Post/Author/DateTime	Post
smaugfrost 01-04-05, 07:40 PM	We adopted a standard Nat '1' rule in our game about three years ago and I wanted to suggest it to any DMs out there who may be considering what to do with "fumbles" or even to institute fumbles in their games. We (several players and I) discussed what a fumble could represent in combat, and what could happen with some 5% consistency and make sense, (unlike dropping your weapon, throwing it through your friend, cutting your own head off with a vorpal weapon, etc.) and maintain game balance as well when applied to monsters and NPCs along with the PCs. We finally settled on the following scene: Knight of the Holy Order of St. Whatsizface is in battle with an orc legionairre, when he suddenly thrusts forward, missing his target and opening himself wide to an attack. The orc strikes at the exposed flanks of the humie tin can and ventilates him with a longsword through the breadbasket. We agreed at once... it was so obvious at that moment. Nat '1' would mean an opportunity attack for the target of the failed attack. Still adhering to the "1 opportunity attack per round without feats" rule we discovered that this added an additional element to combat without autoscrewing the poor slob who rolled it.
ECOM 01-04-05, 07:56 PM	I have been doing this in my game for over a year now. I does add some excitment to the game. I found that there is a need to conferm the fumble like conferming a critical or else the pc get banged up to much (have them reroll the attack on a miss it is a fumble on a hit it is just a miss)
smaugfrost 01-04-05, 08:09 PM	I wanted to mention this also... If the attacker rolls a Nat '1' and opens himself up to an opportunity attack, a Nat '1' rolled on the opportunity attack means that the opportunistic bastard has screwed the pooch so badly that his intended victim now gets an opportunity to skewer his would be attacker. I have had many fights suddenly change course through a simple chain of misses and missed opportunities. Kind of a swashbuckling feel to it as well. In these rules, a rogue with multiple opportunity attacks per round really shines.
LordArkan 01-05-05, 04:13 AM	Keep in mind that under any sort of fumble rules, that 20th level fighter is 400% more likely to screw up than the 1st level wizard who isn't even proficient with the sword he's swinging around. That just doesn't make any sense.
Gil Gwath 01-05-05, 04:26 AM	Keep in mind that under any sort of fumble rules, that 20th level fighter is 400% more likely to screw up than the 1st level wizard who isn't even proficient with the sword he's swinging around. That just doesn't make any sense. not at all if you use the "confirmation" fumble, just like the criticals
Kalanth 01-05-05, 04:41 AM	Thanks for this suggestion. We have always used confirmation fumbles, but after our last DM decided that every character that fumbled would be an excelent javelin toss atlethe, we were looking for a replacement to the fumble ideas we had. I will use this, but not as the only result, I will utilize a d6 rule, where a random roll determins which of the six possibilities would occur.
ShadowDragon8685 01-05-05, 06:00 AM	I dunno. Sometimes it works out nicely. When I was new to DMing, and still pretty stupid, I decided that not only were zombies flammable, but after a few 1d6-2 rounds of burning they were subject to a 1d6 methane explosion for a 10 foot radius. Well, stupid gnome gets it into her head to swing a torch at a zombie. And rolls a natural 1, followed by a natural 1. Then we rolled for throw direction - right at the zombie who was attacking her, which had behind him (immideately,) another player, and another zombie. Reflex saves, everyone. DC 14. Zombie 1: Natural 20. Rogue: Makes it. Zombie 3: natural 1. Right in the chest, she implants a flaming torch. Roll for explosion: 1. now, 1 - 2 = -1 = explodes insantly. 10 foot radius: The rogue, and the other zombie. Rogue: Rolls saving throw. Natural 20. Zombie: Rolls saving throw for half. Natural one. Roll for explosion (from fire,) 1d6 = 2 - 2 = 0 = explosion. Rogue, roll for saving throw: Natural 1. Gnome, roll for saving throw: Natural 1... So not only did she wind up burning the eyebrows off herself and another party member, but she took out TWO zombies with a natural 1. And thus, the Olympic Gnomish Torch-Chunking competition was born. :)
Tusz 01-05-05, 06:47 AM	<story about 'splosions Best fumble story I've ever read. One way to fix the fighter-fumble problem is by saying that you can only fumble on the first attack of the round.
Ut-Napishtim 01-05-05, 06:55 AM	That's interesting, personally I've always gone with the old DC 10 Reflex to see if you drop your weapon. If you do then you simply have to go pick it up. I'll definitely talk this over with my players though to see what they think of it.
VerinBlod 01-05-05, 09:11 AM	I must say that I find this idea a lot interesting than the dc 10 reflex I use. ;) Might incorporated this one, but with the confirmation rule. I don't see the problem with the fighter vs wizard. The fighter already has a higher percentage for fumbling his weapon because he is the frontliner and all. But if you think that's a problem just insert the fix Tusz came up with. (only on the first attack) Or enemies may only take advantage of a fumble once a round, even if they have combat reflexes. Just my two cents VerinBlod
Phrennzy 01-05-05, 09:58 AM	We've been using the 'attack of opportunity' fumble rule since we started playing. But you have to 'confirm' the fumble by missing a second time. That way the 20th level fighter isn't lame. It works out very well. We also don't count the attack against the number of AoO you can make a round.
starfire311 01-05-05, 10:25 AM	I have been using a similar fumble rule since about 2 weeks after 3E came out, however I require the fumbler to confirm the fumble after rolling a one. In my time on this board I have discussed this several times(quick search reveals 2 other threads with this topic in the last 2 months) and it seems that several people use this method of confirming a fumble.
Puskara 01-05-05, 10:51 AM	This is a great idea. WIll have to try it out. First off while the lvl 20 fighter is rolling more attacks that does not mean the probability is direct. The probability that you roll four 1's in a row on a d20 is 1 in 160,000 if memory serves. This does not take into account that you would have to fail 4 confirmation rolls and that the enemy would have to have an INT of 13 or better , have combat reflexes, and a 16 DEX to take 4 AoO's in one round. Puskara