Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DougC 09-29-04, 08:51 PM	I was thinking of possibly running a one-shot game in which the PCs and a few NPCs would be immortals as in Highlander. They would all be drawn to a location where the final showdown would take place, any character, PC or NPC, that managed to behead an opponent would grow stronger from the "Quickening," and only one could be left standing. Has anyone run or played a game like this before? Comments? Opinons?
TJMHPH 09-29-04, 09:05 PM	cant post the name here but there was a game in the mid to late 90's that covered this. was a fun game had warlocks and other weird creatures. contact me for more info.
green_yawgmoth 09-29-04, 10:24 PM	Just make sure that at the start of the session, you play Princes of the Universe by Queen. :D http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Fixxxer 09-29-04, 10:40 PM	Just make sure that at the start of the session, you play Princes of the Universe by Queen. :D I prefered "One dream, one vision" myself. The meaning of life is......FRIED CHICKEN! Damn, I miss Freddy. :(
DougC 09-29-04, 10:43 PM	I prefered "One dream, one vision" myself. The meaning of life is......FRIED CHICKEN! Damn, I miss Freddy. :( Damn, Fixxxer, but that's scary. Next to "Bohemian Rhapsody," that's my favorite Queen song, "Gimme, gimme, gimme....FRIED CHICKEN!" :D It's also one of my favorite foods. :)
StrahdVonZarovich 09-29-04, 11:02 PM	Damn, Fixxxer, but that's scary. Next to "Bohemian Rhapsody," that's my favorite Queen song, "Gimme, gimme, gimme....FRIED CHICKEN!" :D It's also one of my favorite foods. :) Doug, you don't know it yet, but you just gave me an extra idea for my campagin ,thank you so much !
ECOM 09-29-04, 11:23 PM	Someone was working of a highlander like race on the races board about a month ago had some pritty good ideas there
Fixxxer 09-30-04, 01:30 AM	Damn, Fixxxer, but that's scary. Wanna hear something really scary? This morning after I got to work, I started wondering how one would go about using existing D&D rules to run a Highlander-styled game. I musta thought on it for three hours without comming up with much of any use. Warped minds think alike. :D
DougC 09-30-04, 01:34 AM	Warped minds think alike. :D Agreed. :cool: Y'know what's even scarier? I just woke up after falling asleep while working on "Thamion's Vault" and thought I'd just check my email and the boards one more time before turning in for the night. :D
WCH 09-30-04, 01:56 AM	Immortals as in fiends/celestials/whatever at a certain CR? Could be fun. I've been wanting to do a campaign where the PCs are all super-powerful monsters for a while now (Ogre Magi, Illithids, etc). If you're going to have them all drawn to one area where they fight to the death, it'd be a nice twist to have something stronger than any of them sleeping there and getting awakened at some point, so they have to work together to take it out, while still competing amongst themselves... an archfiend from the BoVD, for instance. They're all in the CR 22-35 range, so no matter how powerful the contestants are, you'll find a good one stronger. :D
DougC 09-30-04, 09:00 AM	Hmmm.... Interesting idea, WCH. I like it. :D BTW, I was thinking "immortals" as in the PHB races, similar to the Highlander TV series (them not being aliens, that "plot twist" in the second movie just kind of ruined the films for me), although your suggestion could work also. :)
EatFlan 09-30-04, 09:51 AM	how about this, for every person killed and 'quickening' earned you get a template in addition to whatever xp you earned. You could kind of have teirs too...so at tier 1 (the biggest) all winners get a +1 template to choose from (a selection you sort through first for so-so balance). Teir 2 = up to +2 template Teir 3 = up to +3 tempalte since all templates stack it could be interesting...my super fast 2 cents.
Adraedan 09-30-04, 09:52 AM	An old DM of mine had one of the PCs, me, be an immortal who had to fight other immortals and become stronger, effectivly Highlander. Everytime I killed another immortal, I would absorb all his proficiencies (2nd ed) and one other thing of my choice (I had an obscene ammount of proficiencies and special abilities by 5th level)...I could only die from beheading, incineration or being digested. All in all it was fun, but it also was far too unbalanced when he made only one of us immortal.
