An Idea Needs Moulding [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Idea Needs Moulding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kargush
12-05-06, 04:39 AM I have an idea for a campaign I am developing. According to the legends I intend to scatter about in the campaign world, the diety of the forge(as yet un-named)once had several forges scattered across the Material Plane, but now they are all destroyed in a large war that almost destroyed the planes. That is, all but one, hidden in a hideously remote location(the PC's will likely be epic before they get to it). Now, these forges are unique. You see, items forged in them(or it, as is the case here) cannot be destroyed except in the forge it was created in... Also, magic items created there do not cost exp, nor do they cost anything except for the cost of the base material. In effect, cheap and reliable magic items gallore. However, I intend to make it so that atleast one member of the party must be a worshipper of this god for them to use the forge.

So, I ask, what do you think? Any ideas of what level it should be set at? Or maybe some advice on the actual idea?
antsterr
12-05-06, 09:06 AM Well, expect world war to break out over it. Perhaps it requires the ability to rebuke or command Fire elementals so that way you'd need a cleric with the domain of fire to operate the forge.
Do you still need to be able to cast the spell needed and have the craft magic arms and armour feet? There should be some restrictions on what you can make.
If it's a forge that can only be used by one or two people at a time it would somewhat limit it's world wide significance.
BlueBlazer
12-05-06, 11:29 AM I have no idea if this will apply to your world, but I'll spit it out anyway... it's what I would do. Oh, and whether you use any of this or not, don't let them anywhere near the forge until they're at least level 20ish.

The standard Dwarven creation myth (Moradin made the Dwarves) is wrong, or at least incorrectly remembered. There was (is) a pantheon of Dwarven gods, each of whom had a forge where they each made a part of the First Dwarf (maybe a physical part like "torso", but I'd do something like "courage" , "honor", "strength", "nobility of beard", etc.) and Moradin put these parts together in his forge and gave the whole the spark of life. These forges are obviously the über-powerful forges you mentioned (maybe they're not all destroyed, maybe they're all hidden/were lost in the Big War and one has been/will be discovered and located?). Now you could do a One Of The Dwarven Gods Was Evil/Fell From Grace kind of deal but I think that's a little cliché, I personally would go with the one forge that's 'found' being the forge of the god (True Neutral) who gave the Dwarves 'greed' (or 'treasure lust' however you want to put it) or maybe Moradin's forge itself. Then again, I don't suppose it matters which (whose) forge is found. Still, the Greed God is cool.

I'm assuming you'll have other people (NPCs and Baddies... pretty much the whole planet, or at least those powerful enough to Brave The Journey) trying to get at this forge, with the requisite Don't Let Them Find It/Beat Them To The Clue/etc. quests. Since you said that items made in a forge can only be destroyed in that forge I'm thinking you're planning on a Cracks Of Doom Destroy The Evil Artifact sort of LoTR quest, which I would advise against. If you're going to do something like that I'd do an Evil Minion Of Evil God (or Actual Evil God) planning to destroy the Dwarven race itself (since the race was made in these forges)... it has the noble quest elements (averting global genocide and a huge shift in power as the Goodly Races would suddenly be much weaker v. Orcs/Trolls/Goblins/et al.) and will go over better with your players than destroying (or even preventing the creation of) an evil artifact. It will give you NPCs who'll provide helpful info (Dwarves who want help) and climactic battles (Dwarven armies, maybe with allies from other races, fighting a war to keep the bad armies away whilst the PCs fight the BBEGs). I'm also assuming you want your players to be able to use this forge. Don't nerf it with a Indiana Jones-Last Crusade sort of What Is Made Here Can Never Leave caveat... that's just weak. And don't use Deus Ex Machina to destroy (or make them destroy) the forge before they get a chance to use it. But it's obviously game over once they get this sort of power _ even one item made in the forge you describe would be God-Powerful, unless your players are dumb enough to limit themselves to indestructible wands of magic missile and wishes for rootbeer floats. So I would let the PCs make what they want, at which point they'll be epic level characters with The Best Gear In The Universe (or at least gear as good as what the gods carry, and you might want to check up on what the gods carry so you don't let them make stuff more powerful than the rules would allow...there is gear listed in Deities and Demigods, or you could just limit the total enchantment or something). At that point have Moradin or the god of the particular forge you use pop up and tell them they're almost ready to ascend to godhood. All they need to do is contribute to creation, that is, to use the forge to create a mortal race. Have them come up with stats, physical description, cultural description, alignment, everything the Monster Manual would have and more. Let them make this race as powerful/weak/good/evil/etc. as they want, but make sure you balance it with Level Adjustment. The PCs create the race and then ascend to godhood, and the adventure's over...OR IS IT??? (dramatic minor chord) Well the NEXT adventure (with new level-one PCs) will be the next day (or year), in the world that suddenly has members of the new race popping up (this is why it was important to make the new race balanced with Level Adjustment). If the players did a good job on the race and you want to let them play it (assuming no crazy-LA), that could be fun. Also potentially fun would be if the players really screwed up, if they created a race that's got a huge Level Adjustment, that's incredibly powerful... because what with power corrupting and everthing, this race is going to show up and start whomping the other races, taking land, nicking loot, etc. And now you have a new beastie for your PCs to fight (and they can't complain since their old characters MADE the race... it might also teach them a lesson as to why the gods chose not to make the mortal races more powerful than they did, and put that player who always wants to play a half-giant-half-dragon psion in his/her place). Oh, and since their old PCs are now gods you have new deities to work with. Have new religions founded with clerics of "insert-PC-name" and such (unless you want them to be the patron gods of the new race).

