An unbeliever... how to deal with just 1 player? [Archive] - Wizards Community

An unbeliever... how to deal with just 1 player? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Last City
05-19-06, 09:37 PM Im not trying to start a reality thread so PLEASE spare me the arguments on whats "real" and not in DND... my problem here is ONE player that seem to have an imaginary problem.

Among my group of 5, he is a DM & player ... now the problem is when i DM them and set a certain encounter that is out of the ordinary (example finding a kraken hidden below a temple as an encounter) : he would go "What the heck is that DM?"

The other players have no respond or basically dont have a problem to those situation... but im surprised that for a DM himself he could not cope with the "high-fantasy" situation. He is a big fan of the ebberon campaign and at times most of us in the group just "dont get it" what his campaign or plot are... in other words: whats cool and believable to him arent exactly in line with the rest of the team.

My problem is: How do i make situation bearable to this 1 player??? DND is about having fun but what happends when all other dont have an issue and only 1 guy is complaining?
Chrono Nexus
05-19-06, 09:43 PM ????
Just ignore him. If he doesn't like your plot or your ideas, he doesn't have to stick around. If he can learn to cope with whatever "flaws" you possess, he will.
DarkRhystar
05-19-06, 09:48 PM My problem is: How do i make situation bearable to this 1 player??? DND is about having fun but what happends when all other dont have an issue and only 1 guy is complaining?

I'd say the solution starts with you.

You say there's a Kraken under that temple? That certainly is an odd concept. Ask yourself how it got there. Where did it come from? Why does it stay there?

Maybe it was once a priestess of the temple. Perhaps the temple came under attack from below and the priestess transformed herself into a beast in order to protect it but shortly after lost control of the form. Maybe those of the temple decided that rather than slay one who risked her own life so selflessly to protect them that they would only restrain her and search for a way to dispel the magic.

No longer is it just a Kraken under a temple. Now it is a situation with a history.

The solution begins with you. As a DM, it is up to you to craft the world around your players. If you cannot justify the existence of something then you cannot expect your players to do so. Once you have a grasp on it, then and only then can you truly describe it to your players.

Make the world rich in history and background, and I think your player will no longer complain. :)
Last City
05-19-06, 09:55 PM Where did it come from? Why does it stay there?

Actually the PCs were given a whole long briefing about this temple and the whole history of why things end up as they did. A dwarven loremaster warned them of many nasties in the temple.

To put it in summary; the kraken is the guardian to a magic item to unlock a "water God" statue in another location of the dungeon. PCs actually picked up hints and tips along the way and could expect the kraken there... its just that when the actual encounter happend, the player went shaking his head finding it difficult to believe even after all the explaination and history and story...

so yes, i did my home work on "why" its there and "how"... the only thing i cant help is convincing him alone. This was a homebrew campaign by the way...
DarkRhystar
05-19-06, 10:02 PM Actually the PCs were given a whole long briefing about this temple and the whole history of why things end up as they did. <snip> This was a homebrew campaign by the way...

Awesome on both counts. My suggestion is just to go with it.

If your player isn't willing to suspend his disbelief then that is truly his loss.

I hope this problem sorts itself out for you. :)
TheFallenWriter
05-19-06, 10:04 PM Nice, well to put it bluntly, the PC is a b****** whiner, and pull him aside and tell him if he doesn't like how you DM, he can take his complaints elsewehre beuase he is disrupting *your* game and the rest of hte group's fun. Anohter thing you could do is make hte speak in character at the table, and have to give you a note asking you something out of character to get a response.

~The Fallen
ncquinta
05-19-06, 10:20 PM Just talk to him frankly. And don't allow too much metagamed discussion.
Last City
05-19-06, 10:22 PM :P maybe thats the problem... the group is VERY heavy meta-gamers... :weep:
TheFallenWriter
05-19-06, 10:28 PM Ah, meta-gamers, the scourge of the DM. Use evil tactics then, show a monster that looks different, use illusions to trick the people, don't od hte expected, or force htem to roleplay by subtracting some XP everytime they metagame.

