An XP Problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

An XP Problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aishar
03-16-05, 11:56 AM My players just told me that they think I'm giving out far too little XP, and that they are gaining levels very slowly, and that it bugs them.
Frankly, I do give out a very small amount of XP, judging from the fact that they're rising in level once every three or more months. However, my campaign is not based on combat, and is far more investigation- and problem-solving-oriented. All in all, I only find myself giving XP for roleplaying (and there's not an overwhelming amount of it) and the casual fight with a villain, which still happens only once a month or two.

Give me your opinions, I believe a need them badly...
PenderGrass
03-16-05, 12:10 PM My players just told me that they think I'm giving out far too little XP, and that they are gaining levels very slowly, and that it bugs them.
Frankly, I do give out a very small amount of XP, judging from the fact that they're rising in level once every three or more months. However, my campaign is not based on combat, and is far more investigation- and problem-solving-oriented. All in all, I only find myself giving XP for roleplaying (and there's not an overwhelming amount of it) and the casual fight with a villain, which still happens only once a month or two.

Give me your opinions, I believe a need them badly...
An easy solution that I have found is to assign a CR to investigative resolutions.

Say you have a 5th Level group that is assigned to investigate a murder of a Guild Master. Their first move is to investigate the murder scene for clues. They find a slight magical resonance, illusion type, so go over to speak with a Gnome NPC they have dealt with before. A simple lead like this is fairly easy and is an expected route for most anyone, so assign their following it a CR1.

Later on, they do something so totally unexpected and decide to take the illusion aura clue from before and try to recreate the exact type of aura by casting every illusion spell one at a time and comparing it to what they saw. This is fairly creative, so give them a CR6 for doing it.

When they solve the murder mystery, determine whether they should have done so with little, moderate or extreme challenge. Then give them a final overall CR reward that matches what you think. A very hard investigation may be a CR7 or CR8 for a 5th level group.

Take that, modify to your taste - then, at least they are getting some XP for meeting and overcoming the type of challenges you are throwing at them.

:dragon:

****
Tazi Swiftblade
03-16-05, 12:17 PM You are the DM. How quickly do YOU want them to level? If you're doing your best to make it an exciting, engaging campaign, then what's wrong with them staying at a level for a couple months.

But if you feel it's going to slowly, perhaps you should give out more XP when they solve problems. If solving problems/puzzles/traps is what they're doing instead of fighting monsters, then the best idea is probably to give out more XP for each obstacle they overcome.

If figuring out a particular quandry eats up as much of their time and energy as, for example, battling 10 orcs, why not look in the books and figure out how much XP they would have gotten from the orc encounter and give that to them for solving the problem.

Running a game not centered around combat can be fun but it's also challenging.
fistanthius
03-16-05, 12:56 PM You have to keep your players happy. If they have fun with very little combat and a whole lot of investigation, then everything sounds fine. If there are a few fighters, then a low combat campaign may seem like a waste of time for them. Keeping your players happy can keep your campaign living.
allenchan
03-16-05, 01:16 PM Sounds like you need to give out more xp. Pretty simple. If I played once a week for three months and I didnt level up, yea, I would be pretty ****** off too. Assign the tasks and problem-solving situations CRs (as has been mentioned). Frankly, that should be stupidly obvious.
Capt. Pixel
03-16-05, 01:23 PM If you're handing them status-quo encounters, then they should be leveling up about every ten encounters. Two or three encounters each session should move them along a level about every four or five sessions.

If you're group is only playing twice a month or every-other week, I'd say you were about par.

In our games we like to climb levels quickly. So not only do I give the DMG recommended XP, but they also get 100 XP/PC level each session. At the end of the last game, their level 17 PCs were getting 1,700 XP just for showing up! :cool:

In 12 months, my party went from 10th level to 17th level. (This was almost too quick, as the Players seemed to have difficulty adjusting to new spells, additional attacks, etc. Just about the time they got comfortable with their new level, they went up again.)
pres_man
03-16-05, 01:29 PM The PCs are suppose to level up after 13 1/3 encounters of their level. Depending on how many "encounters" you are having them deal with each session and how many sessions you are having in a month, that should give you an idea about how often they should level.

In my game I look to have 3-4 "encounters" a session usually at least 2 of these are combat, with the other 1 or 2 being roleplaying "encounters". I then give xp based on that, not on CR or anything. My PCs level every 4-5 sessions.

As others have said, don't drag level on forever just because you decide to have more roleplaying then rollplaying. Players will still want to increase their skills and abilities even if they are not always in combat. If you feel that this too fast for their characters to get better, then have some dead time between sessions. "It's a about a year since the four of you have gotten together ..."
Thoronmir
03-16-05, 01:47 PM Even if your campaign focuses more on roleplaying than combat, the PCs ought to be facing obstacles and challenges to overcome. For example, using Diplomacy and other skills to forestall a civil war should be worth as much XP as winning a fight. As others have said, you need to assign Challenge Ratings to the tasks the party is accomplishing and award XP on that basis. A dearth of combat is no excuse to not award them XP.