Anyway, I hope there are at least one or two things you can use in all this...
Comus
12-05-06, 11:30 AM What you have is an idea for a magic item, not a campaign. Figure out why the forge is important aside from its functional and historic value, then get back to me.
Kargush
12-06-06, 04:59 AM Actually, the forge is part of an adventure. You see, it is located in a hideously remote and difficult to reach location, and noone has as yet braved the journey, since it's only a volcano, and million miles(or atleast a hideous distance of wasteland) to cross before getting there, and the rewards have thus far not been worth it(or else it would have been found long ago). Hence, it is unknown(not even the gods remember it...).
SunTzuWarmaster
12-06-06, 11:02 AM Correct, and you have stated that they will find it at or about level 20. The question is, what happens before then? Is there on-going war over the forge? Is the forge hidden so well that only the wisest scholars have heard of it?
How do the PC's find out about it's existence? It's location? It's properties?
Is it on land owned by a king/nobility? Is it taxable?
Who can use it? Who gaurds it?
Are there already weapons made there?
Are great weapons made in the forge turning the tide in an existing war?
Where do the PC's start?
Why hasn't anyone found it yet?
What enemies will the PCs figh to get there? Vampires? Undead? Constructs? town guard?

Like an above poster said, it sounds like an awesome item, but a campaign consists of logic, motivations, NPCs, backstabbing, gathering information, fighting enemies, and generally constructing peices of a puzzle so that the puzzle can then be solved.

You have a good start with: Something powerful exists Somewhere. What it does is less important (at the begining of the campaign), than why it is there, NPC motivations around it, where it is, and whatnot.
Kargush
12-07-06, 10:34 AM OK, to recap and add:

The forge is completely unknown, even the gods themselves have forgotten about it. And the area it is located in is a wasteland, a barren desert where noone lives, and where noone has any power. It is not part of any of the realms. It's remote locations means that the reasources needed to get to the mountain means noone is willing to risk it, since the expence could all too easily outweight the gains. After all, first they'd have to cross a large ocean, a large mountain chain(think At the Mountains of Madness), the desert wasteland, and then find the forge in a cave in a volcano(an unstable volcano).

The PC's will fight whatever monsters are appropriate untill they get to the wastes and the volcano, which are filled with undead, spirits, constructs(left by the forge god), and various other nefarious things. After all, quite a few challenging things like warm places... [insert evil cackle]

So, any thoughts?
SunTzuWarmaster
12-07-06, 11:11 AM Yes, getting alot better. Of course you are going to have to place various measures of civilization about (A city with a seaport before the large ocean would be a good call). You need a way for the characters to find out that such a forge exists in order for them to try to go and find it.

A side-quest or two on the way there would be a good call (players seem to get bored if the entire adventure is getting to a place, at least in my experience).

Try to figure out what they will be encountering in the ocean (sea monsters, a kraken, pirates, merfolk/sauhuagin war?), in the mountains (minotaurs? forgetten dwarven city filled with orcs, drow underdark, a friendly gnomish mining camps, storm giants?), and in the desert (desert elves, a desert trading camp, evil desert elves, an underground passage, magical areas where mirages come true?)

Give them a few short-term goals to solve on the way there, and you've got a campaign, yay!
Divel Unwin
12-07-06, 03:35 PM If you want to wrap your brain around a good way to set this up, think about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade...

Your PCs are young and enthusiastic explorers (or if you need a hook, after you get them working together, a mystery evolves from a dead relative who was researching the history of the Great Forge) and come across facts regarding the forge's location. Its not the exact location, but its a step towards finding out more.