~the Fallen
Tristan
05-19-06, 11:00 PM um...exactly how is he not beliveing it?

is it like a "It couldn't happen" type thing? then ask the bard to turn his skin blue while he is sleeping

I doupt its the "faires dont exist thing." cus then im sure him being dinner would convince him the Kraken is there.

honostly i dont get him.
Last City
05-19-06, 11:09 PM um...exactly how is he not beliveing it?

is it like a "It couldn't happen" type thing? then ask the bard to turn his skin blue while he is sleeping

I doupt its the "faires dont exist thing." cus then im sure him being dinner would convince him the Kraken is there.

honostly i dont get him.

Well this was what he said: " A kraken in a dungeon~~~... 1st we are exploring a dungeon, next we are 3000 leagues underwater..."

As far as the 3000 leagues part, i've explained that on the 2nd level under the dungeon, there was a secret giant hall behing the water temple they founded: the hall is enchanted and is actually a sort of portal connected to the plane of water where this kraken resides.

He went :rolleyes:
STAT
05-19-06, 11:23 PM So like if a wizard casts a fireball does he ask, "yeah and where did he pull that giant ball of fire out of hmmmm?" If not, then he's just nitpicking and if he does well then, D&D is not the game for him. In either case I think a liberal application of hammers and/or guns is the appropriate solution. Seriously though, I don't even know how you could approach someone like this. Sounds like he's just being difficult for difficulties sake. I mean, at some point you just have to say it's magic and roll with it.
rijeagle
05-20-06, 12:36 AM A DM and a player of D&D?? :eek:

As a guess, he'll make up an adventure himself and find it good, but all others are stupid and make no sense?

Is the sky blue because the deities made it so? Or is it blue because the atmosphere blocks the blue spectrum, thus you can see blue? How does he see it?

If he says the latter, he has no imagination and will soon lose interest in D&D.

If it continues, tell him, "Just go with it, we're here to play a game, not discuss the realities of an imaginary world of magic, dragons, and fairies."

Beyond that, I don't know dude...sorry.
Last City
05-20-06, 12:51 AM A DM and a player of D&D?? :eek:

As a guess, he'll make up an adventure himself and find it good, but all others are stupid and make no sense?

Yes! thats the point! The strange irony!!!
TheFallenWriter
05-20-06, 02:06 AM Nha, my adventures don't *suck* in teh sense of hte word. It is more like they are some kind of torture becuase I am the most inventive when we play (two of us take turns DMing), so when it comes my turn, I pull every trick I know on them :evillaugh:

~The Fallen
goblin_gronth
05-20-06, 02:11 AM not that this would go far, but ask for some respect. Not knowing how you are when he DM's but I was in a group that all three of us were DM's and would take turns. It was a common agreement that we respect the others ideas. We each had our own game worlds that we created so there was alot of things that were different from each other.
Guess it all depends on how good of friends your are. It worked for us. Not saying that it would for you but it might be something to say next time. *shrugs* :)
Reversefigure4
05-20-06, 02:52 AM That's... odd behaviour. If I'm following this right, he finds the situation unrealistic, and complains about it.

I've seen this done from an in-character perspective "My knowledge of nature tells me there's no way a Kraken should be here, there's no water around!" sort of thing, which makes good sense, and can add to the game as the PCs discover the reason for the oddness.

It sounds like you have the reasoning behind it, and the PCs should be aware that the temple is connected to the Water Plane, and to expect water creatures.

How can you convince him it makes sense? Really, you can't. If he chooses to stick his fingers in his ears and say "Nah, this sucks", there's not a lot you can do in game to change that.

Personally, I'd just ignore it.

"A Kraken in a temple? That's stupid."
"Yeah, sure. Roll initiative."
Archmage_Vall
05-20-06, 01:41 PM If this were happening in a game I was DM'ing, it would go something like this:

Him: A Kraken in a temple? :rolleyes:

Me: Yes, indeed. *rolls* Does a 28 hit?

Him: Yes *sigh* :rolleyes:

Me: Okay, *rolls again* the kraken backhands you with one of its tentacles for 26 (beeleeon) damage.

