"Level 30 Campaign" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Level 30 Campaign" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tillie_the_Pirate
01-29-06, 10:40 AM There are four people in my gaming group, myself included. One of the guys, let's call him Luck, decides to host a level 30 campaign.

My personal view on the topic is that rolling any character that high is impossible because the rich history behind any given character; including items, friends, and enemies gained through the YEARS (ahem); could never result in a few die rolls and random magic items, and thusly it just becomes "Oh I think I'll kill Nerull today" because of no sense of challenge in the world.

What are the opinions of fellow DMs on starting campaigns this high?
TinManFan
01-29-06, 11:52 AM Think of it as a challenge to come up w/ all of that. Sure, a friend of yours could come up with some dwarf fighter w/ piles of feats, but you have a character.

And for the record, there's nothing wrong with a Bard pumping out a +20 morale bonus with his Inspire ability. Adds enough to make a Power Attacker very happy with a greatsword.
halaster
01-29-06, 12:07 PM i had a friend who tried to run a lvl 45 game. we had a rakasha wizard, strait druid, 2 weapon ranger, and a demi lich ceric capible of casting 6 epic spells a day.
lets just say the game fell apart in 2 sesions. w. no personallity to the pc's it cant be played.
tompulsar
01-29-06, 12:18 PM I stand by my original advice from this thread...

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=577207
Tyler Do'Urden
01-29-06, 01:05 PM Don't be silly. If he's starting at 30th level, he probably doesn't care about your backstory. Just a believable origin with details that can be filled in later is fine. Realistically, if you played a campaign from level 1 to level 30, you'd have so many stories, you'd lose track of them all. So it's perfectly reasonable for him to just make things up and have you make Wisdom or Knowledge checks.
"My entire village was demolished for your little scuffle with the dragon. I demand satisfaction!"
"I'm terribly sorry, could you be a bit more specific?"
"It was a black dragon."
::nodding: "Yes, more specific please."
"It ate my mother and then cursed you all to live a thousand lives with no genitals."
"...forrest town or desert oasis?"
"Oasis."
"Oh yes that one! That was fun. Well, here's a bag of holding with 3000 platinum and three favors. That should buy your entire town ten times over. Have a nice day, farm boy!"
shadowfox628
01-29-06, 01:44 PM Look, let me tell you something... If a single level 10 Rogue/Assassin can kill a level 30 Monk/Drunken Master in a single hit, then there should be no problem playing as Epics. Worst comes to worst, your friend revises the description of Tarisques (... can't spell it) from "only one" to "travels in groups of 3."

That, or things will get crazy... Though I doubt they'll kill the gods.. They'd probibly more likely to gang up on the Epics than to submit themselves to death one-by-one.
Chosen01
02-04-06, 10:23 AM I don’t know if I can change your opinion of epic gaming but here goes…

You can find rollplayers at any level of the game besides epic level, just visit the Character Optimization forum for proof of this. On the other hand, you can certainly roleplay at epic levels. Creating backgound fluff for epic characters certainly needs more work and a lot of imagination but it can be done properly. I invite you guys to visit Dicefreaks (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/index.php) (an online DnD community) and check out some of the fan made creations particularly The Gates of Hell (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88). Keep an open mind and come hangout with us :)
Vaalingrade Ashland
02-04-06, 02:06 PM My personal view on the topic is that rolling any character that high is impossible because the rich history behind any given character; including items, friends, and enemies gained through the YEARS (ahem); could never result in a few die rolls and random magic items, and thusly it just becomes "Oh I think I'll kill Nerull today" because of no sense of challenge in the world.
1) You show both a bias and an ignorance of Epic play. Creating a good history for an epic characters is just as possible as creating one for any other character at any other level.

And if the world doesn't hold challenge for the Epic characters, your DM is just as ignorant about Epic play and shamefully so.

2) I don't even beleive this game exists.