BlueLion 09-30-04, 09:59 AM	I've considered a similar angle before - having my players face off with one another at the end of the campaign when they vie for world rulership. I haven't tried it yet, because it introduces a concept contrary to the normal run of things. Normally players work together and help each other - but what happens when they have to compete? It turns into a whole new ball-game. I'm currently running a campaign with evil PC's to see how they do things together but still try to have power over one another ... it's pretty messy so far. I mean, if they're out to kill each other - how do you build adventures around that? It would be pretty difficult.
DougC 09-30-04, 12:43 PM	Doug, you don't know it yet, but you just gave me an extra idea for my campagin ,thank you so much ! You're velcome so much. :D An old DM of mine had one of the PCs, me, be an immortal who had to fight other immortals and become stronger, effectivly Highlander. Everytime I killed another immortal, I would absorb all his proficiencies (2nd ed) and one other thing of my choice (I had an obscene ammount of proficiencies and special abilities by 5th level)...I could only die from beheading, incineration or being digested. All in all it was fun, but it also was far too unbalanced when he made only one of us immortal. I was thinkng of something similar to this, that when an immortal PC or NPC beheads another immortal, they gain, through the "Quickening," some of the abilities of the beheaded immortal. Somehow absorb some of their abilities, maybe just add their ability bonuses? Of course, in the game I'm thinking of running, every PC would be an immortal. I've considered a similar angle before - having my players face off with one another at the end of the campaign when they vie for world rulership. I haven't tried it yet, because it introduces a concept contrary to the normal run of things. Normally players work together and help each other - but what happens when they have to compete? It turns into a whole new ball-game. I'm currently running a campaign with evil PC's to see how they do things together but still try to have power over one another ... it's pretty messy so far. I mean, if they're out to kill each other - how do you build adventures around that? It would be pretty difficult. Perhaps I should explain what I mean by "one shot." What I meant by that is that it would last no more than four sessions, probably less. Ideally, it would only be one or two. And, in this case, their would be a winner. :D Of course, it would be possible to have immortals allied together, as in the movie and TV series, but I, personally, don't want to run an entire campaign like this. It was just an idea for a way to take a break from an extensive, long-run campaign. :)
Didge 09-30-04, 01:39 PM	Well, here are two ideas in no particular order to convert this idea to 3.0 or 3.5 D&D... 1) The "quickening" would allow for insta-level. This next part allows for the absorbing abilities idea if you want to get stricter then they have to spend their new skill points on skills that the other person possessed. 2) Fast healing, and regeneration abilities are a must if you want to go this route, with the exception of if the head is severed you are dead, dead. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Ok, so I thought I had more but my brain is shutting down. It sounds like an interesting idea. I agree with the others, you must have Queen playing in the background...it's a must if you run this kind of game.
DougC 09-30-04, 06:19 PM	I agree with the others, you must have Queen playing in the background...it's a must if you run this kind of game. Of course. :D Although, I'm not sure about the "they have to spend their new skill points on skills that the other person possessed" idea. The players might not like being told what to spend their skill points on, even in a short, one-shot game. Perhaps, going the "insta-level" route, the "Quickening" could provide X amount of skill points per level of the character beheaded? Of course, choosing not to go with the "insta-level" idea, they'd definitely get the XP for beheading another immortal. Also, I was thinking maybe add one point per point of ability modifier to the beheading character's abilities? For example, say Character A has STR 20 (+5), DEX 18 (+4), INT 17 (+3), CON 19 (+4), WIS 21 (+5), and CHA 17 (+3) and Character B has STR 18 (+4), DEX 20 (+5), INT 19 (+4), CON 18 (+4), WIS 17 (+3), and CHA 18 (+4). Character B manages to behead Character A so, after the "Quickening," Character B now has STR 23 (18+5), DEX 24 (20+4), INT 22 (19+3), CON 22 (18+4), WIS 22 (17+5), and CHA 21 (18+3). I don't know, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions? :)
trapspringer 09-30-04, 07:04 PM	It's easy, really. Regeneration against everything but a CDG. All damage is subdual till the PC is down (at which point he appears very much dead), then a CDG to chop his head off. I would suggest a free, random bloodline for every immortal killed. (UA)
