Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zousha_Omenohu 05-23-07, 08:21 PM	This could be the beginning of a long post, but I guess this place is the only place I can really get it all off my chest and get meaningful advice. I've been an avid fan of D&D for about 4 to 5 years now, ever since one of my brother's friends introduced us to the game. I've had some good times, though most of the sessions I participated in weren't all that serious. However ever since my brother got a few of his other friends introduced to the game, he's wanted to start a group, with me as the DM, since I own the majority of our books (about 20+), and I'm better at comming up with campaign stuff (though I suspect that the primary reason is because he just wants to play himself, instead of running the whole thing, and I can't fault him for that). I've made several attempts to accomodate his requests, but it seems like every session I'm rolling up everyone's character sheets for a few hours prior to the actual game, and then it turns out to be nothing more than storming a cave full of bandits or something. The glorious majestic campaign world I lovingly designed fell flat on its face because the very first session we played, for lack of a better term, sucked. Truth be told, I've never been really smart about the mechanics of the game, despite the fact that I have a better grasp on the rules than anyone else in the group. I've always been good at developing campaign worlds, and even better with their histories (at least on a global level). My main problem is that when I run a session it falls flat on it's face when combat starts. While I can keep track of initiative relatively well, I never know what exactly to throw at the PCs to challenge them, and I have a bad habit of pulling my punches. My biggest bad habit is my lack of organization. I have an interesting campaign setting, but that's it. I don't have enounters or a plot for an adventure or anything like that, and then I pay for it by pulling monsters out of thin air for the PCs to fight, and I've relayed these concerns to my brother, but he insists that I do it anyway, as anything I could come up with is better than what he could do (I find that very hard to believe). Sorry for the long, boring, self-depricating monologue but I'm at my wit's end! While I have some experience playing the game as a player, I am a terrible DM, and I admit it! My brother wants me to work on a campaign setting that I can run when I come home from college every so often, and I have a good deal of time this summer to work on it. I was wondering if any of you veterans out there had any advice for a hopeless case like myself.
darkneolink 05-23-07, 08:26 PM	First don't hold your punches (or not too much) they will be gratefull of the challenge If you have a hard time with battle encounters... why don't you try a pre-written adventure? go with some of them for a while untill you get the hang on combat tactics (some of them gives combat tactics for the NPC's) throw something that challenges their abilities but doesn't negate them
Zousha_Omenohu 05-23-07, 08:31 PM	I've asked my brother that repeatedly! When I do, he stubbornly insists that I make my own cool campaign.:mad:
PwnageLlama 05-23-07, 08:37 PM	Find pre-written adventures and take a couple encouters, traps, loot, bosses, and put them in your own dungeon. Don't copy them word for word, switch things around and tweak them. This will give a good way to start.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-23-07, 08:38 PM	I've asked my brother that repeatedly! When I do, he stubbornly insists that I make my own cool campaign.:mad: Tell him that published, succesful adventures are a lot cooler than anything you could come up with?(No offense man). Also, don't be a pushover.
Dragonsblood 05-23-07, 08:49 PM	I've asked my brother that repeatedly! When I do, he stubbornly insists that I make my own cool campaign.:mad: Don't ask him?
uglykitten 05-23-07, 09:23 PM	You're going through exactly what I went through about a month ago. Here's what I did--I went and asked all my players for their general stats--AC, HP, their attacks, their spot and listen checks--and I started looking for monsters that would allow individuals as well as the group to shine. I also figured out that those CRs only help you if you know how difficult a challenge it really is for each individual monster. Also, figure out based on how many players you have at a particular level--not how high most of them would have to be to beat just one. 3 third level characters could beat a level 8 or 9 monster if it was by itself. Make sure that they can hit it on a 12, though--that way it's a little more than half of a d20. Make sure it, in a single attack round, won't be able to kill someone, though. About 1/3 of a characters HP should go in one round if one monster focuses entirely on that person. That way if the monster rolls a natural 20, you could kill a person, but that's okay--killing off characters is fun. =3 I've discovered firsthand. So are natural 1s.
thecartoon 05-23-07, 09:38 PM	I don't presume to have the best of all possible solutions for you. I'm just going to describe how I overcome the same sort of problem and hope that you'll gain something from it. I always start slow with my campaign worlds (they are usually massive). I'll make up a huge map perhaps the size of Europe. Then I make a smaller map, a map of where the players will start out that is perhaps the size of a mid-sized island. From there I stat out the cities and other settlements. I come up with an idea of what that city is like from the inside in terms of political and social organization (is it a port town? who governs it? is there a sizeable criminal element? might vampires live there? etc). I also take a look at the geography of the map and think about environments. If I have a large swamp, I think about what might naturally live in the swamp (or choose to live in the swamp). Things start to fall in place. My campaigns always start out as a sequence of largely unconnected adventures that rely of conditions separate from an overarching storyline (ie geography, politics, etc). The PCs might be fighting undead in one encounter and a group of human bandits in the next. At this point, I have a few encounters in mind, one or two, planned and a few 'random' encounters in mind, as well. At this point, I begin to experiment. I asked myself what worked well as an encounter? What encounter ended up being challenging and fun for the PCs? I begin to think of things based on that. If the bandits ended up being an awesome encounter, I can guarantee they'll come back. Maybe they seek revenge. Then maybe one of their assassins drops something truly sinister and they need to find out what it is from an NPC in another city. Maybe on the way they get ambushed by a 'random' encounter monster. Once they make it to the NPC, maybe he describes a lost tomb that the dropped item was from that the bandits must be digging up, and the PCs feel they should investigate... and so on. From a really good encounter with some bandits I may have just hypothetically built the foundation for what could be a really fun and rewarding quest. My method works for me, and I bet it could work for you (or parts of it that you adopt, at least, could work for you). My method requires planning and creativity. From what I understand, you've got the creativity down pat. If you're building campaign worlds that you are proud of, you've done 75% of the work you need to. The rest is just thinking up adventure ideas, scripting one or two of them out, seeing what works and what doesn't, and generally going with the flow. I realize this poses a challenge for you if you plan on getting most of your campaign thought-up this summer before play even begins, because you're not going to get feedback from your party until the fall. You can still adopt the starting principles of my method, though. Think of what adventures are likely given the setting, script them out, and see where they go. You could have 3-4 different adventures that each lead to other adventures and might also interconnect. Use the extra time you have to anticipate where things might go (and where you would like them to go). Hopefully I've given you some ideas on how to proceed. Good luck with your game.
Zousha_Omenohu 05-23-07, 09:53 PM	Another frustrating problem that I have is less easy to deal with, and that's my relatively consistent bad luck when the dice are rolled. If that carries over to DMing, there may be a problem with too many character deaths. Great advice so far! Keep it up!
