"In Depthness" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"In Depthness" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
roll8dn
12-29-04, 02:32 PM I find myself in the not-so-unique position of wanting to build my own world. Having gotten partway into it, I find that there are many things that I want to write about. This, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. However, I find myself thinking about the diminishing returns of creating too much background and detail for my world.

Not only will the PCs see only about 1% of everything that I want to do, I will find myself commited to that exact world-form. Should I want to change anything, I will have to rethink the impacts on everything else in the coherent world. Plus, the amount of time neccessary to go that deep into detail becomes somewhat excessive.

A good example of this is local politics: if the Duke of Sharland wants to open trade with the Sea Orcs, then it will cause tension with the community of Sylan, for they do not want anything to do with the Orcs. This will cause the city-state of Dato to step in and attempt to moderate, which will neccessitate them changing the main treaty that is the foundation of the Commonwealth of Nations. This will re-write major parts of my entire history for the continent, and will neccessitate an attempt to suspend disbelief by the players as a logic loophole the size of a Mack truck opens up in my history.

As one gets even more detailed, the problems become more complex. However, without a good amount of detail, the world does not seem real.

I suppose my question is this: how in depth do you, the DMing community, usually get when creating a homebrewed world?
satyrgrrrrl
12-29-04, 02:44 PM I run pregenerated settings.

I find that it's not the ability to come up with detail in the world, but the ability to relay the world to the players that is the problem with homebrew worlds.

I took me a long time to realize it, but the games I had the most success with were in predefined settings: Star Wars and Vampire: the Masquerade.

I thought that, for D&D, you had to make up every aspect of the world if you were a good GM. I finally swallowed my pride and tried my hand at Eberron, and, brother, let me tell you: It was awesome!

My advice: use a pregenerated setting. Players can see it, touch it, taste it, feel it, smell it, much more readily than anything you've made up. I mean, settings have dozens of people working on them full-time for long periods of time. It just makes sense that their world would be more easily-accessable than the world just you make up in the free time you have.

I don't want people to be offended by what I've said, because some are very sensitive to running their own worlds. If it's working for your game, that's great. If you've been running the same homebrew campaign world for years, then it makes sense that it's as fleshed out and identifiable as the pregenerated settings.

I think using a pregenerated setting (like the awesomeness that is Eberron) eases up on the maintenance work you have to do as a homebrew GM and lets you focus more on a consistent story. I've been running Eberron since it came out, much longer than any homebrew I've run.

Hope it helps!

:angel:
tackleberry
12-29-04, 03:08 PM i have always run homebrew (18 years) unless you count spelljammer!
recently i have started FR and am enjoying it emmensely - i particularly like the aspect that the areas, politics and npcs are a suprise to me as well as the players and enjoy the challenge of running the story lines, hooks and backgrounds presented therein as adventure possibilities.
however, with a pregen - the work involves KNOWING the setting intimately (i cocked up first game because of over eagerness and not wanting to step out of game to read up, by imagining the Heralds Holdfast as a village - no matter, now it IS a village)

with my past homebrew campaigns i have worked heavilly on npcs, cities, places. the real meat of the setting.
secondly, the economics of the areas and the politics - these are all just minor notes though, nothing heavy. something along the lines of; "the village of Bentoak sell woven goods, leather goods, skins and cloths to Silverwade, the two villages do not get along though as Silverwade keep beating Bentoak in the annual river race that takes place on the Enduin"

I then make notes as i go scribbled in the margins of each area - i only add to the main body of text if it is a far reaching effect or the pcs are likely to come back. I leave a large space for the latter purpose.
The pcs helped Bentoak beat Silverwade in the year 4522 race - the pcs are now not welcome in Silverwade!
major things within the world do not change behind the scenes - this is a waste of effort if the players do not know about it in the first place.
the pcs are usually involved in events of this magnitude and if the pcs have done something that shifts the balance of power i usually then give the effect a proper type up that i print multiple copies off and insert into the relevant parts of my campaign ring binder.
npcs have their own binder.

its all rather rough and ready - as long as i understand it and can give the players a good game with no continuity errors within, thats all that matters, its never going to get published!

