Post/Author/DateTime	Post
snakeman830 09-11-07, 10:20 PM	This started out as a joke, but now we may have a problem. My Elf necropolitan Warlock, Richard, has been carrying around the severed head of a gang leader for a while. Since he never learned the guy's name, his skull is named George. Richard has been carrying George with him ever since he killed the gang leader. Recently, he got the idea to get George worshippers. Well, now George is about to recieve his first divine rank, since he has enough followers. I think you can see the problem. George remains an object, but is about to become a demigod due to the rules or worship. How would this work? Oh, and Richard pretends that George only speaks to him, and through him, the word and teachings of George must be spread.
Lormador 09-11-07, 10:25 PM	It's just like anything else becoming a demigod. First, I'd grant the objects sentience and some appropriate powers. It's up to you what the personality of the object will be like. Once it has mental stats and a form of locomotion, you can give it divine powers. I'd advise giving it some sort of limited communication ability, at least, so it can communicate with its owner. All Hail George!
Shadowhowler 09-11-07, 10:38 PM	Sounds pretty damn silly to me... I'd say since it is an object, and has no seintience and or soul... it can not gain any divine rank, even if the whole friggin world worships it.
Sixam 09-11-07, 10:46 PM	Introduce a charming Bard who claims to be the true voice of George's will on Yurth.
Tiefling_Warlock 09-11-07, 10:47 PM	I'd say you'd get the rank I mean, they are effectively worshiping you right?
nova head 09-11-07, 11:03 PM	This George intrigues me... also it has given me a great idea for a God (He is a severed head but posses a host that carries him) he is going to be a earth bound god and probably going to be the Arch-evil guy in the next campaign. The following will be called The Holders. (AKA:Holders of the Head) Hhhmm Symbol a severed head with a open palm behind it. They use animated body parts instead of full undead... I also got some key spells for his followers to...Hhhmm Magic Skull:As the spell 'Magic Stone' Except as follows: 1 to 2 Skulls are used and the damage is 1d10 against Undead, and 2d10 against the living. Hhmm I must ponder this new Organization.
damixmastermike 09-11-07, 11:43 PM	This started out as a joke, but now we may have a problem. My Elf necropolitan Warlock, Richard, has been carrying around the severed head of a gang leader for a while. Since he never learned the guy's name, his skull is named George. Richard has been carrying George with him ever since he killed the gang leader. Recently, he got the idea to get George worshippers. Well, now George is about to recieve his first divine rank, since he has enough followers. I think you can see the problem. George remains an object, but is about to become a demigod due to the rules or worship. How would this work? Oh, and Richard pretends that George only speaks to him, and through him, the word and teachings of George must be spread. This is the funniest, stupidest and most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in DnD. Personally, I wouldn't follow the rules so closely to allow a severed head to be give a divine rank. Sure he has followers... but... he's a severed head. I'd say you'd get the rank I mean, they are effectively worshiping you right? I agree with this. ALL HAIL GEORGE.
Anathema 09-12-07, 12:17 AM	Well, I would have never let things get to this situation in the first place. It's not like the people were forced in to worshipping it, you made it this way. That being said, what would likely happen is that another deity fills in for George the Skull; one who's portfolio is most similar to that of what George's would be. It would not seem this way to the worshippers, but they would really be worshipping a higher deity. Especially if this is Forgotten Realms. In FR, deities aren't made by worshippers, they're made by Ao.
Starcloud 09-12-07, 12:23 AM	You can worship anything in 3rd edition and gain power from it.
Talisman 09-12-07, 12:28 AM	ALL HAIL GEORGE! To answer your question, make him a Tiny-size animated object, add Intelligence (and thus, skills & feats), and then the Divine Rank. If you like, change his type to Undead instead of Construct. If George fought Banjo...hmm...