Fixxxer 09-30-04, 09:59 PM	It's easy, really. Regeneration against everything but a CDG. All damage is subdual till the PC is down (at which point he appears very much dead), then a CDG to chop his head off. Yes, but how do you deal with beheadings during a fight? Sure, it's easy to use the rules to explain how to handle someone while he's down (sort of like Kurgan vs Ramirez), and it's possible (albeit, more difficult) to explain disarming someone and then lopping their head off (like MacLeod vs Aman Fasil), but how do you use the reules to deal with someone getting his head lopped off during the actual fight (like Kurgan vs Kastagir)? Doug, something I thought of today that you might or might not want to incorporate deals with the holy ground issue. During an episode in one of the later seasons of the series, MacLeod asked Dawson if the watchers had ever recorded two immortals fighting on holy ground. Dawson said not officially, but the legend was that it had only happened once...in Pompei, just before a volcano erupted and swallowed the entire city. How I would think about dealing with things is that for every so many immortals that you kill, you get one bonus point to place in one of your statistics (STR, DEX, etc). The one catch (which isn't much of a problem until higher levels) is that the ability point you gain can only be placed in one of your abilities that is lower than those of the immortals you've killed to gain the point. That sounds complicated, but it's really not. Simply put, (we'll assume you decide that you have to kill 5 immortals you get an ability point) what I mean is that if you have a CON score higher than all of the five immortals you killed to gain this ability point, you can't place that point in your CON score. That's just a suggestion, though...and probably not a very good one.
DougC 09-30-04, 10:22 PM	Doug, something I thought of today that you might or might not want to incorporate deals with the holy ground issue. During an episode in one of the later seasons of the series, MacLeod asked Dawson if the watchers had ever recorded two immortals fighting on holy ground. Dawson said not officially, but the legend was that it had only happened once...in Pompei, just before a volcano erupted and swallowed the entire city. Did the vocano erupt because of the two immortals fighting on holy ground? Which reminds me of a theory that an old friend of mine once told me after the second movie came out. He said that he thought that it would've been better if the writers had made the immortals the offspring of "The Wandering Jew." I thought that would have been better than aliens. Not that I have anything against aliens. :D Your ability point suggestion is interesting, but shouldn't something be gained with each "Quickening"? Perhaps as you suggest, but the point gained with the beheading of each individual immortal? Just a thought. :)
Wayward Son 10-01-04, 01:51 PM	There can be only one Highlander film. The others we figments of your imagination, since there were exactly NO open plot threads at the end of the first film. The series is OK, taken as seperate from the One True Film. :D Anyway, as to the topic at hand, I haven't thought a lot about a D&D (or even d20) version of Highlander, but one thought leaps to mind. Allow a racial feature of the immortals that any one- or two-handed slashing weapon wielded by an immortal (excepting light weapons) be considered a vorpal weapon. That way you can have the dramatic beheadings during a pitched battle, and still allow for the coup de gras beheading of a defeated foe, all without altering the combat rules.
DougC 10-01-04, 02:11 PM	There can be only one Highlander film. The others we figments of your imagination, since there were exactly NO open plot threads at the end of the first film. The series is OK, taken as seperate from the One True Film. :D Anyway, as to the topic at hand, I haven't thought a lot about a D&D (or even d20) version of Highlander, but one thought leaps to mind. Allow a racial feature of the immortals that any one- or two-handed slashing weapon wielded by an immortal (excepting light weapons) be considered a vorpal weapon. That way you can have the dramatic beheadings during a pitched battle, and still allow for the coup de gras beheading of a defeated foe, all without altering the combat rules. This is, actually, a very good suggestion, IMO anyway. I'm just sore that I didn't think of it first. ;) Thanks, Wayward Son, I like that idea. (And the rant, btw.) :)
Didge 10-01-04, 02:23 PM	I watched the series pretty regularly back in the...ok not going there...that decade is over, time to move on... Anyway, Fixxxer isn't entirely right about there being only one fight on holy ground. As I recall, there was an episode (later episodes as well), in which Duncan faced an immortal that would kill on holy ground. Duncan was confused and went to ask his watcher-friend what was up. This might be the same episode that you're thinking about Fixxxer. Anyway, the explination was something to the effect of, "well, the reason why most immortals don't kill another on holy ground is because it affects the quickening." I seem to recall it was something about the immortal not getting the full 'hook-up' of immortal juice or whatever it is that the quickening gives you. Maybe it was like half or something. I don't recall. That show was on too long ago for me to remember correctly. Frankly, if I were in this day and age as an immortal, I sure as heck would be packing an automatic weapon with me everywhere, as well as a sword. Sure, the gun ain't gonna kill you, but it'll drop you long enough for me to take your head. Ok, so I wouldn't play fair, but hey, when the day is done, I'd still have my head...until someone else started taking pot-shots at me with THEIR automatic weapon. As for advice, I think Fixxxer has a good idea, with the bump to ability score if their stat is lower than who they've slain. As for my advice about the skill points, I was inferring if you wanted to be strict you could opt to force them to spend the skill points that way. Perhaps when you kill an immortal you get your level in skill points bonus but they must go to one (or more) skills the old immortal possessed?? Just some more thoughts to digest.