now and then i will add a minor change such as a favourite inn changing owners or a small village falling on hard times. this is done by changing the relevant page in my ring binder so next time they go there the notes are ready infront of me.
this is just as good in giving the pcs the idea of an ever changing world which i think is the effect you are after.
my efforts are better spent on creating unique locations, memorable encounters and npcs that the players talk about ooc.
Dash Branaghan
12-29-04, 05:13 PM For me, I have developed the world, the land masses, the history, adjustments to ecology, the mythos complete with a Greek/Roman style demigod tales, adjustments to races, magic items, economy, governments, evolution of city states (after a war, one country split into three, another nation was split into two), I have intrigues on one side of the world, and obliviousness on the other, I have listed each country and what it's exports and imports are, population, racial breakdown, etc.

I had someone design the solar system to take into account the twin sun world that I have (the moon is constantly eclipsing the second sun) and have designed a calendar based on their calculations (gotta love knowing Astronomers).

There is so much that I have done that makes my world come alive for me, and still so much I need to do. If I could draw at all or find someone skilled and willing to volunteer, there is so much more I could do. My big thing is learning to map so I can create a giant world map, and then maps of each individual country.

For me, detail is an important thing, and I go out of my way to design my world with as much detail as I can. Of course, I also want to write a book that takes place in my world (maybe even a series following a low level group up through the ranks into some Epic battle or something), so the more detail, the more history, the better.

Good thing I get lots of free time between semesters.

Dash
Zetakya
12-29-04, 05:34 PM A Good Word to use is "Verisimilitude"

It means "Having the appearance of Truth". For a Roleplaying setting, what you want is to write a setting that has the appearance of being True - or at least plausible given the basic rules of the universe as you have them.

Anyway, with regards to your question; The thing to do is to remember that situations are rarely as absolute as people like to make out, either in real life or in your setting. An "Empire of a Thousand Years" that collapses shortly after the first emperor dies, an "Eternal Alliance of Soverign States" that destructs into recriminations and wars within a century, and so on.

Your NPCs can lie or be ignorant just as much as anyone else about matters, especially matters of opinion or hypothetical questions. Don't assume everyone has to be telling the truth all of the time, nor know themselves exactly what the future holds - in short, don't project your own omniscience onto the NPCs.
astute1
12-29-04, 08:16 PM I write about as much as the players will see. I have general concepts written in. The players will never know what they don't see, and usually, they don't care. If it looks good and plays good, that's what they want. In addition, I find that by leaving things generally vague, I have room to ad lib or write stuff in as I think of it. Usually that's good. Sometimes, not so much.
Cantankerous
12-29-04, 08:42 PM Zetakya has it about perfect. Remeber that evrything your PC's hear about the world comes from the mouths (and thus conceptions and pre-conceptions and outright wishful thinking and dogmaticism) of others. Those others are not impartial historical observers.

Hey, in THIS world impartial historical observers maybe be as great a myth as the Easter Bunny, why should it be any different in your world?

Isshia
ShadowDragon8685
12-29-04, 09:05 PM Some of us don't have the money for a campaign setting produced by WotC. :(
penchant
12-30-04, 02:20 AM Alms! Alms for the poor! Alms!

Yeah, I'm too cheap to spend $30 or more on a book I don't need. I can buy a ream of paper for $2 and fill it myself. Besides, I get to hear WTF!? from my players more often that way!
Mjollnir88
12-30-04, 05:16 AM Alms! Alms for the poor! Alms!

Yeah, I'm too cheap to spend $30 or more on a book I don't need. I can buy a ream of paper for $2 and fill it myself. Besides, I get to hear WTF!? from my players more often that way!

"Alms for an ex-leper!"

I do homebrew as well. Mostly because I can make the setting "just right", but the "free" aspect doesn't hurt.
Joe Khol
12-30-04, 05:32 AM I suppose my question is this: how in depth do you, the DMing community, usually get when creating a homebrewed world?

As little as possible. For a start, I work on the general plot of the campaign I want to run before even thinking about where it will be set. I then know what kind of things I need and which are likely to need the most detail.