yellowdingo 09-12-07, 07:07 AM	ALL HAIL GEORGE! To answer your question, make him a Tiny-size animated object, add Intelligence (and thus, skills & feats), and then the Divine Rank. If you like, change his type to Undead instead of Construct. If George fought Banjo...hmm... NERULL Spots an opportunity...sends back the soul of the gangleader to take charge of all those divine ranks... "look, your a god now so I cant officially hold on to your soul...its a common courtesy thing." Shadowhowler is wrong though...even an object can be the focus of divine ranks...if people worship it. "Bow down before the Mace of St Cuthbert..." "THough Shalt not Worhip False Idols!" "But its your Mace..." Wow suddenly the Idol could be more important than the God. What are the odds of that happening again? IDOL WORSHIP: An Idol can recieve Divine Ranks despite non-sentience. It cannot use those Ranks but the Worshipers can for influence and sway (if a god radiates FEAR...so does an idol).
snakeman830 09-12-07, 08:46 AM	Perhaps I should point out that I am not the DM. However, this is more of a question for DM's than players, so it got posted here (It's also on the Dieties board). Plus, the DM asked me to bring it here. All Hail George!!!
Aendvari 09-12-07, 11:21 AM	What is very funny to me is that I had a PC do something similar with a gem he found in a tomb...he also named it George. He began obsessing over the gem, even embedding it into his chest at one point. I took the opportunity to have a demigod notice the PC and began speaking with him through the gem. "I am George, worship me" sort of thing. "George" has now become the focal point of the party (he's causing some problems elsewhere in the world), but all along George is manipulating the group through that PC :) Maybe consider something like this instead of making the object sentient?
TiwazTyrsfist 09-12-07, 12:24 PM	Have the head start trying to convince Richard to get him a body. Any body. Take the head off, put George on, George takes over the body.
soldyne 09-12-07, 12:36 PM	I like the idea. this particular instance seems to be a little silly, but, the idea is sound. if you put a more serious twist on the events I don't see why an inanimate object can't gain sentience if enough people worship it (I am talking about the game of course, not real life ;) ) I think I will adapt this to my own world.
Angel Black 09-12-07, 01:04 PM	This started out as a joke, but now we may have a problem. My Elf necropolitan Warlock, Richard, has been carrying around the severed head of a gang leader for a while. Since he never learned the guy's name, his skull is named George. Richard has been carrying George with him ever since he killed the gang leader. Recently, he got the idea to get George worshippers. Well, now George is about to recieve his first divine rank, since he has enough followers. I think you can see the problem. George remains an object, but is about to become a demigod due to the rules or worship. How would this work? Oh, and Richard pretends that George only speaks to him, and through him, the word and teachings of George must be spread. In fact George now is a rank 2 demigod, because he got my worship :D No trouble at all, in real life there are tons of tribes that worship objects.some ideas? 2001 - A Space Odyssey The Gods Must Be Crazy http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/21GF9BSBTRL._AA115_.jpg Zardoz Wizard of Oz http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31PFR7QZ1VL._AA115_.jpg Also George Clerics will get power of a CAUSE.
Mecha_Pope 09-12-07, 01:33 PM	I would say that since they'll all worshiping the skull of the afore-mentioned bandit leader, that bandit leader would recieve the divine ranks. Bad day for Richard, as George probibly won't have very fond memories of him.
Roac 09-12-07, 01:42 PM	Well as far as this topic goes the question has yet to be asked, if George were to gain sentience would he regain memories and keep his disposition from his former life, or since he is being worshiped as George would he gain an entirely new sentience independent of his former life . . . assuming his name WASN'T actually George. If the former is true he may be very upset with his "prophet". Also if the latter is true could there be trouble if someone were to attempt to resurrect him? Or possibly George might be a god with a split personality as a result? Let alone how his body may now be a sacred relic of great importance and power. The possibilities are endless.
Angel Black 09-12-07, 02:13 PM	I would say that since they'll all worshiping the skull of the afore-mentioned bandit leader, that bandit leader would recieve the divine ranks. Bad day for Richard, as George probibly won't have very fond memories of him. That's the beauty of this, they are not worshipping the dead bandit, they are worshipping..."a guy named George".
