Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gellion 09-05-04, 12:01 AM	Besides the obvious things(speech mostly), what are some more modern things tha are used in your game?
Kalanth 09-05-04, 12:17 AM	I have some very advance areas in my world, and they use varying degrees of technology. The gnomes have Airships (Zeplins) and devices of that nature, and all the advanced races have access to Flintlock Muskets and other such firearms.
deadDMwalking 09-05-04, 12:35 AM	Political structures - Even if the official government is a monarchy, people are very accepting of democracy is local government. Many mayors are elected. Medicine - Even when magical healing isn't used, no one tries bleeding PCs or worries about their humours not being in balance. Economies - Capitalism rules. Very little "bartering"....
VirgilCaine 09-05-04, 01:09 AM	Lets see...governments are evil, almost all of them. There are large areas governed by anarchies or pseudo-anarchic "governments." I'm also considering air rifles, not gunpowder weapons to add to my world.
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 01:23 AM	Political structures - Even if the official government is a monarchy, people are very accepting of democracy is local government. Many mayors are elected. I'm fairly certain that democracy has been around since at least Roman times, which is hardly "modern." I'm just nitpicking, though. :) Well, while I haven't bothered actually designing them yet, there are a few working blaster guns in my world. All but two of them are in a place so old and so secure that in the history of the civilized world, no one has ever seen the inside. One of the two is buried in a Pompeian volcanic eruption. The last one is floating around somewhere, not being used (cause no one knows what it is or how it works). It's probably sitting on the shelves of some library or at the bottom of a river or being used as a paperweight.
VirgilCaine 09-05-04, 01:28 AM	It's probably sitting on the shelves of some library or at the bottom of a river or being used as a paperweight. Stone axe and hammer heads were thought to be relics of gods/heroes/elves/etc. in medieval times, and were worn as protective charms against disease, being struck by lightning, etc. Hmmmmmmm..... I like this...a small, brass, elongated, cup-like item, worn around the neck. Markings in ancient Common dialect on bottom read a nonsensical word-number combination. Rumored to protect against violence on the person.
Gellion 09-05-04, 01:36 AM	Stone axe and hammer heads were thought to be relics of gods/heroes/elves/etc. in medieval times, and were worn as protective charms against disease, being struck by lightning, etc. Hmmmmmmm..... I like this...a small, brass, elongated, cup-like item, worn around the neck. Markings in ancient Common dialect on bottom read a nonsensical word-number combination. Rumored to protect against violence on the person. Ummm, I feel stupid but what is that supposed to be? :confused:
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 01:54 AM	Ummm, I feel stupid but what is that supposed to be? :confused: "Non-sensical word/number combination"? I'm guessing "Smith and Wesson .357 mag" :D
Gellion 09-05-04, 01:55 AM	"Non-sensical word/number combination"? I'm guessing "Smith and Wesson .357 mag" :D No the item, I dont think one waers a gun around their neck.
VirgilCaine 09-05-04, 02:01 AM	No the item, I dont think one waers a gun around their neck. It's an empty cartridge casing--spent brass/steel/plastic/whatever. Non-sensical word/number combination"? I'm guessing "Smith and Wesson .357 mag" "Wildey .458" would counteract that one, though. ;) My next group of PCs just found a very interesting amulet... :D
Kalanth 09-05-04, 02:17 AM	Oh I get it. An item of lost history, or a possible trinket from the future. Not knowing what it is, the superstitious side comes forth and the people turn it into an amulet. Thats geneous, and could easily lead to new plot lines.
Dash Branaghan 09-05-04, 04:39 AM	I'm still building my homebrew, but one area that I have will have a very Gothic "Jack the Ripper" London feel to it, complete with cobblestone streets, lamps that burn with a continual light spell to ward of the darkness (the big wrought iron lampstands with the glass panes in them), stuff like that. I need to research a bit more into the whole concept of Victorian era England, but I remember talking with Doug C and coming up with ideas for an alternate world based on Victorian style, with steam engines being run by Steam Mephits, stuff like that. But I like the idea of the fashions and system of Gothic London. Dash
Mister Mayhem 09-05-04, 05:19 AM	I'm still building my homebrew, but one area that I have will have a very Gothic "Jack the Ripper" London feel to it, complete with cobblestone streets, lamps that burn with a continual light spell to ward of the darkness (the big wrought iron lampstands with the glass panes in them), stuff like that. I need to research a bit more into the whole concept of Victorian era England, but I remember talking with Doug C and coming up with ideas for an alternate world based on Victorian style, with steam engines being run by Steam Mephits, stuff like that. But I like the idea of the fashions and system of Gothic London. Dash Its moving slightly off-topic, but these books are excellent source material: The Anubis Gates, Tim Powers The Great Train Robbery, Michael Crichton Dracula, Bram Stoker The Alchemist's Cat, Robyn Jarvis Gallows Thief, Benard Cornwell Also, try these websites: http://www.victorianlondon.org/ http://www.casebook.org/ ******* Interestingly, this links in nicely to what is probably the most common anachronism to be found in D&D and fantasy fiction: A city watch or other equivalent of a modern day police force.