I'll draw a rough (known) world map with coastlines, mountains, major forests and rivers, national borders and major cities - nothing more. Then the bits the players will be starting in get enough detail to work with (which will depend on the kind of game). As the game (and the party) moves on, I flesh out what they are moving into (a combination of making it up on the fly and working between sessions).

This way I minimise the amount of work I do before the game starts and can cater the world as the style and nature of the game and characters develop. Sometimes the whole thing changes greatly from what I initially intended - cities move, islands appear or disappear, forests grow or shrink. As long as you are consistent with what the players have already seen it isn't a problem. It is that flexibility which makes me prefer my own campaign worlds over published ones (though I'm not innocent of stealing wholesale chunks of published campaigns and game worlds).
Kalanth
12-30-04, 06:30 AM The amount of detail I have gone into for my home brew world? I guess its turned into a bit of a hobby for me at this point, but the writings that I have accumulated about my world rival the campaign setting books that are out these days. Total number of pages exceeds that of the Forgoten Realms campaign book by 3 pages. I wrote regional histories, world history, in depth manuerisms of each playable race, detailed cultural and social habits and rituals, historic figures in the history (full detail of character lvls, weapons, and personal histories), etc. etc. etc. All in all, if Wizards was looking for something to put out, and I thought they would, I have enough here to put out yet another campaign world in their name.
Ninja_Sensei
12-30-04, 09:06 AM As for me, I've been running in Greyhawk since 1st Edition. I like it because it gives me a broad canvas sketched out in little detail that I can hang my smaller detailed areas on. So I get the best of both worlds - a supported campaign setting and home-brew campaign areas.

This lets me design from a single little village upwards (most rural people in medieval times did not travel more than a day's travel - about 7 or 8 miles - from their homes in their lifetime.). That way they have a detailed home base (I actually have a small town with every single adult populace described in detail ... thank god for NPC generators!) in a bigger world with politics etc. going on 'off screen'.

You might want to see if you can find an old copy of the World Builder's Guide (by TSR) ... they talked about the "top down" and "bottom up" design processes.
DMFTodd
12-30-04, 11:01 AM I'm redoing my campaign stuff as well right now. I think the goal should be to do as little as possible right now for several reasons:

1) Your players probably won't bother to read all of it anyways. And even if they do read it all, they won't remember it.

2) The more you do now, the more constricted you'll be later on.

3) DM burnout. When creating a campaign world, you can write forever. Eventually you'll burnout. You may burnout before the campaign ever gets underway.

My goal has been to limit myself to just what the players need to know: Races, classes, a little history of the world, a little detail of the world, a little more detail on the place where the campaign is taking place, the gods, a little cosmology, and that's it.

As for your players seeing inconsistencies in the world history, I'd simply tell them that you're doing a "campaign reset". If you can coincide that with starting a new campaign with new characters, all the better.
DMFTodd
12-30-04, 11:07 AM I'm redoing my campaign stuff as well right now. I think the goal should be to do as little as possible right now for several reasons:

1) Your players probably won't bother to read all of it anyways. And even if they do read it all, they won't remember it.

2) The more you do now, the more constricted you'll be later on.

3) DM burnout. When creating a campaign world, you can write forever. Eventually you'll burnout. You may burnout before the campaign ever gets underway.

My goal has been to limit myself to just what the players need to know: Races, classes, a little history of the world, a little detail of the world, a little more detail on the place where the campaign is taking place, the gods, a little cosmology, and that's it.

As for your players seeing inconsistencies in the world history, I'd simply tell them that you're doing a "campaign reset". If you can coincide that with starting a new campaign with new characters, all the better.
Gilean
12-30-04, 01:20 PM I have a general map of one continent in my head, and few elven cultures written down, including short mythical history. The rest I pretty much make up when gaming.
roll8dn
12-30-04, 05:52 PM Wow. I did not expect this many quick answers. Truly, I appreciate it. :bow: I know that this is not really the correct forum for world-building, but I have a secondary question.

What do you folks find is the most helpful thing to design first? A rough history, a map, a storyline that you want to get the players involved in, or something else (anything goes; those are just examples off of the top of my head)?
alecthemad
12-30-04, 06:19 PM I put a lot of focus on the places where I plan to center adventures. I sketch out a map of countries and city states around the world and come up with two sentences to describe each one. Usually covering the type of government and the society (which the government often reflects). I also cover their interactions with neighbors. If a player wants to come from a certain region you may want to come up with a little more information.