Aliquid 09-12-07, 03:57 PM	I'd say you'd get the rank I mean, they are effectively worshiping you right?I'd disagree with this. The following is just my opinion, and there are no rules to back it up: A bit of fluff I just made up off the top of my head - Think of the power of faith as an "energy" source. When a large number of people worship you they are telepathically sending their “faith energy” to you. When you absorb enough of this "faith energy" you get divine ranks. The trick with this interpretation is that the worshippers are deciding who they are sending their "faith energy" to. So it doesn’t matter if you are effectively talking through the skull. What matters is that the worshippers believe that the skull is sentient and they are sending their energy to it…. not you. So the question is… can an inanimate object absorb the faith energy? Personally I think it would be fun to use Planescape philosophy on this. i.e. if enough people believe that the skull is sentient… then the skull becomes sentient (as a result of the power of their belief.)
Thubby 09-12-07, 04:07 PM	reminds me of a banjo weilding puppet we all know... funny idea, if you actualy want to work it out though, id do one of 2 things.consider the worship as the player's, since they are his ideals, beliefs, and so on, and the head is only a proxy, not to mention it is possible to siphon divine power from a sentient being, how hard can it be to do to a dead guys head? or, their worship creates an entity in the image of the head, with all the same abilites and domains associated with its head-avatar.
Manus 09-12-07, 04:27 PM	Don't bash George. After all, I worship my iphone. Something to throw at your player though.... Richard has been pretending that George has been speaking through him. When George becomes sentient, it's not written anywhere that the 'holy bearer of George' gets to be high priest. What if George starts by granting clerical spells to one of the other followers. Also, now that George can speak for itself, he may disagree with some of the things Richard has claimed in George's name.
ElvenOutlaw 09-12-07, 04:49 PM	I would say that since they'll all worshiping the skull of the afore-mentioned bandit leader, that bandit leader would recieve the divine ranks. Bad day for Richard, as George probibly won't have very fond memories of him. Personally if I was DMing and even let it get as far as a skull having the chance to gain divine ranks, This is what I would do. "George" comes back from the dead with divine power. Angry for being killed in the first place but brought back as a GOD by the same person. Could prove to be a very powerful enemy or an friend now for the party.
Lincoln Hills 09-12-07, 06:01 PM	...Angry for being killed in the first place but brought back as a GOD by the same person... GEORGE: Since you are responsible for my apotheosis, lowly mortal, I shall grant you a boon. You can never die. You are immortal and will recover from any wound, even if it reduces you to dust. RICARD: And people thought I was an inbred mutton-head for carrying a skull around for seventeen years. Thanks, George! GEORGE: Which brings us to your punishment for daring to slay my prior, mortal incarnation and repeatedly, mockingly desecrating his remains. I am going to place you between two crushing plates of spiked iron, and transport you to a doorless cavern far beneath the surface of the far side of the moon. Bye.
mlund 09-12-07, 07:54 PM	The skull becomes an idol deity, just like any other random primitive idol worshiped by a bunch of random shmucks. It has no direct connection to either the owner or the original bandit - its identity is defined by the expectations of the worshipers that managed to install it with a divine rank. It isn't any different than a bunch of deranged elf-hippies worshiping some especially pretty tree until it achieved demi-god status. - Marty Lund
BoringInfoGuy 09-12-07, 08:08 PM	You can worship anything in 3rd edition and gain power from it. No, you can worship a deity, or another source of divine power. That is not the same as saying anything worshiped is a source of divine power.
weasel0 09-12-07, 08:12 PM	No, you can worship a deity, or another source of divine power. That is not the same as saying anything worshiped is a source of divine power. I dunno... it worked out for Banjo.
snakeman830 09-12-07, 08:37 PM	I dunno... it worked out for Banjo. Yes it did (and he only had three worshippers). I only remembered that after I put the plan into motion, however. So, basically, the responses can all be organized into five: 1. Nothing can possibly happen 2. George will be taken by another god/his original owner 3. George will attain sentience and become a god 4. George will become an idol 5. Richard will gain the divine ranks instead If I missed any, please let me know.
Angel Black 09-12-07, 10:29 PM	So, basically, the responses can all be organized into five: 1. Nothing can possibly happen 2. George will be taken by another god/his original owner 3. George will attain sentience and become a god 4. George will become an idol 5. Richard will gain the divine ranks instead If I missed any, please let me know. 1 - If the worshippers have faith then this is not an option. 2 - The original owner of the skull can't come back,he is food for demons now.(only resurrection can bring him back) 3- Maybe. 4- Maybe. 5- Never.