Nom 05-23-07, 10:17 PM	Ideas: (1) As has already been said, use pre-written adventures, then dress them up. The adventure handles the mechanics; you make it come alive. If it's a downloadable adventure, I'd strongly urge you to print it out and then attack it with highlighter, post-it notes and/or pen long before you get anywhere near the gaming table. This achieves two goals. Firstly, it allows you to internalise the story and characters, so that you don't just read and play them woodenly. Secondly, it means you're familiar with the mechanics, so that there's no "Uh, troll. Troll. What does a troll do again? (flip flip flip)" (2) Learn the CR/EL system. It has its faults, but it's pretty good. Assuming four standard strength PCs (25 points or thereabouts; the default rolling method of PC generation is "thereabouts" as long as you don't allow players to reroll until they get something they like) with standard equipment and no wacky abilities, it generally works out pretty well. Remember an encounter with a creature whose CR = party level is one of four encounters per day. (3) Prepare! This goes for you and your players. Stories and encounters almost always run better if you've planned them out beforehand. Similarly, character generation works better if you either have a "character generation" session or you do it via e-mail well before the first session.
DrWorm 05-23-07, 11:12 PM	One inbetween idea is to get things like Dungeon magazine. They have smally adventures that you cna drop in to any world. I have used them before and with a little tweaking can be great fun. Run a few of these then your world may develop more originality and sustainability over time. There arer also probably web sites that have such things as well.
PwnageLlama 05-23-07, 11:13 PM	Another frustrating problem that I have is less easy to deal with, and that's my relatively consistent bad luck when the dice are rolled. If that carries over to DMing, there may be a problem with too many character deaths. Great advice so far! Keep it up! I don't know if you expect advice, but if one fudged dice roll makes a PC live, or the situation more memorable, do it. Dont let the PC's rely on it, and neither should you.
darkneolink 05-23-07, 11:23 PM	I don't know if you expect advice, but if one fudged dice roll makes a PC live, or the situation more memorable, do it. Dont let the PC's rely on it, and neither should you. yeah... try to make all your rolls behind the screen so they don't know the result and you can "save" them
Bluehero 05-24-07, 12:55 AM	If your looking for some published adventures to grab encounters out of theres a bunch for free on this very site in the downloads section.
the_Luggage 05-24-07, 09:49 AM	Here's a little bit of advice and I hope it helps. Also, don't be down on yourself about GMing okay? It takes a lot to ask for help, and asking means you're not bad at it, you understand a problem. Right, remember that D'n'D is a co-operation between players and the GM. So talk to your players! Find out what they want, what characters they like to play, what fantasy they enjoy. By knowing what they want you can cater to them, and satisfy yourself! If you have one player that really wants to be Robin Hood, introduce and obnoxious noble for him to rail against. If you got a character who thinks Ser Lannister is the cats pajamas, suggest the Knight class to him and get him a fun single combat encounter. Encourage the players to immerse themselves in your world, and take a few suggestions maybe. Hope this helps. The idea about prewritten adventures is a good one. And another good idea (although you'll probably be against it) is pre written settings like Eberron or Forgotten Realms. It allows you to focus on fun encounters entirely.
aikimiller 05-24-07, 11:09 AM	One thing I might suggest would be to try switching from a world-based approach, to a story-arc based approach. It sounds like you're really good at the "where" things are happening, but the "why" and "what", which are the factors the players are going to be concerned with, are lacking. Create a BBEG, a high level lich, or a dragon, a corupt polotician, a pit fiend, give him a purpose, goals, desires, srengths, and weaknesses. Then give him minions, lackeys that the party will be in contact with, have to fight ect. Now, what would bring him/her/it into conflict with the party? Does he want to take over the plane by reassembling a powerful artifact? Does he seek revenge for something the PC's have done to him? Do the PCs have something he wants, or is there something he cannot do, that he needs to trick the PCs into doing? Think long term here, the scariest enemies are those with patience. Now, create a reason why he cannot simply kill them right off the bat- is he not powerful enough to expose himself to the world at large? Does he need the PCs alive for some reason? Is he in a political position where he cannot reveal his true colors? Is he trying to fool the PCs into thinking he's one of the good guys? This last one can be expecially interesting, if you can pull it off, lots of interesting foreshadowing, and betrayl possabilities. This will give you a basic platform to work from, and can let you work up to the epic feeling that you want. Flesh out his plans, what is he doing while the PCs are adventuring? One thing to be careful of is anytime you want to bring him into direct contact with the party, make sure he has several backup plans, PCs always have a suprise for you, expect them to do something crazy. Flesh out his minions, make several of them that the party may possibly come into contact with multiple times, what do they want? Why are they working for him? Create a loose story arc for the long term, and drop hints every now and again of what the party is building up to. Throw in some plot twists, things they won't see coming. Have a general idea of how you want to tie everything into a neat package in the end. hope this helps
Meddros 05-24-07, 11:46 AM	OK the dice rolls, is something I am terrible at myself. I will either roll one number less then what is needed or really roll low. The DMs screen is where you can keep that to yourself. You are not cheating, you are not making it any less fun for them, you are making it the mystery they need to make the game more entertaining. I stink at rolls so if I throw a whole bunch or really bad ones I will still on occasion (not always) say one still hit. That way they don't get all high and mighty thinking they can walk through anything. You want them to win but you want them to be challenged. I however have a friend who can look you dead in the face without blinking and roll any 20 sided dice on the table and say 20. And wouldn't you know that dice will roll a twenty. I hate him. :) As for adventures, if you are expected to come up with your own ideas then by all means use other sources for ideas. Steal from anywhere you can and then change it to your own. Think of MMOs, or go buy a few pre made adventures as they are all pointing out. These are two very rich sources for adventure ideas. Read books, watch movies, or even just plain old cartoons. Somewhere you will find stuff. And lastly don't pull your punches. Unless you really don't want to kill them off in the end. Just take them down to dying and then pull back. If a roll of damage would normally kill a character then make it so they get enough damage to fall unconscious. These are just a few other ideas for you.
