"angry PC" problem, how to deal with it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

"angry PC" problem, how to deal with it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hfolkense
08-06-06, 03:17 AM OK, I have this friend that is really cool, and is always ready to play DnD with us and has been in all the campaigns. He is very predictable though and I think I should be ready to solve some issues in his playing.

His characteristics:
-Always an Elf
-Always a Ranger
-Always archer
-Always the same name
-Always the same backstory
-Always Neutral Good (ha!,we'll see how long that lasts)

I don't a have a problem with that, if he wants to make the most generic uber boring character of all, that's his decision and the other players will move on in much cooler PC's (dwarf rogue who has a drunk problem while stealing jewelery out of the local mine? hilarious!! You are in)

He is a little..."pedantic" let's say in the way he treates the NPC's. TO him, NPC's aren't people, but just plot points or ways to sell him stuff or win money.

Some examples of his weird playing:
-The PC's where in a roof and trying to get to another one, and there was some civilians at the starting roof. The owner of the Building puts his hand on the druid's shoulder and says "please, don't go it's too difficult". Ranger's Suggestion? "Give him an elbow blow to the teeth!"
-Guard "This site is forbidden thank you guys", ranger "Don't **** with me dude!"
-Guard "Don't talk like that boy, that's Unruly Behavior case", "hahaha! spits"
-Guard "Ok come with me", ranger starts running
-Calls other guards, they start doing nonlethal damage, he responds with his sword
-After hvaing them pinned down they take them to the local authority "you are effing little chicken" he says to him.

That was a really bad case years ago, and I thought it was ended when I just killed his character, but it's kind of happening again in my zombbieggedon campaign, just basically hating everyone. He is not an angry person, and is totally cool OOC, but when it comes to the game...hell comes lose sometimes.

I don't know what to do when more authority figures start appearing and I KNOW that he is going to start talking **** to them.

I've thought of:
-Changing his Alignment, done it, has zero repercusion, since it just fits his PC better
-Killing his PC, all his next PC's are just as angry persons as the last (and elfy and rangy and NG'y)
-Talking to him about it. Maybe I am silly and haven't tried this, thinking a simple threat from a major war hero would be enough but it isn't. Maybe telling him to start acting like a HERO that he claims his character is in all his backstorys will do something.
-Talking to the other players in privatly to kindly discourage him from doing things that will affect the whole party.
-Urging him to try another race/class for the sakeness of a different roleplay experience, maybe something alien will make him think about roleplaying more.
-Just plain not inviting him, which I would really suffer and only do if the sessions where unbearable which are not.

To tell you the truth, there is no problem now aside from the hit-the-owner-in-the-mouth commentary that sent off a warning, just a growing worry of how to attend that issue if, as levels escalate, the problems get bigger.
Asciiman
08-06-06, 05:01 AM Either you'll do something or you won't. Nothing else needs to be said in this issue. You already know you have to confront him about it, so grow a pair and go do it.
Jutter
08-06-06, 05:36 AM Well, best thing to do is go talk to him. If this doesn't work, it might help if you let your NPC's have a real-world response. In your given examples:

-The PC's where in a roof and trying to get to another one, and there was some civilians at the starting roof. The owner of the Building puts his hand on the druid's shoulder and says "please, don't go it's too difficult". Ranger's Suggestion? "Give him an elbow blow to the teeth!"

The NPC either pushes him of the roof or warns the guard (depending on NPC's alignment)

-Guard "This site is forbidden thank you guys", ranger "Don't **** with me dude!"

Guard draws a sword and calls for backup. PC gets one last chance to back off or will be arrested or get killed.

-Guard "Don't talk like that boy, that's Unruly Behavior case", "hahaha! spits"

Guard draws a sword and calls for backup. PC gets one last chance to shut up or will be arrested or get killed.

-Guard "Ok come with me", ranger starts running

In case of an arrest: Ranger's ID spreads fast throughout town. Large portions of the guard will be chasing him. In case of a plot-hook: let the other PC's take care of it. He won't be in this adventure, since he ran off.

-Calls other guards, they start doing nonlethal damage, he responds with his sword.

The guards draw swords and dispose of the PC as fast as possible. No cop-killers in their town.

-After hvaing them pinned down they take them to the local authority "you are effing little chicken" he says to him.

PC gets sentensed, probably some jailtime, maybe worse (in case of LE authority). In the latter, regeneration of resurrection spells might be in order.

