Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sternenschwinge 05-23-05, 04:42 AM	I like to ask other DM's about their experience with the "Teleport"- Spell. Is their a way to keep players from teleporting out of every critical situation ? :mad: And I'm talking of the selfish kind, who doesn't care about it comrades, if it gets nasty. :( I'm tired of the "some strange magic keeps you from teleporting" excuse. :rolleyes: How do other DM's handle this, without completly kicking the spell out of the game ? :confused: Thank you, sternenschwinge
FriendoftheDork 05-23-05, 05:00 AM	I don't really see the problem with teleport, unless it's actually a problem with your players. If you players keep leaving eachother's PCs behind, that is not a problem with teleport, but a problem with PCs who have no loyalties to eachother. Make sure the PCs have good reason for adventuring together and helping eachother. It's not that hard to bring others when you teleport at all, and we've saved ourself several times with the spell before. That said, avoid trying to prevent the PCs from teleporting unless good reasons (NPCs). NPCs can use Dimensinal Anchor spells to keep the PCs in place if they think they're gonna run, and many places have protection from teleport spells so that you can't just teleport in and out of prisons and citadels.
Flushmaster 05-23-05, 05:12 AM	Give them a reason that they have to finish the fight, preferably quickly. An item they need to get is on the other side of the big baddies that they want to teleport away from, and the chamber it's in has an antimagic field around it specifically to prevent teleporting thieves (in a world with teleportation this is not a weak reason, as long as the antagonists have the means to get that antimagic field in place somehow). Maybe the bad guys are planning to perform a ritual to summon a powerful demon, or plan to kill a hostage, etc, and if the PCs teleport away, even just to heal, for more than a few minutes they'll be unable to prevent such events, fail their quest, and get no reward. Enforce the locational error chance when they teleport; who knows where they're going to wind up? All magic has it's limits. Keep the limits in mind. For one, no spellcaster has an unlimited number of spells per day so they can only teleport away from so many encounters per day; put them up against two more encounters than they have 5th level spells per day. Don't give them experience points for running from the fight; you only get XP for overcoming challenges, not running from them. Even if they take out one or two opponents but end up running from the tougher adversaries that are there, they did not overcome the encounter. Also, unless they assuredly and finally killed those downed opponents, their allies could have dumped a healing potion down their throats after the PCs flee while they still had -8 HP. Or they could have made their stabilization check if the PCs didn't specifically drop them to -10 HP or lower. Either way, they're back up and waiting for payback if and when the PCs return, so the obstacle is still there, hasn't been overcome, and therefor grants no XP. Once they go three straight sessions with no experience points gained (if the teleporting issue is as "gamebreaking" as you suggest it is) then maybe they'll get the hint that they're going to have to actually stick around and finish the job if they want to accomplish anything. Really, this isn't particularly complicated. Teleport is no more "game breaking" than a rogue with greater invisibility cast on them. Next, I guess I should expect somebody complaining about fireball being horrible because it can effect many targets at once from far away, or magic missile being "broken" because it never misses. It's frikkin magic, and it goes by specific rules. Learn the rules and what they mean rather than just the specific effects and you should have a lot less issues. Your brain can be used for more as a DM than a calculator for dice rolls.
Sternenschwinge 05-23-05, 05:14 AM	and many places have protection from teleport spells so that you can't just teleport in and out of prisons and citadels. And how does this work, without turning everything into a magic powercell ? I did find just a few spell's, who can block "teleport", but none who is permanent. What, for example, keeps a small war party from just teleporting into "Waterdeep" and wreck chaos ? And how can I explain such magical "barriers" with the rules, without keeping an epic mage keeping them running ? sternenschwinge
Flushmaster 05-23-05, 05:34 AM	Antimagic field plus permanency. Or a specific spell that only prevents teleportation applied with permanency. Doing this to an entire city is generally impractical, but it can easily be done to a specific room or building (multiple castings may be needed for large buildings/lairs). In some cases it doesn't even need to be permanent. A simple planar binding spell can prevent the party from teleporting out for the duration of most fights. If they've fled from a particular opponent or group thereof once, that/those opponent(s) could easily expect them to do the same again and take appropriate steps to prevent it (as long as they have the means).
