An idea... A Dragon Campaign. [Archive] - Wizards Community

An idea... A Dragon Campaign. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blackshade
12-30-07, 06:44 AM I had this idea for a Dragon Campaign as my next campaign, where every player is a dragon of their choosing. I would have them all choose there dragon race and then I would look at the ages of each dragon and have all the LA be equal as I saw fit.

as in all of them would be +3 LA but they might be a different age depending on their chosen dragon.

The few conflicts I saw were that I am not quite sure how to level them up and that I wasn't sure if certain dragons should be banned.
Avatar of Kokusho
12-30-07, 07:38 AM There are rules for dragons as player characters set forth in the Draconomicon.

My personal suggestion (to make gameplay easier) is that if everyone has the same level adjustment, eliminate it. Im my opinion, LA are there to balance PCs against other PCs. If the DM takes into account the effective level of the party when designing challenges, then LA is pointless except to hinder character growth. If they're balanced against each other, then effective level is pointless...especially if they're all of equivalent capability, as most baby dragons are.

If you're worried about certain dragon types, you may with to eliminate access to the gem dragons due to psi-like abilities. Shadow dragons have an energy draining breath weapon (though it sucks at low level). Fang dragons don't have a breath weapon at all, but their bite deals Con drain. All metallic dragons have two breath weapons, as do certain other types.
Chrono Nexus
12-30-07, 08:12 AM It can work, better too if all the players are dragons. Mostly metallic or good aligned would be best.
Although there's nothing wrong with playing evil dragons, it's very unlikely you would find two in the same company at all- their greed and agression would drive them apart. In fact, greed would split apart any party of dragons eventually- but as long as the party characters are young it shouldn't matter. Dragons don't really start collecting for a hoard until the young adult stage (they still like treasure though).
metalmayhem80110
12-30-07, 08:47 PM For role-playing reasons I'd try to set it up so each of the party members is a different color dragons.

Each of the dragons has a different outlook on how things should be done, and different motivations.

It would be kinda fun.
Seth
12-30-07, 11:03 PM I have done this type of campaign before and it was entertaining to say the least. I will say that combat can be rather lengthy and tedious, but admittedly no more so than an epic level game.

I can’t remember what issue of Dungeon had the dragon progressions in terms of level breakdown, but if you can find something similar it would probably be helpful.
Derren S.
12-31-07, 06:38 AM 320 for good dragons I think. The evil ones came later (326?).

There was also a 2nd Edition Dragon Campaign Setting called Council of Wyrms.
zeratulcraft
12-31-07, 06:58 AM 320 for good dragons I think. The evil ones came later (326?).

There was also a 2nd Edition Dragon Campaign Setting called Council of Wyrms.

320 for Metallic and 332 for Chromatic, by my count, but yeah close.
Blackshade
01-01-08, 11:17 PM Wow thanks for all the replies guys I'm gonna look up on all that great stuff you mentioned in the Draconomicon. After hearing you talk about the LA it would make alot more sense to jusst eliminate it. I can factor that in to... Thanks for all the great advice.

Thanks for the list of certain dragons to. I didnt want certain players being to overpowered to everyone else which was the main issue I had with this campaign.

Thanks again. If any of you have any other experiences with a campaign like this feel free to throw them out there.
Magrus
01-02-08, 12:46 AM One thing you'll want to bear in mind. Each dragon type has a different power level. If you have one character being a Brass Dragon and another being a Gold Dragon, the Gold could eat the Brass, no problem. Different HD and ECL for each age category, and you may end up needing to juggle things with adding class levels or something to balance them out between the different dragon types.

It may be easier for you to pick an ECL, and let the characters choose from one alignment base of dragons. Say, "Pick Metallic or Chromatic, and everyone gets a dragon hatchling of the type they want from one of those that you all decide on. You can pick up to a ECL 12 dragon. If your ECL for your dragon is below that, you can either advance up to the next age category if it fits within ECL 12, or add class levels to match ECL 12." 12, just because that allows Gold Dragon Hatchlings, and everything below it in power level from the base dragons. 11 would be Silver and Red at the top of the scale, excluding Gold, and so on down the line.