In a nutshell: PC's have the right to do and try anything they want. The response of the world around them (which means, the world the DM controls) should be a logical response to their actions. If this doesn't suit the player, it is the player's responsibility to change his PC's course of action.
Untamed_Soul
08-06-06, 06:03 AM Yes you do have a touchy problem and I sympthathize with your predictament as it is your friend and you don't want to cause problems outside of the game. Here is a few solutions that I have found that work with such players (in game), and hopefully they can in your campaign.

Don't kill his character... this amazing backstory he comes up with should lend some good stories going around, when he acts out like this let him get away with it a few times (with reasonable suspension of disbelief) then once he is to be "dealt" with, have him imprisoned. Roleplay out a long dungeon sentence followed by a shackled escorted walk to the magistrate to evaulate him. Then have him led back. Followed by a couple session later roleplaying experience in the dungeon. Make escape attempts possible, but with high DCs, with only added higher DCs after his first failed attempt (as the guard is now watching him closer)

Meanwhile, in the same sessions as all of this, make sure you throw in some reaaaaaaaally cool scenes for the other players, "Wow guys that was a greaaaaaaat combat! Good job!!!" award out xps to the players that were involved in the uber great roleplaying experience, and explain to him that he is still waiting to hear word back from the magistrate... obviously it will take a while since his criminal record is being weighed against his previous heroic deeds but it isn't looking good for him.

I'm not saying make him feel miserable, but make him roleplay out "boredom". I allow my players to do whatever they want, but I react realistically. I have had players who have got caught, expected to be executed and instead they were traded off over seas as slaves. Nothing is more degrading than not being able to control your destiny, taking away that freedom makes such behavior less habitual.

If you do execute such a technique upon him, and he gets angry OOC over it, explain to him that you are only doing your job as a DM to provide a realistic world/story and reacting accordingly to his character's behavior.

Another suggestion I can give is- Tailor your Campaign to your players. Being a DM, sometimes we forget we are playing with others and we get an idea in our heads that sounds great so we create a story for it, then we model it into an adventure, then we put our players through it only to have them rip through it and tear it to shreds. To avoid this, allow them to create their own campaign. If he enjoys bullying guards/npcs, as well does some of the other players, suggest an evil campaign. Run them through assassin missions, robberies and heists, have them be hired out by a powerful wizard to kidnap and bring back alive the princess and such. Again, you can make this fun for you without it just being an evil evil kill kill session, but make sure it's the majority that enjoys this flavor of gaming.

Hope some of this helps, and good luck.
coolmantheboom
08-06-06, 07:01 AM the guy who posted before me hit the nail on the head, i play in a group of about 8-12 people, and the dm is absoutly amazing about stuff like that, we are all lvl 21 so what our dm dose is, he lets us do whatever we want, if its doable, such as, any of us being epic characters can kill whatever towns people we want, but he always has checks and blanances, like we are all lvl 21 so the npc who is leading our group is lvl 44 to keep us in check, in the town we are in, we can kill mostly anyone but he has about 7 people in the town who are atleast lvl 40+ to keep us in line. and even then, and those circumstances sometimes we still screw up, beacuse he gives us so much freedom, we had a town we where suppose to go and help, but we waited two days before we left, so the consiquences of that, wasent us dieing or being put in jail or being hunted, the consiquences of it was we lost the battle terribly. a battle that could have been won had we left to go to it elier...
DIESCUMDIE
08-06-06, 07:11 AM If the character isn't too detrimental to the game let it be
Otherwise when he does it just put your books down, stop and say you cant continue until he changes. Explain it damages the game for everyone and you don't have to bother. If he does it again just stop the game and dont play again till next session.
kelvinaw273
08-06-06, 08:26 AM Find another player willing to do the same gritty anti-hero style angry character but BETTER and more realistically. Then show this player how it is really done.
LivingShadow
08-06-06, 12:53 PM or possibly when he does it again make it an Uber that he messes with and knock him down a few notches
pres_man
08-06-06, 01:35 PM Having consequences that effect him does not seem to be effective, not that you should stop them. Yet remember this is a group game. If one member of the party is acting in an irrationally way it is very likely that the entire group is going to get the consequences of those actions. Punch a guy in the face, the entire party gets arrested. Attack and kill city guards doing their job the entire party gets jailed and/or hung. As long as the party is condoning these actions (traveling with this guy, fighting along side of him) they are partially responsible for his actions.

