Ancient and terrible magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ancient and terrible magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rolzup
02-23-04, 07:39 PM Here's the thing.

I'm planning a campaign that will center around the awakening of the "Dead Gods". The Dead Gods are ancient and nameless horrors, cast into the Abyss millenia ago by the current crop of gods.

I want the worshippers of the Dead Gods to have access to magic that is fundamentally *different* than the standard D&D style.

Right now, I'm waffling between the Runethanes of _Arcanna Unearthed_ and some variant of the Mythos magic from D20 Call of Cthulhu.

Neither of these things is exactly what I'm looking for...although I'm not even certain what that is. All I'm really sure of is that I want to strike the balance between "Powerful enough to be scary and challenging" and "Overwhelmingly powerful".

If you know what I mean.

Any suggestions?
AncientHugeRedFacedDM
02-26-04, 09:23 PM Here is an idea I've played around with but never used. Perhaps it would fit here.

Make the magic available from the Ancient gods terrifyingly powerful, BUT, any such spell always has a penalty or cost to the person who cast it.

Example: AMAZINGLY POWERFUL SPELL EFFECT but caster is immediately knocked unconsious for 1d6 rounds.

Example: AMAZINGLY POWERFUL SPELL EFFECT but caster permanently loses one point of Charisma every time the spell is used.

Example: AMAZINGLY POWERFUL SPELL EFFECT but caster take 6d6 damage from side effects of the spell.

You get the idea I'm sure. Let the followers of the Ancient ones cast TERRIBLE MAGICS, but balance this power by making the wielding of such spells come at a aweful cost.

One suggestion, have fun, -Hal
Zar Niln
02-26-04, 10:25 PM Skreebo has been wondering around the countryside, from dungeon to dungeon, piecing together an ancient piece of knowledge. Apparently, the gods forbade it. Moradin has sent a paladin, Pelor a powerful cleric to assist in its destruction. There is roughly a 30% chance Skreebo will betray the group to examine the knowledge. That's how tempting it can be.
Wilds
02-26-04, 11:20 PM look in cthuhlu book
Fixxxer
02-27-04, 12:27 AM Originally posted by Wilds
look in cthuhlu book

Didn't he mention that he'd already done that and found it lacking?

You might try picking up a copy of "Chaos Magic" by Mongoose Publishing. It's a bit powerful compared to standard magic, but not too much so. The benefit is that you can spontaniously create spell effects on the spot as you need them. The drawback is that, as AncientHugeRedFacedDM suggested, using the magic physically hurts you and will eventually send you walking down a horrible path the will end with either your death (if you're lucky) or the damnation of your soul to the far realms. Sounds right up the alley of some long-dead gods.
artman
02-27-04, 12:29 AM Look to alternate campaign settings or different d20 games. The Conan RPG has an entirely different magic system. I'm sure there are others out there. You could also use psionics, either the D&D or one of the many alternative versions online, if you haven't already.

There is also something called blood magic from the "Wonders Out of Time" book. It uses normal D&D spells but costs HP to use them and has no limits per day, IIRC.
BlackWand
02-27-04, 06:21 AM There is this Chaos magic you could use, dont know in which soure tho.
Toptomcat
02-27-04, 09:11 AM You may want to try importing another system's magic system with only VERY rough conversion...
Makes it seem ailen.
Vyvyan Basterd
02-27-04, 09:21 AM Do you already use Psionics in your campaign? If not, using the 'psionics are different' variant might be a good idea.
Wayward Son
02-27-04, 09:56 AM Whatever difference you choose for the magic, have you considered adding a Sanity system? If you don't like the CoC system, there is one in Unearthed Arcana (I'm not sure if they are similar or the same, as I don't have d20 CoC). Since the Elder . . . um, Dead Gods are so utterly different, using their magic may have some interesting effects of the minds of mere mortals. Let each spell deal a loss of sanity to the user (or even subjects/spectators, if it's powerful enough). The more they cast, the more their grip on sanity slips away. The cultists may even see madness as a sign of the Dead Gods' blessing, and rever mad casters as insipred agents of the Dead Gods, fanatically following their every whim. :D

Perhaps the sanity loss could increase if the spells are cast with more power than normal, and the casters needing to balance the power of the spell against their fading grip on reality.

Just a thought.
bjorntfh
02-27-04, 10:01 AM IMC the magics of the Old Ones has a simple cost: Sanity

Every time you cast one of their spells you lose 1d10 sanity per spell level. This might not seem like much (since I allow sanity resistance = wisdom bonus+level) but when you drop a Word of Annihilation (9th level Old One Spell, the spells can be cast by any caster with the aproprite slot) and lose 40+ sanity in one blow... suffice to say it's not a pretty sight. Although you did kill whoever you were casting the spell at. And probably everyone within 50' of him. And probably yourself.