Their pace of leveling (once every three or more months) seems slow, but it really depends on how often you meet. But it sounds as if you are shortchanging them on XP for encounters that do not involve combat. If the party successfully “investigates” or solves the “problem,” they deserve XP.
weasel fierce
03-16-05, 02:09 PM Be sure to distinguish between players wanting more kewl powerz, and players genuinely frustrated
ArochanoX
03-16-05, 02:57 PM If you don't have much combat, give them static 300XP x level per gaming session. If someone in the party is 1 level behind, give hin 350XP x level. If someone is 1 level ahead the party, give him 250XP x level. If you use this system, don't give them any other XP from fighting, completing quests etc.

The amount of XP this system gives is an average XP a character gains in gaming session, when there's some fighting. 3 or 4 gaming sessions for a level I guess.
aleph_woodenglenn
03-16-05, 02:59 PM I agree with thoronmir, and the others who posted likewise.
"investigation- and problem-solving" indeed overcome obstacles just as much as combat. In my opinion, a party who shows keen problem solving skills regardless of combat deserves XP. If a party talks their way out of a battle I give them full XP, unless by doing so they have otherwise endangered themselves or others
(ie if a party talks their way out of a battle with a band of (fill in with appropriate baddy) and the baddies proceed to decimate the village, very little if any xp will be gained. However if they encounter a relatively benign enemy whose living does not matter but whose death would cost precious resources, time, etc, they would get more XP than a combat encounter with the same foe would garner)
Ultimately it is up to you, but I consider an encounter with the friendly jailkeeper (or whatever) that gives players all the info they need on capturing the escaped prisoner, more XP worthy than the fight to subdue a gang of hoodlums to gain the same information (wisely averted resource and health loss)
ShadowDragon8685
03-16-05, 03:52 PM Simply put - if the players are unhappy, you should do something to correct it. You are, after all, the one who is dictating things like XP to them. If they are unhappy long enough, you will be unhappy and in need of a good group.