Midrealm_DM 05-24-07, 12:38 PM	I've been an avid fan of D&D for about 4 to 5 years now...ever since my brother got a few of his other friends introduced to the game, he's wanted to start a group, with me as the DM...I've made several attempts to accomodate his requests, but it seems like every session I'm rolling up everyone's character sheets for a few hours prior to the actual game, and then it turns out to be nothing more than storming a cave full of bandits or something. The glorious majestic campaign world I lovingly designed fell flat on its face because the very first session we played, for lack of a better term, sucked. ...I've always been good at developing campaign worlds, and even better with their histories (at least on a global level). My main problem is that when I run a session it falls flat on it's face when combat starts. While I can keep track of initiative relatively well, I never know what exactly to throw at the PCs to challenge them, and I have a bad habit of pulling my punches. My biggest bad habit is my lack of organization. I have an interesting campaign setting, but that's it. I don't have enounters or a plot for an adventure or anything like that, and then I pay for it by pulling monsters out of thin air for the PCs to fight, and I've relayed these concerns to my brother, but he insists that I do it anyway, as anything I could come up with is better than what he could do (I find that very hard to believe). ...I am a terrible DM, and I admit it!...I was wondering if any of you veterans out there had any advice for a hopeless case like myself. Well it sounds like you are a good, albeit inexperienced DM. From what you say, you have a good campaign setting, thats a place to start for your adventures. The World Builder's Guidebook http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1484 can help your campaign setting, but if you already have that decently laid out you probably wont need it. First thing to find out is what motivates the characters in the campaign.. I always start my players out at 1st level, and give an xp bonus (300-500xp) for a detailed (5 paragraphs or more) history of their characters. I also prefer that they write these in first person format, as if told by their characters. It can even be fun to have each player read them aloud as they meet in the first adventure. Find out if your characters want glory, power, honor. Do the players want intricate stories with detailed plots, do they want riddles, or do they just want to inflict damage on their enemies. I break my campaign into story-arcs Each story-arc is a complete story with a beginning middle and end, which may take several adventures to complete (three to nine). Sometimes the players may be working on multiple story-arcs at the same time. And of course what the players do can change the progress or outcome of the story. If different players have different goals try to rotate through them, having a story-arc that centers around one character's goals and then the next around another character. My biggest bad habit is my lack of organization. I have an interesting campaign setting, but that's it. Well look at your campaign setting, are there areas at war with one another, is their political strife? Come up with several things happening in your world then figure out how to get the players involved, they could be hired to deliver a package, escort a nobleman, etc. Give the player's a choice in what they do, players tend to respond better if they feel they have options. Also make a calendar for your campaign, or just use an old calendar, keep track of major events and futre events that the players may trigger (if they insult a nobleman, they might start a war; if they attack a tribe of gnolls, the gnoll tribes may retaliate within a week) As far as organizing : Get a a pair of three ring binders or similar one for your campaign setting information the other for your current adventure/story arc. One for your campaign world: In it place maps, city maps and information, taveren maps, ruling nobles etc. Any time you add something to your camapign setting from history to culture or geography it goes in here. You will have to reorganize it from time to time, but it helps to develop a standard format for you information, such as a header page for each city descirbing ruling body, trade, unique laws, etc. The second binder is for your current campaign. Seperate it into three sections Maps, Room/Encounter Descriptions, Creatures (You can photocopy pages from the Monster Manuals to place in the binder, or simply write an abbreviated version as a reminder for yourself) You can go to an office supply store for the little post-it tabs to mark certain pages in your binders to indicate key events locations or creatures. When making adventures It helps to Make a flow chart For example: 1> Party Discovers town's water is being poisoned -Party reports this to authorities (step 10) -Party stakes out the well at night (step 2) -Party attempts to gather info on who is doing it (step 20) 2> Check for random encounter during the night then Robed Figure approaches well just before dawn and pours something into the well -Party attacks figure (Step 5) -Party watches and follows figure (Step 3) 3> Check to see if figure notices they are being followed. - Figure will flee if notices party, if cornered or caught (Step 5) - Part remains hidden from figure, tracks them back to... You can fill in details on the fly if you need to, but this way you aready have a story laid out, from begining to middle to end. With most viable choices the party can make spelled out as to how they affect the story. Note: A party will eventually do something unexpected, so be prepared to adlib something. This is another reason it helps to know the whole plot of the current adventure story-arc. If you do use a pre generated adventure make sure you read it all the way through before begining Lastly let the gaming results provide hooks for you as well; the outcome of an off-the-cuff adventure can provide a long term story if you spin it right. For Example: My second adventure (the first one they all met while defending a mining town from goblins) the players found a posting of several available jobs Deliver a package to a nobleman in a distant city Escort an orphaned child to her grandparent (no pay on this one) Guard a caravan against maraunding giants etc.. They wisely opted against the giant mission (it would be too difficult for them, I put this one in to let them know they can choose stuff that is too easy or too hard) They chose to devliver the package and escort the girl (after discovering the girl's granparent lived beyond the nobleman's city) At this point I really didn't have anything further planned. So they recieved the package, and a warning that 'Caleb Cole is coming' A few gather info checks revealed he was an evil ranger and known dragon hunter. The party fled that night with the package, avoiding the roads. They encountered Caleb and his men, fought briefly and successfully ran and escaped when Caleb starting putting down some heavy magic (well heavy for 1st level players). I later decided Caleb did not want to harm the party but was trying to prevent the package from being delivered because it was an orb of dragon control. This was decided after the adventure was over. So then I asked myself why would a nobleman want an orb of dragon control, and why would Caleb want to stop it. Well, I rewrote Caleb to make him a polymorphed Dragon, this would explain why he wouldn't want anyone to get the orb, and his reputation as a dragon hunter - I've used Caleb in several adventures since then, the party still doesn't know his true nature. Ok - so why did the nobleman want the orb, well I already knew his house was attempting to overthrow the crown, so I decided he was in league with some dark priests who were attempting to raise a powerful dragon from the dead and were planning to use the orb to control it. I looked at my campaign world history, modified it to include a powerful dragon involved in a war a few centuries ago. After that, I decided it would take ~8 months for the evil forces to locate the grave of the dragon and raise it. I marked on my campaign calendar a few key points, such as "The Evil forces raid the grate library, steal books on dragons and ancient battles"; "Evil forces gather in the mountains"; "Dragon raised from dead" These events would now happen if the party did not interfere. As play progresses the party learned more of these events, and several other plot lines were established in a similar style. The party eventually latched onto this one, and I had several adventures - the party had to learn the dragons resting place, travel there, and eventually defeat the enemy forces. This plot line kept the campaign going for 8 levels, though there were minor offshoot plots (An encounter with some lizard men who had a prohecy of a great dragon rising and destroying the world, an encounter saving a city from some rogue constructs, etc ) Currently they have 'triggered' 3 more story lines and are persuing one of them. It is up to you to decide if an unfollowed story will resolve unhindered or if another group of heroes steps in to save the day. By having multiple stories roughed out on a calendar, the players can choose to affect one, and you can let the others progress. In my opinion this gives the campaign more realism, in that things occur even if the characters dont get involved. Another option for a quick adventure (One that I have used twice) is a random dungeon generator. (this one is available for windows) http://www.aarg.net/~minam/downloads/dungeon_win.zip It isn't that great at creatures (some choices don't make sense such as a giant in a 10x10 room) but you can set the theme yourself (such as temple of a snake cult) and then choose appropriate themed creatures. But having a pregened random map can help sometimes. This isn't the best route but can help if you are feeling tired or overwhelmed as you don't have to create the map, just the creatures in it. I've probably rambled on way too long. One last thing, remember what anyone tells you (myslef included) may not always work, it is what we have found to work for us. So try out different things and find what works for you and your players. Hope that helps
Zousha_Omenohu 05-24-07, 06:25 PM	Well, I'm working on the basic concept of my campaign as well. I posted at the Campaign Workshop. It's called Heroes Reborn. Basically the characters were heroes in the campaign world in the distant past, and they were summoned to the present using a ritual. This ritual was botched and they ended up arriving in youthful, level-1 versions of themselves. I know the first story arc of the campaign is going to be about them discovering why and how they were summoned, who summoned them, and where and when they are. I guess I've got some shopping to do. I think I'll look into that Campaign Builder's workbook, if only so everything is there and handy when I need it. I'm also going to try and buy a DM screen (should have bought one of the damn things years ago!). I've also purchased a couple non-D&D books with some general advice (Dungeons and Dragons for Dummies and Dungeon Master for Dummies, I know, I'm that bad).