Solidcobra 05-23-05, 05:38 AM	I say dimensional anchor. Even if the rules aren't allowing it (i dunno if they do), i'd say it works. Teleport is, basically, a really fast dimensional shift back and forth. A dimensional anchor on EITHER of the two positions should eff it up. Otherwise, consider counterspelling with greater dispel, grappling and gagging to prevent it, using silence as a counterspell, a hidden sniper readying an action and sneak attacking the wizard who casts it for mucho damage, concentration please!
McAbendroth 05-23-05, 05:42 AM	The Hallow/Unhallow spells can be cast to affect an area for 1 year. Dimensional Anchor can be tired to the spell when doing this. 1 year duration is pretty much perm if the location is being used once, even a few times.
Carn Vandoril 05-23-05, 05:45 AM	Give players like that a nickname like: "The flee" or something. Especially if party members die, he should get a 'bad'-rap. Otherwise, it's ok to teleport. The BBEG's will scry and locate to fight another day. antimagicfield works ofcourse, just like counterspelling. I thought I read about a device that disrupted teleporting, making the new location a prison in the same dungeon for instance. (maybe letting the player make a check just like the 'off-target' table. Combined with some extra penalty for being in the dungeon/location/device).
Galaktia 05-23-05, 05:45 AM	Protect prisons and cities from teleport with runes of planar bining set to target anyone who is mid teleport, and it would bind them to the asteral plane and the jaunt them back to this plane outside the walls . it's a high level runic involving planar binding, planar detection and asteral jaunt. P.S your dm you can make something up
Skaughtisch 05-23-05, 06:58 AM	I certainly think all the ideas mentioned here are good ones. Here's another that involves you homebrewing the rules a little. Give Teleportation some sort of heinous cost. A really expensive spell componant or I believe some 3rd Ed spells cost XP. This would make Teleporting just as possible, but the players would begin to think about weighing their costs against the risk. Why waste several thousand gold or xp just to get away from a fight you should probably finish. Just an idea. Laterz, Skaught
Feather 05-23-05, 07:16 AM	The party in my campaign haven't reached a high enough level to misuse teleport yet, and luckily the cleric is too honourable to willingly flee battle. However, if it does become a problem, I'm going to be equipping my NPC villains with ancient tools called Lockdown Orbs. They are similar in size and appearance to thunderstones, but replicate the effect of a high level, increased area dimensional lock. These items are quite expensive if the players want to buy them, and they were originally created as a tool used by the forces of man in battles against demons. I agree it'd be a bit cheesy if you make every area 'protected' from teleport spells. IMO, only high level dungeons and sacred sites would have such a feature.
Sternenschwinge 05-23-05, 07:27 AM	I'm going to be equipping my NPC villains with ancient tools called Lockdown Orbs. They are similar in size and appearance to thunderstones, but replicate the effect of a high level, increased area dimensional lock. These items are quite expensive if the players want to buy them Be careful ! What if the players slay the villains by normal means ? Suddenly they got these powerful artifacts or would this treasure just vanish ? Always think of the consequences when introducing such powerful artifacts ! :eek: In my campaign, I try to be able to explain all things logically to my players, so they don't feel cheated. :cool:
Feather 05-23-05, 07:33 AM	Every major battle will only have one orb, and the evil players will make a point of using it first thing. I doubt my players will manage to slay my boss battle level encounters without the boss even getting a first turn, so it should be fine. Even then, the only people who really need to worry are continuing villain clerics and mages. And they'll just be able to escape the old fashioned way as they send for 'more reinforcements!' while dashing away cackling.