Him: *writes on character sheet* I'm dead. :rolleyes:

Me: The Kraken then grabs your corpse with its tentacles and eats it.

Him: This game sucks, I'm leaving. :rolleyes:

Me: Bye! :rolleyes:
Gold Medal Jedi
05-20-06, 02:02 PM Ok first question i have to ask is, have you asked him what his problem is? If he says what you have done is impossible, then carefully recount all the things you have done to not only make it possible but have foreshadowed the impending situation so that they weren't caught off guard by it. If he still doesnt get it, ask him what he would have done in your situation. Also remind him the disruption he has created in your game and then ask him why he insists on being this disruption. Honestly though as most have already said you are probably better off with either asking him to leave if doesnt desist in being the disruption you perceive, or just ignore him and continue on with the others who are obviously ok with the situation.
xver
05-20-06, 05:57 PM Your PC is just being uncooperative and mean spirited. You've put more effort into a logical explanation than the average dungeon crawl has for it's bizzaro ecology. Seriously, if he finds it that crazy, tell he can always attempt to disbelive it. Have him roll a Will save. No matter what he rolls, he'll fail, becuase it is real. Problem solved. (Unless you wish to punish him, in which case, he will disbelive it, but it'll still be there. He he he.)

Furthermore, the Three Thousand Leagues Under the Sea reference shows the glaring ignorance of your player. First off, the three thousand leagues is the distance the Nautilus travelled, not the depth. (The ocean isn't that deep, even in the deepest trenches.) Secondly, while the Nautilus did encounter a Kraken while near the ocean floor, and real life Giant Squid are largely deep sea creatures, the original Viking tales of the Kraken tell of them attacking ships (at the surface, obviously). Of course, the tales may not be true, but DnD is based on the legends, not the facts.

Therefore, even if it was simply a mundare waterway with a connection to the deep ocean or mearly a large (very large) underground salt water lake which someone stocked with a Kraken (or two), it is not unreasonable for one to surface and attack the PCs. Furthermore, if the temple has a free standing portal to the Elemental Plane of Water, he really can't complain about anything short of a Fire Elemental!

It seems his knowledge of Kraken is gleaned only from a (well written, but not entirely relevant) Jules Vern novel or (more likely) one of several movie adaptions of the same. Jules Vern writes science fiction. DnD is based on legends and high fantasy. Anyone who cannot tell the difference used INT as a dump stat.
Vaelan
05-20-06, 07:35 PM Ask him if he wants to make a Will save to disbelieve the kraken. If he does, tell him that the kraken disappears.

Then ask him to remind you that invisible attackers get +2 to hit.

I'd normally advise just telling him to stop being an ass, but that rarely works on people who so clearly think that they are in every way superior than you.
DarknessEternal
05-21-06, 05:59 AM he could not cope with the "high-fantasy" situation. He is a big fan of the ebberon campaign
This is a paradox. Eberron is the single-most fantastic setting ever written for D&D.

A kraken beneath a temple in Eberron might even be considere banal.
Gideon_Gideonson
05-21-06, 01:19 PM Well, first off, I think the book is 20,000 Leagues under the Sea. Just a minor nitpick.

Anyway, if this guy asked you (as the DM) how the Kraken got there, you don't even have to answer. If my players ask me a meta-game question that will solve a mystery/give them an outcome/etc., I simply answer: "I don't know. Why don't you find out?"

In this case, I would have just told him "Yes." It doesn't answer his question, but if he can't suspend his disbelief enough to allow this, but can accept wizards and magic being everywhere, and can't be bothered to have his character try to solve the problem or figure out the reasons behind it, he's playing the wrong game.

I'd recommend giving him a pack of cards. That way he can play Solitaire, and not have to imagine anything. :D
Poh_Tah_Toe
05-21-06, 01:40 PM If he wants to be immature and annoying, just treat him the way hes acting:

Him: A Kraken? What are we? 3,000 leagues under the sea?!
You: Ofcourse you are. You are instantly crushed by the sheer pressure of the water and die.