Sanity cost for powerful spells is REALLY effective at curbing their use. PCs don't get that much sanity and the act of losing half in one blow makes them VERY leery of simply spellslinging the really powerful ones.
Bomba
02-27-04, 01:17 PM first i'm going to assume that the old gods are not completely dead (only mostly dead) cause they can still grant spells. so either they are slowly awakening or they are just imprisoned and have either found away to weaken whatever is holding them or the spells that have imprisoned them are degrading over time and they now can grant spells to the few worshipers that they have managed to gain.

now for my ideas.

1st if you want things more powerful i would grant spells that have a lower level req. then the standard spells either one or 2 levels less. so for example a fireball would be a 2nd instead of third level spell.

2nd i would treat the spells as more of a ritual instead of somethign that takes only one round to cast. maybe 1 round per spell level. this would balence the higher power and also require the caster to have a bunch of minions to protect him either followers of the same god or maybe unturnable undead that he created prior to the battle.

3rd any effect that the spells create i would be harder to dispell kind of like shadow magic in FR raise the dispell check from 11 + caster level to something higher 15, 20 whatever you think is appropriate.

4th make the divine focus or the matirial component something extravagant. like a live 10' python. somethign the player would notice cause it is so different. or make a sacrifice necissary since the gods are still asleep and you need more then just your power to cast the spells they grant.

5th i would give the NPC spell casters a selection of normal spells and only throw in one of these as a surprise to keep them on thier toes or maybehave them witness the effect from a distance so they cant prevent the casting of the spell so they get an idea of what these casters can do.

as far as the spells go themselves I'll try to think up some discriptions for some weird things. what are you looking for these spelsl to do?

what are these "dead" god gods of? you can tailor the spells you give the NPCs based on what the gods do.

have you looked in the book of vile darkness its got some great evil spells you could easily modify them to for a situation like this.

thats all i can think of for right now i'm hung over and i need to get back to sleep if i think of anything else i'll post it later
bjorntfh
02-27-04, 01:24 PM I always liked using the sanity system for every PC but Alienists. IMC Alienists don't have sanity scores, but automatically have certain derangements. Of course, if you're crazy enough to actually try to become a servitor of one of the Old Ones... you're pretty much nuts already aren't you?

*scrawls impossible symbols into the air drooling quietly* Oh, huh? That, it's nothing.
Sondur Dragonbane
02-27-04, 01:37 PM You could check out the Corrupt spells in the Book of Vile Darkness. They are more powerful than standard spells of the same levels but cause ability damage and/or drain from the caster.

