Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LurkeroftheUnderworld 07-11-06, 10:16 PM	I have a group of 5~6 PC's who are all new to D&D and playing 3rd level characters. They recently finished the little pick-up adventure I made to help them to get a feel for the game. After they defeated the boss, I asked them what they wanted to do, giving them several basic choices: Save the world, destroy it, a sandbox type thing, or just dungeon crawling around for phat lewt. After some discussion, they decided to become pirates, a far fetched idea, considering they live fairly far inland and have no abilities to help them with water related hazards. Another regretfully well-received idea was to overthrow the established monarch of the area. How does a stark, raving lawful DM like me put up with a bunch of chaotic stupid PC's? Do I give them what they want? How would I execute either option? The party consists of CN human rogue, CG dwarven fighter, CN thri-kreen barbarian (his eyes did glitter when he saw the 'cricket'), C(something) snow elven fighter/rogue, CN sun elven wizard, CN human duskblade. Only the snow elf PC has past experiences with D&D. The campaign setting is homebrewed, not a very detailed background yet. Areas adjacent to their present location, a human kingdom in a large valley, include: a Dwarven mountain kindom, elven forest civilisation, small goblin empire near the dwarves, and, across a sea similar to the Mediterranean, a struggling Magocratic nation. Thanks in advance for any responses.
DarkNick 07-11-06, 10:26 PM	Sounds absolutely fantastic. Give them what they want. Put them at sea. It will make for some interesting adventuring. Have them travel to the sea, try and get enough gold to buy a boat or join on with a pirate crew. Eventually they can start a mutinee or become tough enough to beat the captain, or simply after a big battle all the pirate leaders are dead and the crew vote them to be in charge. Let them try and work out how to do it. They might randomly become rowboat pirates to start with and work their way up. The established monarch is obviously not going to like them - hence there will be pirate hunters to deal with, The party could try and amalgmate all the pirates under their leadership and attack the monarch direct. There could be adventures around kidnapping the monarchs daughter, cutting off trade, finding lost treasure to pay off one of the pirate lords or build a fleet, buy a crew, influencing the land lubbers, cursed gold, raiding villages, etc.. Sounds cool.
Xzamuel 07-11-06, 10:58 PM	There's a 2e Forgotten Realms sourcebook called 'Pirates of the Fallen Stars'. While you're running homebrew and most probably 3e, it's still a really good book for various ideas/mechanics (most of which are easy to translate into 3e) including ship to ship combat, boarding, etc. which you will likely find very useful, so I'd recommend picking it up.
Cthulhu-LQ 07-12-06, 09:31 AM	Do they want to be real pirates, the aggressive kind who pillage ships and coastal villages? With a Good character in the party, probably not. There are other variations. Like being Privateers : they work for a kingdom who gives them aothorization to prey upon the ships of a rival kingdom. They have safe haven inside the kindgom who hires them, and they keep a share of the loot they get. Or smugglers. They may work for themselves, or be part of a bigger organisation. And to give them a boat, you can use the adventure "wreck ashore" which can be downloaded from WotC site. It's a short lvl1 adventure but can easily be upgraded for any party level. Basically, a group a pirates tried a new approch : there is a town with a tricky approch due to reefs, so there is a lighthouse to guide ships in. The pirates killed the lighthouse keepers and built a false one, so merchant ships wreck when going in town, and the pirates easily take the loot. But add something to the end. The PCs overhear the pirates talking about their boat which will arrive soon to take them and the loot that has been collected. So if they act correctly the PCs can get this boat, and they will alredy have a nice loot ready to be sold! A good start for being pirates, smugglers, or protectors of coastal towns from big bad evil pirates!
MarkB 07-12-06, 09:57 AM	Let them start conspiring to overthrow the current king, even put them in contact with an established resistance group of like-minded individuals. Then have that group taken down by the kingdom's police forces, who have been investigating it for months, with the PCs caught in the middle. All conspirators are sentenced to exile, on a faraway island, and are promptly put aboard ship for transportation. Halfway there, the ship is hit by some misfortune (storm, plague, even pirates) that leaves over half its crew dead, whilst the prisoners, isolated in the hold, are largely unaffected. Taking advantage of their captors' reduced numbers, the transportees (hopefully led by the PCs if you can drop enough helpful hints) break out, storm the ship, and take it over. Now, the PCs have their own pirate vessel, a loyal, though inexperienced, crew (the transportees), and a clear goal - raise enough capital to fund a proper rebellion back home, or to hire a mercenary army sufficient to take the kingdom by force.
