An unsolved "polymorph" case in the group [Archive] - Wizards Community

An unsolved "polymorph" case in the group [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Panzer_666
04-09-05, 07:51 AM Hello, people!

First of all, I am not the DM of my group, but I do try to lend a helping hand anyway I can (it helps me with consciousness problems about being a kind of a rules lawyer myself, hehe), and we have the following problem in the group: a drow character was supposed to perform a task for Lolth, and he was not succesful - which led the spider queen to turn him into a Drider...

That´s exactly the problem - I could find no material, or any good ideas on how to proceed with the transformation... Do any of you guys have an idea on how this should happen, or where can I find anything to help me?

Thx, people,
Lord Ian Stark
04-09-05, 09:08 AM Well looking at a Drider and knowing it is using a 6th level Drow because it stated it in the description let me give it an unofficial shot. ;)

Drider

Type: You become an Outsider.
Size: Character grows to large size if he wasn't already.
Speed: Character gains a climb speed of 15ft.
Abilities: (It looks like the Drider gets a bonuses to a couple stats. So I will guess) +2 to Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, and I would say +2 to whichever spellcasting ability it has/takes.
Attack: Gain a bite attack that deals 1D4 damage and injects poison on an succesful bite attack.
Poison: Initial & secondary 1D6 STR damage. Fort save to negate. The Save DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA bonus.
Spells: Drider can cast the spells that it did in life or if it didn't cast spells it can now choose to cast Cleric, Sorceror, or Wizard spells.
Spell-Like Abilities: Gains all the spell-like abilities of a Drider. See page 90 in the MM 3.5. Spell DC's are 10 + Spell Level +CHA bonus.
Special Qualities: SR equal to 11 + HD. Darkvision 60 ft. Has a web like substance that can wrap up food.
Skills: A Drider has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. It has a +8 Racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a climb check, even if rushed or threatened.
Level Adjustment +4 (This replaces the Drow's +2)

Let's build off or change this accordingly for accuracy as I am not to well versed in the FR.
deduke
04-09-05, 10:23 AM I have to disagree partiall with Lord Ian Stark

Well looking at a Drider and knowing it is using a 6th level Drow because it stated it in the description let me give it an unofficial shot. ;)

Drider is not some template, it just changes a drow in a drider, essentially making it a totally different creature.

Type: You become an Outsider.

Driders are abberations so i guess you become an abberation

Size: Character grows to large size if he wasn't already.
Speed: Character gains a climb speed of 15ft.
Abilities: (It looks like the Drider gets a bonuses to a couple stats. So I will guess) +2 to Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, and I would say +2 to whichever spellcasting ability it has/takes.

In the beginning of the monster manual it tells you unless noteed otherwise a typical monster has stats all 10's and 11's so it modifiers would be:
str +4, dex +4, con +6, int +4, wis +6, cha +6

Attack: Gain a bite attack that deals 1D4 damage and injects poison on an succesful bite attack.
Poison: Initial & secondary 1D6 STR damage. Fort save to negate. The Save DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA bonus.
Spells: Drider can cast the spells that it did in life or if it didn't cast spells it can now choose to cast Cleric, Sorceror, or Wizard spells.
Spell-Like Abilities: Gains all the spell-like abilities of a Drider. See page 90 in the MM 3.5. Spell DC's are 10 + Spell Level +CHA bonus.
Special Qualities: SR equal to 11 + HD. Darkvision 60 ft. Has a web like substance that can wrap up food.
Skills: A Drider has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. It has a +8 Racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a climb check, even if rushed or threatened.
Level Adjustment +4 (This replaces the Drow's +2)

Let's build off or change this accordingly for accuracy as I am not to well versed in the FR.

I would like to add that besides the +4 LA it also has 6 racial Hit Die. So just a drider is ecl 10.

If i where the DM i would make a 10 lvl savage progression (as explained in savage species), remove all the drow abilities and the +2 LA and let the player take the first 2 levels in the savage progression you created. Now slowly let the player transform in a drider.

My other option would be to make a drider with class levels. Give it a total ecl equal to the current ecl of the pc (assuming he is above ecl 10). So he just would lose 8 class lvls.

As a player and DM i would prefer the first option
snowlynx
04-09-05, 10:30 AM Make the change spontaneous, for start.

I'm sorry, I have to fix it...unless this is really not the drider stright from the monster manual.

levels: take away the 6 levels of whatever spellcasting class it was (sorcerer, wizard, cleric) but retain class spells and spellcasting level. These will now stack with additional levels in the same class, but the special abilities for the class will not. (for example, a 4th level sorcerer drider will have a spellcasting equivalent to 10, but will only have the equivalent of a 4th level familiar in terms of the special abilities it has gained.)

