and it all fell apart [Archive] - Wizards Community

and it all fell apart [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Super_Demolition_Christ
10-26-05, 09:45 PM sorry, this isnt another fun topic of an adventure that fell apart at the seems. You see, i've been working out a Brod Idea for a campain and working on it. I've got a generic idea for all the major NPCs and major conflicts(I usually think of an interesting side quest type adventure every two days, so I have plenty of room there) but I wanted to at least get the first few possible adventures down on paper (what the NPCs say, DCs and what not). Im going through the first real adventure plaining it. Trying to figure out how to set up the time table and tracking difficulty of this forest pursuit rescue mission. Suddenly I realize that I not guarenteed a ranger. I've set up a house rule where one's education can grant a bonus feat, track being possible. but Im not guarenteed a druid, expessially not a druid who takes up the that feild. I cant throw this mission away. It has an NPC i like who will come back at a significant time. perhaps two NPCs, or more. enough of the future of my campain to not consider scrapping it.

so my question is, how might a party at 2nd-3rd level without the track feet be able to hunt down a trio of drunk satyrs through the forest. I've got plans for how the part can catch up despite the fact the saytrs will be moving at 20ft per round and the party 10-5 ft per round. but thats if they are tracking them. The Saytrs arent just roaming around they have captured a springchild(halfnymph) and taking her into deep fey territory.
Vacerious
10-26-05, 09:51 PM interesting conundrum. :thinks:

how about this:

local merchants are aware and have seen the drunk satyrs carry the loverly maiden off into the woods, and a local druid/ranger who works as a trail guide can track the satyrs for a small price *edit* perhaps only a silver piece or two *edit*. The only thing required are a few Gather Information checks. The beauty of this idea is that, even if no one in your party has ranks in Gather Information, they can simply roll untrained Charisma checks.
UmbraLux
10-26-05, 10:54 PM Two methods come to mind:
1. Buy a trained dog.
2. Since the satyrs are drunk, make the trail obvious enough that no checks are required. In other words, a trail of discarded trash, urine, puke, and empty bottles.
Tiran
10-26-05, 11:16 PM Well, you could run the adventure regardless, and if the players are able to overcome it without the way you have set up to win it, they might deserve bonus XP.
sirfrancisdrake
10-26-05, 11:36 PM maybe the parents of the kid have some kind of help they can offer.

dad is a trained hunter, not a ranger but has the track ability and wants to help find the kid. Plus when the fight happens, trying to keep the dad alive could be fun too.

The dog was a good idea. a bloodhound, beagle or other hunting dog would have no problem tracking a bunch of **** drunk satyrs. Although your pc's might have trouble getting it to do what they want. could be fun.

invent a track potion(increases oflactory perception) that works for 4 hours or so, giving a time limit to track the things. Perhaps its not used for that sort of thing exactly(maybe it was made by the local alchemist as a special order for someone who has lost their sense of smell or something), and it makes the character dizzy and gives them a headache due to sensory overload. (-2 to all rolls) .

if they tangled with the satyrs before then once they quaffed the potion, they would recognize the scent easily, and would get the track ability, plus all sorts of bonuses to track the things.

Mike
Super_Demolition_Christ
10-26-05, 11:39 PM well, I am eager to see if they would be able to do this without tracking, though not as eager as I am to successfully do this mission with a perfect tracking...ness

>_>

and I guess I should have stated. or not....whatever. By "drunk" satyrs I mean that two of them (the third being a satyr who isnt very frat boyish) are getting drunk. I hope(d) for it to be a tracking fest that took 3-4 in game days. the first day they would fall behind. But since they do not know they are being followed, the saytrs take a few extra hours before their 8 hour march. by the third day two of them will be barely able to walk ( I guess puke and urine severely decreasing the track DC :rolleyes: ). with just a few points in dex, str, and wis (or whatever bloody stats are effected) they will end up oversleeping , so 12 hours of sleep and about 6 hours of being stupid and drunk. and this is when they catch up.

I guess, since the PCs trained for a few years in the acadamy near the forest I could allow Local and nature knoweldge checks to at least let them know which direction to go.

anyways, I guess the failure of this mission isnt to bad. I want this to be like a good movie, with extreme hilarity, extreme action, and extreme drama (XTREME!!). So basically this girl who got kidnapped has a belt of thundering chasity. an (unconfortable) enchanted...er... panteloon....>_> thing that shocks anyone trying to remove it. Having read Everworld I know how nasty Saytrs can be.

