"I WANT TO PLAY!" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"I WANT TO PLAY!" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
koragnar
08-06-05, 12:55 AM Well, Im the DM of the group. First off, my group isnt ideal. Ive got 4 players:
1- over exaggerates at everything "OMG this npc is really GOD IN DISGUISE because he smiled!"
2- is the worst videogame-mental person ever.
3- has imagination, but is too insecure to express it... without punching people... with sandals... *shudders*
4- is actually a good player, great imagination and doesnt wear sandals.

But back to the point. Being the DM is great I guess, I have so many ideas that the players love, and my homebrew campaign is about to start.

But in one session-
The players went into a room made completely out of brass, with a replica red dragon head in each corner of the ceiling, and a sundial looking object in the center . When inside, the exits all closed themselves and fire started pouring out of the dragon mouths. I then lit 4 candles on the table and flipped an hourglass "you can tell you have a short time before the heat starts to sink in"

all in all they figured out the sundial puzzle eventually. But after that I noticed that I REALLY want to play! The problem is, that none of the players make good DMs. They dont have their own ideas for fun things, and none of them seem to like DMing anyway.

Ive already made my character, created a blanced race for him, and made a background. And I really want to play.

I dont know whether I should just DMPC or what, but I would hate to know all the answeres to the puzzles and secrets.

all help is appreciated, thanks
Oakspar77777
08-06-05, 01:16 AM 1) Resist the urge to DMPC. The worse the DM the worse the DMPC of course with the usual abuses, but the worse the players the worse the DMPC as well, no matter how careful the DM is, because they will look to it as a Deus ex Machina (which it either will be, or else their reliance on it will result in them standing there waiting for it to be while they are TPKed by a less than fatal threat).

I suggest finding a second group to join as a PC, or start a one on one campaign with someone as a "teach you to DM exercise."

Personally, I find that when I have the urge to play, I just need to DM more, and the urge to play will play itself out that way. That, and I am a horrible player. I don't try to be, but it is hard when you already have memorized subconsciouly all the rules and most of the stats for EVERYTHING. I just naturally meta-game without even thinking about it.

Best of luck, but I would suggest that trying to make a game as fun as possible is much more fun than sitting in a game that isn't as fun as you know you can make one.
ccerose
08-06-05, 01:43 AM Go with a play by post game. Rpol.net and dndononlinegames.com come to mind.

I was in the same situation as you. I really wanted to be a player, but my schedule only allows me one game night per week. The rules vary from game to game, but most require that you post at least once a day.

There's always the RPGA. You might want to check if there are any games being run in your area.
Drausktanchache
08-06-05, 02:21 AM i'm in the same problem... i want to play but i'm both the best player and dm..so i found a good way...in my campaigns i basically am "teaching them" how to be a dm, because after every session they're like "that was great" and "how do you do it"...so i just kind of forced them upon the adaptation of my dming style, though as dms we are still very much unique
UltimateReality
08-06-05, 02:23 AM I am a horrible player.Is this a common thing with DMs? I've seen a couple that, when they finally got the chance they were raring at to make characters, seemed to have a bit of trouble letting go and not realizing that they didn't control everything now, and that they didn't know everything about the plot now, and that they would have to take their lumps just like the rest of the players and couldn't 'god-fix' it. (Not Deus Ex Machina, but you know how DMs spontaneously adapt things when the party would normally have a critical eff-up.)

it is hard when you already have memorized subconsciouly all the rules and most of the stats for EVERYTHING. I just naturally meta-game without even thinking about it.One of the reasons I'm going to be heavily modifying the creature descriptions in my campaign, if not some stats themselves. We have a bad set of metagamers...even I do it subconsciously sometimes. The line between player and character knowledge can get blurry, especially when it comes to high-Int or military background PCs choosing strategy and tactics.
Taladel
08-06-05, 03:17 AM I've been a DM for a while now, and I don't think I could ever go back to being a player. At least not in this system.