PhaedrusXY 09-12-07, 10:46 PM	GEORGE: Since you are responsible for my apotheosis, lowly mortal, I shall grant you a boon. You can never die. You are immortal and will recover from any wound, even if it reduces you to dust. RICARD: And people thought I was an inbred mutton-head for carrying a skull around for seventeen years. Thanks, George! GEORGE: Which brings us to your punishment for daring to slay my prior, mortal incarnation and repeatedly, mockingly desecrating his remains. I am going to place you between two crushing plates of spiked iron, and transport you to a doorless cavern far beneath the surface of the far side of the moon. Bye.Exxxxxxxxxxcellent, Smithers.
Thubby 09-12-07, 11:43 PM	1 - If the worshippers have faith then this is not an option. 2 - The original owner of the skull can't come back,he is food for demons now.(only resurrection can bring him back) 3- Maybe. 4- Maybe. 5- Never. 1- misplaced faith wont always get results, many demons are worshiped and you dont see many clerics of (generic balor #12). a few 3.0 books mention it, and as far as i know 3.5 remains silent on the issue. 2- deities can come back from the dead (which is closer to non existence). something as trivial as death wouldnt be much of a barrier. especialy when the soul still exists. 5-i don't see why not
yellowdingo 09-13-07, 07:16 AM	WORSHIP & DIVINE RANKS OF POWER A Divine Focus: The act of worship creates Divine Ranks of Power. It matters not if the focus of that worship is a living Being, a location of significance, an object of attention, or a Philosophical standpoint. Conceivably this allows holy places such as the Caves of Perpetual Chanting to become Divine in their own right. A statue of a frog might be worshiped by cultists until it is achieves divine ranks, even a child considered to be the next godking might become so through the worship of followers. Even the Philosophy of Chaos has Divine Ranks otherwise we wouldnt allow Clerics to Get their spells from a Philosophical Pursuit.
Radijs 09-13-07, 05:09 PM	WORSHIP & DIVINE RANKS OF POWER A Divine Focus: The act of worship creates Divine Ranks of Power. It matters not if the focus of that worship is a living Being, a location of significance, an object of attention, or a Philosophical standpoint. Conceivably this allows holy places such as the Caves of Perpetual Chanting to become Divine in their own right. A statue of a frog might be worshiped by cultists until it is achieves divine ranks, even a child considered to be the next godking might become so through the worship of followers. Even the Philosophy of Chaos has Divine Ranks otherwise we wouldnt allow Clerics to Get their spells from a Philosophical Pursuit. Are you quoting a source or just stating your own opinion?
snakeman830 09-13-07, 09:39 PM	WORSHIP & DIVINE RANKS OF POWER A Divine Focus: The act of worship creates Divine Ranks of Power. It matters not if the focus of that worship is a living Being, a location of significance, an object of attention, or a Philosophical standpoint. Conceivably this allows holy places such as the Caves of Perpetual Chanting to become Divine in their own right. A statue of a frog might be worshiped by cultists until it is achieves divine ranks, even a child considered to be the next godking might become so through the worship of followers. Even the Philosophy of Chaos has Divine Ranks otherwise we wouldnt allow Clerics to Get their spells from a Philosophical Pursuit. Are you quoting a source or just stating your own opinion? Yeah, that'd be really nice to know.
nickcan 09-14-07, 01:56 AM	Don't worry about what the rules allow you to do here. Think of it as a great evil plot opportunity. for example: Some ancient, evil, and forgotten god for banished from your world thousands of years ago. He sees this as his big chance to come back. He makes a deal with the bandit leaders soul and now is the rightful owner of the dead bandit leader's soul. As such he is able to get a toehold in the universe again. His goal at the moment is to do everything in his power to keep that head ("George") intact. So from the parties point of view they have just became lucky. Good things are happening to them and life is going great. Until the evil god decides to strike...
yellowdingo 09-14-07, 07:14 AM	Are you quoting a source or just stating your own opinion? I'm making a ruling and when they put it in edition 4...you may not join the cue to worship me. Some Worshipers are not equal to others...