Or just tell him he is right about everything, but then act normally to everyone else:

Him: How could a Kraken be here?
You: You are absolutely right, it is implausible if not impossible *To everyone else* Roll initiative
jagraham
05-21-06, 02:34 PM This might be more of a personality thing. Some people are more critical that political.

Here's an off the wall idea: Put a jar on the table. Every time someone whines they put a quarter in the jar. When there is enough money, buy a pizza for everyone. I don't know about DnD, but this works for obscenities by training you to be more aware about what you are saying by following through with the quarter part.
ProfWhy
05-21-06, 03:23 PM Godbolt the character, then hammergun the player in the face... ;)

...either that, or pull him aside and explain to him that this is your game world, he is welcome to participate in it, but that you don't appreciate his attitude and that he needs to pull the 10' pole out from somewhere uncomfortable or else sit this campaign out until he can DM again...

Just a suggestion, thought I'd toss it in there... ;)
ctuttle
05-21-06, 09:13 PM Sometimes players just dont mesh. It's just a play style thing. Seriously just pull him aside. Ask him what is bothering him about the game - if he cannot cope to what you, and the rest of the players are enjoying - this isn't the D&D Game for him and he should look elsewhere. It can be put politely of course.

You should never adjust a game to fit ONE person when the rest of the group is having a great time with the game. Well not drastically anyway.
bhu
05-22-06, 08:02 PM it's a logical inconsistency thing for him. Some players dont expect planar portals or other stuff to be common, especially older ones. Powerful magic is a rare thing. They expect it to not be common and immediately make sense. The fact that they're heavy metagamers will only make it worse. The rolling eyes thing is something ive seen a lot. A player asks his Dm what hte heck is going on and gets told 'it's magic'. Some people take it at face value, others take it as "my DM is the worlds most **** poor writer ever and is using the magic thing as an excuse". My own group runs into that problem but its rarely one player (actually its most of the players but rarely more than one at any one time). You cant really explain it. He'll either accept it and keep playing or not. And explaining things only allows the party to meta the situation. Remind him its a mystery because its SUPPOSED to be a mystery. Something the party figures out as it goes along. Of course if their like my party they wont bother they'll kill the kraken, move on, and never look back (thereby generating more plot threads since there would likely be other les obvious threats they didnt take care of).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Last City 05-19-06, 09:37 PM	Im not trying to start a reality thread so PLEASE spare me the arguments on whats "real" and not in DND... my problem here is ONE player that seem to have an imaginary problem. Among my group of 5, he is a DM & player ... now the problem is when i DM them and set a certain encounter that is out of the ordinary (example finding a kraken hidden below a temple as an encounter) : he would go "What the heck is that DM?" The other players have no respond or basically dont have a problem to those situation... but im surprised that for a DM himself he could not cope with the "high-fantasy" situation. He is a big fan of the ebberon campaign and at times most of us in the group just "dont get it" what his campaign or plot are... in other words: whats cool and believable to him arent exactly in line with the rest of the team. My problem is: How do i make situation bearable to this 1 player??? DND is about having fun but what happends when all other dont have an issue and only 1 guy is complaining?
Chrono Nexus 05-19-06, 09:43 PM	???? Just ignore him. If he doesn't like your plot or your ideas, he doesn't have to stick around. If he can learn to cope with whatever "flaws" you possess, he will.
DarkRhystar 05-19-06, 09:48 PM	My problem is: How do i make situation bearable to this 1 player??? DND is about having fun but what happends when all other dont have an issue and only 1 guy is complaining? I'd say the solution starts with you. You say there's a Kraken under that temple? That certainly is an odd concept. Ask yourself how it got there. Where did it come from? Why does it stay there? Maybe it was once a priestess of the temple. Perhaps the temple came under attack from below and the priestess transformed herself into a beast in order to protect it but shortly after lost control of the form. Maybe those of the temple decided that rather than slay one who risked her own life so selflessly to protect them that they would only restrain her and search for a way to dispel the magic. No longer is it just a Kraken under a temple. Now it is a situation with a history. The solution begins with you. As a DM, it is up to you to craft the world around your players. If you cannot justify the existence of something then you cannot expect your players to do so. Once you have a grasp on it, then and only then can you truly describe it to your players. Make the world rich in history and background, and I think your player will no longer complain. :)