I agree almost wholeheartedly with Oakspar. I'm a horrible player now that I've been runningthe game. I still enjoy playing, mind you, I'm just not too good at it anymore. It really stinks, because I enjoy playing the game immensely.

NEVER DMPC. I've recognized this almost right off. I heard the analogy from someone on the boards: Think of D&D as The Matrix. You (as the DM), are the Agents, the Oracle, Morpheus, Seraph, all of those people and more. The players, on the other hand, are Neo, Trinity, Cypher, Niobi, etc. The players are the big movers and shakers. You provide background for them to do their thing in.

Here's an idea for the rad character ideas you get in your head. Write a short story about the character. Create him using the D&D rules, and write about him, and what he does, and who he adventures with and such. You may just have a decent clichéd novel on your hands. The kind that sells millions of copies at major bookstores. ^_^
Rallaster
08-06-05, 04:41 AM What is your position on DMPCing with a party with only one or two other PCs? I'm just wondering because I do it. I run an Apostle of Peace in one of the adventures to keep them alive, and in the other, a one on one gestalt, a Cleric/Sorcerer to keep him alive and provide him with buffs, utility and the occasional firepower necessary. I, by no means, steal the show in the second one.
GTH
08-06-05, 11:16 AM If i was you i would go straight to dndonlinegames.com. im there myself and running a FR campaign. If you are american (unlike me) it will be easy to get a game, but if you are european etc. it will be slightly harder but easily done nonetheless.
Unca_Laguna
08-06-05, 11:27 AM I don't see what the problem with a DMPC is as long as you play it right. my character is a true neutral cleric who does almost nothing but heal. I will occationally speak as DM and PC simultaniously ( example: yesterday I told my party IC and OoC that we should save the basement portion of the mantion we were exploring for the next day.) all my PC lets me do is round out the party (I'm the forth member) and also to let me enjoy the level advancement process. My character rarely speaks and his only personality trait is that he will stabalize dying enemies (the neutral or good ones).

I'm not going to let this get me in trouble. there really isn't a problem with a DMPC as long as you are willing to make some sacrifices on the part of your PC for the sake of being a DM.
BeyondFated
08-06-05, 11:47 AM I say go ahead and play a DMPC. But, to keep things fair, you should really have your DMPC sit on the sidelines when it comes to puzzle solving. That will limit you to a more hack-n-slash character, but thats the sacrifice you make to be DM.
rbrt_Spade
08-06-05, 11:55 AM wheres the rules for a dmpc anyways?-dmg
Vaalingrade Ashland
08-06-05, 12:09 PM wheres the rules for a dmpc anyways?-dmg
My sig. Tjeck boards links and click Rules for Running a DMPC. THe only actual problems with DMPCs are DMs who overpower and overshadow with them and players who have absolutly no faith or respect for thier DMs.
Phrennzy
08-06-05, 01:44 PM If you want to play as a player in this same group, you will have to accept that the other person may not be the same DM you would be.

And that's okay. Let him DM.

Go into the game as the player that you would want in your game. Be helpful, but not a rules lawyer. Roleplay without upstaging everyone. Be a good player and the DM will get better.

When you first started DMing, you sucked. You sucked hard and long. We all did. ANd you got better because your players had patience and stuck with you.

Do the same.
rbrt_Spade
08-06-05, 02:00 PM about nothing Phrennzy-great sig-classic-they should put that in the sig hall of fame :cool: :P

on topic-i will give that a try and do it right and not have a hate thread to me-i hate rbrt_spades dmpc-l1 pcs-me have l20 lich help them out....
The Weave05
08-06-05, 02:06 PM I'd say that Phrennzy hit the nail on the head. Give them a chance...thats is if they want to.

The DMPC approach is very tricky to use. If you've seen another DM do it, and he's good at it, ask him if you can have some tips on it. Otherwise its pretty much a trial by fire...and that can send the campaign down the drain...fast...very fast...(I've had my experiance :rolleyes: ) So be very careful with it.

