"Modifying" magic items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Modifying" magic items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
claypigeons
09-18-06, 03:55 AM This has never really been a problem or issue any campaign or group i've been a part of, but I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine concerning his newest group.

His DM doesnt allow any variation in magic items. Every magic item a certain type looks exactly like any other. Bags of holding are identical. He even goes so far as too make all magic weapons exactly the same.

I've never really been stuck on aesthetics. If you want your sword to look like a jagged tooth coming out of the palm of a dragon claw, so be it. If you want your mask of lies to be unique, good for you. If it doesnt change the mechanics of the item, why worry about it.

How do other DMs feel about this? Do you allow your players to make the descriptions of items they create and such? "Discovered" treasure is another story...
Han Duo
09-18-06, 08:58 AM I have never yet have a player create a magic item, but I would allow them to modify it, if the properties of the item would not be affected. For example, they may create black bags of holding instead of the usual brown ones, or create a backpack instead of the normal bag, but making it so big that an ox cart can disappear into it is out of the question.

Basically I'm always in favor of allowing the players maximum leeway in exercising their creativity, and playing the sort of game that they will enjoy most.
Righter8
09-18-06, 09:30 AM Appearance, as long as it doesn't affect the magical properties of the item, are fine. As for creating magic items, as long as the price is paid for them in money and XP, and adjusted based on certain favorable conditions, I am fine with that too.
Some DMs are just **** about piddly things. IMO, how do two magic items that do the same thing (assume a Hewards Handy Haversack) look identical if created by two different people, who have different classes, and who live thousands of miles apart? It doesn't make sense to me.
CzarGarrett
09-18-06, 09:34 AM Players can make descriptions for anything they'd like. The decription means nothing, the mechanics of said item is what is important.

Whether that Longswod +1 is plain steel with a ordinary black pommel or a gold-inlay black steel blade with a leather-wrapped handle and dragon form cross-piece, it doesn't matter. Its still just a +1 sword.
Millennium
09-18-06, 09:56 AM Generally speaking, I require items of the same type to have something in common, as a means of binding the magic into the item. The most common theme is gemstones: items dealing with fire, for example, need to incorporate at least one ruby somewhere, as this gem (commonly associated with fire) helps to bind the power of flame to the item. However, as long as you satisfy that requirement in some way, you can make the item look like whatever you want. For the flaming sword, the ruby could be just a plain gem in the pommel, the eye in a dragon's-head guard, or just about anything else: an epic +7 flaming burst sword of water-subtype dread might even be a sword hewn from a single enormous ruby.

In most cases,you could even conceal the requirement, so that it doesn't show visibly on the item. For the flaming sword, perhaps the ruby is hidden in the pommel with plating over it. The only exception to this -and it's a rare one- is items which incorporate holy symbols: these need to be visibly displayed.
Xykon
09-19-06, 11:27 PM I've never really been stuck on aesthetics. If you want your sword to look like a jagged tooth coming out of the palm of a dragon claw, so be it. If you want your mask of lies to be unique, good for you. If it doesnt change the mechanics of the item, why worry about it.
Yeah, me neither. Although there are times when there are extra-bits that the player would need on items (note: not just magic items) and i would usually just see if its reasonable and maybe get the player to pay extra gp for that to happen.

i.e. we had a ranger/rogue who wanted a cloak covered with leaves to help him hide in the forest. I told him if he is willing to pay 500 gp he can have it and it gives him +1 competence bonus to hide checks made in the forest.

His DM doesnt allow any variation in magic items. Every magic item a certain type looks exactly like any other. Bags of holding are identical. He even goes so far as too make all magic weapons exactly the same. Big problem i can see here. Since all items are exactly the same, down to the ACME(TM) logo, then during your interaction with NPC (combat or otherwise), you can tell whether the item is magical or otherwise. Stuff the jewels in pommel or what not, as long as it has this design, its a +1 sword!.
Toloran
09-19-06, 11:37 PM Most magic items my players find don't look like much until you identify them, however, sometimes I randomly describe something cool even though its a +1 sword since it keeps the players interested in what they find.

I've never had ANY of my players craft a magical item so I can't really say much in regards to that.
Myree
09-20-06, 12:51 AM I go with the idea that the artificier starts with "art" point of view -- that creator is going to want to put a little "style" into the work, even if it doesn't change any function. And this isn't a Henry Ford assembly line knocking out those Bags of Holding, either, so there are natually differences in material, colors, etc.

In fact, I've always leaned towards mixing it up a little -- even back in the old AD&D 1.0, I was letting them find Flame Brand daggers or axes and swords that granted the ability to comprehend languages or cure light wounds to the wielder, etc. The container might be different, but the power was the same. Kinda along the same line that every caster's Magic Missle should really be unique to the caster -- there was a good Dragon Mag article a number of years called "The Color Of Magic", I believe (sorry, that's top of the head) that really brought this point home to me -- whether it looks like a Star Wars blaster shot from the finger or the caster slashes her dagger and a matching slash appears on the target, the damage (aka "effect") stays the same and doesn't harm game balance at all. There was another good Dragon Mag article like this about how to better describe swords and such (the tag line was something like "I wave the kris blade at the opening... ah, it glows blue, so I know it will easily part it's scaly flesh" -- sorry, all I can think of on it).