MarkB 05-23-05, 07:39 AM	One option is to not do anything about it and just accept that teleporting into or out of trouble is now an option. If this means the wizard teleporting out at the first sign of trouble and leaving the others in the lurch, that's not your problem - it's a party problem, and likely to be self-correcting one way or another. As for party teleportation, there have been several good suggestions on dealing with it short of trying to effectively 'ban' it, but also bear in mind that turnabout is fair play. If the party bug out from a BBEG's lair mid-battle, don't let them rest up and head back in - have him scry their location and send his spellcaster minion and a couple of pet trolls teleporting into their bedroom back at the inn to 'discourage' them from returning. Not to mention that the BBEG teleporting out just as the fight is turning in the PCs' favour is always annoying - do it a few times and they'll start formulating all sorts of ways around it, which you can then turn around and use on them quite legitimately. And if you still want ways to prevent teleportation out of combat, I think the cheapest method still hasn't been mentioned: Silence spells.
The Simbul 05-23-05, 07:51 AM	And how does this work, without turning everything into a magic powercell? I did find just a few spell's, who can block "teleport", but none who is permanent.Forbiddance blocks all teleportation effects into its area, is a 6th level spell, and has a permanent duration. Hallow and Unhallow effects come with a linked spell that lasts for one year after the casting and can be renewed. The linked spells has it's target, effect, or area changed to instead affect the area of the Hallow/Unhallow spell. Dimensional Anchor as a linked spell will wards against teleportation. Dimensional Lock lasts one day per level, and as per the original errata to Magic of Faerun (which apparently was overlooked when the spell was included in the 3.5 PHB) changed it to a 5th level spell. Teleport Cage causes any teleportation effect used within its radius to redirect the target to a specific location, and any teleport effect used to enter the cage from outside to a random location reachable by the spell. Refusal can block the ability of spellcasters to enter the area, and likewise prevent them from teleporting into it if they fail a save. A Weirdstone, at least one of which could be crafted or purchased by every major city (Metropolis+), block ALL astral and ethereal travel, all scrying effects, and all teleportation effects within a 6 mile radius. Barring all other options, just use the inbuilt restriction on the teleport spell itself: "Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible."What, for example, keeps a small war party from just teleporting into "Waterdeep" and wreck chaos ? And how can I explain such magical "barriers" with the rules, without keeping an epic mage keeping them running ?Most likely a Teleport Cage, which is a spell included in the upcoming sourcebook that is entirely devoted to that city. That and the fact that Waterdeep sits on top of the ruins of an ancient Mythal city, has a powerful guild of arcane spellcasters, and two of it's residents are Chosen of Mystra is all the reasoning needed "within the rules" for teleportations to be barred or restricted in some or all parts of the city. That said, I do find Teleportation effects to be a game killer if abused...which is why I address the comonality of teleportation effects with an equal commonality of anti-teleportation wards. If Magic is prevalent enough in a campaign to allow the players to consistently use a given magical effect, then the NPC's are just as easily going to have access to the means and abilities to counter the consistent use of that given magical effect.
Joe Khol 05-23-05, 07:53 AM	And I'm talking of the selfish kind, who doesn't care about it comrades, if it gets nasty. :( So they're somewhere nice and safe... with little or no XP or treasure and a party of peeved adventurers looking for them? I don't see why the DM should need to do anything.
Wilds 05-23-05, 07:54 AM	anticipate teleport is a fun spell. Nothign like teleporting into a room full of enemies, thinking that it was goign to be empty.
Sternenschwinge 05-23-05, 08:02 AM	So they're somewhere nice and safe... with little or no XP or treasure and a party of peeved adventurers looking for them? I don't see why the DM should need to do anything. No, it's not like that. But the mage, who saves the teleport as his last escape, is now 14- level and the others, without teleportation- abilities, are 12th- level but because they build themselves new chars, don't now about his "cowardly"- attitude. Don't get me wrong, it's ok to flee combat one time or theover, but he most of the time is the only survivor.