On the other hand, if you prove to them that you are a kind and considerate DM who will listen to the player's needs and react accordingly, you will help to cement yourself as a Good DM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aishar 03-16-05, 11:56 AM	My players just told me that they think I'm giving out far too little XP, and that they are gaining levels very slowly, and that it bugs them. Frankly, I do give out a very small amount of XP, judging from the fact that they're rising in level once every three or more months. However, my campaign is not based on combat, and is far more investigation- and problem-solving-oriented. All in all, I only find myself giving XP for roleplaying (and there's not an overwhelming amount of it) and the casual fight with a villain, which still happens only once a month or two. Give me your opinions, I believe a need them badly...
PenderGrass 03-16-05, 12:10 PM	My players just told me that they think I'm giving out far too little XP, and that they are gaining levels very slowly, and that it bugs them. Frankly, I do give out a very small amount of XP, judging from the fact that they're rising in level once every three or more months. However, my campaign is not based on combat, and is far more investigation- and problem-solving-oriented. All in all, I only find myself giving XP for roleplaying (and there's not an overwhelming amount of it) and the casual fight with a villain, which still happens only once a month or two. Give me your opinions, I believe a need them badly... An easy solution that I have found is to assign a CR to investigative resolutions. Say you have a 5th Level group that is assigned to investigate a murder of a Guild Master. Their first move is to investigate the murder scene for clues. They find a slight magical resonance, illusion type, so go over to speak with a Gnome NPC they have dealt with before. A simple lead like this is fairly easy and is an expected route for most anyone, so assign their following it a CR1. Later on, they do something so totally unexpected and decide to take the illusion aura clue from before and try to recreate the exact type of aura by casting every illusion spell one at a time and comparing it to what they saw. This is fairly creative, so give them a CR6 for doing it. When they solve the murder mystery, determine whether they should have done so with little, moderate or extreme challenge. Then give them a final overall CR reward that matches what you think. A very hard investigation may be a CR7 or CR8 for a 5th level group. Take that, modify to your taste - then, at least they are getting some XP for meeting and overcoming the type of challenges you are throwing at them. :dragon: ****
Tazi Swiftblade 03-16-05, 12:17 PM	You are the DM. How quickly do YOU want them to level? If you're doing your best to make it an exciting, engaging campaign, then what's wrong with them staying at a level for a couple months. But if you feel it's going to slowly, perhaps you should give out more XP when they solve problems. If solving problems/puzzles/traps is what they're doing instead of fighting monsters, then the best idea is probably to give out more XP for each obstacle they overcome. If figuring out a particular quandry eats up as much of their time and energy as, for example, battling 10 orcs, why not look in the books and figure out how much XP they would have gotten from the orc encounter and give that to them for solving the problem. Running a game not centered around combat can be fun but it's also challenging.
fistanthius 03-16-05, 12:56 PM	You have to keep your players happy. If they have fun with very little combat and a whole lot of investigation, then everything sounds fine. If there are a few fighters, then a low combat campaign may seem like a waste of time for them. Keeping your players happy can keep your campaign living.
allenchan 03-16-05, 01:16 PM	Sounds like you need to give out more xp. Pretty simple. If I played once a week for three months and I didnt level up, yea, I would be pretty ****** off too. Assign the tasks and problem-solving situations CRs (as has been mentioned). Frankly, that should be stupidly obvious.
Capt. Pixel 03-16-05, 01:23 PM	If you're handing them status-quo encounters, then they should be leveling up about every ten encounters. Two or three encounters each session should move them along a level about every four or five sessions. If you're group is only playing twice a month or every-other week, I'd say you were about par. In our games we like to climb levels quickly. So not only do I give the DMG recommended XP, but they also get 100 XP/PC level each session. At the end of the last game, their level 17 PCs were getting 1,700 XP just for showing up! :cool: In 12 months, my party went from 10th level to 17th level. (This was almost too quick, as the Players seemed to have difficulty adjusting to new spells, additional attacks, etc. Just about the time they got comfortable with their new level, they went up again.)
pres_man 03-16-05, 01:29 PM	The PCs are suppose to level up after 13 1/3 encounters of their level. Depending on how many "encounters" you are having them deal with each session and how many sessions you are having in a month, that should give you an idea about how often they should level. In my game I look to have 3-4 "encounters" a session usually at least 2 of these are combat, with the other 1 or 2 being roleplaying "encounters". I then give xp based on that, not on CR or anything. My PCs level every 4-5 sessions. As others have said, don't drag level on forever just because you decide to have more roleplaying then rollplaying. Players will still want to increase their skills and abilities even if they are not always in combat. If you feel that this too fast for their characters to get better, then have some dead time between sessions. "It's a about a year since the four of you have gotten together ..."
Thoronmir 03-16-05, 01:47 PM	Even if your campaign focuses more on roleplaying than combat, the PCs ought to be facing obstacles and challenges to overcome. For example, using Diplomacy and other skills to forestall a civil war should be worth as much XP as winning a fight. As others have said, you need to assign Challenge Ratings to the tasks the party is accomplishing and award XP on that basis. A dearth of combat is no excuse to not award them XP. Their pace of leveling (once every three or more months) seems slow, but it really depends on how often you meet. But it sounds as if you are shortchanging them on XP for encounters that do not involve combat. If the party successfully “investigates” or solves the “problem,” they deserve XP.
weasel fierce 03-16-05, 02:09 PM	Be sure to distinguish between players wanting more kewl powerz, and players genuinely frustrated
ArochanoX 03-16-05, 02:57 PM	If you don't have much combat, give them static 300XP x level per gaming session. If someone in the party is 1 level behind, give hin 350XP x level. If someone is 1 level ahead the party, give him 250XP x level. If you use this system, don't give them any other XP from fighting, completing quests etc. The amount of XP this system gives is an average XP a character gains in gaming session, when there's some fighting. 3 or 4 gaming sessions for a level I guess.
aleph_woodenglenn 03-16-05, 02:59 PM	I agree with thoronmir, and the others who posted likewise. "investigation- and problem-solving" indeed overcome obstacles just as much as combat. In my opinion, a party who shows keen problem solving skills regardless of combat deserves XP. If a party talks their way out of a battle I give them full XP, unless by doing so they have otherwise endangered themselves or others (ie if a party talks their way out of a battle with a band of (fill in with appropriate baddy) and the baddies proceed to decimate the village, very little if any xp will be gained. However if they encounter a relatively benign enemy whose living does not matter but whose death would cost precious resources, time, etc, they would get more XP than a combat encounter with the same foe would garner) Ultimately it is up to you, but I consider an encounter with the friendly jailkeeper (or whatever) that gives players all the info they need on capturing the escaped prisoner, more XP worthy than the fight to subdue a gang of hoodlums to gain the same information (wisely averted resource and health loss)
ShadowDragon8685 03-16-05, 03:52 PM	Simply put - if the players are unhappy, you should do something to correct it. You are, after all, the one who is dictating things like XP to them. If they are unhappy long enough, you will be unhappy and in need of a good group. On the other hand, if you prove to them that you are a kind and considerate DM who will listen to the player's needs and react accordingly, you will help to cement yourself as a Good DM.