In the past weeks, you've managed to find your way into a game that contains one of the most common hot button issues on the boards; destroying the sacred cow magic missle, players who cheat up thier stats, and now Epic play. I will not be surpised when I come back from gaming this weekend (With my level 26 bard and my level 6 rogue) to find you've written another flame bait thread about an alignment shift or an assassin maybe some undead too.
Rivelstraz
02-04-06, 02:12 PM Only once I've seen almost-epic characters, and it was with me DMing. 3 years old campaign. In the end it was tedious and boring. The story was rich, but eventually everything was about combat. Long and tedious combats, with both sides hitting for absurd amounts of damage and the clerics healing all of it without much problems.
I had to cut it.

When the character are low level, climb, jump, etc. are interesting, since they don't have much resources to overcome it. Once they are high level, most skills become almost useless. Why do you want to sneak when you can turn whole party invisible and silent? Or fly? Or teleport? Or a long etc.

They have a great story behind the characters, so I'm going to weaken them somehow.
imperialjunkie
02-04-06, 03:01 PM Based on the two threads I've seen you [Tillie the Pirate] start, there seems to be a definite case of power hunger going on in your group. But hey... if you all want to play lvl 30 characters or lvl 12 characters with 58 Str, then have a blast.

It can be fun to come up with pre-existing epic backstories. This can really satisfy the closet novelists who like to make up their character's stories but who are foiled by pesky DMs who won't railroad as desired. [/tongue-in-cheek]

Another answer to the 'problem' is high LA templates. Make a Astral Deva PC with a few other templates slapped on, and you can easily have a high epic PC without epic class levels.
Vaalingrade Ashland
02-04-06, 07:28 PM Based on the two threads I've seen you [Tillie the Pirate] start, there seems to be a definite case of power hunger going on in your group.
I'm fairly certain none of those situations actually happened.
dungeonmasterblog
02-04-06, 07:31 PM I've always thought it's best to start low and I always run my campaigns where the characters are first level. When that happens, the characters and players grow into the campaign. If you drop high level characters on them from the start, they never get a chance to grow with the character.

Which is probably why I enjoyed Baldurs Gate I better then the II. There's something exciting about moving up from first to second level. Not as much when it's 30th to 31st.