DougC 10-01-04, 02:34 PM	As for my advice about the skill points, I was inferring if you wanted to be strict you could opt to force them to spend the skill points that way. Perhaps when you kill an immortal you get your level in skill points bonus but they must go to one (or more) skills the old immortal possessed?? Hmmm, I like this suggestion, providing the bonus skill points without the "insta-level." I also like the idea of killing on holy ground affecting the Quickening. :)
Dash Branaghan 10-01-04, 02:47 PM	Okay, here are my thoughts. #1) Have the immortals require the alternate Instant Kill to die...you have to roll 3 20's in a roll for the insta kill, and this is reflected in the precision of a head being chopped off. Yep, these guys are tough to kill, and this reflects it. Alternatively, you can have it so they must roll within their crit range with the weapon three times in a row, which puts keen weapons and Improved Critical feat as high priorities. You can make it 2 20's in a row if you want it hard, but not uber hard (1 in 400 as opposed to 1 in 8000, if my math is good, which I've been told it isn't, so there). This is a great technique for standing combat, IMO. (see #5 later on, for something else that came up) #2) I like the idea of going up a level with each one you kill, but at the same time, in the movies you absorb their knowledge as well. So how I would translate this into game (and keep in mind, this is ultra powerful) is give half of their levels to the victor (round down), and all their ranks in skills, as long as it doesn't exceed maximum class skills. Treat any cross class skills gained in this way as class skills to reflect the character's expanded knowledge. It's gonna make spending those skill points a b**** now, especially if you have 18 skills and maybe four skill points to spend. #3) An alternative option is the concept of the BloodStone of Fistandantilus. Fixxxer, I'm surprised you didn't think of this. Basically, the BoF allows for body transferrence, but in this case, the Quickening allows for absorption of traits. If the character goes against a stronger opponent, their strength, if they win, goes up to the other characters strength. Same with all the stats. Yet another alternative is that you can opt out on one stat at random without knowing whether it is higher or lower, and if it is higher, your stat goes up. To illustrate: Connor and Kurrigan are going at it. Connor has the following stats: 14 Str, 17 Dex, 18 Con, 18 Int, 14 Wis, and 16 Cha. Kurrigan, in order, is 18, 14, 20, 14, 12, 12. Connor whoops his butt. Connor now has the choice to pick a stat, so if he pickes Str or Con, his Strength or Con would go up to the Kurrigan's level (or you could alternatively alternatively alternatively increase it by 1 instead of a 2 or 4 point jump). Up to you on this one...there are so many alternatives that can be worked out, you can select which works best for your idea. #4) No Scottish Accents. Anyone who talks in one will find a plowshare being pulled by a horse with horseshoes of speed bounce off a rock and chop their head off. #5) Give them Fast Healing 5, Damage Reduction 5, and any damage they take from weapons is subdual. This reflects their ability to recover quickly and why the battles are long, especially between the stronger ones. I like the idea of fast healing, but if you don't want that going on, then you might switch it to DR 10. Same sort of thing, but unlike fast healing, a bad roll that breaks DR will still damage, while a bad roll that barely breaks DR will enable the character to heal back some of the older damage. Up to you. When they are knocked unconcious thanks to accumulated subdual damage, they can be CDG'd as per the standard the rules. The CDG'd character is effectively decapitated if the save is failed, and the victorious character advances to the next round. #6) The only problems I can see are magic and things like Dragon's Breath. Or a Giant with the Highlander template. Is magic and dragon's breath going to kill the Highlander, or can they only die from having their head severed? Would a critical strike with Acid from a Black Dragon be enough to dissolve the head? What if they are eaten? Would the dragon gain their essense, or would it go to the nearest Highlander? What about a Disintegrate spell? Ways around it are obvious. SR and ER come to mind...SR might be 20+Character Level, and ER is a flat 20 or 25 all around, but now it's becoming hokey (can I get a pokey?). Anyways, those are my ideas on this topic. Enjoy. Dash