Dash Branaghan 09-05-04, 05:33 AM	Its moving slightly off-topic, but these books are excellent source material: The Anubis Gates, Tim Powers The Great Train Robbery, Michael Crichton Dracula, Bram Stoker The Alchemist's Cat, Robyn Jarvis Gallows Thief, Benard Cornwell Also, try these websites: http://www.victorianlondon.org/ http://www.casebook.org/ ******* Interestingly, this links in nicely to what is probably the most common anachronism to be found in D&D and fantasy fiction: A city watch or other equivalent of a modern day police force. Thanks for the tips...I have already slept through Bram Stoker's Dracula (dear God, but that book did nothing for me) and I read Crichton as well...I will definitely check out the websites. Mentioning Dracula reminded me of another device...the magical movie machine that broadcasts illusions on a big sheet of white cloth while a halfling bard plays scary organ music. *chuckle* Thanks again. Dash
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 06:13 AM	I'm still building my homebrew, but one area that I have will have a very Gothic "Jack the Ripper" London feel to it, complete with cobblestone streets, lamps that burn with a continual light spell to ward of the darkness (the big wrought iron lampstands with the glass panes in them), stuff like that. I need to research a bit more into the whole concept of Victorian era England, but I remember talking with Doug C and coming up with ideas for an alternate world based on Victorian style, with steam engines being run by Steam Mephits, stuff like that. But I like the idea of the fashions and system of Gothic London. Dash Sounds a lot like Thief 3, actually.
angryman 09-05-04, 06:19 AM	I use modern systems of government a little too- the Elves are Communists, the main human kingdom is feudal, the Dwarves are very similar to WW2 Switzerland (gov't wise) and the dodgy humans are a mix of fascists and demon worshippers.
Dash Branaghan 09-05-04, 06:47 AM	Sounds a lot like Thief 3, actually. Hmmmmm....everything is sounding like something to you, eh Fixxxer? I have never heard of Thief 3...is that a videogame or something?
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 07:20 AM	Hmmmmm....everything is sounding like something to you, eh Fixxxer? I have never heard of Thief 3...is that a videogame or something? It's more than a video game. It's hours upon hours of your life spent in complete and total fascination. It's sleepless nights and red-eyed mornings. It's case after case of beloved mountain dew washed down like so much honrey mead. It's...it's...... ...wait a second! I'm married! I can go crawl in bed next to a beautiful woman who is actually willing to be seen in public with me. Screw you guys, I've got a date with my queen of morning breath!
Dash Branaghan 09-05-04, 07:29 AM	It's more than a video game. It's hours upon hours of your life spent in complete and total fascination. It's sleepless nights and red-eyed mornings. It's case after case of beloved mountain dew washed down like so much honrey mead. It's...it's...... ...wait a second! I'm married! I can go crawl in bed next to a beautiful woman who is actually willing to be seen in public with me. Screw you guys, I've got a date with my queen of morning breath! I was about to say get some sleep...sheesh....it's a wee bit early for you to be on the boards, isn't it? Must be the shortbus hockey helmet nightmare again. *whips up a chihuahua chip cookies for da man* :cookie:
deadDMwalking 09-05-04, 10:34 AM	On the subject of democracies - While existing as a form of governemnt in ancient Greece, they were not what we would consider a modern democracy. First of all, most people were not allowed to vote. Only men who were not slaves were given the right to vote. That was a smaller section of the population than you might expect. And my point was really more along the lines of in a system that generally assumes feudalism, I play very differently (I think most people do). I mean, it would suck if every lord were telling your players that they can kill monsters, but they can't carry a sword in his presence, or leave his territory ever. But I guess that brings me to another point. Women and men are treated almost exactly the same. Women are just as free to be adventureres, or join the city watch. They still make up a smaller percentage, but their is very little institutionalized sexism.