Last City 05-19-06, 09:55 PM	Where did it come from? Why does it stay there? Actually the PCs were given a whole long briefing about this temple and the whole history of why things end up as they did. A dwarven loremaster warned them of many nasties in the temple. To put it in summary; the kraken is the guardian to a magic item to unlock a "water God" statue in another location of the dungeon. PCs actually picked up hints and tips along the way and could expect the kraken there... its just that when the actual encounter happend, the player went shaking his head finding it difficult to believe even after all the explaination and history and story... so yes, i did my home work on "why" its there and "how"... the only thing i cant help is convincing him alone. This was a homebrew campaign by the way...
DarkRhystar 05-19-06, 10:02 PM	Actually the PCs were given a whole long briefing about this temple and the whole history of why things end up as they did. <snip> This was a homebrew campaign by the way... Awesome on both counts. My suggestion is just to go with it. If your player isn't willing to suspend his disbelief then that is truly his loss. I hope this problem sorts itself out for you. :)
TheFallenWriter 05-19-06, 10:04 PM	Nice, well to put it bluntly, the PC is a b****** whiner, and pull him aside and tell him if he doesn't like how you DM, he can take his complaints elsewehre beuase he is disrupting your game and the rest of hte group's fun. Anohter thing you could do is make hte speak in character at the table, and have to give you a note asking you something out of character to get a response. ~The Fallen
ncquinta 05-19-06, 10:20 PM	Just talk to him frankly. And don't allow too much metagamed discussion.
Last City 05-19-06, 10:22 PM	:P maybe thats the problem... the group is VERY heavy meta-gamers... :weep:
TheFallenWriter 05-19-06, 10:28 PM	Ah, meta-gamers, the scourge of the DM. Use evil tactics then, show a monster that looks different, use illusions to trick the people, don't od hte expected, or force htem to roleplay by subtracting some XP everytime they metagame. ~the Fallen
Tristan 05-19-06, 11:00 PM	um...exactly how is he not beliveing it? is it like a "It couldn't happen" type thing? then ask the bard to turn his skin blue while he is sleeping I doupt its the "faires dont exist thing." cus then im sure him being dinner would convince him the Kraken is there. honostly i dont get him.
Last City 05-19-06, 11:09 PM	um...exactly how is he not beliveing it? is it like a "It couldn't happen" type thing? then ask the bard to turn his skin blue while he is sleeping I doupt its the "faires dont exist thing." cus then im sure him being dinner would convince him the Kraken is there. honostly i dont get him. Well this was what he said: " A kraken in a dungeon~~~... 1st we are exploring a dungeon, next we are 3000 leagues underwater..." As far as the 3000 leagues part, i've explained that on the 2nd level under the dungeon, there was a secret giant hall behing the water temple they founded: the hall is enchanted and is actually a sort of portal connected to the plane of water where this kraken resides. He went :rolleyes:
STAT 05-19-06, 11:23 PM	So like if a wizard casts a fireball does he ask, "yeah and where did he pull that giant ball of fire out of hmmmm?" If not, then he's just nitpicking and if he does well then, D&D is not the game for him. In either case I think a liberal application of hammers and/or guns is the appropriate solution. Seriously though, I don't even know how you could approach someone like this. Sounds like he's just being difficult for difficulties sake. I mean, at some point you just have to say it's magic and roll with it.
rijeagle 05-20-06, 12:36 AM	A DM and a player of D&D?? :eek: As a guess, he'll make up an adventure himself and find it good, but all others are stupid and make no sense? Is the sky blue because the deities made it so? Or is it blue because the atmosphere blocks the blue spectrum, thus you can see blue? How does he see it? If he says the latter, he has no imagination and will soon lose interest in D&D. If it continues, tell him, "Just go with it, we're here to play a game, not discuss the realities of an imaginary world of magic, dragons, and fairies." Beyond that, I don't know dude...sorry.