This all adds flavor to the game and keeps it interesting for both you and your players without having to worry too much about juggling balance all the time or giving away too much too easily.
Vaalingrade Ashland
09-20-06, 01:51 AM I'm overjoyed when my players care what thier gear looks like.
Reighnhell
09-20-06, 02:16 AM ...wow..

I never ceases to amaze me how some folks manage to suck all the style and creativity out of what is essentially a game of make believe with rules.

For me at least, detail is part of the fun. I enjoy adding an amount of flair to pretty much every element of the game. Thats not a +3 Icy Burst 9 life stealer. thats Cold Comfort, a elven long sword with the inscription "that what feeds me is that which consumes me" written in elven on the blade.
Style counts in fantasy and the idea of anything being generic in a good game offends me on some level. Otherwise its a rather dull dice based combat sim and there are enough video games that accomplish that.
ressurrector
09-20-06, 05:25 AM I've got a character of mine wearing Mechanus Plate (armor from Planar handbook, consists of gears)
He describes it as inscribled with elven letters, and they say different things when he's in a different position or stance (as the gears turn and line up differently).

To be honest, I wish I could come up with stuff like that for magic items.
Sereno
09-20-06, 11:42 AM ...wow..

I never ceases to amaze me how some folks manage to suck all the style and creativity out of what is essentially a game of make believe with rules.

For me at least, detail is part of the fun. I enjoy adding an amount of flair to pretty much every element of the game. <example snipped>

Style counts in fantasy and the idea of anything being generic in a good game offends me on some level. Otherwise its a rather dull dice based combat sim and there are enough video games that accomplish that.

I'll completely second this ...wow...

The idea of playing in a world where every sword looks exactly the same (what, generic stenciled letters "sword +1" on the non-descript blade?) fills me with despair.

DnD is ALL about the imagination ... I would never play in a campaign where imagination was frowned upon.

Thinking up interesting ways to describe things that don't really exist IS the fun of DnD!
pres_man
09-20-06, 11:55 AM Occasionally, I will embed some gems into a weapon or other item, increasing the value of that item (+1 longsword with a gem might be worth 2800 gp for example).