Eventually, hopefully, they will stop allowing irrational characters into the party.
DM: Well after that last situation and the death of Elfy and the fines the party had to pay, realize you still need a bit more help. At the local tavern, you meet ...
Problem Player: An elf ranger named Elfy! Hey, guys what are we doing?
Party: *looks at each other* We're sorry, we've had bad experiences with elf rangers, especially those named Elfy. We are looking for someone else, good day.
Problem Player: WTF! I can play any character I want!
DM: That is true, but that does not mean the rest of the group has to play with that character. Maybe Elfy should stay at home and only be played when you are DMing yourself.
Atirakis
08-06-06, 03:48 PM or possibly when he does it again make it an Uber that he messes with and knock him down a few notches
Knock his ego down a few notches by making it a mob of level 1 warrior kobolds, give them all feats for grappling and give the leader a few levels in fighter with a trip weapon and all the trip feats you can get. After he has been humiliated allow the rest of the party to catch up and together they mop the floor with the kobolds.
After the session explain to him that trying to take on the world isnt wise if you cant even take on a few kobolds...
Ariman
08-06-06, 03:51 PM sounds like a head srong player not good for games thqt have unswayn plots but for a game thqt u kinda let the players go and do what they want. he would surly come out to be the leader. player are usually very eager to solvde the puzzle, kill the monster and find the treasure. But if he is messn it up for the other pcs do what i do let them deal with him in game player can be way more cruel then the dm
Atirakis
08-06-06, 04:31 PM English Man! E N G L I S H!!
Zheon
08-06-06, 04:51 PM I say have someone cast enervation on him or something, fudge all the rolls, make him lose 4 levels, and fail all his saves. He's four levels lower than the rest of the party. That should be torture enough. If he asks to retire his character and make a new one, tell him that he cant make the same character. Then you've solved one problem. Tell him you had him four levels lower because he roleplayed like crap. That might fix another one.
Zheon
08-06-06, 04:55 PM DM: Well after that last situation and the death of Elfy and the fines the party had to pay, realize you still need a bit more help. At the local tavern, you meet ...
Problem Player: An elf ranger named Elfy! Hey, guys what are we doing?
Party: *looks at each other* We're sorry, we've had bad experiences with elf rangers, especially those named Elfy. We are looking for someone else, good day.
Problem Player: WTF! I can play any character I want!
DM: That is true, but that does not mean the rest of the group has to play with that character. Maybe Elfy should stay at home and only be played when you are DMing yourself.