DougC 10-01-04, 03:00 PM	#4) No Scottish Accents. Anyone who talks in one will find a plowshare being pulled by a horse with horseshoes of speed bounce off a rock and chop their head off. :rofl: As usual, you have some very good ideas, many of which I'll probably use (only one or two with slight modifications, maybe). Thanks. :D
DougC 10-01-04, 03:53 PM	I happened to find this Highlander d20 (http://hometown.aol.com/frodie69/myhomepage/Highlander.html) game, for any of you who might be interested. I haven't really looked at it in-depth, however. :) Personally, though, I think I'll utilize many of the excellent suggestions posted in this thread, wanting to keep it in the "medieval fantasy D&D" setting. Thanks for all of your replies and any more that may be forthcoming. :D
Vradin 10-01-04, 03:56 PM	I'm liking this idea. I was also considering running a Highlander type game in a D&D setting. One of the things I was wrestling over is exactly what does an Immortal gain when they receive a Quickening? Would you allow any weapon an Immortal wields to be considered Vorpal? Or would you use rules similiar to the Kensai PrC for Signature Weapons? Would you create an Immortal PrC and force them into taking levels from this PrC after they have been "revived" the first time? How would you justify 4-6 Immortals traveling together? Would you start them out as "potential immortals", ie immortals who haven't died for the first time, and let them gain levels normally or would you start them out as being already immortal? With an Immortal PrC you could get pretty creative. Each level they could gain a class feat from a list of feats deemed appropriate for Immortals. Every 2-3 levels they could gain stat increases. You could even say that after you become Immortal you stop gaining all experience and you move up an Immortal level by killing X number of Immortals. Wow, i've got tons of ideas floating in my head, too many to write down. Let me know what ya think. Vradin
Fixxxer 10-01-04, 05:55 PM	Anyway, Fixxxer isn't entirely right about there being only one fight on holy ground. As I recall, there was an episode (later episodes as well), in which Duncan faced an immortal that would kill on holy ground. Duncan was confused and went to ask his watcher-friend what was up. This might be the same episode that you're thinking about Fixxxer. Anyway, the explination was something to the effect of, "well, the reason why most immortals don't kill another on holy ground is because it affects the quickening." I seem to recall it was something about the immortal not getting the full 'hook-up' of immortal juice or whatever it is that the quickening gives you. Maybe it was like half or something. I don't recall. That show was on too long ago for me to remember correctly. I must have missed that episode. Frankly, if I were in this day and age as an immortal, I sure as heck would be packing an automatic weapon with me everywhere, as well as a sword. Several immortals in the series used a similar method. One hit you with a sniper rifle, then went in for the kill. Another used a crew of mortals with machines guns (who don't warn the target they're there with that "I sense another immortal nearby" radar) to gun you down, then he comes in and takes a little off the top. More than one made a habit of running you over before taking your head. The watcher Horton killed the immortal Darius by zapping him with a remote tazer before lopping off his head. I remember an episode where an immortal charmed his watcher into researching other immortals so he could catch them when they didn't have their swords with them. It was frighteningly easy to kill an immortal. The problem was that you had to know who they were and where they were to do it. Just for GP information, there's another Highlander movie set for production. It has a 2005 release date. So far, the cast includes Christopher Lambert (Connor MacLeod) and Peter Wingfield (Methos). I think the idea is that it's supposed to take place shortly after Connor's first wife Heather dies, but I'm not certain.
