Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kalidor 12-24-03, 01:37 AM	Even though I have one player who has pretty much all but derailed the current campaign because it doesn't revolve around him... (another rant entirely), the last thing I did was introduce the players to the BBEG face to face after months of building up. It was a very good meeting. The characters were without spells, strapped to tables and under the complete control of the BBEG. The BBEG left them alone and using Feat Of Strength, the Cleric busted his bonds and they all escaped. This saved me a lot of trouble in finding some way to free them... The problem is, while they BBEG was gloating over them, he'd actually introduced his 'loyal lacky and servant' to try to bust the moral of the Cleric. This NPC has been helping run a 'mission' in the dirty part of a large town for some time, acting as the Cleric's personal friend and assistant during all this time. He was loyal, respectful and had his trust completely. Well, part of the backstory is that the assistant's sister had been selected as a future bride for the BBEG. Elric (the assistant) though it was a good idea to send his little sister off to spy on the Emporer (The BBEG) because he was suspected as being an "evil force" as described by visions from Pelor. Well, he did this without consulting Thurisaz (the cleric). When he hadn't heard from his sister in some time, he went off to find her in the Forbidden City (The capital). He did this while the group was off on another mission to find the location on a map that the BBEG's minions stole. They wanted to know what he was after. Well, little do the players know, Elric went off on his own to find his sister and got captured. The BBEG learned from various mind reading techniques and charms available to him what he was doing there, and further still, that someone was trying to spy on his activity. This angered the BBEG and he used dominated Elric and made him his loyal servant. BBEG met the group at the 'dungeon site' and, as I mentioned, to break their moral, showed them how Elric was his loyal servant, as would they all become. Well, sadly, the player doesn't have the same Wisdom score as the cleric he potrays. He has it in his head that Elric has been a spy this entire time and practically hates him for betraying him. I tried to drop a few hints that he's acting rashly, but I don't want to give too much away. I'm sure when the time comes, I can find a way to fix it -- but I'd hate for Thurisaz to hold a grudge over someone who really did consider him a dear friend before having his mind taken over by a W20/Archmage5 Immortal Goa'uld BBEG... Anyone else have any instances where the players got the totally wrong idea about something in the story and you actually felt sorry for the characters involved?
Arilou_skiff 12-24-03, 04:29 AM	Actually you should let it play out. This is just perfect dramatic opportunity, better yet, have him actually *kill* the "traitor" and then have the BBEG explain the truth to him while cackling madly! Then see how the cleric deals with that :D
Kalidor 12-24-03, 04:41 AM	Not a bad idea. I'm fearful that this other player may cause us to abandon this campaign :( I think I need to put up a timeline on my website and maybe detail all the events thus far.
XIII 12-24-03, 08:04 AM	If the cleric is good, and he kill his friend because he think him a spy, let is god strip it oof its power until atonement spell =) that should put some brain into it! XIII
Arilou_skiff 12-24-03, 01:48 PM	Originally posted by Kalidor Not a bad idea. I'm fearful that this other player may cause us to abandon this campaign :( I think I need to put up a timeline on my website and maybe detail all the events thus far. I feel your pain, we all know how that feels... But I'd LOVE if one or more of my PC's did anything like that :D
Lord_Apollyon 12-24-03, 02:33 PM	If the cleric doesn't know, and his wis isn't that high, then his killing of the 'traitor' isn't truly evil. It's just a secret that he wasn't supposed to know. Whereas, if the player is just an idiot, then yeah, he needs to atone if he kills the traitor.
Raist27m 12-24-03, 02:50 PM	This sounds like your player is doing the right thing to me. He has NO way of knowing what's going on unless you give significant clues somehow.
Kalidor 12-24-03, 03:22 PM	Yeah. I guess sometimes we take for granted what is 'common knowledge' and what is learned. The player isn't stupid at all, he's just prone to make snap judgements. The problem is, I feel his CHARACTER would know better, with a 20 wisdom than my friend the player, who's wisdom is probably 8 :p
scott644 12-24-03, 03:25 PM	Heh - this kind of thing goes on all the time in my gaming group. The real kicker is we've got some really talented role-players and sometimes when the player knows but the character shouldn't, the player goes that route just to make it more in-character and realistic. End result, we've always got the group that's not always eye-to-eye in how they see things, but somehow finds a way to survive (and occasionally even succeed).
Kalidor 12-24-03, 03:28 PM	Hey Scott, I notice you're in Lexington. I'm in Louisville :embarrass
E-Vile 12-24-03, 05:39 PM	Frankly it's impossible for a player to roleplay higher mental stats then he would have in real life. He or she just wouldn't be able to make the same deductions and conclusions. A great example of this is when in our epic campaign our party asked a NPC to planeshift us to a demiplane but forgot to make sure we could shift back, trapping us on a small demiplane. And we had a int 30ish rogue and a wis 35 monk in the party. If he makes a rash decision you shouldn't punish him for that, actually I would reward him for it, he is furious and hurt about the treachery of one of his best friends, he is totally in character.
Blibdoolpoolp 12-24-03, 07:35 PM	Perhaps, if one wished to help things seem clear, one would permit a... oh, say... wisdom check, with a success indicating that the character "Really feels that he knew [the traitor] better than that and that something must have happened to him." Or something along those lines.... Nothing we have seen causes us to believe that there is some discipling to do to your player....
Wizard 12-24-03, 08:31 PM	Of course, for all the player knows, he failed the check miserably, and the DM's feeding him crap.
Kalidor 12-24-03, 08:34 PM	Nothing we have seen causes us to believe that there is some discipling to do to your player.. Nor should it have appeared that that was ever my intention.
Dungeon_Master 12-24-03, 08:43 PM	If he was whining about not being the campaigns center of attention..... Well, that'd be enough to get a reprimand in my group. And it's gotten it multiple times.
Lord_Naerik 12-24-03, 09:56 PM	Hey Kalidor We are in Louisville too :)
scott644 12-24-03, 11:19 PM	LExington and Louisville. Oh joy! Anybody up for a D&D deathmatch? We can time it for this Saturday the 27th at 5pm - right next to the TV. :D Actually, there's a good chance you know some friends of mine; Terri, Colin, Thomas - sound familiar? They're some of the folks I was referring to above.
Schmendrick 12-25-03, 12:41 AM	Originally posted by Wizard Of course, for all the player knows, he failed the check miserably, and the DM's feeding him crap. Talk about reverse discrimination... there ya go, folks: reverse metagaming. That's so sad, it's funny...
Blibdoolpoolp 12-25-03, 01:40 AM	Originally posted by Wizard Of course, for all the player knows, he failed the check miserably, and the DM's feeding him crap. True, then again, anything the DM says may be 'crap'. This would at least provide the DM a chance to manipulate the perceptions of his NPC the way he wishes.... For our own experiences, for it seems the true nature of the posed question was to gather similar experiences - one of our players tends to jump wildly to precisely the right conclusions... though her fellow players are quick to point out that she has no reason for having such ideas, in game or out, and, as such, her ideas are quickly dismissed.
xect 12-25-03, 01:30 PM	Originally posted by XIII If the cleric is good, and he kill his friend because he think him a spy, let is god strip it oof its power until atonement spell =) that should put some brain into it! XIII I wouldn't punish a good character for doing what he thinks is good. That being said, the DM should compensate for the players lack of wis if the character has more wisdom. After all, it's damn hard to live up to an 18-wis cleric.