Kaldric 05-24-07, 06:36 PM	Can't tell you forcefully enough to ignore your brother. Creating an entire campaign world from scratch is an advanced DM chore. If you're just starting, start simple! Learn what the gas pedal and the brakes are before you start trying to design a car.
DarkNick 05-24-07, 06:44 PM	I think you know what to do. "I have an interesting campaign setting, but that's it. I don't have enounters or a plot for an adventure or anything like that" So fix it! Get organised, focus on the micro rather than the macro. Basically you need to prepare. Create a plot, keep it simple. Sounds like you don't want to put in the hard work and then come moaning about it to these boards. Dming is not easy. You only get out of it what you put in. :ton: You might want to consider whether you want to be the DM depite what your brother says. If you want it then more than likely you will be motivated.
Nathreet 05-24-07, 06:46 PM	Average Damage Per Round = DPR = (AB + 21 - AC) * (damage) / 20 (damage) = average damage per hit. AC = monster's AC. Take an average for multiple monsters, if necessary. This is only an estimate anyway. Figure out the PC's DPR. Assume casters use 1/4 of their spells, others use 1/4 of special abilities, etc. For "insta-kills", like sleep, multiply total HP of targets by the chance that they will fail their save: (DC - save modifier) / 20. That's the "DPR" for sleep. For multiple spells, just take the average. Add up the DPR for all the PCs. Do the same for the monsters. Estimate how many rounds it will take for the PCs to kill them, based on the PC's DPR and the monsters' total HP. The monsters should have enough DPR to eliminate 1/4 of the party's HP during the same number of rounds. There, now you have an encounter that consumes 1/4 of the party's resources. Be sure to vary it up a bit. Make some encounters easier, some harder. Or make some that require special tactics to defeat (via terrain, via the monsters themselves, or due to the monsters' special tactics). Or some that require certain skills to defeat: like rogue trapfinding, special spells, ranger tracking, scouting while undetected, etc. Don't be afraid to kill or capture a player every once in a while. We like the risk. Also try some self esteem, assertiveness, etc. Nobody knows everything. Doesn't mean you can't make some good decisions. Make the decisions. Listen to opposition, but don't back down once you've made your decision. Learn from what happens. It won't be perfect, but it will be good, even if it does have a few problems. Just remember that doing it was better than inaction, and make it even better in the future. All this is much easier for me to say than for you to do, btw. Heck, I only wish I could always tackle things like that. Take what I say with a grain of salt, and make your own decision in the end.
doink1212 05-24-07, 07:00 PM	Here are a couple of suggestions unfortunately you didnt go into detail about this stuff. 1) Visual aids will help you in combat as well as your teamates. I dont know if you are using them but it sounds like you are playing too much into character sheets. Our group loves putting minatures on a white board. Draw the caves everyone is happy. Most people like the graph paper setup. You get the point. Use visual aids that help not hinder. 2) Get out of the book. As the DM you are essentially the unequivocal god of gods. You do not need a book or a character sheet to tell you pretty basic stuff. Most of our campaigns BBEGs fit on 3x5 index cards. BAB, stats, attacks, equipment, special abilities, iniative, AC, tactics, and maybe some dialogue and hooks, etcs. Thats is all you really need and most of it common sense when you get down to it. A fighter has full BAB, heavy armor, etc. 3) If you can practice. I recently started to coDM with another friend of mine, we both didnt really have time to run individual campaigns, but together we can playtest scenarios and build plot and world together. Two minds are better than one, see if you can find an extra person to help you playtest. Practice does make perfect. 4) Always re-read the Combat section of the players handbook, take notes if need be. Grapple rules and mounted combat are seemingly the toughest sections. But most the time common sense rules all. If it helps run a low magic campaign, or if you better at magic run a high magic campaign. (magic is easier on a white board in my opinion. drawing charred bodies is fun.) Anything else??
Zousha_Omenohu 05-24-07, 07:21 PM	While I am a bit put off by your comment, Mr. DarkNick, I see your point clearly. Truth be told, I've constantly objected to my brother's insistance that I DM and I've always wound up giving in (and I'm older than he is!). I always like designing the campaign world, but I always have difficulty motivating myself to try and implement it. Also, I'm fairly new here, having only joined the forums this year, and I've contributed to it for a few months. I think I've probably waited too long to get help from those more experienced than me (I managed to join a game during the school year, but the DM had about as much experience running a campaign as I did and had two DMPCs, something I learned to avoid years ago). I've also put a small fortune into buying the corebooks and plenty of the splatbooks. I need to do something with them other than casually page through them when I'm bored! I've never really liked miniatures. I've spent enough money in books already! My preparation skills are definately lacking (to think I got through my first year of college this way!). I've had some experience playing a wizard, so I now know the basics of spellcasting, but combat has always been a tricky point for me. I know visual aids help, but I'm not about to sink even more money buying random plastic figurines that more likely than not won't contain what I need for a specific encounter. Is there any way to have visual aids that would be more cost-effective?
Loestalx 05-24-07, 07:37 PM	While I am a bit put off by your comment, Mr. DarkNick, I see your point clearly. Truth be told, I've constantly objected to my brother's insistance that I DM and I've always wound up giving in (and I'm older than he is!). I always like designing the campaign world, but I always have difficulty motivating myself to try and implement it. Also, I'm fairly new here, having only joined the forums this year, and I've contributed to it for a few months. I think I've probably waited too long to get help from those more experienced than me (I managed to join a game during the school year, but the DM had about as much experience running a campaign as I did and had two DMPCs, something I learned to avoid years ago). I've also put a small fortune into buying the corebooks and plenty of the splatbooks. I need to do something with them other than casually page through them when I'm bored! I've never really liked miniatures. I've spent enough money in books already! My preparation skills are definately lacking (to think I got through my first year of college this way!). I've had some experience playing a wizard, so I now know the basics of spellcasting, but combat has always been a tricky point for me. I know visual aids help, but I'm not about to sink even more money buying random plastic figurines that more likely than not won't contain what I need for a specific encounter. Is there any way to have visual aids that would be more cost-effective? Um...are you the ONLY one buying books for everyone to read? If so, that's bunk. And so is not being able to used modules. YOUR the DM, you get to be the boss here. I'm sure you think your brother will take his friends and go someplace else, but judging from what you have said...where are they gonna go? Your the most experienced one and I'm guessing if any of them try to DM they will be running back to you. My advice, seriously....go buy a mod or two. Use it, ignore what your brother says...he has no say, it's your game. He may give you some grief...but he will play in it as will the others. You can use your world, just change what needs to be changed in the adventure to fit. Not only will this take some stress off of you, but you will learn. You will learn how to properlly gauge PCs. Learn how much xp to give out, learn to know how much money or encounters are appropriate and eventually develop your own DMing style. Like somebody before me said, it's not easy...especailly a newer DM who has never had the chance to properly develop his skills.