Last City 05-20-06, 12:51 AM	A DM and a player of D&D?? :eek: As a guess, he'll make up an adventure himself and find it good, but all others are stupid and make no sense? Yes! thats the point! The strange irony!!!
TheFallenWriter 05-20-06, 02:06 AM	Nha, my adventures don't suck in teh sense of hte word. It is more like they are some kind of torture becuase I am the most inventive when we play (two of us take turns DMing), so when it comes my turn, I pull every trick I know on them :evillaugh: ~The Fallen
goblin_gronth 05-20-06, 02:11 AM	not that this would go far, but ask for some respect. Not knowing how you are when he DM's but I was in a group that all three of us were DM's and would take turns. It was a common agreement that we respect the others ideas. We each had our own game worlds that we created so there was alot of things that were different from each other. Guess it all depends on how good of friends your are. It worked for us. Not saying that it would for you but it might be something to say next time. shrugs :)
Reversefigure4 05-20-06, 02:52 AM	That's... odd behaviour. If I'm following this right, he finds the situation unrealistic, and complains about it. I've seen this done from an in-character perspective "My knowledge of nature tells me there's no way a Kraken should be here, there's no water around!" sort of thing, which makes good sense, and can add to the game as the PCs discover the reason for the oddness. It sounds like you have the reasoning behind it, and the PCs should be aware that the temple is connected to the Water Plane, and to expect water creatures. How can you convince him it makes sense? Really, you can't. If he chooses to stick his fingers in his ears and say "Nah, this sucks", there's not a lot you can do in game to change that. Personally, I'd just ignore it. "A Kraken in a temple? That's stupid." "Yeah, sure. Roll initiative."
Archmage_Vall 05-20-06, 01:41 PM	If this were happening in a game I was DM'ing, it would go something like this: Him: A Kraken in a temple? :rolleyes: Me: Yes, indeed. rolls Does a 28 hit? Him: Yes sigh :rolleyes: Me: Okay, rolls again the kraken backhands you with one of its tentacles for 26 (beeleeon) damage. Him: writes on character sheet I'm dead. :rolleyes: Me: The Kraken then grabs your corpse with its tentacles and eats it. Him: This game sucks, I'm leaving. :rolleyes: Me: Bye! :rolleyes:
Gold Medal Jedi 05-20-06, 02:02 PM	Ok first question i have to ask is, have you asked him what his problem is? If he says what you have done is impossible, then carefully recount all the things you have done to not only make it possible but have foreshadowed the impending situation so that they weren't caught off guard by it. If he still doesnt get it, ask him what he would have done in your situation. Also remind him the disruption he has created in your game and then ask him why he insists on being this disruption. Honestly though as most have already said you are probably better off with either asking him to leave if doesnt desist in being the disruption you perceive, or just ignore him and continue on with the others who are obviously ok with the situation.
xver 05-20-06, 05:57 PM	Your PC is just being uncooperative and mean spirited. You've put more effort into a logical explanation than the average dungeon crawl has for it's bizzaro ecology. Seriously, if he finds it that crazy, tell he can always attempt to disbelive it. Have him roll a Will save. No matter what he rolls, he'll fail, becuase it is real. Problem solved. (Unless you wish to punish him, in which case, he will disbelive it, but it'll still be there. He he he.) Furthermore, the Three Thousand Leagues Under the Sea reference shows the glaring ignorance of your player. First off, the three thousand leagues is the distance the Nautilus travelled, not the depth. (The ocean isn't that deep, even in the deepest trenches.) Secondly, while the Nautilus did encounter a Kraken while near the ocean floor, and real life Giant Squid are largely deep sea creatures, the original Viking tales of the Kraken tell of them attacking ships (at the surface, obviously). Of course, the tales may not be true, but DnD is based on the legends, not the facts. Therefore, even if it was simply a mundare waterway with a connection to the deep ocean or mearly a large (very large) underground salt water lake which someone stocked with a Kraken (or two), it is not unreasonable for one to surface and attack the PCs. Furthermore, if the temple has a free standing portal to the Elemental Plane of Water, he really can't complain about anything short of a Fire Elemental! It seems his knowledge of Kraken is gleaned only from a (well written, but not entirely relevant) Jules Vern novel or (more likely) one of several movie adaptions of the same. Jules Vern writes science fiction. DnD is based on legends and high fantasy. Anyone who cannot tell the difference used INT as a dump stat.