Fixxxer 10-02-04, 12:40 AM	While I have this up on my screen, here's a post I tried to make before going to bed last night, but my ISP's local server started acting wonky and wouldn't let me access the web... Did the vocano erupt because of the two immortals fighting on holy ground? That was what was hinted at. It came out more as a whispered myth that everyone knows about, but no could say whether it's true or not. Your ability point suggestion is interesting, but shouldn't something be gained with each "Quickening"? Perhaps as you suggest, but the point gained with the beheading of each individual immortal? Just a thought. :) If it were my game, no I wouldn't give something after every quickening. One less immortal in the way of attainging the prize is enough, as far as I'm concerned. Having watched all of the films, all (most, apparently, since I haven't seen the episode that Didge is refering to) of the TV episodes and read several of the released novels, I'd be extremely loathe to give an immediate reward after each quickening, since that never seemed to be the case in any of those precidents. While I'm thinking about it, another idea you might or might not want to use is the Dark Quickening that took up a two-part episode of the TV series. Basically, somewhere down the line, the insanity of several immortals whose heads were taken built up and created a sort of evil influence. So you run into another immortal who seems eager to pick a fight with you. You find a nice dark alley and you take his head. The quickening is very different from any you've experienced before and it basically robs you of your inhabitions and superimposes an evil and sadistic personality over your own. To put it into game terms, you have to make a Will save (DC 45 or so) or your alignment immediately shifts to chaotic evil. The way this was beaten in the TV series (spoilers follow, so if you don't want to know, stop reading now) was that MacLeod was taken to a "magical" healing spring and given his father's sword as a reminder of who he really is. He still seemed to have problems, even then. In game terms, this could equal being taken to a specific (perhaps holy) location and having an atonement spell cast on you, which would grant you another Will save to remove the ill effects. Just a thought. :)
DougC 10-02-04, 02:13 AM	If it were my game, no I wouldn't give something after every quickening. One less immortal in the way of attainging the prize is enough, as far as I'm concerned. Having watched all of the films, all (most, apparently, since I haven't seen the episode that Didge is refering to) of the TV episodes and read several of the released novels, I'd be extremely loathe to give an immediate reward after each quickening, since that never seemed to be the case in any of those precidents. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I haven't been able to watch the series on anything even remotely resembling a regular basis since '94/'95, so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details. Still, I would think that the immortals should get at least something minimal (like a small amount of bonus skill points, for example) from each Quickening, then after X amount of Quickenings, get something major (a slow-build type of thing, maybe?). And I do like the "Dark Quickening" idea. :D
Didge 10-02-04, 04:23 AM	Ok, It's late, I don't have my glasses on and can barely see so keep that in mind when reading this and judging my spelling, grammer, and general line of thought... First and foremost...Fixxxer, no worries about seeing the episode I'm referring to. Frankly, I have a horrible memory most of the time (ironic that I graduated college with a History degree, heh), but for some reason I remembered that episode when you were talking about the quickening and what happens when immortals fight on holy ground and all. I also recall the episodes you were talking about, especially the one where the immortal had his watcher giving him tips on what the other immortals were doing and where they were. Overall, I enjoyed the series as a distraction to my afternoons when I didn't have anything else going on. As I would call it, I'd definately do the bit about if you killed an immortal you gain your level in bonus skill(s) which should/must (?) be spent on skills that the other immortal had. This gives you some advantages for the quickening, and keeps some continuity to what everyone thinks of when you say, "quickening". Or at least that's my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em. The dark bit of the quickening thing that Fixxxer wrote seems pretty cool, and would go well with a means of keeping player's whacking every immortal they come across. Perhaps this dark quickening surrounds each of the PC immortals, and knowing that they each have some underlying issues, etc. they don't take each others heads. Just an idea if you plan on running an evil-esque style of game. Something else occured to me. After the quickening, the immortal was semi-helpless for a small bit of time. Are you planning on incorporating this at all? Alright...time for this camper to go to bed and *try* to sleep. I'm sure I'll check this in the morning and be like, "huh??? what was I thinking??"