Tormsskull 07-12-06, 10:13 AM	Let them start conspiring to overthrow the current king, even put them in contact with an established resistance group of like-minded individuals. Then have that group taken down by the kingdom's police forces, who have been investigating it for months, with the PCs caught in the middle. All conspirators are sentenced to exile, on a faraway island, and are promptly put aboard ship for transportation. Halfway there, the ship is hit by some misfortune (storm, plague, even pirates) that leaves over half its crew dead, whilst the prisoners, isolated in the hold, are largely unaffected. Taking advantage of their captors' reduced numbers, the transportees (hopefully led by the PCs if you can drop enough helpful hints) break out, storm the ship, and take it over. Now, the PCs have their own pirate vessel, a loyal, though inexperienced, crew (the transportees), and a clear goal - raise enough capital to fund a proper rebellion back home, or to hire a mercenary army sufficient to take the kingdom by force. As I read the first posts I was thinking "They try to overthrow the monarchy only to end up detained and thrown upon a ship and sent to a prison island. Enroute they can mutiny, take control of the ship, and they have what they want." Well, MarkB hit my idea spot on. I'll 2nd this idea here. Adventures on a boat can be a lot of fun, with a lot of different adventure to choose from. Sounds like a good time, happy gaming.
JamesDruidDM 07-12-06, 10:22 AM	....siege crabs...giant krakens...JAWS!!!!!! god I love the water
Anathema 07-12-06, 10:35 AM	I agree; if you're able and willing as a DM to provide something the group all wants to do then by all means you should do that. I'm not sure how much you'd want to change up your campaign, but here's what I did for one game. It was set in the planes (3e then upgraded to 3.5) that culminated with the players winding up in possession of an astral ship that they can use to sail around the planes and get to their adventures. I didn't get a chance to do much with it, but ship to ship battles were one thing I planned. More tailored to you, if it's a homebrew world, why not just introduce Final Fantasy style airships that they can capture and careen around in. They could even become contracted Privateers, doing 'legal' pirating for a specific nation. Good luck ;)
pierow37 07-12-06, 10:43 AM	Well for starters, everyone has talked about how to do it. i have one suggestion. and i also have something else to say. they should probably take classes in swashbuckler, or in dread pirate. second. they shouldh ave a map of there boat, you can have battels on there boat, make it realistic
pres_man 07-12-06, 12:17 PM	NPC pirate former captain is looking to take back his ship from his mutinous first mate. He's traveled far and wide to find folks with skills that he can use. Feel free to make the crew of the ship undead if you like. ;)
Cthulhu-LQ 07-12-06, 01:08 PM	Here is a great Pirate class http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=358801
Atirakis 07-12-06, 03:02 PM	As a DM I can tell you this. When you have something laid out and then suddenly everyone wants to take things in a wild new direction, instead of finding a way to make it work with their exisiting characters,tell them that if they want to be pirates then they have to draw up new pirate characters. Why find a reason for Bob the cleric to become a pirate when Joe the player can just draw up Jack Pigeon Pirate Extradonaire. Also on a more personal note pirates suck. LONG LIVE THE NINJA!!!
LCD2YOU 07-12-06, 03:06 PM	Let them start off as cabin boys/girls to a pirate. That might make them reconsider just what a pirate's life was really like.
MarkB 07-12-06, 03:59 PM	Let them start off as cabin boys/girls to a pirate. That might make them reconsider just what a pirate's life was really like. If we wanted to find out what things were really like, we wouldn't be playing a fantasy roleplaying game.
LurkeroftheUnderworld 07-12-06, 07:02 PM	As a DM I can tell you this. When you have something laid out and then suddenly everyone wants to take things in a wild new direction, instead of finding a way to make it work with their exisiting characters,tell them that if they want to be pirates then they have to draw up new pirate characters. Why find a reason for Bob the cleric to become a pirate when Joe the player can just draw up Jack Pigeon Pirate Extradonaire. Also on a more personal note pirates suck. This may be a good idea, but remember, only one of them has previous gaming experience. It took us about three four hour sessions to complete everyone's character. I would also agree with your assessment of a pirate's life. I think I may just tell everyone the glaring obvious problems with taking the game to the high seas: telling them the important skills they lack, background problems with the thri-kreen, and simply the many, many ways I can kill them on a boat. If they still want to go through with this, then I'll just say 'OK' and give an evil laugh. :evillaugh
kelvinaw273 07-12-06, 07:09 PM	I would say let them TRY. Let them travel to the coast, and see what they do there. It may well end up being played for laughs ....