Once you get them on the road to tracking down clues, slowly introduce an array of reoccuring villians that are also aware of recently surfaced facts regarding the forge's whereabouts:

1- An obsessed treasure hunter who has dedicated WAY too much of his time towards finding the forge and making a name for himself (and an incredible amount of money). He can be a Conjuror who has made a number of contacts throughout the planes for clues and information (maybe even a few small packs with outsiders)

2- A powerful noble family that has controlled magic item trade through one of the largest business networks in the world. Their family crest can be found in almost every major city and port. They learned of the forge's ability and are working hard to stop those who are searching or claim it for their own

3a- A powerful tyrannical leader of a kingdom was recently (last 20 years or so) removed from power by a number of heroes who destroyed a great artifact he used to rule. He has gone into hiding with what was left of his council and faithful minions. Learning of the new information regarding the Great Forge and its location, he wishes to reforge the great artifact and resume rule of his kingdom.

3b- A group of experienced adventurers are trying to find the Great Forge to prevent a tyrannical ex-king from reforging a powerful evil artifact. They find the PCs naive and unfit for the task. Unfortunately, their decade old fame has gone to their head when it comes to their own (now faded) ability to get the job done.

4- A druidic cult believes that the forges discovery will men the beginning of a polluted age of magical industry. In order to stop this terrible fate, they are using all of their resources to find the forge first and discover a way to destroy it.

5- One of the world's greatest craftsmen (insert craft specialty here) has heard of the of the renewed search for the Great Forge and is looking to create his last and greatest work before his death. He has a reputation and a number of friends and contacts he uses to try and follow those who are looking for it.

These reoccurring characters would definitely supply enough conflict and adventure to see the PCs well into epic levels. You can even have the PCs try and side with one eventually to determine the fate of the Great Forge. Its and awesome way to slowly introduce your PCs to a huge world of politics and colorful NPCs!!

Have fun!!!!! :D
Kargush
12-14-06, 03:24 AM Nice ideas... I'll ponder upon them, and see what I get...