And I guess having to go deeper into fey territory would let me increase my fey usage.

oh well. I guess I just need any bonus info if anyone else has it. Like all DMs I guess I will have to wing it when things inevitably go to hell (preferably the drunk kind of hell)
Bringslite
10-27-05, 07:58 AM Being prepared is a sign that you are a hella good DM. One that puts in detailed preparation time is a joy to play with.

The only problem that I see: It sounds like your adventures/campaign is scripted. Extreme railroading is looking like the only way to insure that things go down the way you want.

Your PC's have already tripped you up by not making the expected characters. What do you think will happen when they start playing? Well, there is no way to know for sure. I can tell you this, they will most likely pursue the world/adventure in ways that you did not expect also. Some of the NPC's that you want them to converse with will be ignored. Others, who know nothing to advance the plot, will be spoken with at length. When you need them to chase X, they will chase Y.

I am not saying that preparation is bad. It is one factor that makes an OK session a great one! It is also a great way to make a truely lasting and fulfilling campaign. I am saying, use some of your prep time to ready for the unexpected and don't railroad them. This DM knows from long experience, as DM and Player, that railroading ruins fun and trashes campaigns faster than "sit in girlfriends/boyfriends" or PC infighting.

So, in short, you may be better off putting some of your effort into fleshing out your setting beyond your adventure. This way you will be ready when the PC's ignore your plot hook and head off in thier own direction.

Just my 2 c.p.. Good Luck.
a_psh
10-27-05, 08:11 AM I would throw in a dog to cover that contingency. If none of them have Handle Animal (likely), one can turn thiss into some fun with Charisma checks ("C'mon, boy! C'mon! Go get 'em! Please, please, please, go get 'em! They're running away! C'mon, boy! $%@# dog! Why won't you move? *cries*").

I had a PC with one rank in Handle Animal in a previous campaign. Whenever he wanted his mount (a clawfoot; Eberron) to do something, he'd basically have to stand there for two minutes and say the same word over and over and over again until it would obey him.
Chobemaster
10-27-05, 08:24 AM Props to thinking about whatifs and planning. Negaprops for railroading. Rather than figure out how you can ensure they track them, figure out what happens if they can't.
revnk
10-27-05, 10:48 AM As other posters have noted, you have to write this in a way that lets you handle the unexpected, and write it so that it's playable by any group of characters. For all you know, your players are going to want to all play bards who have formed a band that has adventures while it's on tour.

Possible solutions specific to your adventure include:

*Info from local NPCs;

*The presence of a local ranger or expert NPC who can show the party through the woods or otherwise help them;

*Prophetic dreams or visions that guide the party (e.g., one or more party members see the springchild appear on the path in front of them--"Hurry, I'm scared... they're taking me west but I don't know where"--when the PCs go to where she appeared, nothing is there);

*Incompetence by the satyrs to a degree that a blind city boy could track them unskilled ("It looks like a freight train has barrelled through the bushes and scrub, leaving empty wineskins and scat flung everywhere--the hardest part in following these things will be not stepping in something...");

*A guide animal, be it the dog suggested by another poster or a familiar (or pet) belonging to the abducted girl ("That bird is trying to tell us something... what, Timmy's in the well again?");

*A magic item that serves as a homing device: e.g., the springchild has a magical locket and her family has a magical necklace--2/day (at sunrise and sunset), one wearing the neckalce may say the Sylvan word for "wander" and the charm hanging from the necklace will float up and point in the exact direction of the locket (the springchild's family will gladly loan the necklace to anyone willing to rescue her);

*etc.

Any of these suggestions should be treated as food for thought: none of them might be appropriate, several in combination might work, one or more might work with tweaks (a wand instead of jewelry, a full-blown haunting by the ghost of the springchild's mother instead of a mere vision, etc.).

