Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SwitchUK 10-05-05, 05:51 PM	There's nothing in the "brew potions" feat rule block that forbids the creation of a harmful potion. People tend to use spells like cure moderate wounds, bull's strength, remove poison etc, but is there any particular reason why a potion couldn't use actively offensive spells, such as inflict moderate wounds, or even the flashbang arcane spells, like fireball and magic missile Obviously, in most cases these wouldn't function like a typical potion - nobody's dumb enough to drink a potion of disintegrate, for example - but such a potion could be thrown, and would activate on impact, and either target what it hit, or the nearest target and then there are all the nasty things that could be done by mixing a potion of inflict serious wounds in amongst a stash of curative potions as a way of punishing thieves. thoughts? if you really like, why not list some examples?
20goingon1232 10-05-05, 06:15 PM	I might give it to you if you can rationalise it as a liquid and works on contact or imbibed. For example, the spells Poison or Contagion, I would allow. Disintegrate? No.
SwitchUK 10-05-05, 06:18 PM	I'm thinking that disintegrate could work on contact. It'd be a bit like trying to store antimatter in a zip-lock baggie, and would probably make for the worst (or at least, cheesiest) thrown splash weapon ever, but it could be put to use as a kind of universal solvent that will dissolve ANYTHING,
Kaligrad 10-05-05, 06:24 PM	*Ahem* A potion is a magic liquid that produces its effect when imbibed. Magic oils are similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather than imbibed. A potion or oil can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute. Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the effect —the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect). The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.
crossbow 10-05-05, 06:27 PM	Sooo, you could have an oil of fireballs? Wow, D&D napalm! I can see this being abused but it might just be interesting enough to be worth it. I'll have to think on this one some more... crossbow
Ogmug 10-05-05, 06:32 PM	Brew potions state that "the imbiber is both the caster and the target". Spells like shield other are not allowed (ie, a target creatuer), nor is shield (personal) I think by precedence in the book (based off of the magic used, and the targets) a potion can only be made of spells with "Range: Touch" Examples (taken at random) Potion: Spell used: Range Cure Lt Wnd Cure Lt Wnd touch endure elements Endure Elements touch enlarge person Enlarge Person one humanoid " The greatest majority of all targets seem to be a "touch" type...
SwitchUK 10-05-05, 06:45 PM	hence: tinkering with. I think I just like the idea of being able to chuck a fireball in a jar at someone like some kind of DnD grenade. On the other hand, wands and scrolls do pretty much the same thing...
rbrt_Spade 10-05-05, 06:48 PM	well i guess you can trick the monster with int 5 to drink it... also that would be fun to put a potion of fireball in loot found...-like a cursed idem
imperialjunkie 10-05-05, 07:11 PM	Remember that potions and oils can only be made with up to 3rd level spells. Disintegrate is out just on that alone. I would just rule based on the nature of the spell. Inflict wounds or poison would be interesting oportunities for traps as someone else mentioned.
Arcen 10-05-05, 07:31 PM	I think alchemy would be more in the spirit of what you had in mind. You can create all kinds of nasty things with a high alchemy skill.
alecthemad 10-05-05, 07:51 PM	I think craft wondrous items is what you are looking for. Fireballs in a jar are essentially a necklace of fireballs with only one firefall.
Bruunwald 10-05-05, 07:59 PM	Made up a potion once, that caused a random effect: either uncontrollable sneezing for several hours, or growing a tail that constantly interferes with whatever action the wearer is attempting.
Millennium 10-05-05, 08:33 PM	I think craft wondrous items is what you are looking for. Fireballs in a jar are essentially a necklace of fireballs with only one firefall. Potion of Nitroglycerine? :D
Grizelda 10-05-05, 08:40 PM	Potion of Nitroglycerine? :D nononono what you want to put in the party is a potion of stinking cloud and then go into detail as to how it manifests and why its centered on the imbiber. :) or if you have some sort of craft greater potion feat and can get highler level spells in there how about a cloudkill? talk about silent but deadly! :D
yellowdingo 10-05-05, 08:55 PM	All it takes is for the individual to fall down the stairs of the Wizards tower with a tray of "Nukes is a Bottle" and it would be like: A ten foot cube of stone vapourizes on contact and you fall in on fire as the fireball explosion is still dissapating and the poison cloud fills the room. As you pass out in pain you see the Wizard looking down into the hole you have dug for yourself. "You realize that this is going to cost extra?"