Radijs 09-14-07, 08:16 AM	I'm making a ruling and when they put it in edition 4...you may not join the cue to worship me. Some Worshipers are not equal to others... http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/WEBIMAGES/CARTOON/v042-nyarly.jpg
BoringInfoGuy 09-14-07, 02:27 PM	I dunno... it worked out for Banjo. OotS is a great comic. Funny, clever, and well executed. But I would never use it as a rules source. For example, can you tell me what is wrong in this strip? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html
Aliquid 09-14-07, 02:46 PM	OotS is a great comic. Funny, clever, and well executed. But I would never use it as a rules source. For example, can you tell me what is wrong in this strip? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.htmlUnless my memory is foggy... that would have actually technically worked with 3.0 rules. 3.5 "fixed" that issue.
BoringInfoGuy 09-14-07, 04:44 PM	Unless my memory is foggy... that would have actually technically worked with 3.0 rules. 3.5 "fixed" that issue. Possibly, I'd have to check my old books. However, the very 1st Order of the Stick comic - at least on the web site's archive - shows the title characters changing to 3.5 edition. So this is not a case of it being an older comic written during the older rules. (BTW, no, I have never sent an e-mail to the author complaining about his mistake, or gone on his forums to complain. It's a funny web comic about D&D gaming. The D&D rules are used as long as it can provide a joke. My only point is that OotS is not a good source to support a D&D rules argument.)
Aliquid 09-14-07, 05:12 PM	However, the very 1st Order of the Stick comic - at least on the web site's archive - shows the title characters changing to 3.5 edition. So this is not a case of it being an older comic written during the older rules.Good point. (BTW, no, I have never sent an e-mail to the author complaining about his mistake, or gone on his forums to complain.It's amazing how many people complain on his forums about stuff like that..... My only point is that OotS is not a good source to support a D&D rules argument.)Well no.... I don't suppose it is.
Thubby 09-14-07, 07:13 PM	Unless my memory is foggy... that would have actually technically worked with 3.0 rules. 3.5 "fixed" that issue. im not seeing what is the problem with that tactic, care to fill me in?
1red13 09-14-07, 10:11 PM	I'm just wondering who is worshipping this decaying head. Are these monsters or just really dumb humans. Not to be a spoilsport but really what average intelligence or slighlty worse person says to themselves "Wow look at this talking head being held by this guy. There is no possibly explanation for this to happen. I better strike while the iron is hot and worship this ..... thing known simply as George." At what point did it go from being an admittedly really good joke to people seriously worshipping .....well a dead head.
snakeman830 09-14-07, 10:34 PM	I'm just wondering who is worshipping this decaying head. Are these monsters or just really dumb humans. Not to be a spoilsport but really what average intelligence or slighlty worse person says to themselves "Wow look at this talking head being held by this guy. There is no possibly explanation for this to happen. I better strike while the iron is hot and worship this ..... thing known simply as George." At what point did it go from being an admittedly really good joke to people seriously worshipping .....well a dead head. Lets put it this way: It's amazing what a good bluff will accomplish, especially when everything seems to fit.
Orbb_was_railed_by_God 09-15-07, 12:59 PM	I think you gave him followers too easily. Take the bible: OT: Yahweh destroys hundreds of Israelites, Amorites, Amelikalites (sp?), Soddom&Gomorrah, performs great fiery miracles etc etc. Yet he still abandons the Israelites because for some god-forsaken reason they still keep going back to other gods. NT: Jesus resurrects 2 people and then HIMSELF, heals god knows how many hundreds of people off the bat, and the jews are still convinced he isnt the son of god and kill him. Exactly what did your "cleric of George" do in the way of miracles and insightful wisdom to persuade people?