This is enough if the players ask about the area as you have some information to give them. I keep a list of names near me so that if they ask for names of cities or people then I just pick a name and make a note on the list.

Then I develop areas where I think the adventure will lead. If the players have to go to a far off place and will not be teleporting then it does no harm to ask the method and route they plan so you can plan out the next few encounters.

I have created entire worlds with just 10 sheets of paper and a map. I just created the parts I need when they come up.
Tusz
12-30-04, 08:04 PM I start with a map, then do some history, and then an adventure in that context. It gives more detail to the world, and it's come in handy (PCs have gone off the expected path, or have asked what's in a history book they found, etc).
ManinDarkness
12-30-04, 09:54 PM Start with the base of operation first, and add details as needed. Is much faster, and the world still holds surprises to the DM when the PC's change scenary.
RPGfish
12-30-04, 11:00 PM You start with a base. A nice simple history and 15 pre-made maps would be good. Start adding maps 1 at a time until you have this huge single map with a variety of dungeons, towns, and adventure spots. When your PCs have explored about 70% of it, add a few extra maps.
Kalanth
12-30-04, 11:45 PM I had a map laid out, then went through and set down the social structure (what RL society that realm resembled) and placed them in appropriate areas after that fact. Once those where in place, I began to work out the social agreements between each nation (these guys hate these guys, etc), and finished off with history. Anything in addition to was really just fluff for my personal gratification.
penchant
12-31-04, 12:26 AM I always start with a map. Geography rules all! Set cites near water or landmarks and figure out their relationships to each other. As you develop it one thing will logically follow another.