Always-Late 10-05-05, 09:03 PM	If you were going to do it, just make it like each potion was energized as per the BoED spell Energize Potion (turns potions into bombs, 1d6 per potion level), and find some effects that would be about the same as the described.
wyvern_55 10-05-05, 09:11 PM	Theoretically, even if a potion of disintegration were possible to create, what on earth would you keep it in?
yellowdingo 10-06-05, 01:03 AM	Theoretically, even if a potion of disintegration were possible to create, what on earth would you keep it in? How about confining it in a resonating confinement field under stasis? AKA DOC OCKS REFLEX FURNACE -Spiderman 2 that way the "potion bottle" doesnt realy exist... It sits on a shelf like some lava lamp art piece (without the lamp) waiting for some fool to penetrate the Wizards hut and go: "Oh! that neat, bubble float in air!" After several attempts to touch the bubble fail. " Nurfin! Magic wont let me catch bubble! Nurfin cast dispel!" "Not until i'm sure it's safe!" Uvon looks at Nurfin. "Uvon looks at Nurfin with angry face." "Oh all right!" Nurfin casts dispel magic and the field containing the bubble collapses. The duo instantly vanish with a section of the wall.
SwitchUK 10-06-05, 03:35 AM	I think craft wondrous items is what you are looking for. Fireballs in a jar are essentially a necklace of fireballs with only one firefall. You would seem to be confusing this with a desire to bring fireballs into a low-arcane-magic party. that's not the case at all. I have a sorceress. The point here is effect. I'm more interested in the game image of the fairly weedy alchemist NPC who normally cowers in his wagon when an attack starts suddenly hurling a stoppered flask at the goblin bandits and crispy-frying ten of them, thereby simultaenously reducing the attacking force to a size a level 1 party could reasonably expect to handle AND alerting the PCs to the idea that here is a man who can help them with their potion needs (they don't have a cleric) This is not about the RAW or about giving them some better spells at low levels, this is more about effect than anything else. though yeah, disintegrate might be going a bit far.
revnk 10-06-05, 04:39 PM	You would seem to be confusing this with a desire to bring fireballs into a low-arcane-magic party. that's not the case at all. I have a sorceress. The point here is effect. I'm more interested in the game image of the fairly weedy alchemist NPC who normally cowers in his wagon when an attack starts suddenly hurling a stoppered flask at the goblin bandits and crispy-frying ten of them, thereby simultaenously reducing the attacking force to a size a level 1 party could reasonably expect to handle AND alerting the PCs to the idea that here is a man who can help them with their potion needs (they don't have a cleric) This is not about the RAW or about giving them some better spells at low levels, this is more about effect than anything else. though yeah, disintegrate might be going a bit far. In that case, it might be enough that the "weedy alchemist" has cooked up a vial of "Weedy's Fabulous Fluid of Flammability," a carefully concocted formula which he alone has the recipe for, which ignites on contact with air and has an effect equivalent to a 5th level caster's fireball. He might have other concoctions which have equivalent effects of other spells without actually "being" the specific arcane spell. As Ogmug and Kaligrad have noted, there's a RAW problem with using potions to use the kinds of spells you're looking at: the imbiber is essentially treated as the caster and the target. There's a conceptual problem, too: assuming for the sake of an argument that you could use a potion or oil of fireball, wouldn't the user be the target of the spell, either generating a fireball in his gut or on his skin? (I'm thinking that's neither pretty nor the intended effect.) Finally: looking at the comments on a hypothetical potion of disintegration: again, assuming for the sake of an argument that you could do this and that it would be a good idea, there's nothing that should make one assume that such a potion would be a solvent--it's reasonable to assume that the potion is activated by its interaction with the imbiber (i.e. either a chemical reaction with stomach acids, or a metaphysical reaction with the imbiber's life force or whatever). A "disintegration potion," in other words, might be inert until someone drank it (and disintegrated).