improved shield bash. Now, Im a bit new at this, but even with 2 shields, he only gets the +2 AC added once, right? Also, does this sound viable as an enemy that the players might meet up with a few times?
Board_Rider 10-27-06, 10:28 AM	The shield bonus to AC (the +2) does indeed only apply one tine. The enemy is certianly different and can be a viable, reoccuring BBEG if you design and tell the story in a way where it makes sense. The fighting style is sub optimal, but it is a bit different.
kadeity 10-27-06, 10:38 AM	i would also give him the tactical feat from PHB2 that is for people with spiked armor and shields. and...something that would be fun... give him some floating sheilds too :) like animated ones.
Sulaco 10-27-06, 10:43 AM	Now, Im a bit new at this, but even with 2 shields, he only gets the +2 AC added once, right? Technically yes, but you could make the shields together a single unique custom item set that when used together grant a higher AC bonus.
Vestigial_Thumb 10-27-06, 10:44 AM	i would also give him the tactical feat from PHB2 that is for people with spiked armor and shields. Not for free, though.
kadeity 10-27-06, 10:55 AM	Not for free, though. nothing is free.
Vestigial_Thumb 10-27-06, 11:05 AM	nothing is free. Indeed it isn't. :)
Cthulhu3125 10-27-06, 11:07 AM	I can't quite place which one comes up more frequently: "I want to have a blind character", or "I want to have 2 shields". It's odd...
Kradlo 10-27-06, 11:28 AM	Can I have a blind character with two shields? :w00t:
Pegasos989 10-27-06, 11:41 AM	Can I have intelligent shield character who controls two blind monks?
CowMasterTrojan 10-27-06, 11:49 AM	Howdy folks. Im DMing for a group, that contains my former DM. He is one of those guys who has played for a long time, and I want to try to throw him a curve....A hobgoblin that uses shield bash as a primary attack, with dual sheilds. Im guessing of giving him 2 large metal sheilds, with shield blades - same a shield spikes, except slashing instead of peircing. Giving him feats like, Two Weapon fighting, and improved shield bash. Now, Im a bit new at this, but even with 2 shields, he only gets the +2 AC added once, right? Also, does this sound viable as an enemy that the players might meet up with a few times? Well a nice thing about this build is that you can fight with a sheild and still use it too. Usually when you sheild bash you lose the AC bonus from that sheild, but because he has two he still gets the AC bonus. Unless you attack with both. Knight levels and feats from the PHB II would add nicely to the build too. Good Luck
kliate 10-27-06, 12:08 PM	At high levels, there is another aspect of dual-shields that appears to work. A shield is not a body slot (Magic Items on the Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody) ), but it can be host to numerous magical effects. Although a number of effects overlap (Shield and Shield Enhancement bonuses), the shield can be a remarkably potent magical item. First, one shield can be used to provide an obscene amount of AC with a +5 Enhancement. The second shield could further contribute to AC by being enhanced as a +5 Defending Weapon. The combined bonuses from the shields would then be +12 AC. Furthermore, certain "+X" costed effects could be balanced across the shields to provide a powerful offensive and defensive arrangement. Consider, for example, the combination of: Heavy Steel Shield: +3 Shield Enhancement, Moderate Fortification (36,170gp) and Light Steel Shield: +1 Shield Enhancement, Reflecting +2 Weapon Enhancement, Defending (54,159 gp) For that price, you get a +5 Shield bonus to AC with the option of taking up another +2 unnamed bonus from the Defending shield (total of +7). You also ignore critical hits 50% of the time (as well as other effects such as sneak attack and sudden strike) and can turn a spell on its caster once per day. For a very high budget, you can combine some frightening abilities Heavy Steel Shield: +5 Shield Enhancement, Heavy Fortification +2 Weapon Enhancement, Unholy, Axiomatic, Vicious (198,170gp) Light Steel Shield: +1 Reflecting, Greater [energy] Resistance +5 Weapon Enhancement, Defending, [Creature] Bane (200,159gp) Of course, those who want huge AC in a single hand may do well enough buying a +5 Shield/+5 Defending weapon to protect them.
ressurrector 10-27-06, 03:47 PM	First off, there's a feat somewhere that allows you to bash with a shield and still retain the shield bonus to AC. Secondly, the TWF tree seems like fun. If you have the Sword and Fist (and allow stuff from 3e) theres a bunch of shield bashing feats in there that sllow some fun combat options.
Celestine_AutumnStar 10-27-06, 03:53 PM	I have never understood why shield bonuses don't stack. Its sub optimal to walk around with two shields anyways so it can't be for game balance. It just makes sense that some guy with 2 heavy shields would be that much harder to hit than a guy with 1 heavy shield and a shortword.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-27-06, 04:14 PM	Huzzah! Relevance! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=727343) Note: I'm thinking of replacing the bonus feat choices with fixed, specific bonus feats, or even fixed class features that act like bonus feats. Edit: So I did. Not that it matters; nobody seems to be looking at the class even though dual-wielding shields gets asked about every week. It's on the schedule right after monkey grip and powerful build.
Whisper_Swiftblade 10-27-06, 04:17 PM	I think there is a feat in the PHBII that lets you throw sheilds as weapons, there is also one in there called sheild ward you might look into. some other good ones you might want to look into that are from complete warrior are; defensive strike, greater resilinency, sheild charge, sheild slam.
allenchan 10-27-06, 04:26 PM	IIRC cant you get the damage up to 2d6 with a heavy steel shield of bashing with armro spikes/razors? And the thrown shield feat in the PHBII is inferior to the Throw Anything feat, just take that instead.