snakeman830 09-16-07, 05:03 PM	I think you gave him followers too easily. Take the bible: OT: Yahweh destroys hundreds of Israelites, Amorites, Amelikalites (sp?), Soddom&Gomorrah, performs great fiery miracles etc etc. Yet he still abandons the Israelites because for some god-forsaken reason they still keep going back to other gods. NT: Jesus resurrects 2 people and then HIMSELF, heals god knows how many hundreds of people off the bat, and the jews are still convinced he isnt the son of god and kill him. Exactly what did your "cleric of George" do in the way of miracles and insightful wisdom to persuade people? Sheez, I've already said I'm not the DM here. Ask him why they all decided to follow. I am just spreading George's message of silence (i.e. everyone's dead), destruction, mayhem, and grisly humor. (plus, he wields the mighty artifact: The Fork of Truth!!!) Richard is not a cleric. After all, George is not divine yet, so he would gain nothing by gaining a level of cleric (plus, Richard worships Erthunyl). As for so-called miracles: George (actually Richard) had stopped the warring between two factions that had been fighting for longer than anyone can remember. The hatred between the two had been compared to the Blood Wars, and he brought them to peace incredibly quickly. In reality, George/Richard and a half-Blue dragon had taken control of the factions. Both Richard and Lord Constantinople (the half-blue) pretended to follow this skull, so the factions figured it was a powerful being and worship for George began. These were the first converts to the Chruch of George. After that, a chain reaction began picking up more converts. Naturally, this was not the last "miracle", but only the first and most remembered one. Me and the guy who plays Lord Constantinople are planning our next "miracle" to pull off. And NEVER preach christianity to me again. I may be a P.K., but I'm agnostic.
Amadan 09-17-07, 12:48 PM	The skull becomes an idol deity, just like any other random primitive idol worshiped by a bunch of random shmucks. It has no direct connection to either the owner or the original bandit - its identity is defined by the expectations of the worshipers that managed to install it with a divine rank. It isn't any different than a bunch of deranged elf-hippies worshiping some especially pretty tree until it achieved demi-god status. - Marty Lund That would be my take on it. The skull [idol] would have no connection to its former life or body, unless the slain bandit figures predominately in the 'religion'
DaemeonBlack 09-17-07, 02:26 PM	I had a similar thing happen in one of my games. My character went off the deep end when the paladin in the party he worshiped left and he went a lot crazy. We killed a Hydra and he took one of the skulls, cleaned all of the flesh off and went around talking through it. “Hydra skull says we should go to town.” “Hydra skull says we should loop around and attack the bandits from behind.” “Hydra skull says we should help the cleric with his problem.” Needless to say it was hilariously fun times and made for a very unique character. When I was killed the party decided to not resurrect me as the crazy guy was too out there, they looted me and gave me a good burial with the skull on the grave marker. I don’t think anyone would have worshipped the skull even if I tried but it would have been good times if they had. Now that I got my off topic story that was inspired by the on topic at hand I think this can make for some hilarious circumstances if the DM plays it right. I think it should gain sentience and become a minor god. I think it should have some residual memories of its bandit lord origins but be a new being that has the attributes the worshippers think it has. The ability to negotiate a last peace treaty between hated enemies, speak to its herald, etc. I would allow it to only speak to it’s primary herald at this time but start talking to others soon. I also think it should grow to hate it’s current herald by trying to use George for his own ends and residual memories of him killing and dismembering George before he was what he is now. I think this would be a hilarious campaign arc if played right.
Holy_Beholder 09-17-07, 07:01 PM	I think you gave him followers too easily. Take the bible: OT: Yahweh destroys hundreds of Israelites, Amorites, Amelikalites (sp?), Soddom&Gomorrah, performs great fiery miracles etc etc. Yet he still abandons the Israelites because for some god-forsaken reason they still keep going back to other gods. NT: Jesus resurrects 2 people and then HIMSELF, heals god knows how many hundreds of people off the bat, and the jews are still convinced he isnt the son of god and kill him. Exactly what did your "cleric of George" do in the way of miracles and insightful wisdom to persuade people? George lived in a world where magic was really common, so that works for him. Also the romans killed Jesus, not the Jews. And the bible really isn't a historical work when it comes to this sort of stuff, although some of the non divine stuff is pretty accurate, such as battles, and maybe David and Goliath(point black smack in the head from a sling would kill someone a lot bigger than you. Slings are powerful.) Also in the bible, not all of the miracles were spectacular, some of them were pretty coincidental. Others even if explained, and there are explanations would seem to be spectacular(splitting of the sea actually could have been done by a comet, but it would seem like magic. Kicking up some red reeds with your staff in the Nile so it looks bloody isn't quite the same.)