UltimateReality 05-24-07, 08:29 PM	I've constantly objected to my brother's insistance that I DM and I've always wound up giving in (and I'm older than he is!). I always like designing the campaign world, but I always have difficulty motivating myself to try and implement it.You sound a lot like me, only replace brother with husband. My best advice for you is: don't let him push you around! And don't talk about the game/adventure with him before the session -- maybe afterwards, to see if he has ideas or suggestions or comments, but NEVER before. I am also a worldbuilder. I have spent months building worlds that have yet to see play. The first thing you have to do is figure out if you really want to DM. In this vein, I suggest you read this post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12384253&postcount=3) by another board member. If you decide you do want to DM, you have to...for lack of a better phrase...gain the authority of the group. This means telling your bro to stuff it when you think he's out of line. My preparation skills are definately lackingPrep is not as needed as we think it is. Preface your campaign with a note or quick speech to the group: "I'm new at this rules thing, I will make on-the-spot judgements and review them at a break. Don't be ruleslawyering munchkins or I will kick your butt. :P" The closer the group is to core & 28 point buy, the easier it will be to pull stock monsters and NPCs (from the DMG tables) and have it be a decent challenge. The only other thing I would suggest is that you put those splat books to use and build characters as the whim strikes you. Just file them away for later use. combat has always been a tricky point for me.Bull rush, trip, AoOs, overrun...yeah, they're a pain in the butt. Learn the layout of the Combat chapter of the PHB. Put sticky notes on the pages with relevent tables. Also, if you foresee a particular rule coming up next session...read up on it first. (It may seem obvious, but even I have to double-check myself.) I also spend about 15-20 minutes immediately before the session reading over what I have planned, noting down monster/NPC tactics, and plot points. I know visual aids help, but I'm not about to sink even more money buying random plastic figurines that more likely than not won't contain what I need for a specific encounter. Is there any way to have visual aids that would be more cost-effective?You know those aquarium stones you get at the pet store? I use a lot of those. And small candies. And petty change. We once used a cigarette pack as a dragon. Alternately, see if any of your players are fig collectors -- we have a couple in my group and never want for figs. Also remember: just because the monster is a goblin doesn't mean the fig has to be a goblin.
Zousha_Omenohu 05-24-07, 08:30 PM	The only books my brother technically "owns" are the Player's Handbook, which he bought, and the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, which he got for his birthday one year. Both are currently in my possession due to the fact that I'm the only one who really knows how to use them. I own the rest. If it helps any, here's what I've got, apart from the two I mentioned: Dungeon Master's Guide Monster Manual 1 Complete Adventurer Complete Warrior Complete Scoundrel Complete Mage Complete Arcane Complete Divine Heroes of Horror Heroes of Battle Hordes of the Abyss Tyrants of the Nine Hells Book of Exalted Deeds Hero Builder's Guidebook Masters of the Wild Sword and Fist Tome and Blood Deities and Demigods Player's Handbook II Tome of Magic I'll probably add more to this list later, when I get a chance to double-check what I've got. With this many books, I'm not going to be buying miniatures any time soon. Plus my parents probably wouldn't want me to spend more money on the game than I already have. Personally, I feel that I'm the only one who truly takes the game seriously. My brother is a casual gamer at heart, as he has a dozen other things that he likes to do, namely fencing and playing the bagpipes. My sister has expressed interest as well, but she's never really read the Player's Handbook, and is basically a fifth wheel when the game begins. Another issue is the fact that whenever we play, I have to draw up new character sheets for EVERY FLIPPIN' PARTY MEMBER! Again, this is because I take the game more seriously than everyone else, and more importantly, I seem to be the only one who can make sense of what's written on a character sheet. I remember one time when we were playing and had next to no knowledge of the rules. The way we were playing basically was that any hit that threatened was a critical. Eventually, I learned the correct way this was done. When I brought this up during the game, my brother and I argued about it for a good five minutes until I finally got him to see sense. I don't want to have to spend my sessions explaining the rules to the party members. My brother has learned enough of the rules to get by, so there aren't any more issues like the one I described, but it gets difficult with other people, who are invited to join and have character sheets (filled out by me, naturally) before the game and have no idea how the game works. I'm thinking about just demanding that if you want to play, you have to read the Player's Handbook cover-to-cover, so you're not going into the game blind. This goes for me too, especially the Combat chapter.
Loestalx 05-24-07, 09:00 PM	The only books my brother technically "owns" are the Player's Handbook, which he bought, and the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, which he got for his birthday one year. Both are currently in my possession due to the fact that I'm the only one who really knows how to use them. I own the rest. If it helps any, here's what I've got, apart from the two I mentioned: Dungeon Master's Guide Monster Manual 1 Complete Adventurer Complete Warrior Complete Scoundrel Complete Mage Complete Arcane Complete Divine Heroes of Horror Heroes of Battle Hordes of the Abyss Tyrants of the Nine Hells Book of Exalted Deeds Hero Builder's Guidebook Masters of the Wild Sword and Fist Tome and Blood Deities and Demigods Player's Handbook II Tome of Magic I'll probably add more to this list later, when I get a chance to double-check what I've got. With this many books, I'm not going to be buying miniatures any time soon. Plus my parents probably wouldn't want me to spend more money on the game than I already have. Personally, I feel that I'm the only one who truly takes the game seriously. My brother is a casual gamer at heart, as he has a dozen other things that he likes to do, namely fencing and playing the bagpipes. My sister has expressed interest as well, but she's never really read the Player's Handbook, and is basically a fifth wheel when the game begins. Another issue is the fact that whenever we play, I have to draw up new character sheets for EVERY FLIPPIN' PARTY MEMBER! Again, this is because I take the game more seriously than everyone else, and more importantly, I seem to be the only one who can make sense of what's written on a character sheet. I remember one time when we were playing and had next to no knowledge of the rules. The way we were playing basically was that any hit that threatened was a critical. Eventually, I learned the correct way this was done. When I brought this up during the game, my brother and I argued about it for a good five minutes until I finally got him to see sense. I don't want to have to spend my sessions explaining the rules to the party members. My brother has learned enough of the rules to get by, so there aren't any more issues like the one I described, but it gets difficult with other people, who are invited to join and have character sheets (filled out by me, naturally) before the game and have no idea how the game works. I'm thinking about just demanding that if you want to play, you have to read the Player's Handbook cover-to-cover, so you're not going into the game blind. This goes for me too, especially the Combat chapter. I wouldn't make characters for them...no way. If they don't want to then THEY need to find playable NPCs or something, pre-generated characters which is fine if it's cool with you. You need to for sure take some of the weight off of your shoulders...your playing DM and like 5 characters essentially..you can't do that to yourself. As far as your group, one of two things. Either A: you havn't snagged them yet with a really compelling game, or B: They just don't care, and no matter what you do they won't take it serious. If you want to play a serious game, I recomend finding some other people that at least know as much as you do and play, not DM with them. I know first hand what it's like to run a game for unappreciating players.