:heehee :rofl: .. nice man.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hfolkense 08-06-06, 03:17 AM	OK, I have this friend that is really cool, and is always ready to play DnD with us and has been in all the campaigns. He is very predictable though and I think I should be ready to solve some issues in his playing. His characteristics: -Always an Elf -Always a Ranger -Always archer -Always the same name -Always the same backstory -Always Neutral Good (ha!,we'll see how long that lasts) I don't a have a problem with that, if he wants to make the most generic uber boring character of all, that's his decision and the other players will move on in much cooler PC's (dwarf rogue who has a drunk problem while stealing jewelery out of the local mine? hilarious!! You are in) He is a little..."pedantic" let's say in the way he treates the NPC's. TO him, NPC's aren't people, but just plot points or ways to sell him stuff or win money. Some examples of his weird playing: -The PC's where in a roof and trying to get to another one, and there was some civilians at the starting roof. The owner of the Building puts his hand on the druid's shoulder and says "please, don't go it's too difficult". Ranger's Suggestion? "Give him an elbow blow to the teeth!" -Guard "This site is forbidden thank you guys", ranger "Don't ** with me dude!" -Guard "Don't talk like that boy, that's Unruly Behavior case", "hahaha! spits" -Guard "Ok come with me", ranger starts running -Calls other guards, they start doing nonlethal damage, he responds with his sword -After hvaing them pinned down they take them to the local authority "you are effing little chicken" he says to him. That was a really bad case years ago, and I thought it was ended when I just killed his character, but it's kind of happening again in my zombbieggedon campaign, just basically hating everyone. He is not an angry person, and is totally cool OOC, but when it comes to the game...hell comes lose sometimes. I don't know what to do when more authority figures start appearing and I KNOW that he is going to start talking ** to them. I've thought of: -Changing his Alignment, done it, has zero repercusion, since it just fits his PC better -Killing his PC, all his next PC's are just as angry persons as the last (and elfy and rangy and NG'y) -Talking to him about it. Maybe I am silly and haven't tried this, thinking a simple threat from a major war hero would be enough but it isn't. Maybe telling him to start acting like a HERO that he claims his character is in all his backstorys will do something. -Talking to the other players in privatly to kindly discourage him from doing things that will affect the whole party. -Urging him to try another race/class for the sakeness of a different roleplay experience, maybe something alien will make him think about roleplaying more. -Just plain not inviting him, which I would really suffer and only do if the sessions where unbearable which are not. To tell you the truth, there is no problem now aside from the hit-the-owner-in-the-mouth commentary that sent off a warning, just a growing worry of how to attend that issue if, as levels escalate, the problems get bigger.
Asciiman 08-06-06, 05:01 AM	Either you'll do something or you won't. Nothing else needs to be said in this issue. You already know you have to confront him about it, so grow a pair and go do it.
Jutter 08-06-06, 05:36 AM	Well, best thing to do is go talk to him. If this doesn't work, it might help if you let your NPC's have a real-world response. In your given examples: -The PC's where in a roof and trying to get to another one, and there was some civilians at the starting roof. The owner of the Building puts his hand on the druid's shoulder and says "please, don't go it's too difficult". Ranger's Suggestion? "Give him an elbow blow to the teeth!" The NPC either pushes him of the roof or warns the guard (depending on NPC's alignment) -Guard "This site is forbidden thank you guys", ranger "Don't **** with me dude!" Guard draws a sword and calls for backup. PC gets one last chance to back off or will be arrested or get killed. -Guard "Don't talk like that boy, that's Unruly Behavior case", "hahaha! spits" Guard draws a sword and calls for backup. PC gets one last chance to shut up or will be arrested or get killed. -Guard "Ok come with me", ranger starts running In case of an arrest: Ranger's ID spreads fast throughout town. Large portions of the guard will be chasing him. In case of a plot-hook: let the other PC's take care of it. He won't be in this adventure, since he ran off. -Calls other guards, they start doing nonlethal damage, he responds with his sword. The guards draw swords and dispose of the PC as fast as possible. No cop-killers in their town. -After hvaing them pinned down they take them to the local authority "you are effing little chicken" he says to him. PC gets sentensed, probably some jailtime, maybe worse (in case of LE authority). In the latter, regeneration of resurrection spells might be in order. In a nutshell: PC's have the right to do and try anything they want. The response of the world around them (which means, the world the DM controls) should be a logical response to their actions. If this doesn't suit the player, it is the player's responsibility to change his PC's course of action.
Untamed_Soul 08-06-06, 06:03 AM	Yes you do have a touchy problem and I sympthathize with your predictament as it is your friend and you don't want to cause problems outside of the game. Here is a few solutions that I have found that work with such players (in game), and hopefully they can in your campaign. Don't kill his character... this amazing backstory he comes up with should lend some good stories going around, when he acts out like this let him get away with it a few times (with reasonable suspension of disbelief) then once he is to be "dealt" with, have him imprisoned. Roleplay out a long dungeon sentence followed by a shackled escorted walk to the magistrate to evaulate him. Then have him led back. Followed by a couple session later roleplaying experience in the dungeon. Make escape attempts possible, but with high DCs, with only added higher DCs after his first failed attempt (as the guard is now watching him closer) Meanwhile, in the same sessions as all of this, make sure you throw in some reaaaaaaaally cool scenes for the other players, "Wow guys that was a greaaaaaaat combat! Good job!!!" award out xps to the players that were involved in the uber great roleplaying experience, and explain to him that he is still waiting to hear word back from the magistrate... obviously it will take a while since his criminal record is being weighed against his