The problem I see is that a DMPC might not be that much fun for you, because you cant do much as your character...you really cant get the true feeling for a character unless you join another group as a PC. As Ccerose said, theirs always a RPGA to join. But for now, perhaps try Phrennzy's suggestion. Otherwise you can try a DMPC or join another group if you want.

Hope that helps :)
rbrt_Spade
08-06-05, 02:10 PM well ive been a player but its been a while-should i read the anti-dmpc thread?
MortalPlague
08-06-05, 03:14 PM ...created a blanced race for him...

Maybe it's just my DM sense tingling, but this doesn't sound like an encouraging start. I've found that player-created races are more trouble than they're worth.

On that note, DMPC is an option I've tried before, though more as NPCs who happen to travel along with the group and don't steal xp (but gain slowly on the side). I usually give them quirky personality traits and a couple of interesting abilities, but they're almost always weaker than the PCs.
CycloneRanger
08-06-05, 03:54 PM I don't share the hatred of DMPCs that some other posters here seem to. However, I would caution you against a few things:

1. Don't play a spellcaster. It is very difficult to play a spellcaster and DM at the same time, because spellcasters have so many possible responses to any given threat. Other classes might be able to attack with a sword or a bow, but a spellcaster has to decide whether to use fire or ice or lightning, or weather to cast Globe of Invulnerability or Mage Armor, or whether to use a death effect against that creature you just saw. If you know, as the DM, that that creature is an illusion, you will have a hard time forcing yourself to waste a Finger of Death on it.

You might be able to get away with a healing-based cleric or druid for the early levels, but even then, at high levels it will be very difficult.

2. Don't help at solving puzzles or interacting with NPCs. Unless its just an intelligence-check type of puzzle, its best if your character is totally silent during these occasions.

3. Beware of giving advice to the party. Whether it is helpful or harmful, advice coming from your character will seem like advice coming from the DM, at least on some level. Many players will be angered by this.

Basically, if you just want to swing a sword and round out the party while waiting for someone else's turn to DM, then a DMPC is fine. If you really want to roleplay, avoid it.
koragnar
08-06-05, 06:44 PM Ive decided agianst DMPCing because even though I could stop myself from using what I know, I would like to solve puzzles. Plus, my playes would see every step I take as a sign: "omgar he stepped to the left, GREAT RED WYRM TO THE RIGHT EVERYONE!... AND...umm SATAN TOO!!!"

If you want to play as a player in this same group, you will have to accept that the other person may not be the same DM you would be.
Of course! Its not that they couldnt be good at it if they tried, its just that they dont seem to enthusiastic about it, and when I DO convince them to do it they look bored.
I think what Im gonna do is teach my brother ( the good player ) how to be the DM. He actually wasnt that bad in the first place, but I just didnt want to force him to do it.
Ill just pick up an ebberon book that I swear I didnt get off a bit-torrent with all the printed material out there, to take the pressure of world building off of em.

Maybe it's just my DM sense tingling, but this doesn't sound like an encouraging start. I've found that player-created races are more trouble than they're worth.
Oh thats just a Half-Human Gray elf, nothing flashy. I did it just for flavor really. I wanted to keep it simple but interesting.

I think I will go on over to dndonlinegames.com though and check it out.
Oakspar77777
08-06-05, 07:44 PM Ive decided agianst DMPCing because even though I could stop myself from using what I know, I would like to solve puzzles. Plus, my playes would see every step I take as a sign: "omgar he stepped to the left, GREAT RED WYRM TO THE RIGHT EVERYONE!... AND...umm SATAN TOO!!!"