weasel0 09-17-07, 08:44 PM	And I believe the flaw is you only get 1 AoO in 3.5 for moving through opponents' squares. It doesn't matter how matter AoOs you get, once a person is moving through the squares they can run around you till the cows come home and you only get 1 AoO for it. Though I'm sure that by now, there's a 3rd party/WotC splat book that has a feat for charge=AoO so then yes, there'd be one for the moving part of the charge and then one for the attack at the end of the charge. But it's still two separte points there.
snakeman830 09-17-07, 09:23 PM	George lived in a world where magic was really common, so that works for him. Also the romans killed Jesus, not the Jews. And the bible really isn't a historical work when it comes to this sort of stuff, although some of the non divine stuff is pretty accurate, such as battles, and maybe David and Goliath(point black smack in the head from a sling would kill someone a lot bigger than you. Slings are powerful.) Also in the bible, not all of the miracles were spectacular, some of them were pretty coincidental. Others even if explained, and there are explanations would seem to be spectacular(splitting of the sea actually could have been done by a comet, but it would seem like magic. Kicking up some red reeds with your staff in the Nile so it looks bloody isn't quite the same.) You know, you've got a really good point. Some of the explanations of bible "miracles" * The parting of the Red Sea may have been the drawback before a tsunami. this would also explain why it crashed down on the Egyptians, killing every single one. * The Nile to blood (and the subsequent plagues) could have (and probably was) caused by an abnormally high flood of the Nile carrying red sedemints. Alternitively, it could have also been an algal bloom that produced toxins, killing the fish, repelling the frogs, and turning the water red all at the same time. *Jehrico: An earthquake probably hit to destroy the city walls.
Thubby 09-18-07, 02:38 PM	And I believe the flaw is you only get 1 AoO in 3.5 for moving through opponents' squares. It doesn't matter how matter AoOs you get, once a person is moving through the squares they can run around you till the cows come home and you only get 1 AoO for it. you would get 1 attack per opportunity up to your dex mod +1, doesnt matter who. you can't hit someone 3 times for one provoke with combat reflexes, but if they provoke 3 (say by running around you like a niny), you can hit them 3 times if you have a 14+ dex.
snakeman830 09-18-07, 04:50 PM	I'm with Weasel, it's probably time to stop the christianity debate. I checked in Dieties and Demigods, and the numbers of worshippers for the first divine rank are astoundingly low. I'm much closer than I thought and need a definite conclusion soon.
Laerekh_Jaelre 09-18-07, 05:28 PM	This totally reminds me of episodes in the Order of the Stick comics http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html
WizO_Autumn 09-18-07, 09:24 PM	I'm with Weasel, it's probably time to stop the christianity debate. I agree as well. Please leave real world religious discussion away from the gaming discussion. Thank you.
snakeman830 09-19-07, 06:46 PM	Okay, so I was wondering how to actually contact Wizards (Cust Survice or FAQ's), seeing as how I've never felt the need to do so before. Could anyone help? Meanwhile, I'm trying to decide on a portfolio for George (just in case). Any suggestions?