Last word: there is an old adage, "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Although PCs are not a DM's enemy, this is the first rule of DMing: players will always think of something you didn't, go where they weren't supposed to, take longer than you expected to get through one thing and then breeze through the encounter that was supposed to fill a sesson. If your adventure requires the players to play a certain class, use certain spells, call upon certain skills, posess a certain general item (like climber's tools or extra trail rations), then you need to go back to the drawing board. Either you need alternative plans/options in place, or you need to restructure things so that any character can handle a particular task.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Super_Demolition_Christ 10-26-05, 09:45 PM	sorry, this isnt another fun topic of an adventure that fell apart at the seems. You see, i've been working out a Brod Idea for a campain and working on it. I've got a generic idea for all the major NPCs and major conflicts(I usually think of an interesting side quest type adventure every two days, so I have plenty of room there) but I wanted to at least get the first few possible adventures down on paper (what the NPCs say, DCs and what not). Im going through the first real adventure plaining it. Trying to figure out how to set up the time table and tracking difficulty of this forest pursuit rescue mission. Suddenly I realize that I not guarenteed a ranger. I've set up a house rule where one's education can grant a bonus feat, track being possible. but Im not guarenteed a druid, expessially not a druid who takes up the that feild. I cant throw this mission away. It has an NPC i like who will come back at a significant time. perhaps two NPCs, or more. enough of the future of my campain to not consider scrapping it. so my question is, how might a party at 2nd-3rd level without the track feet be able to hunt down a trio of drunk satyrs through the forest. I've got plans for how the part can catch up despite the fact the saytrs will be moving at 20ft per round and the party 10-5 ft per round. but thats if they are tracking them. The Saytrs arent just roaming around they have captured a springchild(halfnymph) and taking her into deep fey territory.
Vacerious 10-26-05, 09:51 PM	interesting conundrum. :thinks: how about this: local merchants are aware and have seen the drunk satyrs carry the loverly maiden off into the woods, and a local druid/ranger who works as a trail guide can track the satyrs for a small price edit perhaps only a silver piece or two edit. The only thing required are a few Gather Information checks. The beauty of this idea is that, even if no one in your party has ranks in Gather Information, they can simply roll untrained Charisma checks.
UmbraLux 10-26-05, 10:54 PM	Two methods come to mind: 1. Buy a trained dog. 2. Since the satyrs are drunk, make the trail obvious enough that no checks are required. In other words, a trail of discarded trash, urine, puke, and empty bottles.
Tiran 10-26-05, 11:16 PM	Well, you could run the adventure regardless, and if the players are able to overcome it without the way you have set up to win it, they might deserve bonus XP.
sirfrancisdrake 10-26-05, 11:36 PM	maybe the parents of the kid have some kind of help they can offer. dad is a trained hunter, not a ranger but has the track ability and wants to help find the kid. Plus when the fight happens, trying to keep the dad alive could be fun too. The dog was a good idea. a bloodhound, beagle or other hunting dog would have no problem tracking a bunch of **** drunk satyrs. Although your pc's might have trouble getting it to do what they want. could be fun. invent a track potion(increases oflactory perception) that works for 4 hours or so, giving a time limit to track the things. Perhaps its not used for that sort of thing exactly(maybe it was made by the local alchemist as a special order for someone who has lost their sense of smell or something), and it makes the character dizzy and gives them a headache due to sensory overload. (-2 to all rolls) . if they tangled with the satyrs before then once they quaffed the potion, they would recognize the scent easily, and would get the track ability, plus all sorts of bonuses to track the things. Mike
Super_Demolition_Christ 10-26-05, 11:39 PM	well, I am eager to see if they would be able to do this without tracking, though not as eager as I am to successfully do this mission with a perfect tracking...ness >_> and I guess I should have stated. or not....whatever. By "drunk" satyrs I mean that two of them (the third being a satyr who isnt very frat boyish) are getting drunk. I hope(d) for it to be a tracking fest that took 3-4 in game days. the first day they would fall behind. But since they do not know they are being followed, the saytrs take a few extra hours before their 8 hour march. by the third day two of them will be barely able to walk ( I guess puke and urine severely decreasing the track DC :rolleyes: ). with just a few points in dex, str, and wis (or whatever bloody stats are effected) they will end up oversleeping , so 12 hours of sleep and about 6 hours of being stupid and drunk. and this is when they catch up. I guess, since the PCs trained for a few years in the acadamy near the forest I could allow Local and nature knoweldge checks to at least let them know which direction to go. anyways, I guess the failure of this mission isnt to bad. I want this to be like a good movie, with extreme hilarity, extreme action, and extreme drama (XTREME!!). So basically this girl who got kidnapped has a belt of thundering chasity. an (unconfortable) enchanted...er... panteloon....>_> thing that shocks anyone trying to remove it. Having read Everworld I know how nasty Saytrs can be. And I guess having to go deeper into fey territory would let me increase my fey usage. oh well. I guess I just need any bonus info if anyone else has it. Like all DMs I guess I will have to wing it when things inevitably go to hell (preferably the drunk kind of hell)