That just shows that your players are ignorant. Satan is to the left. Satan is always to the left.
xlawedjeanne
08-06-05, 07:57 PM you in ways are the player.
think of it like this...
every monster u ever play is ur pc.
the pcs are now the monster.
u try to play ur monsters, and try to be creative and have fun.
soon you bring in npcs to fight, and it is more fun.
not only does that give the players more a challenge,
but it is more fun for you if ur monsters are more than just something you control. make them you. value everything you play. no monster will try half hearted to KILL a player :). so have fun with them.
Vaalingrade Ashland
08-06-05, 10:53 PM That just shows that your players are ignorant. Satan is to the left. Satan is always to the left.
He's right, children, I really am.
Zinegata
08-07-05, 12:20 AM NEVER DMPC. I've recognized this almost right off. I heard the analogy from someone on the boards: Think of D&D as The Matrix. You (as the DM), are the Agents, the Oracle, Morpheus, Seraph, all of those people and more. The players, on the other hand, are Neo, Trinity, Cypher, Niobi, etc. The players are the big movers and shakers. You provide background for them to do their thing in.

I think I was the one that made that analogy ^_^.

I think that generally though, you should probably find a different group to play with. Online playing would probably be the best option. I run an online campaign and it's very good for casual gaming by individuals spread all over the world ^_^.
MortalPlague
08-07-05, 02:59 AM Oh thats just a Half-Human Gray elf, nothing flashy. I did it just for flavor really. I wanted to keep it simple but interesting.

Ahhh, I see. Mostly harmless, then. :D

I've done that sort of thing for characters myself; I made a half-gnoll who battled his inner nature for one adventure, which was quite fun. I also had a player run a half-halfling once, which was quite entertaining. He was the bastard son of the halfling king (who had slept with a human serving woman), and the hidden heir to the throne. One of the other PCs played a halfling princess who was the public heir, and didn't know the other player's secret. It was most entertaining.
Rallaster
08-07-05, 12:28 PM That just shows that your players are ignorant. Satan is to the left. Satan is always to the left. :rofl:
koragnar
08-07-05, 03:07 PM you in ways are the player.
think of it like this...
every monster u ever play is ur pc.
the pcs are now the monster.
u try to play ur monsters, and try to be creative and have fun.
soon you bring in npcs to fight, and it is more fun.
not only does that give the players more a challenge,
but it is more fun for you if ur monsters are more than just something you control. make them you. value everything you play. no monster will try half hearted to KILL a player :). so have fun with them.
I really like that idea. I think that will help me alot. It used to be that I had a character that just one of them controlled, but that never worked out because they had no idea how to play it. Also I never really wanted to kill them, because I had a reason not to. I guess actually trying to kill them with the monsters would be fun, plus it would make them play better.
Santrilla
08-07-05, 03:53 PM The group I'm in regularly cycles the DM's mantle. I'll DM an adventure one week, then someone else will do one the next. If their adventure over-runs, they'll extend it into a mini-campaign for a few weeks before someone else takes over. Essentially we all share the same campaign world but explore different parts of it as it comes around to our turn.

Also, since we all have rather haphazard schedules, sometimes we won't have the 4 PCs that the DM expects for an apt challenge. Sometimes it'll be 5, sometimes 2. In the latter cases the DM has to bring in a DMPC, as I've had to do before.

This system works really well for us because we all get a chance to play pretty regularly.

When you're playing a DMPC, the best way to play it is, quite simply, to play it dumb. Fire off arrows at the troll. Release burning hands at the illusioned fire elemental. Let your players come up with the solution to their puzzles and problems while you play the mule.
Griffin34
08-07-05, 04:08 PM One thing you might be able to try is grabbing either a subscription to Dungeon Magazine or grab the Shackled City adventure path that just came out last month. These both have pre-made adventures in them where an inexpirenced DM really can't mess up as long as he follows what's happening in the book. Plus, it takes your characters from level 1 all the way to 20, and has a damn cool plot. But what really makes it great, is that, once the new DM is comfortable, the adventure path is morphable! A decent DM can sit down with it and mold it without any serious problems erupting. So, maybe you could get everyone to ptich in and grab the book and play off that.

My two cents.