The best thing to do is get a real map and see how it looks, where the towns are and how and why they are prosperous or not. You can even just trace over real maps and use those.
zodiki
12-31-04, 12:44 AM Write as much as you need to to feel comfortable acting as your campaign setting's ambassador to the PCs. The rest should be spent creating the details of the adventures the PCs will actually participate in.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
roll8dn 12-29-04, 02:32 PM	I find myself in the not-so-unique position of wanting to build my own world. Having gotten partway into it, I find that there are many things that I want to write about. This, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. However, I find myself thinking about the diminishing returns of creating too much background and detail for my world. Not only will the PCs see only about 1% of everything that I want to do, I will find myself commited to that exact world-form. Should I want to change anything, I will have to rethink the impacts on everything else in the coherent world. Plus, the amount of time neccessary to go that deep into detail becomes somewhat excessive. A good example of this is local politics: if the Duke of Sharland wants to open trade with the Sea Orcs, then it will cause tension with the community of Sylan, for they do not want anything to do with the Orcs. This will cause the city-state of Dato to step in and attempt to moderate, which will neccessitate them changing the main treaty that is the foundation of the Commonwealth of Nations. This will re-write major parts of my entire history for the continent, and will neccessitate an attempt to suspend disbelief by the players as a logic loophole the size of a Mack truck opens up in my history. As one gets even more detailed, the problems become more complex. However, without a good amount of detail, the world does not seem real. I suppose my question is this: how in depth do you, the DMing community, usually get when creating a homebrewed world?
satyrgrrrrl 12-29-04, 02:44 PM	I run pregenerated settings. I find that it's not the ability to come up with detail in the world, but the ability to relay the world to the players that is the problem with homebrew worlds. I took me a long time to realize it, but the games I had the most success with were in predefined settings: Star Wars and Vampire: the Masquerade. I thought that, for D&D, you had to make up every aspect of the world if you were a good GM. I finally swallowed my pride and tried my hand at Eberron, and, brother, let me tell you: It was awesome! My advice: use a pregenerated setting. Players can see it, touch it, taste it, feel it, smell it, much more readily than anything you've made up. I mean, settings have dozens of people working on them full-time for long periods of time. It just makes sense that their world would be more easily-accessable than the world just you make up in the free time you have. I don't want people to be offended by what I've said, because some are very sensitive to running their own worlds. If it's working for your game, that's great. If you've been running the same homebrew campaign world for years, then it makes sense that it's as fleshed out and identifiable as the pregenerated settings. I think using a pregenerated setting (like the awesomeness that is Eberron) eases up on the maintenance work you have to do as a homebrew GM and lets you focus more on a consistent story. I've been running Eberron since it came out, much longer than any homebrew I've run. Hope it helps! :angel:
tackleberry 12-29-04, 03:08 PM	i have always run homebrew (18 years) unless you count spelljammer! recently i have started FR and am enjoying it emmensely - i particularly like the aspect that the areas, politics and npcs are a suprise to me as well as the players and enjoy the challenge of running the story lines, hooks and backgrounds presented therein as adventure possibilities. however, with a pregen - the work involves KNOWING the setting intimately (i cocked up first game because of over eagerness and not wanting to step out of game to read up, by imagining the Heralds Holdfast as a village - no matter, now it IS a village) with my past homebrew campaigns i have worked heavilly on npcs, cities, places. the real meat of the setting. secondly, the economics of the areas and the politics - these are all just minor notes though, nothing heavy. something along the lines of; "the village of Bentoak sell woven goods, leather goods, skins and cloths to Silverwade, the two villages do not get along though as Silverwade keep beating Bentoak in the annual river race that takes place on the Enduin" I then make notes as i go scribbled in the margins of each area - i only add to the main body of text if it is a far reaching effect or the pcs are likely to come back. I leave a large space for the latter purpose. The pcs helped Bentoak beat Silverwade in the year 4522 race - the pcs are now not welcome in Silverwade! major things within the world do not change behind the scenes - this is a waste of effort if the players do not know about it in the first place. the pcs are usually involved in events of this magnitude and if the pcs have done something that shifts the balance of power i usually then give the effect a proper type up that i print multiple copies off and insert into the relevant parts of my campaign ring binder. npcs have their own binder. its all rather rough and ready - as long as i understand it and can give the players a good game with no continuity errors within, thats all that matters, its never going to get published! now and then i will add a minor change such as a favourite inn changing owners or a small village falling on hard times. this is done by changing the relevant page in my ring binder so next time they go there the notes are ready infront of me. this is just as good in giving the pcs the idea of an ever changing world which i think is the effect you are after. my efforts are better spent on creating unique locations, memorable encounters and npcs that the players talk about ooc.