pierow37 07-12-06, 09:20 PM	Well. what happens at sea? one of 2 things 1.) Absolutly nothing at all. an entire session of traveling, and getting lost. 2.) flying sharks that hide in bushes ambush your boat.
questionc 07-12-06, 09:48 PM	Man, you guys can be such nay-sayers. The players want to be pirates, and the point of DMing is to make sure they have fun doing it. Yarrr! I've done it... and yea, it's fun. A few pointers... Some time early in their pirate career, they players are going to steal a boat, whether you want them to or not. Don't freak out about the gp value of the boat. Owning a boat doesn't imbalance the system. Somebody reasonably skilled in Profession(Sailor) will be needed to Pilot the boat. For the crew, it's not so important, but can't hurt. The players should be able to hire a pilot (who should have NPC levels, btw) if they so desire. You can make the neccisary crew to man a ship huge, but there's nothing wrong with using less than 10 men to crew a shop. These maps were released after my game... but use them: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20050809a You might be interested in the spelljammer ship plans too. This is what I ended used. A lot of the ships aren't really nautical, but a few convert well. http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20050809a Piracy is a frontier setting. There should be some newly discovered area, with vast exploitable resources. Civilization should be fairly new to the area. Pirate settings should feature two nations competing for area dominance. England v Spain, East v West, Humans v Elves. In your case, valley Humans vs Struggling Magocrats sounds like the situation. Even though they are pirates, most adventures will probably take place on land. Seedy criminal boomtowns, Buried Treasure, violent native tribes, cursed ruins.
Atirakis 07-12-06, 10:58 PM	I never said dont let them be pirates. I said that if they want to be pirates that they should draw up new pirate characters rather than have an entire party have to be completely redesigned to fit the new pirate theme.
pierow37 07-12-06, 11:02 PM	I didn't say they coudln't be pirates. BUT, i did say they should be attacked by winged sharks that hid in bushes.
ChaoticGood 07-13-06, 02:30 AM	I'm with pierow... Winged Sharks who hide in the bushes for the win! :D If you have the Arms & Equipment Guide, there is a magic item in there (I believe it is called an Earth Rudder, but I'm not sure) that lets a ship travel on land. Perhaps they could be land pirates?? Of course, this is fantasy, so why not go for the classic and let them capture an airship? :D
necrom99 07-13-06, 03:19 AM	listen matey....don't listen to those non-pirate land-lubbin' answers! here's what'cha do....have the first adventure begin along the lines of comandeering a vessel...savvy? Then have them russell up a crew of the meanest, cut-throatiest sea dogs they can find.....the funnier and more memorable the better...then stock the ship full a rum and make a break for it!!! insist all games be played while drinkin'....you get to have a ton o' NPC's to intermingle with and possibly a nations Navy tryin' to scuttle them at every corner! look, if they ain't near land now, they can find a way there....maybe even pick up a couple o' scallywags on the way!
necrom99 07-13-06, 03:27 AM	ok ok....seriously, I run a Pirate Campaign....its moved from lvl 1 all the way to 13 so far.....trust me there's a million adventures you can run on the high sea's....even if most end up on land.....plus ship-to-ship battles are Amazing!
TarlSS 07-13-06, 09:10 AM	Why the heck not? So there characters are less optimized for sea travel. You intend to punish them further for already sucking? That's kind of vindictive. Piracy's about half of D&D. I mean, what are all those aquatic monsters in the MM for eh? And come on, Stormwrack? D&D is well suited for piracy. If you don't want to play a pirate game, or have prepared for something else entirely, that's a different matter. Then you just have to be straight honest and tell them, "I don't want a pirate game" instead of making things miserable for all involved.
Whisper_Swiftblade 07-13-06, 09:22 AM	sounds fun, just give then what they want. If you want an idea on how they are to become pirates, I have a fact you may be interested in : fact: when pirates attacked a merchant vessel it was acctuly farly common for them to ask if anyone one on the ship wanted to join them if they where short handed.
GoldLeader13 07-13-06, 07:23 PM	They really don't have to continue to use the same characters, do they? Start over, with new characters, in a sea setting. There are plenty of books out there to help with a pirate setting: Stormwrack and Swashbuckling Adventures (not a WotC book, but still good), among others. So it might take a while to redo characters. The more they do them, the more practice they'll get, the better they'll be. Then, let them commandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder, and otherwise pilfer their weasley black guts out.