Eldurin 05-23-05, 08:12 AM	Okay so here is my idea, that escapes the inevitable anti-magic line of thought. Make a group of really bad high level NPC's of Gityanki. Now these Githyanki of course can plane shift and teleport of themselves. And they are also looking for the artifact that the PC's are seeking, and/or are seeking an item carried by a PC, and/or are looking for vengence against the PC's. Unfortunately they can't trace the PC's except with a Trace Teleport power. Everytime the PC teleports, his enemies draw closer. That would make teleport a last course of resort except in REALLY bad emergencies. Have them decimate the characters and give them a close escape. That would mean that they know the punch before trying anything silly.
High Octane 05-23-05, 08:29 AM	No, it's not like that. But the mage, who saves the teleport as his last escape, is now 14- level and the others, without teleportation- abilities, are 12th- level but because they build themselves new chars, don't now about his "cowardly"- attitude. Don't get me wrong, it's ok to flee combat one time or theover, but he most of the time is the only survivor. And? Sounds like he is the smart one. After all, why fight a battle you cannot win and cannot save? Would his staying around have helped his party win in the end? Inform the player that he as well as the other players could benefit from a contingency plan that would result in EVERYONE'S neck being saved. Why is it believed that a party has to stay together "till death do us part"? Particularly if the party has some neutral characters. Now if the character's alignment is GOOD, then there MAY be some alignment issues, but sticking around to die with your friends when you may be able to get out of there (and possibly get them resurrected) is just idiotic. What you have to ask yourself is, why is it that he is constantly in a situation where everyone BUT him is dying and he is only making it out of it due to teleport?
VirgilCaine 05-23-05, 08:53 AM	"Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible." What, like a volcano? Niagara-sized waterfall? Geysers? Permanently stormy area due to a permanent Control Weather spell?
The Master Weaver Is Warped 05-23-05, 08:53 AM	If it is teleport and not greater teleport, roll the %failure behind a screen and have it fail a few times, landing him in a more dire situation when he's out of spells... :devil: I've had a bad week. Excuse any overly evil ideas that I post for a while. :devil:
MrkGrismer 05-23-05, 09:09 AM	Things like prisons and such can be built with walls (and/or bars) made as wonderous items with continuous dimensional lock spells. But as far as teleporting out of combat to a safe place. Let them, that's part of what being a spell caster of that level is about. Just remember to always have the realistic consequences. If the rest of the party dies then the character in question is going to be answering questions like "What ever happened to your comrades?" and eventually will never be trusted to adventure with anyone else. If the party lives then perhaps they don't trust the character very much anymore. As soon as a character teleports out of combat in order to escape they pretty much loose any chance at treasure and/or experience so all they are usually hurting is themselves. If they think they can teleport away and then teleport back many times they will teleport back into some sort of trap (the aforementioned anticipate teleport from the Complete Arcane (I believe) being useful for that).
snowlynx 05-23-05, 09:16 AM	This surprises me. I was expecting the topic of the thread to be something about how players purposefully teleport to chase after the bad guy, which one of the DMs I know complains about constantly. Let them teleport out of the fights...unless there's some good reason they should not be able to. Give them a good reason to fight the creatures, and they will return when they can. If they're leaving their friends behind, and it means their friends are short one person in the fight, perhaps their friends need to be the ones putting the peer pressure on them- stop running away, work with the group!
siege72 05-23-05, 11:04 AM	Is their a way to keep players from teleporting out of every critical situation ? :mad: If they don't accomplish their goals, teleporting out does nothing. And the BBEG has a chance to rest, reset the traps and heal the minions, and prepare for the party. Don't give the group XP for running away from a fight. Or you could have archers watching the spellcasters, with the readied action to fire when one of them does something magic-looking. :) And I'm talking of the selfish kind, who doesn't care about it comrades, if it gets nasty. :( If a spellcaster teleports away from the rest of the group without a good reason, the other characters are idiots for letting him/her back in. In my games, the spellcaster has apologized for running out of a fight, or promised to return with "help" (ie, teleporting to the nearest magic shop or temple for healing or potions). How do other DM's handle this, without completly kicking the spell out of the game? Teleporting out prevents the group from getting XP. It also gives the enemies a chance to regroup and plan for the party's tactics (since they can teleport out, they can teleport in). Readied archers can ruin a spellcaster's day in general (especially if they have arrows with the wounding effect). And since it's known that the group has a spellcaster, the archers will have a worthwhile target . :D And if the BBEG has enough resources, there's nothing to prevent him from scrying the characters, teleporting himself in while they rest, and attacking them at their weakest.
