An intresting problem; Evil [Archive] - Wizards Community

An intresting problem; Evil [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FoxYerSox
08-03-06, 03:01 PM ok, so i play a PC with a diffrent group than the one i want to DM for, and i wanted to spice things up a bit by making an evil necromancer, or a drow cleric (with proper lvl adjustment for sure) that is forced to travle with the party. the problem comes when i prepose this idea to my DM, he immidetly shuts the idea down because evil cant travle with good...i dont think thats true at all. i mean it cant just be a group of goodly paladins travling together all the time right? i keep hearing the excuse from our elf whenever he shots into melee and hits us "Im Chaotic Neautral!" uhg hate that...but anyway that seems prettyt evil to me...so anyway, i figured i could use some other DM advice in this situation.
rhflyweyr
08-03-06, 03:13 PM Although I have had groups where they mixed everything from LG to CE, it creates a huge potential for intergroup conflict that detracts from the story. IF you had a good reason why this evil necromancer would be traveling with the others in the group I personally would allow it, but i dont fault any DM that doesnt want that headache. More than asking for an overpowered prestige class, a funky race, or special treatment... this gives a lot of work to the DM. Im sure as you are a DM as well, you know that a big part of plot is motivators. The good guys get to help, the CN rogues get money, but the motives for an evil character are far from easy to incorporate.

My recommendation: choose a new character concept.
Meyverya
08-03-06, 03:13 PM Um, yeah. If a PC randomly attacks their party, I'm Chaotic Neutral doesn't suffice. So many people play their CN characters as if the N were really an E or CN really meant CC. Chaotic Crazy. Insanity is represented by low wisdom, so unless the player has a wisdom of 3, that shouldn't happen. As for good travelling with evil, it can work... with DM co-operation... and only for a very short time. You can have your DM keep quiet about your alignment and if you make sure not tell other players of your evil it can work. Now mind you, if you're a dread necromancer who travels with his entourage of corpses or a drow who constantly plots and murders, this isn't possible. But if you can be subtly evil you can travel with them... for a short period of time until you're revealed. Now, if you're interested in having your character travel with good guys and eventually being redeemed or the evil that your character possesses is like a Docter Jekyll and Mr. Hyde kinda thing ( you constantly fight the evil, but must give into it now and then), it can make an amazing plot point. After becoming attached or even friendly with your player, upon discovering your evil they can try to help you. THAT works, but being a unredeemable, totally monstrous evil person doesn't work in a good party.
Zombayz1
08-03-06, 03:16 PM Can we have this in english, or even engrish? Just so we can read it y'know.

Capitalization wouldn't hurt either.
Stumm_Dolch
08-03-06, 03:17 PM You don't want to do it unless the other players are cool with it too. They will probably give you crap every chance they get. If your DM says no, respect his ruling and move on. Address your concerns with the other player as a different subject (it is anyway).

This is hardly an interesting problem as you suggested in your post. Play by your DMs rules or don't play.
FoxYerSox
08-03-06, 03:20 PM hmm ok i see. i like the fighting evil constantly kinda thing...yeah ok ill run that by my DM. and my whole argument to it, was that you dont have to be killing babys or trying to rule the world to be evil. like maybe hes trying to find a certine item for his own use and decides that travling with others is a good way to achive this...or perhaps a "evil brother" who travles with his brothers companions but knows theres no way to kill them all so hes kinda forced to at the threat of his own life if he tried anything...that kinda thing. but ok i like the fighting evil inside you part
rhflyweyr
08-03-06, 03:23 PM /me notes that the poster didn't get it at all.
FoxYerSox
08-03-06, 03:26 PM and this isnt a kinda thing where im crying about it. im just trying to find a way to make it work if my DM really says "no way" then that will be the end of it and ill move on, im not so juvinal thatd i stop playing because i dont get to be evil.
FoxYerSox
08-03-06, 03:27 PM and this isnt a kinda thing where im crying about it. im just trying to find a way to make it work if my DM really says "no way" then that will be the end of it and ill move on, im not so childish thatd i stop playing because i dont get to be evil.
FoxYerSox
08-03-06, 03:28 PM ack double post x.x
wrecan
08-03-06, 03:51 PM ok, so i play a PC with a diffrent group than the one i want to DM for, and i wanted to spice things up a bit by making an evil necromancer, or a drow cleric (with proper lvl adjustment for sure) that is forced to travle with the party. the problem comes when i prepose this idea to my DM, he immidetly shuts the idea down because evil cant travle with good...i dont think thats true at all. i mean it cant just be a group of goodly paladins travling together all the time right?