PS: I use Shackled City for my second group (had a large group, needed to split it up) since I don't think I can deal with two campaigns simultaniously.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
koragnar 08-06-05, 12:55 AM	Well, Im the DM of the group. First off, my group isnt ideal. Ive got 4 players: 1- over exaggerates at everything "OMG this npc is really GOD IN DISGUISE because he smiled!" 2- is the worst videogame-mental person ever. 3- has imagination, but is too insecure to express it... without punching people... with sandals... shudders 4- is actually a good player, great imagination and doesnt wear sandals. But back to the point. Being the DM is great I guess, I have so many ideas that the players love, and my homebrew campaign is about to start. But in one session- The players went into a room made completely out of brass, with a replica red dragon head in each corner of the ceiling, and a sundial looking object in the center . When inside, the exits all closed themselves and fire started pouring out of the dragon mouths. I then lit 4 candles on the table and flipped an hourglass "you can tell you have a short time before the heat starts to sink in" all in all they figured out the sundial puzzle eventually. But after that I noticed that I REALLY want to play! The problem is, that none of the players make good DMs. They dont have their own ideas for fun things, and none of them seem to like DMing anyway. Ive already made my character, created a blanced race for him, and made a background. And I really want to play. I dont know whether I should just DMPC or what, but I would hate to know all the answeres to the puzzles and secrets. all help is appreciated, thanks
Oakspar77777 08-06-05, 01:16 AM	1) Resist the urge to DMPC. The worse the DM the worse the DMPC of course with the usual abuses, but the worse the players the worse the DMPC as well, no matter how careful the DM is, because they will look to it as a Deus ex Machina (which it either will be, or else their reliance on it will result in them standing there waiting for it to be while they are TPKed by a less than fatal threat). I suggest finding a second group to join as a PC, or start a one on one campaign with someone as a "teach you to DM exercise." Personally, I find that when I have the urge to play, I just need to DM more, and the urge to play will play itself out that way. That, and I am a horrible player. I don't try to be, but it is hard when you already have memorized subconsciouly all the rules and most of the stats for EVERYTHING. I just naturally meta-game without even thinking about it. Best of luck, but I would suggest that trying to make a game as fun as possible is much more fun than sitting in a game that isn't as fun as you know you can make one.
ccerose 08-06-05, 01:43 AM	Go with a play by post game. Rpol.net and dndononlinegames.com come to mind. I was in the same situation as you. I really wanted to be a player, but my schedule only allows me one game night per week. The rules vary from game to game, but most require that you post at least once a day. There's always the RPGA. You might want to check if there are any games being run in your area.
Drausktanchache 08-06-05, 02:21 AM	i'm in the same problem... i want to play but i'm both the best player and dm..so i found a good way...in my campaigns i basically am "teaching them" how to be a dm, because after every session they're like "that was great" and "how do you do it"...so i just kind of forced them upon the adaptation of my dming style, though as dms we are still very much unique
UltimateReality 08-06-05, 02:23 AM	I am a horrible player.Is this a common thing with DMs? I've seen a couple that, when they finally got the chance they were raring at to make characters, seemed to have a bit of trouble letting go and not realizing that they didn't control everything now, and that they didn't know everything about the plot now, and that they would have to take their lumps just like the rest of the players and couldn't 'god-fix' it. (Not Deus Ex Machina, but you know how DMs spontaneously adapt things when the party would normally have a critical eff-up.) it is hard when you already have memorized subconsciouly all the rules and most of the stats for EVERYTHING. I just naturally meta-game without even thinking about it.One of the reasons I'm going to be heavily modifying the creature descriptions in my campaign, if not some stats themselves. We have a bad set of metagamers...even I do it subconsciously sometimes. The line between player and character knowledge can get blurry, especially when it comes to high-Int or military background PCs choosing strategy and tactics.