BoringInfoGuy 09-20-07, 09:13 PM	you would get 1 attack per opportunity up to your dex mod +1, doesnt matter who. you can't hit someone 3 times for one provoke with combat reflexes, but if they provoke 3 (say by running around you like a niny), you can hit them 3 times if you have a 14+ dex. Actually, no. From the SRD: Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus. A character can run spend his entire movement rate circling an opponent, but will only take one Attack of OPportunity for doing so. Doesn't matter if his opponent has combat expertise and a +6 dex modifier. It is one AOP for moving out of a threatened square per opponent per round. Think of it this way. Movement is considered one action. So you can only get one AOP for that action. Back on Topic. snakeman830: You are the DM. At the end of the day, it is your call. The PHB says that clerics can get their power from a Deity, or other source of Divine power. I tend to read that has meaning that you can get electricity from the outlet on your wall, or some other power source. Batteries, portable generator, solar panel, whatever. But to draw electricity from it, it needs to BE a source of electricity first. No matter how much you think that your coffee table is going to power your flashlight, it won't work. Clerics believe because it works, not it works because a cleric believes. In your world, it may be different. Now, there are several supplement books out there. Most of them I have not read. So there could be some ruling on this in Deities and Demigods or Complete Divine or some other book. But I think of the supplement books as being simply "official" optional rules. There is no need for you to follow them if you don't feel it fits with your campaign. (Technically, even the Core rules are optional. The difference is that players expect the Core rules to be followed, and reasonably expect reasonable explanations for any variations from Core). I'll say it again. It is your world. Don't let your players (or random forum posters) pressure you into making bad decisions. The enjoyment of your players should be a primary consideration for your decision, but it should remain YOUR decision. Looking back at the first post, I have a question. Are you asking as a player or DM? Being in the "What's a DM to do?" forum, I thought you were the DM with a warlock player. But rereading the first post, it seems that you are the warlock player asking how it works. Wish I checked that before I hit send. . . If you are the player, my advice changes to "It works the way the DM decides it works." His world, his call.
CCS 09-21-07, 07:18 AM	You can worship anything in 3rd edition and gain power from it. Not in my games.... :)
snakeman830 09-21-07, 07:31 AM	Actually, no. From the SRD: A character can run spend his entire movement rate circling an opponent, but will only take one Attack of OPportunity for doing so. Doesn't matter if his opponent has combat expertise and a +6 dex modifier. It is one AOP for moving out of a threatened square per opponent per round. Think of it this way. Movement is considered one action. So you can only get one AOP for that action. Back on Topic. snakeman830: You are the DM. At the end of the day, it is your call. The PHB says that clerics can get their power from a Deity, or other source of Divine power. I tend to read that has meaning that you can get electricity from the outlet on your wall, or some other power source. Batteries, portable generator, solar panel, whatever. But to draw electricity from it, it needs to BE a source of electricity first. No matter how much you think that your coffee table is going to power your flashlight, it won't work. Clerics believe because it works, not it works because a cleric believes. In your world, it may be different. Now, there are several supplement books out there. Most of them I have not read. So there could be some ruling on this in Deities and Demigods or Complete Divine or some other book. But I think of the supplement books as being simply "official" optional rules. There is no need for you to follow them if you don't feel it fits with your campaign. (Technically, even the Core rules are optional. The difference is that players expect the Core rules to be followed, and reasonably expect reasonable explanations for any variations from Core). I'll say it again. It is your world. Don't let your players (or random forum posters) pressure you into making bad decisions. The enjoyment of your players should be a primary consideration for your decision, but it should remain YOUR decision. Looking back at the first post, I have a question. Are you asking as a player or DM? Being in the "What's a DM to do?" forum, I thought you were the DM with a warlock player. But rereading the first post, it seems that you are the warlock player asking how it works. Wish I checked that before I hit send. . . If you are the player, my advice changes to "It works the way the DM decides it works." His world, his call. Yes, I am the player. The DM doesn't have internet and asked me to bring this here because he hasn't got a clue. Dieties and Demigods is silent on this issue. Either we don't have Complete Divine or it is silent as well, I'm not sure.
Suzu 09-21-07, 07:31 AM	ALL HAIL GEORGE! If George fought Banjo...hmm... Good lord that'd be a mess...
BoringInfoGuy 09-21-07, 04:37 PM	Yes, I am the player. The DM doesn't have internet and asked me to bring this here because he hasn't got a clue. Dieties and Demigods is silent on this issue. Either we don't have Complete Divine or it is silent as well, I'm not sure. Ok, that makes sense now. Well, you have my view. Worshiping an object won't grant it divine power. However, if your DM wants to play in a belief creates power type of game, he should consider the reactions of other deities in this case. Even good aligned deities may want to prevent further competition. And if it does get divine power, then your character may find he's gotten into more than he bargained for. For example, high priest could be the same as first slave. Just because your character created a deity it doesn't mean that he'll be able to CONTROL said deity.