The basic idea was that as the PCs gain levels, they'll find clues, minor hints at best, that there might be something there. Something along the lines of "some volcano somewhere cointains a treasure". Once they find out that "hey, there is an unexplored volcano!" they'll be set to go...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kargush 12-05-06, 04:39 AM	I have an idea for a campaign I am developing. According to the legends I intend to scatter about in the campaign world, the diety of the forge(as yet un-named)once had several forges scattered across the Material Plane, but now they are all destroyed in a large war that almost destroyed the planes. That is, all but one, hidden in a hideously remote location(the PC's will likely be epic before they get to it). Now, these forges are unique. You see, items forged in them(or it, as is the case here) cannot be destroyed except in the forge it was created in... Also, magic items created there do not cost exp, nor do they cost anything except for the cost of the base material. In effect, cheap and reliable magic items gallore. However, I intend to make it so that atleast one member of the party must be a worshipper of this god for them to use the forge. So, I ask, what do you think? Any ideas of what level it should be set at? Or maybe some advice on the actual idea?
antsterr 12-05-06, 09:06 AM	Well, expect world war to break out over it. Perhaps it requires the ability to rebuke or command Fire elementals so that way you'd need a cleric with the domain of fire to operate the forge. Do you still need to be able to cast the spell needed and have the craft magic arms and armour feet? There should be some restrictions on what you can make. If it's a forge that can only be used by one or two people at a time it would somewhat limit it's world wide significance.
BlueBlazer 12-05-06, 11:29 AM	I have no idea if this will apply to your world, but I'll spit it out anyway... it's what I would do. Oh, and whether you use any of this or not, don't let them anywhere near the forge until they're at least level 20ish. The standard Dwarven creation myth (Moradin made the Dwarves) is wrong, or at least incorrectly remembered. There was (is) a pantheon of Dwarven gods, each of whom had a forge where they each made a part of the First Dwarf (maybe a physical part like "torso", but I'd do something like "courage" , "honor", "strength", "nobility of beard", etc.) and Moradin put these parts together in his forge and gave the whole the spark of life. These forges are obviously the über-powerful forges you mentioned (maybe they're not all destroyed, maybe they're all hidden/were lost in the Big War and one has been/will be discovered and located?). Now you could do a One Of The Dwarven Gods Was Evil/Fell From Grace kind of deal but I think that's a little cliché, I personally would go with the one forge that's 'found' being the forge of the god (True Neutral) who gave the Dwarves 'greed' (or 'treasure lust' however you want to put it) or maybe Moradin's forge itself. Then again, I don't suppose it matters which (whose) forge is found. Still, the Greed God is cool. I'm assuming you'll have other people (NPCs and Baddies... pretty much the whole planet, or at least those powerful enough to Brave The Journey) trying to get at this forge, with the requisite Don't Let Them Find It/Beat Them To The Clue/etc. quests. Since you said that items made in a forge can only be destroyed in that forge I'm thinking you're planning on a Cracks Of Doom Destroy The Evil Artifact sort of LoTR quest, which I would advise against. If you're going to do something like that I'd do an Evil Minion Of Evil God (or Actual Evil God) planning to destroy the Dwarven race itself (since the race was made in these forges)... it has the noble quest elements (averting global genocide and a huge shift in power as the Goodly Races would suddenly be much weaker v. Orcs/Trolls/Goblins/et al.) and will go over better with your players than destroying (or even preventing the creation of) an evil artifact. It will give you NPCs who'll provide helpful info (Dwarves who want help) and climactic battles (Dwarven armies, maybe with allies from other races, fighting a war to keep the bad armies away whilst the PCs fight the BBEGs). I'm also assuming you want your players to be able to use this forge. Don't nerf it with a Indiana Jones-Last Crusade sort of What Is Made Here Can Never Leave caveat... that's just weak. And don't use Deus Ex Machina to destroy (or make them destroy) the forge before they get a chance to use it. But it's obviously game over once they get this sort of power _ even one item made in the forge you describe would be God-Powerful, unless your players are dumb enough to limit themselves to indestructible wands of magic missile and wishes for rootbeer floats. So I would let the PCs make what they want, at which point they'll be epic level characters with The Best Gear In The Universe (or at least gear as good as what the gods carry, and you might want to check up on what the gods carry so you don't let them make stuff more powerful than the rules would allow...there is gear listed in Deities and Demigods, or you could just limit the total enchantment or something). At that point have Moradin or the god of the particular forge you use pop up and tell them they're almost ready to ascend to godhood. All they need to do is contribute to creation, that is, to use the forge to create a mortal race. Have them come up with stats, physical description, cultural description, alignment, everything the Monster Manual would have and more. Let them make this race as powerful/weak/good/evil/etc. as they want, but make sure you balance it with Level Adjustment. The PCs create the race and then ascend to godhood, and the adventure's over...OR IS IT??? (dramatic minor chord) Well the NEXT adventure (with new level-one PCs) will be the next day (or year), in the world that suddenly has members of the new race popping up (this is why it was important to make the new race balanced with Level Adjustment). If the players did a good job on the race and you want to let them play it (assuming no crazy-LA), that could be fun. Also potentially fun would be if the players really screwed up, if they created a race that's got a huge Level Adjustment, that's incredibly powerful... because what with power corrupting and everthing, this race is going to show up and start whomping the other races, taking land, nicking loot, etc. And now you have a new beastie for your PCs to fight (and they can't complain since their old characters MADE the race... it might also teach them a lesson as to why the gods chose not to make the mortal races more powerful than they did, and put that player who always wants to play a half-giant-half-dragon psion in his/her place). Oh, and since their old PCs are now gods you have new deities to work with. Have new religions founded with clerics of "insert-PC-name" and such (unless you want them to be the patron gods of the new race). Anyway, I hope there are at least one or two things you can use in all this...