"Good" and "Evil" are not baseball teams where you can be traded. They are moral (or immoral) attitudes. Your question indicates you don't actually understand the alignment system at all.

The question isn't whether good and evil people can work together, but rather whether your specific character (who happens to be evil) could work with the other characters in the party (some of whom happen to be good).

i keep hearing the excuse from our elf whenever he shots into melee and hits us "Im Chaotic Neautral!" uhg hate that...

Your elf cannot justify his actions based on his alignment. The alignment is determined by the elf's actions, not the other way around. If he is acting evil (and firing into melee with a chance of hitting an ally is not evil in most campaigns), then his alignment would shift. It's not written in stone, you know.
albinomonkeyking
08-03-06, 04:13 PM To put it simply, some people make a good aligned character who would not travel with an evil one, and he just might not be a paladin. It is all in how the characters are made. If your DM is good at what he does he knows your evil character would not mix with the other PC's and has denied you.

There are times in my games when even a Neutral alignment can screw up the group (not anything to do with my part, sometimes the other people you play with simply play uber good or exalted characters)

Also, yes, evil can work with good, but having an idea that you are forced to work with them could go very poorly. It implies your character does not want to work with them, but a large part of D&D is the party system, if you are going to play your character true-blue he will be trying to rid himself of his companions at practically every twist.