taradusis 05-24-07, 09:13 PM	Perhaps a scaled down Slayground?What they call a minigame these days.Set up a gladiatorial arena and have Pcs compete in 1 to 4 man teams,tell the other pcs that they can shout advice and place bets?Have a monster mash where they study a monster and then next week play it in the arena,Helps them to learn what monsters can do?RANDOM THOUGHTS
DarkNick 05-24-07, 09:31 PM	Zousha_Omenohu, yeah, I was a little harsh, and not very helpful (baby was up all night so I am a little bit blunt today :weep: ) so I apologise for that. Just a couple things I would like to point out that will definitly make your life easier. (some have been mentioned already) Use some published modules, the ones on this site are not bad, you don't even need to tell your players they are pre-made. These will give you a foundation for building your own. Something to use as a benchmark. You don't need to feel guilty about this. You can fit them into your campaign, most on this site are designed in a way that you can plonk them anywhere. Stick to core only for your first campaign or so. It will be so much easier - it will give your players a chance to really get to grips with the rules, and make it easier on you. You can add in all the other cool stuff later. Realisticly you have years to play so they won't go to waste. Make up a character with each player and explain as you go. This will give them a quick overview of the rules and get involved in creating their own character. You might not play the first session or so but it will be worth the effort. Run some practise combats to get used to the rules. Don't rush it. This will pay off big time. I hope it all goes well. Also don't stress about it, a green group can be hard to break in, especially a pesky younger brother... Maybe for your sanity try to find an existing group to join and give you some release.
temparus2000 05-24-07, 09:43 PM	Do you genuinely feel that you just aren't cut out to be a DM? Or is it just lack of experience? The later is not a problem. The vast majority of DM's suck the first few times they take the reigns. Like anything else, it takes practice. Your players seem to understand this. If this is the case, then just take your time and don't worrt too hard about being a "good" DM. Just pay attention to your mistakes and learn from them. Write them down if necessary so you can look them over prior to the next session. If, however, you feel that you simply aren't cut out to be a DM, then it is probably best that you step down. Some may call this quitting, but it's a simple fact that not everyone is able to DM well.
Zousha_Omenohu 05-24-07, 09:50 PM	I was actually planned to make up the characters this weekend if I could and do just that. I need to have the characters made before I can make the world history anyway since all the characters are the incarnations of famous heroes of the distant past. I'm going to have to wait to download some new adventures of the website as my regular computer isn't set up yet. And then I'm going to need to spend some more cash on paper and ink (it's not a laptop, you see). Once I have them they shouldn't be that hard to retcon.
DarkNick 05-24-07, 09:52 PM	I say stick with it. DMing can be extremely rewarding. Dming really is a continual learning process and you can only get better as long as you know what you could do better. You already have a good idea of your mistakes and weaknesses so you are well on the road to becomming a good DM.
Satyrus 05-24-07, 10:03 PM	That sounds almost identical to what happened to me last year when I started as DM and I was the only one who knew the rules, and not very well I mght add. But anyway I can agree with the others that a BBEG is a big help in your campaign even if he's not immediately presented in some way. Find some prestige class that interest you and then develop a super powerful version of that creature for your big boss. or... Try developing a cult or group that almost acts as the BBEG itself. I designed a world using the macro build as well and you said you were good at developing the history of a world. I'd be suprised if you don't already have several such factions that you could use. On a note to the pre-existing modules I've never really found them useful. Most have an interesting plot but smething always goes wrong. Those few pages can't possibly account for the infinite variation the PCs are possible of imagining, unless your'e using one of those enormous mods like the Sunless Citadel, in which case you have a much better memory and ability to organize than I do. If you roll bad all the time, well can't give much more advice than already's been given. Put the PCs in positions where it's more of them rolling to get around than you. For combat try placing them in difficult terrain with with obvious boundaries like a cliff or keep them inside smaller confined areas. Hope this helps, and good luck dealing with your brother. Mine doesn't play anymore but two of my players are brothers and they cause more interparty strife than you could possibly imagine. :banghead:
Loestalx 05-24-07, 10:39 PM	That sounds almost identical to what happened to me last year when I started as DM and I was the only one who knew the rules, and not very well I mght add. But anyway I can agree with the others that a BBEG is a big help in your campaign even if he's not immediately presented in some way. Find some prestige class that interest you and then develop a super powerful version of that creature for your big boss. or... Try developing a cult or group that almost acts as the BBEG itself. I designed a world using the macro build as well and you said you were good at developing the history of a world. I'd be suprised if you don't already have several such factions that you could use. On a note to the pre-existing modules I've never really found them useful. Most have an interesting plot but smething always goes wrong. Those few pages can't possibly account for the infinite variation the PCs are possible of imagining, unless your'e using one of those enormous mods like the Sunless Citadel, in which case you have a much better memory and ability to organize than I do. If you roll bad all the time, well can't give much more advice than already's been given. Put the PCs in positions where it's more of them rolling to get around than you. For combat try placing them in difficult terrain with with obvious boundaries like a cliff or keep them inside smaller confined areas. Hope this helps, and good luck dealing with your brother. Mine doesn't play anymore but two of my players are brothers and they cause more interparty strife than you could possibly imagine. :banghead: Mods are good, some people have a hard time dealing with mods when the group diverges from the linear plotline. Again, that's an experience thing. Learning to let players do what they will, while keeping the game on track. It takes quick thinking and creativity to do that with mods. 95% of groups rarely go directly on the track given by the mod itself.
sabrewolf 05-24-07, 11:10 PM	Whoa.. lotsīaīreplyes... Unfortunately my work dont allow my to read all of it, so I may say things already said by others. Yet here it goes: - Dont look down on yourself, DMing is a hard task and experience is not something that comes fast. Yet by trying your paws at it, it shows you are bold to try it and confident in your skills and knowledge of rules. - Published material is good, but us world-builders hardly use it "as is". We change small bits or use only parts of it. It works all the same - and save up some time and brain energy... And you dont need to tell the players about it.. :P - Smaller or mini-campaigns are good for beginers to learn (you may get new players along your time) as well as for gaining experience on game balance, combat and rules. - A great campaign setting is nice, but requires some work over the normal load that rests on a DMīs shoulders. Iīd advise to foccus less on it as you get some "XP" as a DM: only because itīs harder to pay attention to everything at the same time. - About dice fudging: If you make your rolls behind a shield, a fudge or two is nice to keep the drama of a scene - when a roll is anti-climatic - but it should be a resource to be used scarcely. Let most dice fall where tehy fall and if one roll will have a too great impact, lift the shield and let them see it. Iīm sure my players know I fudge on rare ocasions but they never complained about a lucky roll or a bad roll from a foe, for the chance of such happening to an ally is the same and the sudden turns and twists it causes have added to the fun so far... - The "reset" button is not a bad choice sometimes: wether going back to re-write something or to start fresh from a new begining. Sometimes things dont go all too well and keep fising it doenst help. Iīve a friend who have "reset" his games more then once, because it was veering too far away from what he wanted (and on some times we agreed and/or pointed it out to him). Sure things dont have to go perfectly like you envision but Dms ned to get some fun as well. My friend spoke true and clear with us and so far talking allways worked.. A good excuse to foccus less on the story and world, and trow various challenges to the group is the Great Guild: Start a game where all serve a common banner (say an adventurerīs academy) and have to go out on missions every now and then. That can both give you a chance for trowing stuff at them as well as giving them a place to retreat and ask for reinforcements and resupply... You can make it a mini campaign and either drop it or include it on your world latter on. But mostly, if they trust you to wear the DMīs mantle and all the weight it brings, be a little more confident in yourself. And talk to the group (everyone at the same time) about what you are thinking / feeling.. A test game can be fun as well - itīs a chance of pace and thatīs usually a good thing - and the return to your big world latter on may be even better.. All in all.. Good luck for you all And take care..