Joe Khol 05-23-05, 12:40 PM	No, it's not like that. But the mage, who saves the teleport as his last escape, is now 14- level and the others, without teleportation- abilities, are 12th- level but because they build themselves new chars, don't now about his "cowardly"- attitude. Don't get me wrong, it's ok to flee combat one time or theover, but he most of the time is the only survivor. If it is an 'everyone is going to die' situation, fleeing isn't cowardly and teleportation shouldn't be the only way to do it. Sounds like your other players need to learn when to take the 'rapid tactical retreat' option. If the mage is the only survivor 'most of the time', what happened in the few cases where he wasn't?
75RD Drum Clip 05-23-05, 02:29 PM	Dimensional Anchor is one answer, Forbidance is another, Dimensional Lock is yet another off the top of my head. Personally, it seems to me the Wizard in question is not doing anything wrong. Also, being cowardly for a wizard seems typical. Perhaps the others PCs should be more tactful in their battles to avoid being slain so frequently.
Sternenschwinge 05-23-05, 02:32 PM	If it is an 'everyone is going to die' situation, fleeing isn't cowardly and teleportation shouldn't be the only way to do it. Sounds like your other players need to learn when to take the 'rapid tactical retreat' option. If the mage is the only survivor 'most of the time', what happened in the few cases where he wasn't? The whole group was simply resurrected by a higher minion of Tymora (thanks to the chosen cleric of hers in the group) ;)
KoboldSlayer 05-23-05, 02:38 PM	If you are using psionics, there is a power called "redirect teleport". You can redirect an incoming (or outgoing, I think) teleport to a location of your choice. Give an NPC this ability, and characters may not stop teleporting altogether, but they will certainly think twice about it! Especially if they are doing it for self-serving reasons and their self-serving escape attempt lands them somewhere else worse. To protect a city, set up various wards. Just because they are not in the book does not mean they don't exist. Use them sparingly, but there are examples of cities that have their own non-standard protections. (For example, certain spells don't work in Silverymoon...one of them is inbound teleportations. Unless you have a specific magic key, and very few of the city's rulers do, you have to teleport nearby and walk in by the guards.) In one campaign, I removed a few spells that I thought wrecked the game, or changed them if I didn't remove them. One was teleport, which I restricted to only characters who had the travel domain or were a member of wayfarer's guild. This worked okay but was generally met with apathy by my players, who felt I was being too restrictive, so the next campaign I backed off of that particular house rule. Depending on your players, though, that might be a solution. Another solution is to take away your player's ability to teleport with their character by giving them something in exchange, if it is just a problem with one player. For example, give them a suit of armor that has an enchantment they really want on it (moderate fortification or ghost touch or something useful like that), but have the armor bound to the Prime Material so that anyone wearing it can't travel through dimensions like teleport, plane shift, ethereral jaunt, etc. Then they have to decide: nifty armor...or ability to teleport. Hmmmm.... That way, you didn't steal away from them an ability they used to have just because you didn't like the way they were using it. Technically...they gave it up. On a side note: My problem with teleport was not that it was used in combat, which would be okay, but that it removed alot of the overland travel. To me, I think that sometimes the journey is more important than the destination...isn't that how it often is in life?...and having the ability to bypass the journey is just game-destroying not in that it's "broken" but that it takes a certain dimension out of the stories. Mechanics-wise, it's okay. But I just don't think it goes with most fantasy themes if you want them to seem at all like the epics you read or watch. For example: How good would the lord of the rings be if Gandalf teleported Frodo over to Mount Doom? What a wonderful story would the Belgariad make if you skipped the entire journey, which takes the better part of 5 books? And how about if Jason just teleported over to that pesky golden fleece? (Could have saved alot of time not having to build a boat and all. :P ) I don't mind the occassional use of teleport, but I try to encourage my players to walk or ride more than they dash around the planes. Now instead of restricting the teleport spells, though, I've found other ways to encourage this. If they're supposed to learn on the journey, great...they can teleport to the end. But woe unto them if they needed an item, or even just the experience and levels, that they would have found on the way!