The Shaman 09-05-04, 12:02 PM	One culture has black powder and firearms, but since I enforce strict penalties on how long these weapons take to reload, 2d8 every sixth round isn't very appealing so they remain novelties among adventurers. There are republics with limited franchise, but since that was Rome at one time, I don't know that that's really all that modern. There is a democracy as well, a true democracy in which every person of the age of majority is expected to participate, but this is a pretty small community of villages living on the fringe of the most civilized area of the continent - it's something of a utopian community. Gnomes in my game are more like the trad elves in D&D - they are the masters of magic, and are the most closely in tune with the natural world of the campaign. They do not exhibit either higher levels of technology or magi-tech as envisioned in the WotC canon. One of the human cultures exhibits what would be considered the highest levels of technological advancement in the world (Middle Ages, by way of comparison), but it tends to be focused on military accomplishment rather than quality of life, so the benefit to the common folk is minimal - this same culture has the strongest bias against magic, however, so a union of the two is rare. Another human culture excels in magic, and in their scattered cities you're more likely to find things like lanterns lit with continual flame and so on than anywhere else in the world. The one unusal technology adopted by humanoids is that kuo-toa are skilled with hydraulics - water cannons make up an interesting part of their arsenal, and water traps in their caverns are common.
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 01:35 PM	Must be the shortbus hockey helmet nightmare again. It haunts my dreams... :weep:
psionichamster 09-05-04, 01:45 PM	One culture has black powder and firearms, but since I enforce strict penalties on how long these weapons take to reload, 2d8 every sixth round isn't very appealing so they remain novelties among adventurers. while i can appreciate the idea that firearms should NOT be used by adventurers...your timing is a bit on the slow side...in the American Revolutionary War, a good musketman (or rifleman if you were lucky) could get off 3 shots in a minute...that works out to shoot, reload in 3rds, shoot in 5th, reload in 3rds, shoot in 9th...etc... in reality, thats being a little charitable, as that would allow for a 4th shot in the 3 cycle of the above, but that's pretty academic, ON SUBJECT***** Roads! good, cobbled streets in the cities and decent flagstone "highways" for trade caravans standardized monies: no dubloons, florens, crowns, etc...everythings in PP, GP, SP, and CP sewers...well, they're more like the TMNT sewers..huge, slimy, and filled with monsters locks/manacles/lockpicks/good steel/large quantities of glass/well made natural-fibered clothing...the list goes on, and most of these are in the PHB! the hamster
Kiri Sittori 09-05-04, 01:54 PM	Heh... the closest I've actually come to modernising games has been this: 1. Basing campaign ideas on Skies of Arcadia (Dreamcast/Gamecube RPG that focused heavily on airships in a steampunk milieu.) 2. One nation in my current campaign setting (under development) is internally communistic and Swiss-militaristic: -All citizens, having seen their third summer, shall begin to be trained in the letter and the number (this was for 2e, where literacy was not assumed; but you can assume on a decent modern level, say, a merchant's level of understanding, if possible.) -All citizens, having seen their tenth summer, shall be trained in the yeoman's science. (In short, all citizens are required to train with crossbows, short bows or long bows, as well as with one melee arm.) -All citizens shall learn their employment and one other, that the sad loss of one member may not bring the sadder loss of his niche. -Each citizen shall count as his hire, for services rendered to other citizens, the services of the other citizens. Likewise, the price each citizen pays for the services of other citizens, shall be his own service. -However, foreigners shall have the price of citizens' services, according to common trade custom and the desire to realise profit. -Profit, being realised from trade with foreigners, shall be used first to support the community according to its need; second, to reserve surplus for the barren seasons; and third, as profit to be enjoyed by all.
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 02:06 PM	while i can appreciate the idea that firearms should NOT be used by adventurers...your timing is a bit on the slow side...in the American Revolutionary War, a good musketman (or rifleman if you were lucky) could get off 3 shots in a minute...that works out to shoot, reload in 3rds, shoot in 5th, reload in 3rds, shoot in 9th...etc... in reality, thats being a little charitable, as that would allow for a 4th shot in the 3 cycle of the above, but that's pretty academic, This is true, but you're assuming he's talking about late-era powder firearms, such as flintlocks or Kentucky Long Rifles (well, mabey not long rifles...). It's entirely possible that he's talking about simple handcannons or early matchlocks.