I have no problem with PCs making unique items or hiring someone to make a unique item, yet I also see no problem for the average item to be identical to others (usually a very bland design so as not to offend any possible customers).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
claypigeons 09-18-06, 03:55 AM	This has never really been a problem or issue any campaign or group i've been a part of, but I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine concerning his newest group. His DM doesnt allow any variation in magic items. Every magic item a certain type looks exactly like any other. Bags of holding are identical. He even goes so far as too make all magic weapons exactly the same. I've never really been stuck on aesthetics. If you want your sword to look like a jagged tooth coming out of the palm of a dragon claw, so be it. If you want your mask of lies to be unique, good for you. If it doesnt change the mechanics of the item, why worry about it. How do other DMs feel about this? Do you allow your players to make the descriptions of items they create and such? "Discovered" treasure is another story...
Han Duo 09-18-06, 08:58 AM	I have never yet have a player create a magic item, but I would allow them to modify it, if the properties of the item would not be affected. For example, they may create black bags of holding instead of the usual brown ones, or create a backpack instead of the normal bag, but making it so big that an ox cart can disappear into it is out of the question. Basically I'm always in favor of allowing the players maximum leeway in exercising their creativity, and playing the sort of game that they will enjoy most.
Righter8 09-18-06, 09:30 AM	Appearance, as long as it doesn't affect the magical properties of the item, are fine. As for creating magic items, as long as the price is paid for them in money and XP, and adjusted based on certain favorable conditions, I am fine with that too. Some DMs are just **** about piddly things. IMO, how do two magic items that do the same thing (assume a Hewards Handy Haversack) look identical if created by two different people, who have different classes, and who live thousands of miles apart? It doesn't make sense to me.
CzarGarrett 09-18-06, 09:34 AM	Players can make descriptions for anything they'd like. The decription means nothing, the mechanics of said item is what is important. Whether that Longswod +1 is plain steel with a ordinary black pommel or a gold-inlay black steel blade with a leather-wrapped handle and dragon form cross-piece, it doesn't matter. Its still just a +1 sword.
Millennium 09-18-06, 09:56 AM	Generally speaking, I require items of the same type to have something in common, as a means of binding the magic into the item. The most common theme is gemstones: items dealing with fire, for example, need to incorporate at least one ruby somewhere, as this gem (commonly associated with fire) helps to bind the power of flame to the item. However, as long as you satisfy that requirement in some way, you can make the item look like whatever you want. For the flaming sword, the ruby could be just a plain gem in the pommel, the eye in a dragon's-head guard, or just about anything else: an epic +7 flaming burst sword of water-subtype dread might even be a sword hewn from a single enormous ruby. In most cases,you could even conceal the requirement, so that it doesn't show visibly on the item. For the flaming sword, perhaps the ruby is hidden in the pommel with plating over it. The only exception to this -and it's a rare one- is items which incorporate holy symbols: these need to be visibly displayed.
Xykon 09-19-06, 11:27 PM	I've never really been stuck on aesthetics. If you want your sword to look like a jagged tooth coming out of the palm of a dragon claw, so be it. If you want your mask of lies to be unique, good for you. If it doesnt change the mechanics of the item, why worry about it. Yeah, me neither. Although there are times when there are extra-bits that the player would need on items (note: not just magic items) and i would usually just see if its reasonable and maybe get the player to pay extra gp for that to happen. i.e. we had a ranger/rogue who wanted a cloak covered with leaves to help him hide in the forest. I told him if he is willing to pay 500 gp he can have it and it gives him +1 competence bonus to hide checks made in the forest. His DM doesnt allow any variation in magic items. Every magic item a certain type looks exactly like any other. Bags of holding are identical. He even goes so far as too make all magic weapons exactly the same. Big problem i can see here. Since all items are exactly the same, down to the ACME(TM) logo, then during your interaction with NPC (combat or otherwise), you can tell whether the item is magical or otherwise. Stuff the jewels in pommel or what not, as long as it has this design, its a +1 sword!.
Toloran 09-19-06, 11:37 PM	Most magic items my players find don't look like much until you identify them, however, sometimes I randomly describe something cool even though its a +1 sword since it keeps the players interested in what they find. I've never had ANY of my players craft a magical item so I can't really say much in regards to that.
Myree 09-20-06, 12:51 AM	I go with the idea that the artificier starts with "art" point of view -- that creator is going to want to put a little "style" into the work, even if it doesn't change any function. And this isn't a Henry Ford assembly line knocking out those Bags of Holding, either, so there are natually differences in material, colors, etc. In fact, I've always leaned towards mixing it up a little -- even back in the old AD&D 1.0, I was letting them find Flame Brand daggers or axes and swords that granted the ability to comprehend languages or cure light wounds to the wielder, etc. The container might be different, but the power was the same. Kinda along the same line that every caster's Magic Missle should really be unique to the caster -- there was a good Dragon Mag article a number of years called "The Color Of Magic", I believe (sorry, that's top of the head) that really brought this point home to me -- whether it looks like a Star Wars blaster shot from the finger or the caster slashes her dagger and a matching slash appears on the target, the damage (aka "effect") stays the same and doesn't harm game balance at all. There was another good Dragon Mag article like this about how to better describe swords and such (the tag line was something like "I wave the kris blade at the opening... ah, it glows blue, so I know it will easily part it's scaly flesh" -- sorry, all I can think of on it). This all adds flavor to the game and keeps it interesting for both you and your players without having to worry too much about juggling balance all the time or giving away too much too easily.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-20-06, 01:51 AM	I'm overjoyed when my players care what thier gear looks like.
Reighnhell 09-20-06, 02:16 AM	...wow.. I never ceases to amaze me how some folks manage to suck all the style and creativity out of what is essentially a game of make believe with rules. For me at least, detail is part of the fun. I enjoy adding an amount of flair to pretty much every element of the game. Thats not a +3 Icy Burst 9 life stealer. thats Cold Comfort, a elven long sword with the inscription "that what feeds me is that which consumes me" written in elven on the blade. Style counts in fantasy and the idea of anything being generic in a good game offends me on some level. Otherwise its a rather dull dice based combat sim and there are enough video games that accomplish that.
ressurrector 09-20-06, 05:25 AM	I've got a character of mine wearing Mechanus Plate (armor from Planar handbook, consists of gears) He describes it as inscribled with elven letters, and they say different things when he's in a different position or stance (as the gears turn and line up differently). To be honest, I wish I could come up with stuff like that for magic items.
Sereno 09-20-06, 11:42 AM	...wow.. I never ceases to amaze me how some folks manage to suck all the style and creativity out of what is essentially a game of make believe with rules. For me at least, detail is part of the fun. I enjoy adding an amount of flair to pretty much every element of the game. <example snipped> Style counts in fantasy and the idea of anything being generic in a good game offends me on some level. Otherwise its a rather dull dice based combat sim and there are enough video games that accomplish that. I'll completely second this ...wow... The idea of playing in a world where every sword looks exactly the same (what, generic stenciled letters "sword +1" on the non-descript blade?) fills me with despair. DnD is ALL about the imagination ... I would never play in a campaign where imagination was frowned upon. Thinking up interesting ways to describe things that don't really exist IS the fun of DnD!
pres_man 09-20-06, 11:55 AM	Occasionally, I will embed some gems into a weapon or other item, increasing the value of that item (+1 longsword with a gem might be worth 2800 gp for example). I have no problem with PCs making unique items or hiring someone to make a unique item, yet I also see no problem for the average item to be identical to others (usually a very bland design so as not to offend any possible customers).