Comus 12-05-06, 11:30 AM	What you have is an idea for a magic item, not a campaign. Figure out why the forge is important aside from its functional and historic value, then get back to me.
Kargush 12-06-06, 04:59 AM	Actually, the forge is part of an adventure. You see, it is located in a hideously remote and difficult to reach location, and noone has as yet braved the journey, since it's only a volcano, and million miles(or atleast a hideous distance of wasteland) to cross before getting there, and the rewards have thus far not been worth it(or else it would have been found long ago). Hence, it is unknown(not even the gods remember it...).
SunTzuWarmaster 12-06-06, 11:02 AM	Correct, and you have stated that they will find it at or about level 20. The question is, what happens before then? Is there on-going war over the forge? Is the forge hidden so well that only the wisest scholars have heard of it? How do the PC's find out about it's existence? It's location? It's properties? Is it on land owned by a king/nobility? Is it taxable? Who can use it? Who gaurds it? Are there already weapons made there? Are great weapons made in the forge turning the tide in an existing war? Where do the PC's start? Why hasn't anyone found it yet? What enemies will the PCs figh to get there? Vampires? Undead? Constructs? town guard? Like an above poster said, it sounds like an awesome item, but a campaign consists of logic, motivations, NPCs, backstabbing, gathering information, fighting enemies, and generally constructing peices of a puzzle so that the puzzle can then be solved. You have a good start with: Something powerful exists Somewhere. What it does is less important (at the begining of the campaign), than why it is there, NPC motivations around it, where it is, and whatnot.
Kargush 12-07-06, 10:34 AM	OK, to recap and add: The forge is completely unknown, even the gods themselves have forgotten about it. And the area it is located in is a wasteland, a barren desert where noone lives, and where noone has any power. It is not part of any of the realms. It's remote locations means that the reasources needed to get to the mountain means noone is willing to risk it, since the expence could all too easily outweight the gains. After all, first they'd have to cross a large ocean, a large mountain chain(think At the Mountains of Madness), the desert wasteland, and then find the forge in a cave in a volcano(an unstable volcano). The PC's will fight whatever monsters are appropriate untill they get to the wastes and the volcano, which are filled with undead, spirits, constructs(left by the forge god), and various other nefarious things. After all, quite a few challenging things like warm places... [insert evil cackle] So, any thoughts?
SunTzuWarmaster 12-07-06, 11:11 AM	Yes, getting alot better. Of course you are going to have to place various measures of civilization about (A city with a seaport before the large ocean would be a good call). You need a way for the characters to find out that such a forge exists in order for them to try to go and find it. A side-quest or two on the way there would be a good call (players seem to get bored if the entire adventure is getting to a place, at least in my experience). Try to figure out what they will be encountering in the ocean (sea monsters, a kraken, pirates, merfolk/sauhuagin war?), in the mountains (minotaurs? forgetten dwarven city filled with orcs, drow underdark, a friendly gnomish mining camps, storm giants?), and in the desert (desert elves, a desert trading camp, evil desert elves, an underground passage, magical areas where mirages come true?) Give them a few short-term goals to solve on the way there, and you've got a campaign, yay!
Divel Unwin 12-07-06, 03:35 PM	If you want to wrap your brain around a good way to set this up, think about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade... Your PCs are young and enthusiastic explorers (or if you need a hook, after you get them working together, a mystery evolves from a dead relative who was researching the history of the Great Forge) and come across facts regarding the forge's location. Its not the exact location, but its a step towards finding out more. Once you get them on the road to tracking down clues, slowly introduce an array of reoccuring villians that are also aware of recently surfaced facts regarding the forge's whereabouts: 1- An obsessed treasure hunter who has dedicated WAY too much of his time towards finding the forge and making a name for himself (and an incredible amount of money). He can be a Conjuror who has made a number of contacts throughout the planes for clues and information (maybe even a few small packs with outsiders) 2- A powerful noble family that has controlled magic item trade through one of the largest business networks in the world. Their family crest can be found in almost every major city and port. They learned of the forge's ability and are working hard to stop those who are searching or claim it for their own 3a- A powerful tyrannical leader of a kingdom was recently (last 20 years or so) removed from power by a number of heroes who destroyed a great artifact he used to rule. He has gone into hiding with what was left of his council and faithful minions. Learning of the new information regarding the Great Forge and its location, he wishes to reforge the great artifact and resume rule of his kingdom. 3b- A group of experienced adventurers are trying to find the Great Forge to prevent a tyrannical ex-king from reforging a powerful evil artifact. They find the PCs naive and unfit for the task. Unfortunately, their decade old fame has gone to their head when it comes to their own (now faded) ability to get the job done. 4- A druidic cult believes that the forges discovery will men the beginning of a polluted age of magical industry. In order to stop this terrible fate, they are using all of their resources to find the forge first and discover a way to destroy it. 5- One of the world's greatest craftsmen (insert craft specialty here) has heard of the of the renewed search for the Great Forge and is looking to create his last and greatest work before his death. He has a reputation and a number of friends and contacts he uses to try and follow those who are looking for it. These reoccurring characters would definitely supply enough conflict and adventure to see the PCs well into epic levels. You can even have the PCs try and side with one eventually to determine the fate of the Great Forge. Its and awesome way to slowly introduce your PCs to a huge world of politics and colorful NPCs!! Have fun!!!!! :D
Kargush 12-14-06, 03:24 AM	Nice ideas... I'll ponder upon them, and see what I get... The basic idea was that as the PCs gain levels, they'll find clues, minor hints at best, that there might be something there. Something along the lines of "some volcano somewhere cointains a treasure". Once they find out that "hey, there is an unexplored volcano!" they'll be set to go...