Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DonGnocci 01-14-06, 08:54 PM	Hi! I'd like to know which "applicable modifier(s)" from the table for bluff I have to use if a rogue/whatever wants to feint in combat successfully, rather use bluff for feinting in combat. -5 ; 0; +5 or even +10 or even +20 for the sense motive check of the one who gets bluffed via feint?
ressurrector 01-14-06, 09:52 PM	bluff check (ranks, all bonuses, attribute) vs. Sense motive+bab (bab+ranks+wis+modifiers)
DonGnocci 01-14-06, 10:11 PM	Resurrector, sit down, and score an F! I know how to do it, but i don't know which bonus to use from the table that's been given with the skill description. OMFG... sometimes i don't get it how... strange some people can interpret even SIMPLE questions. *rant*
Father Tim 01-15-06, 12:23 AM	it really depends on what the bluffing character says in relation to what's happening in the fight. Round 1: Hey look, your shoelaces are untied! (+0, not very original) Round 2: Hey look, your shoelaces are untied! (-5, assuming the mob fell for it the first time) Round 3: Hey look, my barbarian friend with the greataxe is right behind you! (+0, again pretty standard) Round 4: Hey look, all your friends are running away! (+5, because it's true) Round 5: Hey look, all your friends are sailing away on their boat and leaving you to die. (+10, because it's true and somewhat expected by the poor victim) Round 6: I surrender (+20 because his friends' boat just took to the air and flew overhead, raining down 300 Goblin sky marines on ropes to surround your group and you dropped your weapon while using Sleight of Hand to palm a dagger)
Father Dale 01-16-06, 10:49 AM	I don't think any of the modifiers on that table would apply to Feinting in combat. Those modifiers are for convincing someone to do or believe something. That not what Feinting is. Think of Feinting as a basketball player starting to go one direction then quickly shifting to another direction, and his opponenet falling for it and going the wrong way. That is what happens when a character Feints in combat. He shows that he is attacking one point then quickly switches to attack a different point. The target of the bluff is caught off guard and can't properly defend against the real attack, having defended against the fake attack. Thus, the only modifiers to realy apply are the ones based on creature type. Against a nonhumanoid the Feinter takes a -4 penalty. Against creatures with only 1 or 2 INT (animals mostly) he takes a -8 penalty. Agaisnt creatures with no INT his feinting has no affect. If you look at the other options available under Bluff, there is the Deliver a Secret Message action. It would make no sense to apply the modifiers on the table to that action either, as you are not trying to convince the recipient of the message to do or believe something by trying to make your communication unnoticeable to others.
ressurrector 01-16-06, 12:14 PM	Right, fainting in combat isn't necessarily speech. It's more of misdirecting someones defenses with a feint, a fake strike. The modifiers for believability have no pertinence in this usage of the bluff skill.
DonGnocci 02-16-06, 05:11 PM	But where is an official statement that undermines this assumption? I need help...
Elendur 02-16-06, 06:08 PM	The table lists example circumstances. Modifiers specific to feinting are listed in that section. A common sense reading of the text suggests that the example circumstances don't apply to feinting. However, as DM you are free to use whatever circumstance modifiers you want. I'm personally having a hard time coming up with any that would apply. Perhaps someone with concealment relative to the target, or under the effect of mirror image, might have some bonus to feint?
Galentir 02-16-06, 06:17 PM	Resurrector, sit down, and score an F! I know how to do it, but i don't know which bonus to use from the table that's been given with the skill description. OMFG... sometimes i don't get it how... strange some people can interpret even SIMPLE questions. *rant* Look. Maybe if you'd phrased it a little better, he wouldn't have made that mistake. It took me about 6 or 7 times reading your post to understood what it meant. Chill a little, man.