I would go against dropping the LA. It's not just to balance other players. It comes into play when you end up dealing as a DM to see what level you use when finding XP for challenges met. The LA on top of their HD and Class Levels is included when you cross check ECL vs CR to find XP. If you throw a group of 4 Gold hatchlings (ECL 12) at a CR 12 encounter, it should be even match. If you calculate the party as ECL 8 because you dropped the 4 LA involved, the XP changes significantly.

According to the encounter calculator I used, the difference would be going from 900 XP each to 2400 XP each gained. You will end up rapid fire leveling everyone and they'll miss out on exploring the abilities of their characters.
Blackshade
01-02-08, 04:06 AM One thing you'll want to bear in mind. Each dragon type has a different power level. If you have one character being a Brass Dragon and another being a Gold Dragon, the Gold could eat the Brass, no problem. Different HD and ECL for each age category, and you may end up needing to juggle things with adding class levels or something to balance them out between the different dragon types.

It may be easier for you to pick an ECL, and let the characters choose from one alignment base of dragons. Say, "Pick Metallic or Chromatic, and everyone gets a dragon hatchling of the type they want from one of those that you all decide on. You can pick up to a ECL 12 dragon. If your ECL for your dragon is below that, you can either advance up to the next age category if it fits within ECL 12, or add class levels to match ECL 12." 12, just because that allows Gold Dragon Hatchlings, and everything below it in power level from the base dragons. 11 would be Silver and Red at the top of the scale, excluding Gold, and so on down the line.

I would go against dropping the LA. It's not just to balance other players. It comes into play when you end up dealing as a DM to see what level you use when finding XP for challenges met. The LA on top of their HD and Class Levels is included when you cross check ECL vs CR to find XP. If you throw a group of 4 Gold hatchlings (ECL 12) at a CR 12 encounter, it should be even match. If you calculate the party as ECL 8 because you dropped the 4 LA involved, the XP changes significantly.

According to the encounter calculator I used, the difference would be going from 900 XP each to 2400 XP each gained. You will end up rapid fire leveling everyone and they'll miss out on exploring the abilities of their characters.

Wow I hadn't thought of that. Thanks so much. I'll try and look it over myself and see how it works. I might have to experiment a little with it. thanks for the number crunch to.
Magrus
01-02-08, 11:17 AM No problem, good luck with your game.
Blackshade
01-02-08, 07:08 PM Thanks.
StevenO
01-02-08, 11:22 PM I'd once again mention the 2ed Council of Wyrms setting which was put out a both a boxes set and a hard cover but it has already been mentioned. It is still an interesting resource although the "crunch" needs serious updating.

When running an all PC dragon campain I'd definitely get rid of most LA. The problem is for the game to be most logical all the PCs should be the same age (following the CoW example) which does lead to differing racial HD for each species of dragon. The solution to that is have all the PCs level by racial HD but wait for age increases until the slowest reaches the correct HD level; in the mean time allow the faster levelers (ie the weaker dragon species) to level up in some PC classes which should help them stay on par with the power of their larger HD brethern. It may be a good idea to penalize the PC class XP a bit to keep the weaker species from catching up all in one age.
BoringInfoGuy
01-03-08, 12:05 AM Back in AD&D I ran a Council of Wyrms game. It's more difficult to run a dragon based game, but can be rewarding. (Be prepared, for example, to know the flight rules VERY well).

I've been playing with the idea of running a 3rd edition version of the Council of Wyrms for a while now. I just don't have the time to DM at all right now. Sigh.

Back on topic:

The Draconomicon is a must have book for this type of game. And one of the few books that I consider a true supplement instead of a splatbook.

Oh, and don't deny the players a chance to play the gem dragons. There's a little crystal dragon known as Shard that will be sad if you do.

(Yes, I'm biased.)
lifeblender
01-03-08, 05:05 AM A friend of mine and I had an idea for running this style of campaign in Eberron. A group of young dragons (around ECL 10-15) that, in youthful arrogance and greed, rebel against the older dragons attitude of, "We're going to live on an island away from all the humanoids and not eat them or take their stuff." They are powerful, but not ridiculously so, and fly to Khorvaire to see what tasty treats and interesting treasures await, as well as seeing humanoid civilization first-hand. At first, their problems would involve picking their battles (fueled by player curiousity), but eventually real plot would probably be needed.
tuby2008theMTGwizard
01-03-08, 04:14 PM use draconimicin, it wil be of great help

use some non-basic dragons. Pick up MM2 and use the gemhides, they are just as fun, and DMing it could be eaiser, since they are all neutral