Taladel 08-06-05, 03:17 AM	I've been a DM for a while now, and I don't think I could ever go back to being a player. At least not in this system. I agree almost wholeheartedly with Oakspar. I'm a horrible player now that I've been runningthe game. I still enjoy playing, mind you, I'm just not too good at it anymore. It really stinks, because I enjoy playing the game immensely. NEVER DMPC. I've recognized this almost right off. I heard the analogy from someone on the boards: Think of D&D as The Matrix. You (as the DM), are the Agents, the Oracle, Morpheus, Seraph, all of those people and more. The players, on the other hand, are Neo, Trinity, Cypher, Niobi, etc. The players are the big movers and shakers. You provide background for them to do their thing in. Here's an idea for the rad character ideas you get in your head. Write a short story about the character. Create him using the D&D rules, and write about him, and what he does, and who he adventures with and such. You may just have a decent clichéd novel on your hands. The kind that sells millions of copies at major bookstores. ^_^
Rallaster 08-06-05, 04:41 AM	What is your position on DMPCing with a party with only one or two other PCs? I'm just wondering because I do it. I run an Apostle of Peace in one of the adventures to keep them alive, and in the other, a one on one gestalt, a Cleric/Sorcerer to keep him alive and provide him with buffs, utility and the occasional firepower necessary. I, by no means, steal the show in the second one.
GTH 08-06-05, 11:16 AM	If i was you i would go straight to dndonlinegames.com. im there myself and running a FR campaign. If you are american (unlike me) it will be easy to get a game, but if you are european etc. it will be slightly harder but easily done nonetheless.
Unca_Laguna 08-06-05, 11:27 AM	I don't see what the problem with a DMPC is as long as you play it right. my character is a true neutral cleric who does almost nothing but heal. I will occationally speak as DM and PC simultaniously ( example: yesterday I told my party IC and OoC that we should save the basement portion of the mantion we were exploring for the next day.) all my PC lets me do is round out the party (I'm the forth member) and also to let me enjoy the level advancement process. My character rarely speaks and his only personality trait is that he will stabalize dying enemies (the neutral or good ones). I'm not going to let this get me in trouble. there really isn't a problem with a DMPC as long as you are willing to make some sacrifices on the part of your PC for the sake of being a DM.
BeyondFated 08-06-05, 11:47 AM	I say go ahead and play a DMPC. But, to keep things fair, you should really have your DMPC sit on the sidelines when it comes to puzzle solving. That will limit you to a more hack-n-slash character, but thats the sacrifice you make to be DM.
rbrt_Spade 08-06-05, 11:55 AM	wheres the rules for a dmpc anyways?-dmg
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-06-05, 12:09 PM	wheres the rules for a dmpc anyways?-dmg My sig. Tjeck boards links and click Rules for Running a DMPC. THe only actual problems with DMPCs are DMs who overpower and overshadow with them and players who have absolutly no faith or respect for thier DMs.
Phrennzy 08-06-05, 01:44 PM	If you want to play as a player in this same group, you will have to accept that the other person may not be the same DM you would be. And that's okay. Let him DM. Go into the game as the player that you would want in your game. Be helpful, but not a rules lawyer. Roleplay without upstaging everyone. Be a good player and the DM will get better. When you first started DMing, you sucked. You sucked hard and long. We all did. ANd you got better because your players had patience and stuck with you. Do the same.
rbrt_Spade 08-06-05, 02:00 PM	about nothing Phrennzy-great sig-classic-they should put that in the sig hall of fame :cool: :P on topic-i will give that a try and do it right and not have a hate thread to me-i hate rbrt_spades dmpc-l1 pcs-me have l20 lich help them out....
The Weave05 08-06-05, 02:06 PM	I'd say that Phrennzy hit the nail on the head. Give them a chance...thats is if they want to. The DMPC approach is very tricky to use. If you've seen another DM do it, and he's good at it, ask him if you can have some tips on it. Otherwise its pretty much a trial by fire...and that can send the campaign down the drain...fast...very fast...(I've had my experiance :rolleyes: ) So be very careful with it. The problem I see is that a DMPC might not be that much fun for you, because you cant do much as your character...you really cant get the true feeling for a character unless you join another group as a PC. As Ccerose said, theirs always a RPGA to join. But for now, perhaps try Phrennzy's suggestion. Otherwise you can try a DMPC or join another group if you want. Hope that helps :)