Dash Branaghan 12-29-04, 05:13 PM	For me, I have developed the world, the land masses, the history, adjustments to ecology, the mythos complete with a Greek/Roman style demigod tales, adjustments to races, magic items, economy, governments, evolution of city states (after a war, one country split into three, another nation was split into two), I have intrigues on one side of the world, and obliviousness on the other, I have listed each country and what it's exports and imports are, population, racial breakdown, etc. I had someone design the solar system to take into account the twin sun world that I have (the moon is constantly eclipsing the second sun) and have designed a calendar based on their calculations (gotta love knowing Astronomers). There is so much that I have done that makes my world come alive for me, and still so much I need to do. If I could draw at all or find someone skilled and willing to volunteer, there is so much more I could do. My big thing is learning to map so I can create a giant world map, and then maps of each individual country. For me, detail is an important thing, and I go out of my way to design my world with as much detail as I can. Of course, I also want to write a book that takes place in my world (maybe even a series following a low level group up through the ranks into some Epic battle or something), so the more detail, the more history, the better. Good thing I get lots of free time between semesters. Dash
Zetakya 12-29-04, 05:34 PM	A Good Word to use is "Verisimilitude" It means "Having the appearance of Truth". For a Roleplaying setting, what you want is to write a setting that has the appearance of being True - or at least plausible given the basic rules of the universe as you have them. Anyway, with regards to your question; The thing to do is to remember that situations are rarely as absolute as people like to make out, either in real life or in your setting. An "Empire of a Thousand Years" that collapses shortly after the first emperor dies, an "Eternal Alliance of Soverign States" that destructs into recriminations and wars within a century, and so on. Your NPCs can lie or be ignorant just as much as anyone else about matters, especially matters of opinion or hypothetical questions. Don't assume everyone has to be telling the truth all of the time, nor know themselves exactly what the future holds - in short, don't project your own omniscience onto the NPCs.
astute1 12-29-04, 08:16 PM	I write about as much as the players will see. I have general concepts written in. The players will never know what they don't see, and usually, they don't care. If it looks good and plays good, that's what they want. In addition, I find that by leaving things generally vague, I have room to ad lib or write stuff in as I think of it. Usually that's good. Sometimes, not so much.
Cantankerous 12-29-04, 08:42 PM	Zetakya has it about perfect. Remeber that evrything your PC's hear about the world comes from the mouths (and thus conceptions and pre-conceptions and outright wishful thinking and dogmaticism) of others. Those others are not impartial historical observers. Hey, in THIS world impartial historical observers maybe be as great a myth as the Easter Bunny, why should it be any different in your world? Isshia
ShadowDragon8685 12-29-04, 09:05 PM	Some of us don't have the money for a campaign setting produced by WotC. :(
penchant 12-30-04, 02:20 AM	Alms! Alms for the poor! Alms! Yeah, I'm too cheap to spend $30 or more on a book I don't need. I can buy a ream of paper for $2 and fill it myself. Besides, I get to hear WTF!? from my players more often that way!
Mjollnir88 12-30-04, 05:16 AM	Alms! Alms for the poor! Alms! Yeah, I'm too cheap to spend $30 or more on a book I don't need. I can buy a ream of paper for $2 and fill it myself. Besides, I get to hear WTF!? from my players more often that way! "Alms for an ex-leper!" I do homebrew as well. Mostly because I can make the setting "just right", but the "free" aspect doesn't hurt.
Joe Khol 12-30-04, 05:32 AM	I suppose my question is this: how in depth do you, the DMing community, usually get when creating a homebrewed world? As little as possible. For a start, I work on the general plot of the campaign I want to run before even thinking about where it will be set. I then know what kind of things I need and which are likely to need the most detail. I'll draw a rough (known) world map with coastlines, mountains, major forests and rivers, national borders and major cities - nothing more. Then the bits the players will be starting in get enough detail to work with (which will depend on the kind of game). As the game (and the party) moves on, I flesh out what they are moving into (a combination of making it up on the fly and working between sessions). This way I minimise the amount of work I do before the game starts and can cater the world as the style and nature of the game and characters develop. Sometimes the whole thing changes greatly from what I initially intended - cities move, islands appear or disappear, forests grow or shrink. As long as you are consistent with what the players have already seen it isn't a problem. It is that flexibility which makes me prefer my own campaign worlds over published ones (though I'm not innocent of stealing wholesale chunks of published campaigns and game worlds).
Kalanth 12-30-04, 06:30 AM	The amount of detail I have gone into for my home brew world? I guess its turned into a bit of a hobby for me at this point, but the writings that I have accumulated about my world rival the campaign setting books that are out these days. Total number of pages exceeds that of the Forgoten Realms campaign book by 3 pages. I wrote regional histories, world history, in depth manuerisms of each playable race, detailed cultural and social habits and rituals, historic figures in the history (full detail of character lvls, weapons, and personal histories), etc. etc. etc. All in all, if Wizards was looking for something to put out, and I thought they would, I have enough here to put out yet another campaign world in their name.