Zousha_Omenohu 05-24-07, 11:16 PM	Oh don't worry. My brother may be a stubborn, rapier-wielding, bagpipe-blowing jerk, but he really believes that I can DM this. I just wish he didn't hint at the fact that he'd like to start a campaign every time I'm home.
UltimateReality 05-25-07, 02:15 AM	Oh don't worry. My brother may be a stubborn, rapier-wielding, bagpipe-blowing jerk, but he really believes that I can DM this. I just wish he didn't hint at the fact that he'd like to start a campaign every time I'm home.Tell him that every time he mentions it, you're putting off the game by a week. :P You're the older brother, right? Put him in his place. :D (I'm an older sister, so I speak from experience.)
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 08:50 AM	I'm already going to need more than a week to prepare everything!:ton: But I know that I can DM and all he can do is this...:duel: Kind of interesting that he's playing a wizard.:D
Ubasrawr 05-25-07, 09:19 AM	i am usually the opposite of what you described. I don't plan out my homebrewed campaign, instead i just micro manage the little places and settings the players start out at. If you have great ideas or some BBEG have some kobolds that are his hirelings. Have some exceptional amount of gold on the kobolds and a letter of instructions signed. That leaves the party with an easy adventure hook if they are interested. Leave hooks around where they need to be and sooner or later you have them following a trail.
Phrennzy 05-25-07, 10:01 AM	I've asked my brother that repeatedly! When I do, he stubbornly insists that I make my own cool campaign.:mad: Why ask him? Grab a premade, and go for it. If he complains, tell him, "The DM chair is ready for you at any time. Until then, shut the hell up and roll initiative."
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 01:04 PM	I guess at the moment, that's the plan, though at the moment it'll be more like "shut the hell up and roll yer ability scores"...for the umpteenth time!
UltimateReality 05-25-07, 01:25 PM	I guess at the moment, that's the plan, though at the moment it'll be more like "shut the hell up and roll yer ability scores"...for the umpteenth time! You may want to keep everyone's character sheets between sessions if they're constantly losing them. (It also lets you gauge encounters when you're planning the session.)
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 01:26 PM	Frankly, we're not losing them. It's just that every session I've run is to get this big, heroic campaign off the ground. When it falls flat on its face as expected, we start over. I plan on holding on to the character sheets this time around anyway. I need to know everything about the PCs in order to even plan the campaign.
UltimateReality 05-25-07, 02:05 PM	When it falls flat on its face as expected, we start over.How does it fall flat? Do you kill all the characters? Unless they actually die, or WANT to remake new characters, I wouldn't bother. Sometimes it takes a couple sessions for the campaign to get rolling and the players to get into their characters. I have had more than a few bad sessions. You are restricting them all to core only, level 1, right? That is by far the best way to start DMing -- even if you've been playing for years.
Forgarn 05-25-07, 03:14 PM	How does it fall flat? Do you kill all the characters? Unless they actually die, or WANT to remake new characters, I wouldn't bother. Sometimes it takes a couple sessions for the campaign to get rolling and the players to get into their characters. I have had more than a few bad sessions. You are restricting them all to core only, level 1, right? That is by far the best way to start DMing -- even if you've been playing for years. I totally agree. That is how I got started. Level 1, core books only, pre-made campaign. You can't go wrong with that. There are a lot of pre-mades on this site that are designed to fit into any world. And they are fairly good modules too. That way you can concentrate on getting into the groove of combat and judging the EL/CR system to start working on your adventures (or not if you like the pre-mades).
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 06:58 PM	How does it fall flat? Do you kill all the characters? Unless they actually die, or WANT to remake new characters, I wouldn't bother. Sometimes it takes a couple sessions for the campaign to get rolling and the players to get into their characters. I have had more than a few bad sessions. It mainly falls flat because it turns out to be the same thing over and over. The PCs meet in a town, hear about a local group of smugglers/bandits/orcs/random criminal element, go to their lair, and wipe them out. After that the sessions over and I have no idea what to do for the second one. I need to prepare these things better.:blush:
taradusis 05-25-07, 08:16 PM	Draw up a rumors list of things going on in the area.Bandits,dragons,Undead and other things.Roll on the random encounters list and look it over and see who the locals would be talking about.This gives PCs some choice in adventures and a chance to use Gather Info checks at bars.
Phrennzy 05-25-07, 08:25 PM	It mainly falls flat because it turns out to be the same thing over and over. The PCs meet in a town, hear about a local group of smugglers/bandits/orcs/random criminal element, go to their lair, and wipe them out. After that the sessions over and I have no idea what to do for the second one. I need to prepare these things better.:blush: Dude, that is how EVERY D&D game starts. Don't sweat it. Use very cliche. Dragon kidnaps princess. Orcs threaten farmland. Evil wizard curses land. Evil Cleric animates horde of undead. Evil Cult opens portal to Abyss. There - now you have 5 plotlines for 5 adventure arcs. Fill in the blanks. Or swap em around: Dragon kidnaps horde of undead . Orcs threaten princess. Evil wizard curses Abyss . Evil Cleric animates land. Evil Cult opens portal to farmland . Granted, those aren't all winners, but some are. (I lol'd at the last one - yes I announce when I find me hilarious.)