The drider loses the 6 hit dice from class, but you will now need to recalculate skills, base attack bonus, and so on using the new hit dice it has gained: it effectively has 6 levels in abberation.

abilities:
choice one: presuming original character was drow, make the following changes from current abilities: str +4, dex +2, con +8, int +2, wis +6, cha +4

choice two: (more accurate with standard D&D rules, but often more annoying) change the character's physical stats to: str 15, dex 15, con 16. Character's int, wisdom, and charisma stay the same.

alignment: be nice and let the character keep theirs, or require some sort of roll (will save?) not to switch to chaotic evil.

The drider has some other special abilities, but I think Ian got all those.

The character (wht the sudden increase in level adjustment) cannot gain new levels until it once again has the experience to rise above its ECL.

(edit: someone else got the most of changes first :) thank you.)

I say the change should be spontaneous, because drider is not a template at all, and it will be really hard two try to switch it over...I have the savage species drider, but it is silly and presumes the person started off a drider at a very low level. If you must apply it in steps, use option 1 for the ability scores, and slowly apply those (and natural armor, as well as the other abilities that drow don't normally have) when it would have normally gotten a level in some other class, had it not been drow.
Lord Ian Stark
04-10-05, 12:18 PM Drider is not some template, it just changes a drow in a drider, essentially making it a totally different creature.

This is deffinetely a way to do it. However I don't think you would just lose all your feats, skills, and class abilities and other things.

Unless when you become a Drider you are totally unaware of what you once were and lose everything. I can see where you just throw out your character sheet and your done as the drider just runs off to live it's life NPC like.

Did anyone read any books that a Drider is in? Did it know what it was prior to becoming a Drider and failing the test?

Driders are abberations so i guess you become an abberation

Why the heck did I write outsider? :doh:

In the beginning of the monster manual it tells you unless noteed otherwise a typical monster has stats all 10's and 11's so it modifiers would be:

This depends. If we use the poof your a drider that has no clue of what it was a second ago or what it ever did in it's past then yes this is correct and honestly you just use the Drider's abilities as there is nothing to modify.

However if it is a template then you would use the abilities of the existing creature.

I would like to add that besides the +4 LA it also has 6 racial Hit Die.

I disagree here if this is a template. Why? Because you were just turned into a drider. Your existing HD become 6 Monster HD not 6 Character level HD + the 6 Drow HD.

Now that last sentence may explain a lot in itself. Monster HD and class HD are way different so I am thinking it does just become a Drider without any foreknowledge of class abilities or memories prior to becoming a Drider.

The Drider in the Savage Species is just a mess as you have said. How can you play a Drider level one? These creatures don't grow on there own. They are not natural. The MM tells us that they are only created from a 6th level Cleric, Wizard or Sorceror.