Ninja_Sensei 12-30-04, 09:06 AM	As for me, I've been running in Greyhawk since 1st Edition. I like it because it gives me a broad canvas sketched out in little detail that I can hang my smaller detailed areas on. So I get the best of both worlds - a supported campaign setting and home-brew campaign areas. This lets me design from a single little village upwards (most rural people in medieval times did not travel more than a day's travel - about 7 or 8 miles - from their homes in their lifetime.). That way they have a detailed home base (I actually have a small town with every single adult populace described in detail ... thank god for NPC generators!) in a bigger world with politics etc. going on 'off screen'. You might want to see if you can find an old copy of the World Builder's Guide (by TSR) ... they talked about the "top down" and "bottom up" design processes.
DMFTodd 12-30-04, 11:01 AM	I'm redoing my campaign stuff as well right now. I think the goal should be to do as little as possible right now for several reasons: 1) Your players probably won't bother to read all of it anyways. And even if they do read it all, they won't remember it. 2) The more you do now, the more constricted you'll be later on. 3) DM burnout. When creating a campaign world, you can write forever. Eventually you'll burnout. You may burnout before the campaign ever gets underway. My goal has been to limit myself to just what the players need to know: Races, classes, a little history of the world, a little detail of the world, a little more detail on the place where the campaign is taking place, the gods, a little cosmology, and that's it. As for your players seeing inconsistencies in the world history, I'd simply tell them that you're doing a "campaign reset". If you can coincide that with starting a new campaign with new characters, all the better.
DMFTodd 12-30-04, 11:07 AM	I'm redoing my campaign stuff as well right now. I think the goal should be to do as little as possible right now for several reasons: 1) Your players probably won't bother to read all of it anyways. And even if they do read it all, they won't remember it. 2) The more you do now, the more constricted you'll be later on. 3) DM burnout. When creating a campaign world, you can write forever. Eventually you'll burnout. You may burnout before the campaign ever gets underway. My goal has been to limit myself to just what the players need to know: Races, classes, a little history of the world, a little detail of the world, a little more detail on the place where the campaign is taking place, the gods, a little cosmology, and that's it. As for your players seeing inconsistencies in the world history, I'd simply tell them that you're doing a "campaign reset". If you can coincide that with starting a new campaign with new characters, all the better.
Gilean 12-30-04, 01:20 PM	I have a general map of one continent in my head, and few elven cultures written down, including short mythical history. The rest I pretty much make up when gaming.
roll8dn 12-30-04, 05:52 PM	Wow. I did not expect this many quick answers. Truly, I appreciate it. :bow: I know that this is not really the correct forum for world-building, but I have a secondary question. What do you folks find is the most helpful thing to design first? A rough history, a map, a storyline that you want to get the players involved in, or something else (anything goes; those are just examples off of the top of my head)?
alecthemad 12-30-04, 06:19 PM	I put a lot of focus on the places where I plan to center adventures. I sketch out a map of countries and city states around the world and come up with two sentences to describe each one. Usually covering the type of government and the society (which the government often reflects). I also cover their interactions with neighbors. If a player wants to come from a certain region you may want to come up with a little more information. This is enough if the players ask about the area as you have some information to give them. I keep a list of names near me so that if they ask for names of cities or people then I just pick a name and make a note on the list. Then I develop areas where I think the adventure will lead. If the players have to go to a far off place and will not be teleporting then it does no harm to ask the method and route they plan so you can plan out the next few encounters. I have created entire worlds with just 10 sheets of paper and a map. I just created the parts I need when they come up.
Tusz 12-30-04, 08:04 PM	I start with a map, then do some history, and then an adventure in that context. It gives more detail to the world, and it's come in handy (PCs have gone off the expected path, or have asked what's in a history book they found, etc).
ManinDarkness 12-30-04, 09:54 PM	Start with the base of operation first, and add details as needed. Is much faster, and the world still holds surprises to the DM when the PC's change scenary.
RPGfish 12-30-04, 11:00 PM	You start with a base. A nice simple history and 15 pre-made maps would be good. Start adding maps 1 at a time until you have this huge single map with a variety of dungeons, towns, and adventure spots. When your PCs have explored about 70% of it, add a few extra maps.
Kalanth 12-30-04, 11:45 PM	I had a map laid out, then went through and set down the social structure (what RL society that realm resembled) and placed them in appropriate areas after that fact. Once those where in place, I began to work out the social agreements between each nation (these guys hate these guys, etc), and finished off with history. Anything in addition to was really just fluff for my personal gratification.
penchant 12-31-04, 12:26 AM	I always start with a map. Geography rules all! Set cites near water or landmarks and figure out their relationships to each other. As you develop it one thing will logically follow another. The best thing to do is get a real map and see how it looks, where the towns are and how and why they are prosperous or not. You can even just trace over real maps and use those.
zodiki 12-31-04, 12:44 AM	Write as much as you need to to feel comfortable acting as your campaign setting's ambassador to the PCs. The rest should be spent creating the details of the adventures the PCs will actually participate in.