The Shaman 09-05-04, 03:49 PM	It's entirely possible that he's talking about simple handcannons or early matchlocks. Give that man the vile :cookie: of his choice! Thirty seconds is a fairly generous reload rate for weapons of that era. Plus, it's an Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Guns are available, but they tend to be used more by massed troops than individual adventurers. Other techs... Roads? Yes. Saddle with stirrups? Yes, in two cultures. Wheeled plow? Only in one culture. Water wheels? Yes. Windmills? Yes. Printing press? No. Telescope? No. Heliograph? Yes, but very simple - silver mirror, not glass.
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 08:46 PM	Give that man the vile :cookie: of his choice! YAY! I DUDITZ!
Ebb_Lurecia 09-05-04, 08:50 PM	My campaign world has firearms (pistols and muskets...those mentioned in the DMG), as well as steam locomotives and airships. It's a Final Fantasy 7-esque setting, though not quite as advanced.
Ebb_Lurecia 09-05-04, 08:53 PM	Thirty seconds is a fairly generous reload rate for weapons of that era. Bear in mind that it takes a standard action to reload a firearm, which is longer than a move-equivalent. It probably takes more than 30 seconds...probably closer to 45. Still generous, but more understandable. I think I've read stuff about how it took about a minute for even the fastest soldiers to reload muskets.
Fixxxer 09-05-04, 08:57 PM	I think I've read stuff about how it took about a minute for even the fastest soldiers to reload muskets. That's according to the particular musket you're talking about. If you're talking about later-era muskets, such as during the beginning of the American Civil War, then psionichamster's estimate of an average of 3 shots per minute is dead on.
VirgilCaine 09-05-04, 10:52 PM	Interestingly, this links in nicely to what is probably the most common anachronism to be found in D&D and fantasy fiction: A city watch or other equivalent of a modern day police force. Annoying. But, that is what all those 1st level clerics are out doing some of the time, I suppose.
Rimmy 09-06-04, 01:08 AM	Its moving slightly off-topic, but these books are excellent source material: The Anubis Gates, Tim Powers The Great Train Robbery, Michael Crichton Dracula, Bram Stoker The Alchemist's Cat, Robyn Jarvis Gallows Thief, Benard Cornwell Along with Mister Mayhem's excellent suggestions Dash, you might want to spare a glance for The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling. It's a steampunk book, but it does detail London at a time you're probably looking at during a bit of an environmental disaster with some interesting quirks from having the cybernetic age everywhere in the form of steam-driven punchcard readers. As for Thief 3 - it's actually an excellent bit of flavour. So were the previous two installations of the game, but this one just came out in May so you get to see it with much better colour. http://www.gigex.com/gp/dlexe.asp?packageid=0078600447&gameid=2546&source=00001&sourcelist=
Leibel 09-07-04, 03:10 PM	Banks, Printing Presses, Cement and real clocks are standard in my world. Although bank robbing is tough w/ permanent alarms, and other spells cast on them.
VirgilCaine 09-07-04, 06:53 PM	Cement Cement isn't modern. The Romans and the Indiand of the Indus River Valley both used cement.
Fixxxer 09-07-04, 07:20 PM	Cement isn't modern. The Romans and the Indiand of the Indus River Valley both used cement. Correct. In fact, the reason why the coliseum of Rome has stood the test of time so well is because it has a foundation made from Roman cement...a mixture of mud, water, ground stone and volcanic ash.
deadDMwalking 09-07-04, 07:50 PM	But of course, the secret to making cement was lost to the Europeans for about 1500 years (depending on which part of Europe you live in). And most of the rest of the world never discovered it. Its common use, however, must be assumed from what many people do with their fantasy architecture. That or magic, anyway.
Fixxxer 09-07-04, 09:33 PM	That or magic, anyway. That seems to be the typical fallback for most people. "How could the elves create a building that all, yet that slender?" "Ummm...it's magic." "How do the dwarves survive underground without suffocating?" "Ummm...it's magic." "For the love of god and all that is holy...my a-nus is BLEEDING!!!!" "Ummm...it's magic." WTF?? We can't say ****?!?
VirgilCaine 09-08-04, 11:59 AM	But of course, the secret to making cement was lost to the Europeans for about 1500 years (depending on which part of Europe you live in). And most of the rest of the world never discovered it. Its common use, however, must be assumed from what many people do with their fantasy architecture. That or magic, anyway. True, but the point is that cement is not "modern" technology--not like interchangeable parts or something.