MrkGrismer 05-23-05, 02:43 PM	(For example, certain spells don't work in Silverymoon...one of them is inbound teleportations. Unless you have a specific magic key, and very few of the city's rulers do, you have to teleport nearby and walk in by the guards.) Because of the Mythal, details of which are given in Lost Empires of Faerun. It gives the Mythal seed for epic spells.
VirgilCaine 05-23-05, 03:28 PM	On a side note: My problem with teleport was not that it was used in combat, which would be okay, but that it removed alot of the overland travel. To me, I think that sometimes the journey is more important than the destination...isn't that how it often is in life?...and having the ability to bypass the journey is just game-destroying not in that it's "broken" but that it takes a certain dimension out of the stories. Mechanics-wise, it's okay. But I just don't think it goes with most fantasy themes if you want them to seem at all like the epics you read or watch. For example: How good would the lord of the rings be if Gandalf teleported Frodo over to Mount Doom? What a wonderful story would the Belgariad make if you skipped the entire journey, which takes the better part of 5 books? And how about if Jason just teleported over to that pesky golden fleece? (Could have saved alot of time not having to build a boat and all. :P ) You can only teleport to a place you have seen or have a precise map of. And no core spell allows you the long range ability to just look at terrain. Now, you could make some kind of deal with an arrowhawk or some other aerial monster and suck the terrain view out of it's mind using a special spell, buuuut...you'd still have to get somewhat close to the place in question, meaning the PCs have to travel overland or find someone who has been someplace near the place in question before.
boredgremlin 05-23-05, 04:14 PM	Teleport can be a pain in the butt. There are ways around it though. 1) You could allways just take teleport out and only have teleport circle. Makes some areas more strategically valuable and gives a whole business angle. Lol travel agents who offer instant travel, for a price. 2) For the mage teleporting others. The spell gives a wieght limit equal to the wizards maximum carry load. It says he can also take other people but you could just scrap that part and enforce the wieght limit. That would pretty much nix him taking other people in or out. 3) Its a fairly well established theme in D&D that lead blocks most magic, including teleport, even though its not in the rules. Since this is well known and lead is a common and cheap metal it makes sense that people who are trying to block an area from teleport would have lead sheets in the walls. Or you could make it even easier and allow people to mix lead in with mortar to block spells. That would be a cheap and easy block for most spells and players shouldnt have too much trouble swallowing it.
KoboldSlayer 05-23-05, 04:28 PM	You can only teleport to a place you have seen or have a precise map of. And no core spell allows you the long range ability to just look at terrain. Now, you could make some kind of deal with an arrowhawk or some other aerial monster and suck the terrain view out of it's mind using a special spell, buuuut...you'd still have to get somewhat close to the place in question, meaning the PCs have to travel overland or find someone who has been someplace near the place in question before. It gets pretty old having the PCs even jump just between places they've been if the campaign lasts a long time and they have been alot of places. (For example, having to draw a realistic market for them to shop in when the visit one town is reasonable, two is annoying...drawing a realistic selection for Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Baldur's Gate can be a big pain in the rear if players want to go shopping between adventures and can do so by hopping about with teleport.) Another example is planning an adventure that is most realistically set near the ocean...only to have them teleport back to the mountains for awhile. Which is okay for them to do character-wise, but can be very difficult to work around story-wise if they decide on the fly to do this at a game. (Sometimes players are courteous enough to tell you "hey, I'm thinking of..." for the next game...but most don't even consider that it might be necessary or nice unless they have DM'd, as well.)