DougC 10-02-04, 11:09 AM	Something else occured to me. After the quickening, the immortal was semi-helpless for a small bit of time. Are you planning on incorporating this at all? I had forgotten about this, but now that you mention it, yeah, I would think it should be incorporated in trying to keep with the movies/series as closely as possible. :) #1) Have the immortals require the alternate Instant Kill to die...you have to roll 3 20's in a roll for the insta kill, and this is reflected in the precision of a head being chopped off. Yep, these guys are tough to kill, and this reflects it. Alternatively, you can have it so they must roll within their crit range with the weapon three times in a row, which puts keen weapons and Improved Critical feat as high priorities. You can make it 2 20's in a row if you want it hard, but not uber hard (1 in 400 as opposed to 1 in 8000, if my math is good, which I've been told it isn't, so there). I like this idea, but I'm torn between which one to use, the three 20's or the two 20's (my math, beyond the fundamentals, and some extremely basic algebra, isn't so good either :)). #2) I like the idea of going up a level with each one you kill.... I still don't really like the idea of "insta-levelling" so much. Although, I definitely think that they should gain something from each Quickening. I'm beginning to like the idea of them getting bonus skill points in skills possessed by the beheaded immortal, but... #3) An alternative option is the concept of the BloodStone of Fistandantilus. Fixxxer, I'm surprised you didn't think of this. Basically, the BoF allows for body transferrence, but in this case, the Quickening allows for absorption of traits. If the character goes against a stronger opponent, their strength, if they win, goes up to the other characters strength. Same with all the stats. I also like this idea. However, in accordance with Fixxxer's last post, perhaps they should gain a +1 (or +2?) to each ability of the beheaded immortal's that is higher than theirs? Maybe it's just me but, still, I think that they should gain at least a little something from each Quickening. #4) No Scottish Accents. Anyone who talks in one will find a plowshare being pulled by a horse with horseshoes of speed bounce off a rock and chop their head off. I do realize that this is a joke (and a very funny one, at that), but it brought a question to my mind that I thought I'd ask even though it will probably never (and actually shouldn't ever) come up in a game. What if, by some bizarre miracle, an immortal were to lose his head by accident? If there were another immortal nearby, would he still recieve the Quickening or no? #5) Give them Fast Healing 5, Damage Reduction 5.... Personally, I like this option the best. To me, it just seems to fit best with what I remember of the series. When they are knocked unconcious thanks to accumulated subdual damage, they can be CDG'd as per the standard the rules. The CDG'd character is effectively decapitated if the save is failed, and the victorious character advances to the next round. I think everyone pretty much agrees with this. I know that I do. :) #6) The only problems I can see are magic and things like Dragon's Breath. Or a Giant with the Highlander template. Is magic and dragon's breath going to kill the Highlander, or can they only die from having their head severed? Would a critical strike with Acid from a Black Dragon be enough to dissolve the head? What if they are eaten? Would the dragon gain their essense, or would it go to the nearest Highlander? What about a Disintegrate spell? Ways around it are obvious. SR and ER come to mind...SR might be 20+Character Level, and ER is a flat 20 or 25 all around, but now it's becoming hokey (can I get a pokey?). POKEY! ;) Actually, considering that they would be immortals in a fantasy adventue setting, I don't really find the SR and ER idea all that hokey. Your questions about the dragon's breath and the like, however, are good ones. I'm not sure how I would handle that. Where would the Quickening go if the head were dissolved by Black Dragon's Acid Breath? Of course, if eaten, I would think that there would be enough left to regenerate as long as the FH and DR was enough to offset the damage done by the creature's digestive fluids. :D
Dash Branaghan 10-02-04, 01:04 PM	Okay, I have a couple of other thoughts here. #1) Instead of doing the insta-level, which is tough, give them bonus skill points equal to the dead immortals class (ie. if they kill a rogue, they get 8 bonus skill points, if they kill a fighter, they get 2). The difference is that they don't become overwhelmingly powerful and each class reflects how much one can learn (ie. skills). So that might be a less powerful variation. #2) In conjunction with #1), have them choose a stat to go up in, assuming the immortal killed has any stat higher. Limit it to one stat, and one point. This is not nearly as powerful as it may seem, since it doesn't automatically advance you to the next bonus, and by granting only one stat, it is limited, but allows the characters to develop a concept (ie. dextrous rogue, highly resistant to CDG Constitution characters, etc). #3) If you are planning to go with PCs as immortals, then I suggest you choose between 2 natural 20's or 3 critical hits in