previous heroic deeds but it isn't looking good for him. I'm not saying make him feel miserable, but make him roleplay out "boredom". I allow my players to do whatever they want, but I react realistically. I have had players who have got caught, expected to be executed and instead they were traded off over seas as slaves. Nothing is more degrading than not being able to control your destiny, taking away that freedom makes such behavior less habitual. If you do execute such a technique upon him, and he gets angry OOC over it, explain to him that you are only doing your job as a DM to provide a realistic world/story and reacting accordingly to his character's behavior. Another suggestion I can give is- Tailor your Campaign to your players. Being a DM, sometimes we forget we are playing with others and we get an idea in our heads that sounds great so we create a story for it, then we model it into an adventure, then we put our players through it only to have them rip through it and tear it to shreds. To avoid this, allow them to create their own campaign. If he enjoys bullying guards/npcs, as well does some of the other players, suggest an evil campaign. Run them through assassin missions, robberies and heists, have them be hired out by a powerful wizard to kidnap and bring back alive the princess and such. Again, you can make this fun for you without it just being an evil evil kill kill session, but make sure it's the majority that enjoys this flavor of gaming. Hope some of this helps, and good luck.
coolmantheboom 08-06-06, 07:01 AM	the guy who posted before me hit the nail on the head, i play in a group of about 8-12 people, and the dm is absoutly amazing about stuff like that, we are all lvl 21 so what our dm dose is, he lets us do whatever we want, if its doable, such as, any of us being epic characters can kill whatever towns people we want, but he always has checks and blanances, like we are all lvl 21 so the npc who is leading our group is lvl 44 to keep us in check, in the town we are in, we can kill mostly anyone but he has about 7 people in the town who are atleast lvl 40+ to keep us in line. and even then, and those circumstances sometimes we still screw up, beacuse he gives us so much freedom, we had a town we where suppose to go and help, but we waited two days before we left, so the consiquences of that, wasent us dieing or being put in jail or being hunted, the consiquences of it was we lost the battle terribly. a battle that could have been won had we left to go to it elier...
DIESCUMDIE 08-06-06, 07:11 AM	If the character isn't too detrimental to the game let it be Otherwise when he does it just put your books down, stop and say you cant continue until he changes. Explain it damages the game for everyone and you don't have to bother. If he does it again just stop the game and dont play again till next session.
kelvinaw273 08-06-06, 08:26 AM	Find another player willing to do the same gritty anti-hero style angry character but BETTER and more realistically. Then show this player how it is really done.
LivingShadow 08-06-06, 12:53 PM	or possibly when he does it again make it an Uber that he messes with and knock him down a few notches
pres_man 08-06-06, 01:35 PM	Having consequences that effect him does not seem to be effective, not that you should stop them. Yet remember this is a group game. If one member of the party is acting in an irrationally way it is very likely that the entire group is going to get the consequences of those actions. Punch a guy in the face, the entire party gets arrested. Attack and kill city guards doing their job the entire party gets jailed and/or hung. As long as the party is condoning these actions (traveling with this guy, fighting along side of him) they are partially responsible for his actions. Eventually, hopefully, they will stop allowing irrational characters into the party. DM: Well after that last situation and the death of Elfy and the fines the party had to pay, realize you still need a bit more help. At the local tavern, you meet ... Problem Player: An elf ranger named Elfy! Hey, guys what are we doing? Party: looks at each other We're sorry, we've had bad experiences with elf rangers, especially those named Elfy. We are looking for someone else, good day. Problem Player: WTF! I can play any character I want! DM: That is true, but that does not mean the rest of the group has to play with that character. Maybe Elfy should stay at home and only be played when you are DMing yourself.
Atirakis 08-06-06, 03:48 PM	or possibly when he does it again make it an Uber that he messes with and knock him down a few notches Knock his ego down a few notches by making it a mob of level 1 warrior kobolds, give them all feats for grappling and give the leader a few levels in fighter with a trip weapon and all the trip feats you can get. After he has been humiliated allow the rest of the party to catch up and together they mop the floor with the kobolds. After the session explain to him that trying to take on the world isnt wise if you cant even take on a few kobolds...
Ariman 08-06-06, 03:51 PM	sounds like a head srong player not good for games thqt have unswayn plots but for a game thqt u kinda let the players go and do what they want. he would surly come out to be the leader. player are usually very eager to solvde the puzzle, kill the monster and find the treasure. But if he is messn it up for the other pcs do what i do let them deal with him in game player can be way more cruel then the dm
Atirakis 08-06-06, 04:31 PM	English Man! E N G L I S H!!
Zheon 08-06-06, 04:51 PM	I say have someone cast enervation on him or something, fudge all the rolls, make him lose 4 levels, and fail all his saves. He's four levels lower than the rest of the party. That should be torture enough. If he asks to retire his character and make a new one, tell him that he cant make the same character. Then you've solved one problem. Tell him you had him four levels lower because he roleplayed like crap. That might fix another one.
Zheon 08-06-06, 04:55 PM	DM: Well after that last situation and the death of Elfy and the fines the party had to pay, realize you still need a bit more help. At the local tavern, you meet ... Problem Player: An elf ranger named Elfy! Hey, guys what are we doing? Party: looks at each other We're sorry, we've had bad experiences with elf rangers, especially those named Elfy. We are looking for someone else, good day. Problem Player: WTF! I can play any character I want! DM: That is true, but that does not mean the rest of the group has to play with that character. Maybe Elfy should stay at home and only be played when you are DMing yourself. :heehee :rofl: .. nice man.