Bringslite 10-27-05, 07:58 AM	Being prepared is a sign that you are a hella good DM. One that puts in detailed preparation time is a joy to play with. The only problem that I see: It sounds like your adventures/campaign is scripted. Extreme railroading is looking like the only way to insure that things go down the way you want. Your PC's have already tripped you up by not making the expected characters. What do you think will happen when they start playing? Well, there is no way to know for sure. I can tell you this, they will most likely pursue the world/adventure in ways that you did not expect also. Some of the NPC's that you want them to converse with will be ignored. Others, who know nothing to advance the plot, will be spoken with at length. When you need them to chase X, they will chase Y. I am not saying that preparation is bad. It is one factor that makes an OK session a great one! It is also a great way to make a truely lasting and fulfilling campaign. I am saying, use some of your prep time to ready for the unexpected and don't railroad them. This DM knows from long experience, as DM and Player, that railroading ruins fun and trashes campaigns faster than "sit in girlfriends/boyfriends" or PC infighting. So, in short, you may be better off putting some of your effort into fleshing out your setting beyond your adventure. This way you will be ready when the PC's ignore your plot hook and head off in thier own direction. Just my 2 c.p.. Good Luck.
a_psh 10-27-05, 08:11 AM	I would throw in a dog to cover that contingency. If none of them have Handle Animal (likely), one can turn thiss into some fun with Charisma checks ("C'mon, boy! C'mon! Go get 'em! Please, please, please, go get 'em! They're running away! C'mon, boy! $%@# dog! Why won't you move? cries"). I had a PC with one rank in Handle Animal in a previous campaign. Whenever he wanted his mount (a clawfoot; Eberron) to do something, he'd basically have to stand there for two minutes and say the same word over and over and over again until it would obey him.
Chobemaster 10-27-05, 08:24 AM	Props to thinking about whatifs and planning. Negaprops for railroading. Rather than figure out how you can ensure they track them, figure out what happens if they can't.
revnk 10-27-05, 10:48 AM	As other posters have noted, you have to write this in a way that lets you handle the unexpected, and write it so that it's playable by any group of characters. For all you know, your players are going to want to all play bards who have formed a band that has adventures while it's on tour. Possible solutions specific to your adventure include: Info from local NPCs; The presence of a local ranger or expert NPC who can show the party through the woods or otherwise help them; Prophetic dreams or visions that guide the party (e.g., one or more party members see the springchild appear on the path in front of them--"Hurry, I'm scared... they're taking me west but I don't know where"--when the PCs go to where she appeared, nothing is there); Incompetence by the satyrs to a degree that a blind city boy could track them unskilled ("It looks like a freight train has barrelled through the bushes and scrub, leaving empty wineskins and scat flung everywhere--the hardest part in following these things will be not stepping in something..."); A guide animal, be it the dog suggested by another poster or a familiar (or pet) belonging to the abducted girl ("That bird is trying to tell us something... what, Timmy's in the well again?"); A magic item that serves as a homing device: e.g., the springchild has a magical locket and her family has a magical necklace--2/day (at sunrise and sunset), one wearing the neckalce may say the Sylvan word for "wander" and the charm hanging from the necklace will float up and point in the exact direction of the locket (the springchild's family will gladly loan the necklace to anyone willing to rescue her); *etc. Any of these suggestions should be treated as food for thought: none of them might be appropriate, several in combination might work, one or more might work with tweaks (a wand instead of jewelry, a full-blown haunting by the ghost of the springchild's mother instead of a mere vision, etc.). Last word: there is an old adage, "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Although PCs are not a DM's enemy, this is the first rule of DMing: players will always think of something you didn't, go where they weren't supposed to, take longer than you expected to get through one thing and then breeze through the encounter that was supposed to fill a sesson. If your adventure requires the players to play a certain class, use certain spells, call upon certain skills, posess a certain general item (like climber's tools or extra trail rations), then you need to go back to the drawing board. Either you need alternative plans/options in place, or you need to restructure things so that any character can handle a particular task. Hope this helps, and good luck!