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blackshade 12-30-07, 06:44 AM	I had this idea for a Dragon Campaign as my next campaign, where every player is a dragon of their choosing. I would have them all choose there dragon race and then I would look at the ages of each dragon and have all the LA be equal as I saw fit. as in all of them would be +3 LA but they might be a different age depending on their chosen dragon. The few conflicts I saw were that I am not quite sure how to level them up and that I wasn't sure if certain dragons should be banned.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-30-07, 07:38 AM	There are rules for dragons as player characters set forth in the Draconomicon. My personal suggestion (to make gameplay easier) is that if everyone has the same level adjustment, eliminate it. Im my opinion, LA are there to balance PCs against other PCs. If the DM takes into account the effective level of the party when designing challenges, then LA is pointless except to hinder character growth. If they're balanced against each other, then effective level is pointless...especially if they're all of equivalent capability, as most baby dragons are. If you're worried about certain dragon types, you may with to eliminate access to the gem dragons due to psi-like abilities. Shadow dragons have an energy draining breath weapon (though it sucks at low level). Fang dragons don't have a breath weapon at all, but their bite deals Con drain. All metallic dragons have two breath weapons, as do certain other types.
Chrono Nexus 12-30-07, 08:12 AM	It can work, better too if all the players are dragons. Mostly metallic or good aligned would be best. Although there's nothing wrong with playing evil dragons, it's very unlikely you would find two in the same company at all- their greed and agression would drive them apart. In fact, greed would split apart any party of dragons eventually- but as long as the party characters are young it shouldn't matter. Dragons don't really start collecting for a hoard until the young adult stage (they still like treasure though).
metalmayhem80110 12-30-07, 08:47 PM	For role-playing reasons I'd try to set it up so each of the party members is a different color dragons. Each of the dragons has a different outlook on how things should be done, and different motivations. It would be kinda fun.
Seth 12-30-07, 11:03 PM	I have done this type of campaign before and it was entertaining to say the least. I will say that combat can be rather lengthy and tedious, but admittedly no more so than an epic level game. I can’t remember what issue of Dungeon had the dragon progressions in terms of level breakdown, but if you can find something similar it would probably be helpful.
Derren S. 12-31-07, 06:38 AM	320 for good dragons I think. The evil ones came later (326?). There was also a 2nd Edition Dragon Campaign Setting called Council of Wyrms.
zeratulcraft 12-31-07, 06:58 AM	320 for good dragons I think. The evil ones came later (326?). There was also a 2nd Edition Dragon Campaign Setting called Council of Wyrms. 320 for Metallic and 332 for Chromatic, by my count, but yeah close.
Blackshade 01-01-08, 11:17 PM	Wow thanks for all the replies guys I'm gonna look up on all that great stuff you mentioned in the Draconomicon. After hearing you talk about the LA it would make alot more sense to jusst eliminate it. I can factor that in to... Thanks for all the great advice. Thanks for the list of certain dragons to. I didnt want certain players being to overpowered to everyone else which was the main issue I had with this campaign. Thanks again. If any of you have any other experiences with a campaign like this feel free to throw them out there.
Magrus 01-02-08, 12:46 AM	One thing you'll want to bear in mind. Each dragon type has a different power level. If you have one character being a Brass Dragon and another being a Gold Dragon, the Gold could eat the Brass, no problem. Different HD and ECL for each age category, and you may end up needing to juggle things with adding class levels or something to balance them out between the different dragon types. It may be easier for you to pick an ECL, and let the characters choose from one alignment base of dragons. Say, "Pick Metallic or Chromatic, and everyone gets a dragon hatchling of the type they want from one of those that you all decide on. You can pick up to a ECL 12 dragon. If your ECL for your dragon is below that, you can either advance up to the next age category if it fits within ECL 12, or add class levels to match ECL 12." 12, just because that allows Gold Dragon Hatchlings, and everything below it in power level from the base dragons. 11 would be Silver and Red at the top of the scale, excluding Gold, and so on down the line. I would go against dropping the LA. It's not just to balance other players. It comes into play when you end up dealing as a DM to see what level you use when finding XP for challenges met. The LA on top of their HD and Class Levels is included when you cross check ECL vs CR to find XP. If you throw a group of 4 Gold hatchlings (ECL 12) at a CR 12 encounter, it should be even match. If you calculate the party as ECL 8 because you dropped the 4 LA involved, the XP changes significantly. According to the encounter calculator I used, the difference would be going from 900 XP each to 2400 XP each gained. You will end up rapid fire leveling everyone and they'll miss out on exploring the abilities of their characters.