rbrt_Spade 08-06-05, 02:10 PM	well ive been a player but its been a while-should i read the anti-dmpc thread?
MortalPlague 08-06-05, 03:14 PM	...created a blanced race for him... Maybe it's just my DM sense tingling, but this doesn't sound like an encouraging start. I've found that player-created races are more trouble than they're worth. On that note, DMPC is an option I've tried before, though more as NPCs who happen to travel along with the group and don't steal xp (but gain slowly on the side). I usually give them quirky personality traits and a couple of interesting abilities, but they're almost always weaker than the PCs.
CycloneRanger 08-06-05, 03:54 PM	I don't share the hatred of DMPCs that some other posters here seem to. However, I would caution you against a few things: 1. Don't play a spellcaster. It is very difficult to play a spellcaster and DM at the same time, because spellcasters have so many possible responses to any given threat. Other classes might be able to attack with a sword or a bow, but a spellcaster has to decide whether to use fire or ice or lightning, or weather to cast Globe of Invulnerability or Mage Armor, or whether to use a death effect against that creature you just saw. If you know, as the DM, that that creature is an illusion, you will have a hard time forcing yourself to waste a Finger of Death on it. You might be able to get away with a healing-based cleric or druid for the early levels, but even then, at high levels it will be very difficult. 2. Don't help at solving puzzles or interacting with NPCs. Unless its just an intelligence-check type of puzzle, its best if your character is totally silent during these occasions. 3. Beware of giving advice to the party. Whether it is helpful or harmful, advice coming from your character will seem like advice coming from the DM, at least on some level. Many players will be angered by this. Basically, if you just want to swing a sword and round out the party while waiting for someone else's turn to DM, then a DMPC is fine. If you really want to roleplay, avoid it.
koragnar 08-06-05, 06:44 PM	Ive decided agianst DMPCing because even though I could stop myself from using what I know, I would like to solve puzzles. Plus, my playes would see every step I take as a sign: "omgar he stepped to the left, GREAT RED WYRM TO THE RIGHT EVERYONE!... AND...umm SATAN TOO!!!" If you want to play as a player in this same group, you will have to accept that the other person may not be the same DM you would be. Of course! Its not that they couldnt be good at it if they tried, its just that they dont seem to enthusiastic about it, and when I DO convince them to do it they look bored. I think what Im gonna do is teach my brother ( the good player ) how to be the DM. He actually wasnt that bad in the first place, but I just didnt want to force him to do it. Ill just pick up an ebberon book that I swear I didnt get off a bit-torrent with all the printed material out there, to take the pressure of world building off of em. Maybe it's just my DM sense tingling, but this doesn't sound like an encouraging start. I've found that player-created races are more trouble than they're worth. Oh thats just a Half-Human Gray elf, nothing flashy. I did it just for flavor really. I wanted to keep it simple but interesting. I think I will go on over to dndonlinegames.com though and check it out.
Oakspar77777 08-06-05, 07:44 PM	Ive decided agianst DMPCing because even though I could stop myself from using what I know, I would like to solve puzzles. Plus, my playes would see every step I take as a sign: "omgar he stepped to the left, GREAT RED WYRM TO THE RIGHT EVERYONE!... AND...umm SATAN TOO!!!" That just shows that your players are ignorant. Satan is to the left. Satan is always to the left.
xlawedjeanne 08-06-05, 07:57 PM	you in ways are the player. think of it like this... every monster u ever play is ur pc. the pcs are now the monster. u try to play ur monsters, and try to be creative and have fun. soon you bring in npcs to fight, and it is more fun. not only does that give the players more a challenge, but it is more fun for you if ur monsters are more than just something you control. make them you. value everything you play. no monster will try half hearted to KILL a player :). so have fun with them.