Dungeon Master
http://www.dungeonmasterblog.com

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tillie_the_Pirate 01-29-06, 10:40 AM	There are four people in my gaming group, myself included. One of the guys, let's call him Luck, decides to host a level 30 campaign. My personal view on the topic is that rolling any character that high is impossible because the rich history behind any given character; including items, friends, and enemies gained through the YEARS (ahem); could never result in a few die rolls and random magic items, and thusly it just becomes "Oh I think I'll kill Nerull today" because of no sense of challenge in the world. What are the opinions of fellow DMs on starting campaigns this high?
TinManFan 01-29-06, 11:52 AM	Think of it as a challenge to come up w/ all of that. Sure, a friend of yours could come up with some dwarf fighter w/ piles of feats, but you have a character. And for the record, there's nothing wrong with a Bard pumping out a +20 morale bonus with his Inspire ability. Adds enough to make a Power Attacker very happy with a greatsword.
halaster 01-29-06, 12:07 PM	i had a friend who tried to run a lvl 45 game. we had a rakasha wizard, strait druid, 2 weapon ranger, and a demi lich ceric capible of casting 6 epic spells a day. lets just say the game fell apart in 2 sesions. w. no personallity to the pc's it cant be played.
tompulsar 01-29-06, 12:18 PM	I stand by my original advice from this thread... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=577207
Tyler Do'Urden 01-29-06, 01:05 PM	Don't be silly. If he's starting at 30th level, he probably doesn't care about your backstory. Just a believable origin with details that can be filled in later is fine. Realistically, if you played a campaign from level 1 to level 30, you'd have so many stories, you'd lose track of them all. So it's perfectly reasonable for him to just make things up and have you make Wisdom or Knowledge checks. "My entire village was demolished for your little scuffle with the dragon. I demand satisfaction!" "I'm terribly sorry, could you be a bit more specific?" "It was a black dragon." ::nodding: "Yes, more specific please." "It ate my mother and then cursed you all to live a thousand lives with no genitals." "...forrest town or desert oasis?" "Oasis." "Oh yes that one! That was fun. Well, here's a bag of holding with 3000 platinum and three favors. That should buy your entire town ten times over. Have a nice day, farm boy!"
shadowfox628 01-29-06, 01:44 PM	Look, let me tell you something... If a single level 10 Rogue/Assassin can kill a level 30 Monk/Drunken Master in a single hit, then there should be no problem playing as Epics. Worst comes to worst, your friend revises the description of Tarisques (... can't spell it) from "only one" to "travels in groups of 3." That, or things will get crazy... Though I doubt they'll kill the gods.. They'd probibly more likely to gang up on the Epics than to submit themselves to death one-by-one.
Chosen01 02-04-06, 10:23 AM	I don’t know if I can change your opinion of epic gaming but here goes… You can find rollplayers at any level of the game besides epic level, just visit the Character Optimization forum for proof of this. On the other hand, you can certainly roleplay at epic levels. Creating backgound fluff for epic characters certainly needs more work and a lot of imagination but it can be done properly. I invite you guys to visit Dicefreaks (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/index.php) (an online DnD community) and check out some of the fan made creations particularly The Gates of Hell (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88). Keep an open mind and come hangout with us :)
Vaalingrade Ashland 02-04-06, 02:06 PM	My personal view on the topic is that rolling any character that high is impossible because the rich history behind any given character; including items, friends, and enemies gained through the YEARS (ahem); could never result in a few die rolls and random magic items, and thusly it just becomes "Oh I think I'll kill Nerull today" because of no sense of challenge in the world. 1) You show both a bias and an ignorance of Epic play. Creating a good history for an epic characters is just as possible as creating one for any other character at any other level. And if the world doesn't hold challenge for the Epic characters, your DM is just as ignorant about Epic play and shamefully so. 2) I don't even beleive this game exists. In the past weeks, you've managed to find your way into a game that contains one of the most common hot button issues on the boards; destroying the sacred cow magic missle, players who cheat up thier stats, and now Epic play. I will not be surpised when I come back from gaming this weekend (With my level 26 bard and my level 6 rogue) to find you've written another flame bait thread about an alignment shift or an assassin maybe some undead too.
Rivelstraz 02-04-06, 02:12 PM	Only once I've seen almost-epic characters, and it was with me DMing. 3 years old campaign. In the end it was tedious and boring. The story was rich, but eventually everything was about combat. Long and tedious combats, with both sides hitting for absurd amounts of damage and the clerics healing all of it without much problems. I had to cut it. When the character are low level, climb, jump, etc. are interesting, since they don't have much resources to overcome it. Once they are high level, most skills become almost useless. Why do you want to sneak when you can turn whole party invisible and silent? Or fly? Or teleport? Or a long etc. They have a great story behind the characters, so I'm going to weaken them somehow.
imperialjunkie 02-04-06, 03:01 PM	Based on the two threads I've seen you [Tillie the Pirate] start, there seems to be a definite case of power hunger going on in your group. But hey... if you all want to play lvl 30 characters or lvl 12 characters with 58 Str, then have a blast. It can be fun to come up with pre-existing epic backstories. This can really satisfy the closet novelists who like to make up their character's stories but who are foiled by pesky DMs who won't railroad as desired. [/tongue-in-cheek] Another answer to the 'problem' is high LA templates. Make a Astral Deva PC with a few other templates slapped on, and you can easily have a high epic PC without epic class levels.
Vaalingrade Ashland 02-04-06, 07:28 PM	Based on the two threads I've seen you [Tillie the Pirate] start, there seems to be a definite case of power hunger going on in your group. I'm fairly certain none of those situations actually happened.
dungeonmasterblog 02-04-06, 07:31 PM	I've always thought it's best to start low and I always run my campaigns where the characters are first level. When that happens, the characters and players grow into the campaign. If you drop high level characters on them from the start, they never get a chance to grow with the character. Which is probably why I enjoyed Baldurs Gate I better then the II. There's something exciting about moving up from first to second level. Not as much when it's 30th to 31st. Dungeon Master http://www.dungeonmasterblog.com