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 08:53 PM	Evil cult opens portal to farmland hmmmm..... I might need to look into that one.:evillaugh
sabrewolf 05-25-07, 09:30 PM	Dragon kidnaps horde of undead . Orcs threaten princess. Evil wizard curses Abyss . Evil Cleric animates land. Evil Cult opens portal to farmland . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :heehee :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: "priceless" @ Topic. First sessions to me are usualy S L O W . . . If you start a game with an adventure and ends it at the same session, youīre doing better then me. :P Lattely Iīm requesting a background for each character (initially was a short thing, now iīm asking for a couple pagesī worth.. but my players are improoving) I use the background to think small plots for each. Itīs how to put them together in a working group that eats up the first sessionīs time. Another thing I do is droping a plot or two where they begin and few others scattered not too far.. and let them find them out by learning the local rumours and gossips (gather information). This way they end up with more then a single quest and can choose wich one to pick and when... So far they allways had at least 5 quests (including their characterīs life goal) to worry about... This eased my work in letting them choose their path (instead of me needing to bait them somewhere) leaving me only to figure out what happens when they go there.. or when thay dont... :D
Magrus 05-25-07, 09:30 PM	I gave up after reading the first page worth of posts. Some suggestions: 1. Make every single player read the players handbook, at least the sections for the following topics: Ability scores, Races, Classes, Combat, Magic 2. Make them create a character. 3. If they refuse to do either of the above, they do not play. Seriously, do not let them play. Offer to help if they need help, but make sure they understand you are there to help, not do. Big difference. Hand holding only works so far, and this is a game where you need to grasp at least the basics, and you need to be moderately independent. If they can't make, update, and run their characters fully and totally on their own, it slows the game down. It makes YOU pause the game, and show them how to do so. You control everything BUT the characters, they control only their characters. Make sure they control their itsy bitsy friggin chars! If they don't know how to use a grapple and their build is focused around being a grappler, guess what? They need to learn the rules or scrap the build. You should not have to dig for rules and do the work yourself. 4. If you aren't comfortable, tell them so. If they whine, shrug, close your books and go do something else that is fun for you. DM'ing takes a lot of time, energy and work. If it isn't fun for you, it's work. You aren't getting paid, so..would you show up to work with a bunch of whiny folk if you weren't getting paid? 5. Start simple. Tell them you need to learn the rules better, and so do they. Make one plot, let them know that this will be simple, to follow the clues, and everyone can learn together. Start them in say, a basic town, with ONLY Player's Handbook material for characters. This is huge. Keep it basic. No Warlocks, no Scouts, no ECL 6, no Goblin or Centaur or Dragon PC's. Halfling, human, dwarf, elf, gnome, etc. BASIC. They hunt down goblins and bandits outside of a cozy farming village. Once that's all done with and you can say to yourself "Awesome, I've gotten AC and attack bonus, and 5' step, and full attack action down, let's see what else we can try!" you move on. NOT before then. If they whine, you still can shrug and go find something else to do. You are god, as well as dragon, peasant, lord and grave-digger in this game. If they can't grasp that they aren't ready for what they want, you show them. Hit them with what you know and run them down like dogs. Break their characters, and have them take another lesson in character building. It'll help build character. 6. The only reason I am saying all of this is the fact that you seem very humble, and laid back. You don't seem to be the power crazed sadist DM that shouts down those who challenge him/her and gleefully pick off any character they dislike. You need to learn how to be assertive when running the game and push your needs ahead of their wants. 7. I avoid pre-mades like I avoid STD's and bullet wounds. That's my personal choice. So, speaking personally, there is nothing that will help you more than picking up the DM guide, the MM and perhaps a campaign setting source book like the FR, Eberron or Dragonlance books. You don't have any of the Dragonlance books, but to be brutally honest, I think that's a great setting to introduce characters to the game. Eberron and FR are more along the lines of advanced or power-gamer based settings. Dragonlance is far more limited in power level and what you will encounter, so stick with something like that. Don't worry about being repetitive or cliche at the start. It's ok to hound them with stupid goblins and orcs. Chances are good the players are being stupid in game as well. Throwing liches at them won't be a challenge, it will be a slaughter. Not to mention the fact, if you don't have the rules down, you probably cannot play a high Int monster properly yet either. 8. Put your foot down and bar character concepts that you see that a player is incapable of playing. If you know Player A is a doofus, don't let him play a high Int and serious wizard if you don't think he can do it properly. It IS a roleplaying game, if you know the player is an idiot, he can't play a genius. There are player limits that should be enforced. 9. If you try and try again, and realize you aren't cut out for being a DM, don't sweat it. It takes a special mindset to be a decent DM. Generally the whole creative mindset doesn't mesh too often with the organized mindset, and you definitely need both. Not to mention the inter-personal skills to handle a group that will pull you in many different directions. Don't forget patience, and blah blah blah. Let the group know, that's your right, and it's ok. 10. The fact you came up and explained this all and asked for help says a lot about you. Hopefully, you can work this out, as if you can wrap your head around the rules, and kick your players into shape, I think you'd make a good DM.
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 09:44 PM	That's another thing that bugs me. Most of the players that I've worked with in the past are a little difficult to do the role-playing with. My brother is a stubborn jerk, don't get me wrong, but I think that he can do well playing a high-INT character. I've nevere really had good role-playing because when they tried it, they invariably got into trouble. I remember one time when they tried to talk down the watch captain who'd come to arrest the bartender. It was embarrasing. When they get out of situations like these, they go fight stuff, so there's not much room for talking. Other than that, my brother's really the only one at this point who'd probably role-play well. My sister has made an honest attempt (she always plays roguish-type halflings). She does need more practice though. In that same bar where they tried to talk down the watch captain, she was at the bar the whole time downing ale after ale after ale!:pint: That little halfling probably could drink a dwarf under the table! She never had that much of an interest in the game anyway, and I doubt she'll join us this time around. Another one who's been there a while plays a lot of dwarf types, and always makes sure his character has some pipeweed handy.
Magrus 05-25-07, 10:09 PM	That's another thing that bugs me. Most of the players that I've worked with in the past are a little difficult to do the role-playing with. My brother is a stubborn jerk, don't get me wrong, but I think that he can do well playing a high-INT character. I've nevere really had good role-playing because when they tried it, they invariably got into trouble. I remember one time when they tried to talk down the watch captain who'd come to arrest the bartender. It was embarrasing. When they get out of situations like these, they go fight stuff, so there's not much room for talking. Other than that, my brother's really the only one at this point who'd probably role-play well. My sister has made an honest attempt (she always plays roguish-type halflings). She does need more practice though. In that same bar where they tried to talk down the watch captain, she was at the bar the whole time downing ale after ale after ale!:pint: That little halfling probably could drink a dwarf under the table! She never had that much of an interest in the game anyway, and I doubt she'll join us this time around. Another one who's been there a while plays a lot of dwarf types, and always makes sure his character has some pipeweed handy. That sounds like trouble. I doubt you'll enjoy this game they want you to run in that case. If so, do what makes you closest to happy. Worst case scenario they refuse to play the game, and you don't end up sighing and banging your head on your DM guide cover due to them getting their characters drunk, arrested, and beheaded due to the nonsense they pull.
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 10:17 PM	Well, once they have a better grip on the rules and a little coaching, I bet they'll go far. Like I said my sister (who played the alcoholic halfling) probably won't be joining us for the game, as it doesn't interest her that much. Though she probably would be a better role-player with a bit of practice. She is a member in good standing of the high school drama club. My brother is too, for that matter. One of the main reasons they get into situations like these is due to poor decision making due to lack of information (I wasn't the one DMing the session with the drunken halfling).
Magrus 05-25-07, 10:24 PM	Hmm, discuss this kind of thing with them, out of character, DM to player. Ask what they want from the game. Lots of roleplaying? Lots of hack and slash? Hash that out next session instead of playing, or better yet, before the session so you can plan accordingly. That is important, and it sounds like as a group you folks haven't done that yet. Get their wants and needs, then compare yours, make a happy middle ground and run with it.
Zousha_Omenohu 05-25-07, 10:25 PM	Will do!