Maybe the question is can they breed?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Panzer_666 04-09-05, 07:51 AM	Hello, people! First of all, I am not the DM of my group, but I do try to lend a helping hand anyway I can (it helps me with consciousness problems about being a kind of a rules lawyer myself, hehe), and we have the following problem in the group: a drow character was supposed to perform a task for Lolth, and he was not succesful - which led the spider queen to turn him into a Drider... That´s exactly the problem - I could find no material, or any good ideas on how to proceed with the transformation... Do any of you guys have an idea on how this should happen, or where can I find anything to help me? Thx, people,
Lord Ian Stark 04-09-05, 09:08 AM	Well looking at a Drider and knowing it is using a 6th level Drow because it stated it in the description let me give it an unofficial shot. ;) Drider Type: You become an Outsider. Size: Character grows to large size if he wasn't already. Speed: Character gains a climb speed of 15ft. Abilities: (It looks like the Drider gets a bonuses to a couple stats. So I will guess) +2 to Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, and I would say +2 to whichever spellcasting ability it has/takes. Attack: Gain a bite attack that deals 1D4 damage and injects poison on an succesful bite attack. Poison: Initial & secondary 1D6 STR damage. Fort save to negate. The Save DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA bonus. Spells: Drider can cast the spells that it did in life or if it didn't cast spells it can now choose to cast Cleric, Sorceror, or Wizard spells. Spell-Like Abilities: Gains all the spell-like abilities of a Drider. See page 90 in the MM 3.5. Spell DC's are 10 + Spell Level +CHA bonus. Special Qualities: SR equal to 11 + HD. Darkvision 60 ft. Has a web like substance that can wrap up food. Skills: A Drider has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. It has a +8 Racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a climb check, even if rushed or threatened. Level Adjustment +4 (This replaces the Drow's +2) Let's build off or change this accordingly for accuracy as I am not to well versed in the FR.
deduke 04-09-05, 10:23 AM	I have to disagree partiall with Lord Ian Stark Well looking at a Drider and knowing it is using a 6th level Drow because it stated it in the description let me give it an unofficial shot. ;) Drider is not some template, it just changes a drow in a drider, essentially making it a totally different creature. Type: You become an Outsider. Driders are abberations so i guess you become an abberation Size: Character grows to large size if he wasn't already. Speed: Character gains a climb speed of 15ft. Abilities: (It looks like the Drider gets a bonuses to a couple stats. So I will guess) +2 to Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, and I would say +2 to whichever spellcasting ability it has/takes. In the beginning of the monster manual it tells you unless noteed otherwise a typical monster has stats all 10's and 11's so it modifiers would be: str +4, dex +4, con +6, int +4, wis +6, cha +6 Attack: Gain a bite attack that deals 1D4 damage and injects poison on an succesful bite attack. Poison: Initial & secondary 1D6 STR damage. Fort save to negate. The Save DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA bonus. Spells: Drider can cast the spells that it did in life or if it didn't cast spells it can now choose to cast Cleric, Sorceror, or Wizard spells. Spell-Like Abilities: Gains all the spell-like abilities of a Drider. See page 90 in the MM 3.5. Spell DC's are 10 + Spell Level +CHA bonus. Special Qualities: SR equal to 11 + HD. Darkvision 60 ft. Has a web like substance that can wrap up food. Skills: A Drider has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. It has a +8 Racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a climb check, even if rushed or threatened. Level Adjustment +4 (This replaces the Drow's +2) Let's build off or change this accordingly for accuracy as I am not to well versed in the FR. I would like to add that besides the +4 LA it also has 6 racial Hit Die. So just a drider is ecl 10. If i where the DM i would make a 10 lvl savage progression (as explained in savage species), remove all the drow abilities and the +2 LA and let the player take the first 2 levels in the savage progression you created. Now slowly let the player transform in a drider. My other option would be to make a drider with class levels. Give it a total ecl equal to the current ecl of the pc (assuming he is above ecl 10). So he just would lose 8 class lvls. As a player and DM i would prefer the first option
snowlynx 04-09-05, 10:30 AM	Make the change spontaneous, for start. I'm sorry, I have to fix it...unless this is really not the drider stright from the monster manual. levels: take away the 6 levels of whatever spellcasting class it was (sorcerer, wizard, cleric) but retain class spells and spellcasting level. These will now stack with additional levels in the same class, but the special abilities for the class will not. (for example, a 4th level sorcerer drider will have a spellcasting equivalent to 10, but will only have the equivalent of a 4th level familiar in terms of the special abilities it has gained.) The drider loses the 6 hit dice from class, but you will now need to recalculate skills, base attack bonus, and so on using the new hit dice it has gained: it effectively has 6 levels in abberation. abilities: choice one: presuming original character was drow, make the following changes from current abilities: str +4, dex +2, con +8, int +2, wis +6, cha +4 choice two: (more accurate with standard D&D rules, but often more annoying) change the character's physical stats to: str 15, dex 15, con 16. Character's int, wisdom, and charisma stay the same. alignment: be nice and let the character keep theirs, or require some sort of roll (will save?) not to switch to chaotic evil. The drider has some other special abilities, but I think Ian got all those. The character (wht the sudden increase in level adjustment) cannot gain new levels until it once again has the experience to rise above its ECL. (edit: someone else got the most of changes first :) thank you.) I say the change should be spontaneous, because drider is not a template at all, and it will be really hard two try to switch it over...I have the savage species drider, but it is silly and presumes the person started off a drider at a very low level. If you must apply it in steps, use option 1 for the ability scores, and slowly apply those (and natural armor, as well as the other abilities that drow don't normally have) when it would have normally gotten a level in some other class, had it not been drow.
Lord Ian Stark 04-10-05, 12:18 PM	Drider is not some template, it just changes a drow in a drider, essentially making it a totally different creature. This is deffinetely a way to do it. However I don't think you would just lose all your feats, skills, and class abilities and other things. Unless when you become a Drider you are totally unaware of what you once were and lose everything. I can see where you just throw out your character sheet and your done as the drider just runs off to live it's life NPC like. Did anyone read any books that a Drider is in? Did it know what it was prior to becoming a Drider and failing the test? Driders are abberations so i guess you become an abberation Why the heck did I write outsider? :doh: In the beginning of the monster manual it tells you unless noteed otherwise a typical monster has stats all 10's and 11's so it modifiers would be: This depends. If we use the poof your a drider that has no clue of what it was a second ago or what it ever did in it's past then yes this is correct and honestly you just use the Drider's abilities as there is nothing to modify. However if it is a template then you would use the abilities of the existing creature. I would like to add that besides the +4 LA it also has 6 racial Hit Die. I disagree here if this is a template. Why? Because you were just turned into a drider. Your existing HD become 6 Monster HD not 6 Character level HD + the 6 Drow HD. Now that last sentence may explain a lot in itself. Monster HD and class HD are way different so I am thinking it does just become a Drider without any foreknowledge of class abilities or memories prior to becoming a Drider. The Drider in the Savage Species is just a mess as you have said. How can you play a Drider level one? These creatures don't grow on there own. They are not natural. The MM tells us that they are only created from a 6th level Cleric, Wizard or Sorceror. Maybe the question is can they breed?