Mirikon 05-23-05, 05:50 PM	I like to ask other DM's about their experience with the "Teleport"- Spell. Is their a way to keep players from teleporting out of every critical situation ? :mad: And I'm talking of the selfish kind, who doesn't care about it comrades, if it gets nasty. :( I'm tired of the "some strange magic keeps you from teleporting" excuse. :rolleyes: How do other DM's handle this, without completly kicking the spell out of the game ? :confused: Thank you, sternenschwinge Sounds like you have less a problem with Teleport and more a problem with a player. My advice? Let him teleport away. If he leaves the party to their fate, you can bet said players are going to have words with him. Words that may or may not include a fist to gut conversation when the characters meet up with the wizard again.
primemover003 05-23-05, 06:11 PM	It gets pretty old having the PCs even jump just between places they've been if the campaign lasts a long time and they have been alot of places. (For example, having to draw a realistic market for them to shop in when the visit one town is reasonable, two is annoying...drawing a realistic selection for Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Baldur's Gate can be a big pain in the rear if players want to go shopping between adventures and can do so by hopping about with teleport.) Another example is planning an adventure that is most realistically set near the ocean...only to have them teleport back to the mountains for awhile. Which is okay for them to do character-wise, but can be very difficult to work around story-wise if they decide on the fly to do this at a game. (Sometimes players are courteous enough to tell you "hey, I'm thinking of..." for the next game...but most don't even consider that it might be necessary or nice unless they have DM'd, as well.) Kobold this is the reality of High Level adventuring. Overland travel is an obstacle only to lower to mid level groups. With spells like teleport, Wind or Shadow walk, planeshift, and even the higher functions of Phantom steed covering hundreds of miles the hard way is a thing of the past. At this point the most important thing in adventures is the mission, not the journey. You must create adventures with these abilities in mind, in fact you should make adventures where they are neccessary in order to complete the quest!
Acirema 05-23-05, 06:29 PM	Wall to wall councelling by the other players would be how my group would probably handle that... :D (kidding) Seriously though, Ya could have the party members that were left behind be turned into Ghasts, Vampires or other creatures that are definatly going to be more than a little ticked off. If the Wizard teleports away, let the world around him be affected.
scott644 05-23-05, 07:01 PM	Teleport isn't such a great spell. It's rather readily handled actually. For one thing, my teleport-capable character very rarely memorizes the spell as it's likely he'll need something else to get his goal accomplished and can't waste the slots. That's just an issue of the DM applying game principles. Second, this problem doesn't seem so much of a problem of the spell, so much as player attitudes. Simple enough fix; send them on a planer journey. One that takes them to a plane with no astral border would guarantee the spell fails, and a simple Knowledge(the Planes) or Knowledge(Arcane) would explain this in a hurry. Suddenly, they're looking at other things. Further, if it's a single teleporting wizard, you could secretly get together with the other players and opt to switch to an evil campaign. One where the fight was with various undead, and they get to play their characters with the undead template. Their first adventure? Revenge. :D
angryman 05-23-05, 11:05 PM	I very rarely use teleport as a wizard- it uses up a valuable level 5 slot, for one thing. I use it to prevent a TPK and for convenience when I know there'll be nothing interesting on the way. (the DM's kinda preditable...) So really, it's either keeping the game together or to avoid boredom. No problems. If you want, you could add a material component cost, say 100gp.
boredgremlin 05-23-05, 11:08 PM	Further, if it's a single teleporting wizard, you could secretly get together with the other players and opt to switch to an evil campaign. One where the fight was with various undead, and they get to play their characters with the undead template. Their first adventure? Revenge. :D Lol i love this one. Do this just once and i bet that cowardly wizard changes his ways for the rest of his campaigns with you.