Jon of the North 07-13-06, 08:03 PM	This pirate idea could be the influence of the new Pirates of the Caribean (sic) movie. If so, that's a bad sign. This month it's pirates, next month it's snakes on the mother:censored:ing airship, then a romantic comedy. 3rd level and they want to overthrow the government. They remind me of my players.
TarlSS 07-14-06, 10:23 AM	Hey, that's a good movie!
El Programer 07-14-06, 10:32 AM	For God's sake, make them all take ranks in Profession: Sailor! I'd climbed aboard, killed the crew in an rather exciting battle and stolen my own ship... only to find that I didn't know how to drive the damn thing. After getting out of port, I wandered in the open sea for a few days until I died of dehydration... My corpse was found centuries later as the sea washed my boat up against the shore. :(
DaveReaves 07-14-06, 01:16 PM	This pirate idea could be the influence of the new Pirates of the Caribean (sic) movie. If so, that's a bad sign. This month it's pirates, next month it's snakes on the mother:censored:ing airship, then a romantic comedy. 3rd level and they want to overthrow the government. They remind me of my players. So what should inspire a game and at what level can a character take the feat Aspire to Overthrow the Establishment? Personally I believe that anything that motivates people to play is a good thing and that characters can have long term goals as soon as think of what they want out of life. If your doing Pirates don't overlook Stormwrack. Good stuff in there. Make sure you have a full plan of the boat they are on. Know the carrying capacity, the minimum crew needed to fully man the ship, the stats of every member of the crew, how much damage the boat can take... anything you can think of. Talk to the players about their motivations, why they want to become pirates and make sure there is a back story that you can use to build adventures on. Adventurers could take place on their own ship, on the mainland, on islands or underwater. Support to overthrow a government has to come from somewhere. They will probably need alliances with other ships to do anything. Of course other captains will want something in return... perhaps the rare treasure guarded by the merfolk of Whitereef Islands who could either be fought or allied with depending on how the PCs handle it. There is all sorts of opportunity to use the sentient sea creatures that don't see much play even though they are some of the coolest critters in the books. You have motivated players, a limitless setting and a license to roll d20s. I vote you use it. Game on!
Derren S. 07-14-06, 03:12 PM	Don't forget that you also need to have fun. If you don't want to play a pirate campaign then don't do it. Also before you give your ok or not think if a pirate campaign would be fun or not. Piracy in D&D would be very different from the carribean piracy. There are no cannons, just catapults the ships are slow and generally stay near the cost etc...
agent of gurney 07-14-06, 04:34 PM	Makeing new characters wouldnt be a bad idea, and I know you said it took many many hours to make the characters but maybe the novices should start off in core only, there i said it. Just to keep it simple. But whatever you do have fun, thats rule one, which is more important than rule zero.
Solik 07-14-06, 04:37 PM	No need to roll new characters. An adventure to get a ship could level them up, and advise them to take the necessary skills at levelup. One level is sufficient for some Profession (sailor) points.
Jon of the North 07-14-06, 05:04 PM	So what should inspire a game and at what level can a character take the feat Aspire to Overthrow the Establishment? Personally I believe that anything that motivates people to play is a good thing and that characters can have long term goals as soon as think of what they want out of life. Maybe I wasn't clear. I have no problem with the source of inspiration, as long as A) they stick with it. B) they don't copy almost to a T. For A) that means they really want to be pirates and aren't just following the latest craze (Lord, that felt weird to type about gamers) If his players come back from seeing Superman Returns and say "We want to play super heroes" two weeks after wanting to be pirates, and a few weeks later change their minds again, he could have a problem. Now the other part. 1st, the whole "hey, that's a cool idea. Let's make it a feat." thing is something I've noticed too and bugs me, so :P . But have you ever tried to overthrow a government in game (note: if you have tried it out of game, :eek: ) ? It's hard. I tried to remove the Mayor of a single city because he taxed our treasure. So I lead a class warfare senerio with a begger army and the thieves guild, ended up killing him, the Deputy Mayor, the leader of the councel, and the Head of the Town Watch, along with 1/2 my party, 3/4 my "army", and a lot of commoners. End result: My allignment went from N to CE and I was crucified by the new mayor, AKA the guy who was 4th in line of succession, and the new HotTW, aka they old guy's nephew. That was for a town. I learned one has to pay his dues. You need, say, the Leadership feat in DnD. What will you do about the very long line of succession to the crown; are you willing to kill the 8 year old whose your alignment is the same as yours but who's next on the list? I assume the PCs want control of the country, do they have any plans on how to run it? I could go on, but I'm tired. I'm not saying they can't start to plan, but realize it'll be a long time before they're head of the rebels, much less the country.