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-06-05, 10:53 PM	That just shows that your players are ignorant. Satan is to the left. Satan is always to the left. He's right, children, I really am.
Zinegata 08-07-05, 12:20 AM	NEVER DMPC. I've recognized this almost right off. I heard the analogy from someone on the boards: Think of D&D as The Matrix. You (as the DM), are the Agents, the Oracle, Morpheus, Seraph, all of those people and more. The players, on the other hand, are Neo, Trinity, Cypher, Niobi, etc. The players are the big movers and shakers. You provide background for them to do their thing in. I think I was the one that made that analogy ^_^. I think that generally though, you should probably find a different group to play with. Online playing would probably be the best option. I run an online campaign and it's very good for casual gaming by individuals spread all over the world ^_^.
MortalPlague 08-07-05, 02:59 AM	Oh thats just a Half-Human Gray elf, nothing flashy. I did it just for flavor really. I wanted to keep it simple but interesting. Ahhh, I see. Mostly harmless, then. :D I've done that sort of thing for characters myself; I made a half-gnoll who battled his inner nature for one adventure, which was quite fun. I also had a player run a half-halfling once, which was quite entertaining. He was the bastard son of the halfling king (who had slept with a human serving woman), and the hidden heir to the throne. One of the other PCs played a halfling princess who was the public heir, and didn't know the other player's secret. It was most entertaining.
Rallaster 08-07-05, 12:28 PM	That just shows that your players are ignorant. Satan is to the left. Satan is always to the left. :rofl:
koragnar 08-07-05, 03:07 PM	you in ways are the player. think of it like this... every monster u ever play is ur pc. the pcs are now the monster. u try to play ur monsters, and try to be creative and have fun. soon you bring in npcs to fight, and it is more fun. not only does that give the players more a challenge, but it is more fun for you if ur monsters are more than just something you control. make them you. value everything you play. no monster will try half hearted to KILL a player :). so have fun with them. I really like that idea. I think that will help me alot. It used to be that I had a character that just one of them controlled, but that never worked out because they had no idea how to play it. Also I never really wanted to kill them, because I had a reason not to. I guess actually trying to kill them with the monsters would be fun, plus it would make them play better.
Santrilla 08-07-05, 03:53 PM	The group I'm in regularly cycles the DM's mantle. I'll DM an adventure one week, then someone else will do one the next. If their adventure over-runs, they'll extend it into a mini-campaign for a few weeks before someone else takes over. Essentially we all share the same campaign world but explore different parts of it as it comes around to our turn. Also, since we all have rather haphazard schedules, sometimes we won't have the 4 PCs that the DM expects for an apt challenge. Sometimes it'll be 5, sometimes 2. In the latter cases the DM has to bring in a DMPC, as I've had to do before. This system works really well for us because we all get a chance to play pretty regularly. When you're playing a DMPC, the best way to play it is, quite simply, to play it dumb. Fire off arrows at the troll. Release burning hands at the illusioned fire elemental. Let your players come up with the solution to their puzzles and problems while you play the mule.
Griffin34 08-07-05, 04:08 PM	One thing you might be able to try is grabbing either a subscription to Dungeon Magazine or grab the Shackled City adventure path that just came out last month. These both have pre-made adventures in them where an inexpirenced DM really can't mess up as long as he follows what's happening in the book. Plus, it takes your characters from level 1 all the way to 20, and has a damn cool plot. But what really makes it great, is that, once the new DM is comfortable, the adventure path is morphable! A decent DM can sit down with it and mold it without any serious problems erupting. So, maybe you could get everyone to ptich in and grab the book and play off that. My two cents. PS: I use Shackled City for my second group (had a large group, needed to split it up) since I don't think I can deal with two campaigns simultaniously.