Karelzarath 05-23-05, 11:34 PM	And how does this work, without turning everything into a magic powercell ? I did find just a few spell's, who can block "teleport", but none who is permanent. Try dimensional lock + permanency or the ol' cleric favorite, forbiddance. Easily accomplished by anyone with a reason to hide, and the latter has some nasty side-effects for those that enter by conventional means.
Leap 05-24-05, 08:03 AM	Do what I did, instigate a "hounds of tindalos" rule; teleportation so disrupts the multiverse that there is a 5% chance (cumulative within a month - the fullmoon heals the multiverse and so refreshes the count) everytime you use it that you get chased by a pack of hounds of tindalos (see Call of Cthulhu) through the layers of the multiverse..... They soon stopped using it casually [evil grin]
scott644 05-24-05, 08:38 AM	Lol i love this one. Do this just once and i bet that cowardly wizard changes his ways for the rest of his campaigns with you. Precisely my point. Half the problem is attitude rather than spell. If it's a lone player burning the party on a regular basis, the other players finally get their chance to exact social justice in real life, via the game. Once that's done, go back to the original game concept, including the effective TPK, create new characters for everybody, and let things move on.
KoboldSlayer 05-24-05, 10:40 AM	Kobold this is the reality of High Level adventuring. Overland travel is an obstacle only to lower to mid level groups. With spells like teleport, Wind or Shadow walk, planeshift, and even the higher functions of Phantom steed covering hundreds of miles the hard way is a thing of the past. At this point the most important thing in adventures is the mission, not the journey. You must create adventures with these abilities in mind, in fact you should make adventures where they are neccessary in order to complete the quest! It seems that players are way too eager to use teleport as a convenience, though, than is the norm for the fantasy genre...even if you read novels based specifically on D&D, so presumably using the same rules system. (I know...liberties are taken with the system in the novels.) For example, I can remember teleport, wind walk, and such being used in the Icewind Dale novels and those following, but I think I could count less than a dozen times they were employed (by anyone other than demons that get the ability "at will", so obviously are meant to abuse it), though many characters in the novels are certainly powerful enough to use these or have wealth such that they could easily afford items to do so. With my most recent set of characters, I have not had this problem. Partly this is because they are not high enough level yet to cast the spell themselves...but neither have they gone looking for items that allow them to do it. I think it has more to do with the fact that, though travel is not a huge obstacle to THEM, it is an obstacle for the common folk, and their travelling about dispatching monsters makes the roads safer. (Yay...I finally got a truly good party together instead of a self-serving bunch of mercenaries they usually like to play. I gave some strong encouragement to play something noble instead of neutralish this time around. It has fixed alot of headaches other than just teleport, as well!)
gwydion 05-24-05, 10:45 AM	I don't know if it is a possibility, but next time he teleports out say, 'roll up a new character as your character is now out of my, the DM's, story line.' follow the story of the PCs he left behind. Just a thought.
BGTM 05-24-05, 01:35 PM	I don't know if it is a possibility, but next time he teleports out say, 'roll up a new character as your character is now out of my, the DM's, story line.' follow the story of the PCs he left behind. Just a thought. That's an awfully harsh solution. Teleport is just a fact of high level play. That being said, it's not the ideal spell in many high level situations. First, it's almost worthless in many interplanar adventures. Second, the range limit will come into play more often, forcing them to use Greater Teleport (using a more valuable 7th level slot). As for using teleport to constantly flee from battle, that's a valid tactic, no matter how many times they use it. If they leave to recuperate, the enemies have that same luxury, and may be able to prevent them from escaping any future conflicts. And remember, they don't get exp unless they overcome the challenge.
Kalidor 05-24-05, 01:41 PM	Considering the amount of times the main villain's primary henchman (and the primary foe my players face ) has clicked his boots of teleportation saying "Another time!" after getting beat down... I would never hold it against my players for using the same tactic.