Blackshade 01-02-08, 04:06 AM	One thing you'll want to bear in mind. Each dragon type has a different power level. If you have one character being a Brass Dragon and another being a Gold Dragon, the Gold could eat the Brass, no problem. Different HD and ECL for each age category, and you may end up needing to juggle things with adding class levels or something to balance them out between the different dragon types. It may be easier for you to pick an ECL, and let the characters choose from one alignment base of dragons. Say, "Pick Metallic or Chromatic, and everyone gets a dragon hatchling of the type they want from one of those that you all decide on. You can pick up to a ECL 12 dragon. If your ECL for your dragon is below that, you can either advance up to the next age category if it fits within ECL 12, or add class levels to match ECL 12." 12, just because that allows Gold Dragon Hatchlings, and everything below it in power level from the base dragons. 11 would be Silver and Red at the top of the scale, excluding Gold, and so on down the line. I would go against dropping the LA. It's not just to balance other players. It comes into play when you end up dealing as a DM to see what level you use when finding XP for challenges met. The LA on top of their HD and Class Levels is included when you cross check ECL vs CR to find XP. If you throw a group of 4 Gold hatchlings (ECL 12) at a CR 12 encounter, it should be even match. If you calculate the party as ECL 8 because you dropped the 4 LA involved, the XP changes significantly. According to the encounter calculator I used, the difference would be going from 900 XP each to 2400 XP each gained. You will end up rapid fire leveling everyone and they'll miss out on exploring the abilities of their characters. Wow I hadn't thought of that. Thanks so much. I'll try and look it over myself and see how it works. I might have to experiment a little with it. thanks for the number crunch to.
Magrus 01-02-08, 11:17 AM	No problem, good luck with your game.
Blackshade 01-02-08, 07:08 PM	Thanks.
StevenO 01-02-08, 11:22 PM	I'd once again mention the 2ed Council of Wyrms setting which was put out a both a boxes set and a hard cover but it has already been mentioned. It is still an interesting resource although the "crunch" needs serious updating. When running an all PC dragon campain I'd definitely get rid of most LA. The problem is for the game to be most logical all the PCs should be the same age (following the CoW example) which does lead to differing racial HD for each species of dragon. The solution to that is have all the PCs level by racial HD but wait for age increases until the slowest reaches the correct HD level; in the mean time allow the faster levelers (ie the weaker dragon species) to level up in some PC classes which should help them stay on par with the power of their larger HD brethern. It may be a good idea to penalize the PC class XP a bit to keep the weaker species from catching up all in one age.
BoringInfoGuy 01-03-08, 12:05 AM	Back in AD&D I ran a Council of Wyrms game. It's more difficult to run a dragon based game, but can be rewarding. (Be prepared, for example, to know the flight rules VERY well). I've been playing with the idea of running a 3rd edition version of the Council of Wyrms for a while now. I just don't have the time to DM at all right now. Sigh. Back on topic: The Draconomicon is a must have book for this type of game. And one of the few books that I consider a true supplement instead of a splatbook. Oh, and don't deny the players a chance to play the gem dragons. There's a little crystal dragon known as Shard that will be sad if you do. (Yes, I'm biased.)
lifeblender 01-03-08, 05:05 AM	A friend of mine and I had an idea for running this style of campaign in Eberron. A group of young dragons (around ECL 10-15) that, in youthful arrogance and greed, rebel against the older dragons attitude of, "We're going to live on an island away from all the humanoids and not eat them or take their stuff." They are powerful, but not ridiculously so, and fly to Khorvaire to see what tasty treats and interesting treasures await, as well as seeing humanoid civilization first-hand. At first, their problems would involve picking their battles (fueled by player curiousity), but eventually real plot would probably be needed.
tuby2008theMTGwizard 01-03-08, 04:14 PM	use draconimicin, it wil be of great help use some non-basic dragons. Pick up MM2 and use the gemhides, they are just as fun, and DMing it could be eaiser, since they are all neutral