Vaelan 05-20-06, 07:35 PM	Ask him if he wants to make a Will save to disbelieve the kraken. If he does, tell him that the kraken disappears. Then ask him to remind you that invisible attackers get +2 to hit. I'd normally advise just telling him to stop being an ass, but that rarely works on people who so clearly think that they are in every way superior than you.
DarknessEternal 05-21-06, 05:59 AM	he could not cope with the "high-fantasy" situation. He is a big fan of the ebberon campaign This is a paradox. Eberron is the single-most fantastic setting ever written for D&D. A kraken beneath a temple in Eberron might even be considere banal.
Gideon_Gideonson 05-21-06, 01:19 PM	Well, first off, I think the book is 20,000 Leagues under the Sea. Just a minor nitpick. Anyway, if this guy asked you (as the DM) how the Kraken got there, you don't even have to answer. If my players ask me a meta-game question that will solve a mystery/give them an outcome/etc., I simply answer: "I don't know. Why don't you find out?" In this case, I would have just told him "Yes." It doesn't answer his question, but if he can't suspend his disbelief enough to allow this, but can accept wizards and magic being everywhere, and can't be bothered to have his character try to solve the problem or figure out the reasons behind it, he's playing the wrong game. I'd recommend giving him a pack of cards. That way he can play Solitaire, and not have to imagine anything. :D
Poh_Tah_Toe 05-21-06, 01:40 PM	If he wants to be immature and annoying, just treat him the way hes acting: Him: A Kraken? What are we? 3,000 leagues under the sea?! You: Ofcourse you are. You are instantly crushed by the sheer pressure of the water and die. Or just tell him he is right about everything, but then act normally to everyone else: Him: How could a Kraken be here? You: You are absolutely right, it is implausible if not impossible To everyone else Roll initiative
jagraham 05-21-06, 02:34 PM	This might be more of a personality thing. Some people are more critical that political. Here's an off the wall idea: Put a jar on the table. Every time someone whines they put a quarter in the jar. When there is enough money, buy a pizza for everyone. I don't know about DnD, but this works for obscenities by training you to be more aware about what you are saying by following through with the quarter part.
ProfWhy 05-21-06, 03:23 PM	Godbolt the character, then hammergun the player in the face... ;) ...either that, or pull him aside and explain to him that this is your game world, he is welcome to participate in it, but that you don't appreciate his attitude and that he needs to pull the 10' pole out from somewhere uncomfortable or else sit this campaign out until he can DM again... Just a suggestion, thought I'd toss it in there... ;)
ctuttle 05-21-06, 09:13 PM	Sometimes players just dont mesh. It's just a play style thing. Seriously just pull him aside. Ask him what is bothering him about the game - if he cannot cope to what you, and the rest of the players are enjoying - this isn't the D&D Game for him and he should look elsewhere. It can be put politely of course. You should never adjust a game to fit ONE person when the rest of the group is having a great time with the game. Well not drastically anyway.
bhu 05-22-06, 08:02 PM	it's a logical inconsistency thing for him. Some players dont expect planar portals or other stuff to be common, especially older ones. Powerful magic is a rare thing. They expect it to not be common and immediately make sense. The fact that they're heavy metagamers will only make it worse. The rolling eyes thing is something ive seen a lot. A player asks his Dm what hte heck is going on and gets told 'it's magic'. Some people take it at face value, others take it as "my DM is the worlds most **** poor writer ever and is using the magic thing as an excuse". My own group runs into that problem but its rarely one player (actually its most of the players but rarely more than one at any one time). You cant really explain it. He'll either accept it and keep playing or not. And explaining things only allows the party to meta the situation. Remind him its a mystery because its SUPPOSED to be a mystery. Something the party figures out as it goes along. Of course if their like my party they wont bother they'll kill the kraken, move on, and never look back (thereby generating more plot threads since there would likely be other les obvious threats they didnt take care of).