I have used a few spells from there to represent old magic in one of my camapigns.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rolzup 02-23-04, 07:39 PM	Here's the thing. I'm planning a campaign that will center around the awakening of the "Dead Gods". The Dead Gods are ancient and nameless horrors, cast into the Abyss millenia ago by the current crop of gods. I want the worshippers of the Dead Gods to have access to magic that is fundamentally different than the standard D&D style. Right now, I'm waffling between the Runethanes of _Arcanna Unearthed_ and some variant of the Mythos magic from D20 Call of Cthulhu. Neither of these things is exactly what I'm looking for...although I'm not even certain what that is. All I'm really sure of is that I want to strike the balance between "Powerful enough to be scary and challenging" and "Overwhelmingly powerful". If you know what I mean. Any suggestions?
AncientHugeRedFacedDM 02-26-04, 09:23 PM	Here is an idea I've played around with but never used. Perhaps it would fit here. Make the magic available from the Ancient gods terrifyingly powerful, BUT, any such spell always has a penalty or cost to the person who cast it. Example: AMAZINGLY POWERFUL SPELL EFFECT but caster is immediately knocked unconsious for 1d6 rounds. Example: AMAZINGLY POWERFUL SPELL EFFECT but caster permanently loses one point of Charisma every time the spell is used. Example: AMAZINGLY POWERFUL SPELL EFFECT but caster take 6d6 damage from side effects of the spell. You get the idea I'm sure. Let the followers of the Ancient ones cast TERRIBLE MAGICS, but balance this power by making the wielding of such spells come at a aweful cost. One suggestion, have fun, -Hal
Zar Niln 02-26-04, 10:25 PM	Skreebo has been wondering around the countryside, from dungeon to dungeon, piecing together an ancient piece of knowledge. Apparently, the gods forbade it. Moradin has sent a paladin, Pelor a powerful cleric to assist in its destruction. There is roughly a 30% chance Skreebo will betray the group to examine the knowledge. That's how tempting it can be.
Wilds 02-26-04, 11:20 PM	look in cthuhlu book
Fixxxer 02-27-04, 12:27 AM	Originally posted by Wilds look in cthuhlu book Didn't he mention that he'd already done that and found it lacking? You might try picking up a copy of "Chaos Magic" by Mongoose Publishing. It's a bit powerful compared to standard magic, but not too much so. The benefit is that you can spontaniously create spell effects on the spot as you need them. The drawback is that, as AncientHugeRedFacedDM suggested, using the magic physically hurts you and will eventually send you walking down a horrible path the will end with either your death (if you're lucky) or the damnation of your soul to the far realms. Sounds right up the alley of some long-dead gods.
artman 02-27-04, 12:29 AM	Look to alternate campaign settings or different d20 games. The Conan RPG has an entirely different magic system. I'm sure there are others out there. You could also use psionics, either the D&D or one of the many alternative versions online, if you haven't already. There is also something called blood magic from the "Wonders Out of Time" book. It uses normal D&D spells but costs HP to use them and has no limits per day, IIRC.
BlackWand 02-27-04, 06:21 AM	There is this Chaos magic you could use, dont know in which soure tho.
Toptomcat 02-27-04, 09:11 AM	You may want to try importing another system's magic system with only VERY rough conversion... Makes it seem ailen.
Vyvyan Basterd 02-27-04, 09:21 AM	Do you already use Psionics in your campaign? If not, using the 'psionics are different' variant might be a good idea.
Wayward Son 02-27-04, 09:56 AM	Whatever difference you choose for the magic, have you considered adding a Sanity system? If you don't like the CoC system, there is one in Unearthed Arcana (I'm not sure if they are similar or the same, as I don't have d20 CoC). Since the Elder . . . um, Dead Gods are so utterly different, using their magic may have some interesting effects of the minds of mere mortals. Let each spell deal a loss of sanity to the user (or even subjects/spectators, if it's powerful enough). The more they cast, the more their grip on sanity slips away. The cultists may even see madness as a sign of the Dead Gods' blessing, and rever mad casters as insipred agents of the Dead Gods, fanatically following their every whim. :D Perhaps the sanity loss could increase if the spells are cast with more power than normal, and the casters needing to balance the power of the spell against their fading grip on reality. Just a thought.
bjorntfh 02-27-04, 10:01 AM	IMC the magics of the Old Ones has a simple cost: Sanity Every time you cast one of their spells you lose 1d10 sanity per spell level. This might not seem like much (since I allow sanity resistance = wisdom bonus+level) but when you drop a Word of Annihilation (9th level Old One Spell, the spells can be cast by any caster with the aproprite slot) and lose 40+ sanity in one blow... suffice to say it's not a pretty sight. Although you did kill whoever you were casting the spell at. And probably everyone within 50' of him. And probably yourself. Sanity cost for powerful spells is REALLY effective at curbing their use. PCs don't get that much sanity and the act of losing half in one blow makes them VERY leery of simply spellslinging the really powerful ones.
Bomba 02-27-04, 01:17 PM	first i'm going to assume that the old gods are not completely dead (only mostly dead) cause they can still grant spells. so either they are slowly awakening or they are just imprisoned and have either found away to weaken whatever is holding them or the spells that have imprisoned them are degrading over time and they now can grant spells to the few worshipers that they have managed to gain. now for my ideas. 1st if you want things more powerful i would grant spells that have a lower level req. then the standard spells either one or 2 levels less. so for example a fireball would be a 2nd instead of third level spell. 2nd i would treat the spells as more of a ritual instead of somethign that takes only one round to cast. maybe 1 round per spell level. this would balence the higher power and also require the caster to have a bunch of minions to protect him either followers of the same god or maybe unturnable undead that he created prior to the battle. 3rd any effect that the spells create i would be harder to dispell kind of like shadow magic in FR raise the dispell check from 11 + caster level to something higher 15, 20 whatever you think is appropriate. 4th make the divine focus or the matirial component something extravagant. like a live 10' python. somethign the player would notice cause it is so different. or make a sacrifice necissary since the gods are still asleep and you need more then just your power to cast the spells they grant. 5th i would give the NPC spell casters a selection of normal spells and only throw in one of these as a surprise to keep them on thier toes or maybehave them witness the effect from a distance so they cant prevent the casting of the spell so they get an idea of what these casters can do. as far as the spells go themselves I'll try to think up some discriptions for some weird things. what are you looking for these spelsl to do? what are these "dead" god gods of? you can tailor the spells you give the NPCs based on what the gods do. have you looked in the book of vile darkness its got some great evil spells you could easily modify them to for a situation like this. thats all i can think of for right now i'm hung over and i need to get back to sleep if i think of anything else i'll post it later
bjorntfh 02-27-04, 01:24 PM	I always liked using the sanity system for every PC but Alienists. IMC Alienists don't have sanity scores, but automatically have certain derangements. Of course, if you're crazy enough to actually try to become a servitor of one of the Old Ones... you're pretty much nuts already aren't you? scrawls impossible symbols into the air drooling quietly Oh, huh? That, it's nothing.
Sondur Dragonbane 02-27-04, 01:37 PM	You could check out the Corrupt spells in the Book of Vile Darkness. They are more powerful than standard spells of the same levels but cause ability damage and/or drain from the caster. I have used a few spells from there to represent old magic in one of my camapigns.