For future purposes if you want to play evil with a non-evil party the easiest way would be to make a normal evil, no crazy random killing, who has a purpose that aligns with the other PC's and friendship should, or, could develop so you will have more of a reason to stick around with them. Good luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FoxYerSox 08-03-06, 03:01 PM	ok, so i play a PC with a diffrent group than the one i want to DM for, and i wanted to spice things up a bit by making an evil necromancer, or a drow cleric (with proper lvl adjustment for sure) that is forced to travle with the party. the problem comes when i prepose this idea to my DM, he immidetly shuts the idea down because evil cant travle with good...i dont think thats true at all. i mean it cant just be a group of goodly paladins travling together all the time right? i keep hearing the excuse from our elf whenever he shots into melee and hits us "Im Chaotic Neautral!" uhg hate that...but anyway that seems prettyt evil to me...so anyway, i figured i could use some other DM advice in this situation.
rhflyweyr 08-03-06, 03:13 PM	Although I have had groups where they mixed everything from LG to CE, it creates a huge potential for intergroup conflict that detracts from the story. IF you had a good reason why this evil necromancer would be traveling with the others in the group I personally would allow it, but i dont fault any DM that doesnt want that headache. More than asking for an overpowered prestige class, a funky race, or special treatment... this gives a lot of work to the DM. Im sure as you are a DM as well, you know that a big part of plot is motivators. The good guys get to help, the CN rogues get money, but the motives for an evil character are far from easy to incorporate. My recommendation: choose a new character concept.
Meyverya 08-03-06, 03:13 PM	Um, yeah. If a PC randomly attacks their party, I'm Chaotic Neutral doesn't suffice. So many people play their CN characters as if the N were really an E or CN really meant CC. Chaotic Crazy. Insanity is represented by low wisdom, so unless the player has a wisdom of 3, that shouldn't happen. As for good travelling with evil, it can work... with DM co-operation... and only for a very short time. You can have your DM keep quiet about your alignment and if you make sure not tell other players of your evil it can work. Now mind you, if you're a dread necromancer who travels with his entourage of corpses or a drow who constantly plots and murders, this isn't possible. But if you can be subtly evil you can travel with them... for a short period of time until you're revealed. Now, if you're interested in having your character travel with good guys and eventually being redeemed or the evil that your character possesses is like a Docter Jekyll and Mr. Hyde kinda thing ( you constantly fight the evil, but must give into it now and then), it can make an amazing plot point. After becoming attached or even friendly with your player, upon discovering your evil they can try to help you. THAT works, but being a unredeemable, totally monstrous evil person doesn't work in a good party.
Zombayz1 08-03-06, 03:16 PM	Can we have this in english, or even engrish? Just so we can read it y'know. Capitalization wouldn't hurt either.
Stumm_Dolch 08-03-06, 03:17 PM	You don't want to do it unless the other players are cool with it too. They will probably give you crap every chance they get. If your DM says no, respect his ruling and move on. Address your concerns with the other player as a different subject (it is anyway). This is hardly an interesting problem as you suggested in your post. Play by your DMs rules or don't play.
FoxYerSox 08-03-06, 03:20 PM	hmm ok i see. i like the fighting evil constantly kinda thing...yeah ok ill run that by my DM. and my whole argument to it, was that you dont have to be killing babys or trying to rule the world to be evil. like maybe hes trying to find a certine item for his own use and decides that travling with others is a good way to achive this...or perhaps a "evil brother" who travles with his brothers companions but knows theres no way to kill them all so hes kinda forced to at the threat of his own life if he tried anything...that kinda thing. but ok i like the fighting evil inside you part
rhflyweyr 08-03-06, 03:23 PM	/me notes that the poster didn't get it at all.
FoxYerSox 08-03-06, 03:26 PM	and this isnt a kinda thing where im crying about it. im just trying to find a way to make it work if my DM really says "no way" then that will be the end of it and ill move on, im not so juvinal thatd i stop playing because i dont get to be evil.
FoxYerSox 08-03-06, 03:27 PM	and this isnt a kinda thing where im crying about it. im just trying to find a way to make it work if my DM really says "no way" then that will be the end of it and ill move on, im not so childish thatd i stop playing because i dont get to be evil.
FoxYerSox 08-03-06, 03:28 PM	ack double post x.x
wrecan 08-03-06, 03:51 PM	ok, so i play a PC with a diffrent group than the one i want to DM for, and i wanted to spice things up a bit by making an evil necromancer, or a drow cleric (with proper lvl adjustment for sure) that is forced to travle with the party. the problem comes when i prepose this idea to my DM, he immidetly shuts the idea down because evil cant travle with good...i dont think thats true at all. i mean it cant just be a group of goodly paladins travling together all the time right? "Good" and "Evil" are not baseball teams where you can be traded. They are moral (or immoral) attitudes. Your question indicates you don't actually understand the alignment system at all. The question isn't whether good and evil people can work together, but rather whether your specific character (who happens to be evil) could work with the other characters in the party (some of whom happen to be good). i keep hearing the excuse from our elf whenever he shots into melee and hits us "Im Chaotic Neautral!" uhg hate that... Your elf cannot justify his actions based on his alignment. The alignment is determined by the elf's actions, not the other way around. If he is acting evil (and firing into melee with a chance of hitting an ally is not evil in most campaigns), then his alignment would shift. It's not written in stone, you know.
albinomonkeyking 08-03-06, 04:13 PM	To put it simply, some people make a good aligned character who would not travel with an evil one, and he just might not be a paladin. It is all in how the characters are made. If your DM is good at what he does he knows your evil character would not mix with the other PC's and has denied you. There are times in my games when even a Neutral alignment can screw up the group (not anything to do with my part, sometimes the other people you play with simply play uber good or exalted characters) Also, yes, evil can work with good, but having an idea that you are forced to work with them could go very poorly. It implies your character does not want to work with them, but a large part of D&D is the party system, if you are going to play your character true-blue he will be trying to rid himself of his companions at practically every twist. For future purposes if you want to play evil with a non-evil party the easiest way would be to make a normal evil, no crazy random killing, who has a purpose that aligns with the other PC's and friendship should, or, could develop so you will have more of a reason to stick around with them. Good luck!