combat. I wouldn't bother with the 3 natural 20's...your odds are 1:20 x 1:20 x 1:20, or 1:8000 if I did the statistical probability correctly. Odds are I didn't, and since there are enough math geniuses on the boards here, I'm sure someone will correct it. I think the critical hits is the best option, simply because those with Improved Critical and a keen weapon are that much more formidable. The one thing you need to watch for is munchies taking weapons with the widest crit range to take advantage of it. #4) To cover the helpless feeling, make them Exhausted, or alternatively, have them roll fortitude saves (you can either set a permanent DC or make the DC 10 + Subdual Damage total taken in fight) to do anything. They are limited to partial actions for a number of rounds less their constitution bonus (again, you can set the number permanently, or you can base it on 10 + Damage or some other number). Now, what dimension are they from? If I recall (and I did try to block this from my memory, but this thread brought it back), in Highlander 2 *retch* The Immortals had their own little planet that they came from. Now, I'm not going to compete with Didge or Fixxxer on this one since I have seen three movies and avoid the TV show like the plague (even though it is filmed in Canada), but if I recall correctly, Connor gets really old and then he manages to kill one of the bird creatures (damn those guys were annoying) and absorb the power (including youth) and comes out looking like he did in the first one. Well, Christopher Lambert was older, but... Anyway, my point is...what do you do when you have an alternate planet of immortals, none of whom seem to be vying for the prize, but would rather send themselves to the PM Plane to battle in one on one competitions and yadda yadda yadda...How many immortals are there? I mean, granted, it allows for continuation in the campaign, especially if the BBEG is immortal, but how would you incorporate this facet into the game? I used to joke about Earth's yellow sun giving the Immortals their Immortality... Another thing is if you run the Immortal as a template...Giants and large creatures would have a great deal more ease at winning competitions (since this is D&D...Highlander never really had those issues beyond Clancy Brown), and lord help us if you made an Immortal Dragon. Just some more thoughts. Dash
Milak 10-02-04, 05:28 PM	I played in my groups last 2.0 realms adventure with this concept. I was the lucky one and got to play the immortal. It definatly made my character way overpowered as each immortal he killed got him the equivalent of an extra feat in 3.X. He had natural regeneration which was pretty high up (1 HP per round), that was due to being over 3000 years old. We played that off by having him wake up from a ship wreck with amnesia and essentially started off at level 1 remembered his skills as he leveled. I played a Kensai with katana to start and after reaching level 10 made him dual class into a monk. This was an incredible powerful combo. When the campaign ended he was 17th Monk / 10th Kensai and could easily hand up to 20 level 10th fighters at a time. I must say that the whole immortal portion of the campaign and fighting for quickenings never dominated the campaign. It was simply something my character did and was a mystery to everybody else, including himself early on. With all that power came 1 big draw back though. He could regenerate himself back from death and didn't need raise dead's or ressurection. Unfortuatly if he lost his head I was making a new character, no if and's or buts about it. With this kind of power behind a character our one on one fights were awsome. My heart was pounding during each fight he had as it could be the one that killed him for good. Don't be afraid to throw a power immortal at him/them, one must learn what fights can and can't be won. I would not suggest having more than 1 person in the party be an immortal. There will always be competition quickenings and they will turn into head hunters which may turn on each other bringing the campaign to a close.
Fixxxer 10-02-04, 05:41 PM	Now, what dimension are they from? If I recall (and I did try to block this from my memory, but this thread brought it back), in Highlander 2 *retch* The Immortals had their own little planet that they came from. Now, I'm not going to compete with Didge or Fixxxer on this one since I have seen three movies and avoid the TV show like the plague (even though it is filmed in Canada), but if I recall correctly, Connor gets really old and then he manages to kill one of the bird creatures (damn those guys were annoying) and absorb the power (including youth) and comes out looking like he did in the first one. Well, Christopher Lambert was older, but... They weren't bird creatures. They were just annoying mercs from Zeist. I think the idea behind making MacLeod young again was that he was no longer the only immortal in the world again, so he returned to the...um..."age" he was when he was immortal. As a side note, the highlander series finished its last season years ago, so it used to be filmed in Canada. :) Maybe it's just me but, still, I think that they should gain at least a little something from each Quickening. +1 or +2 to an ability seems like a lot more than "a little something" to me. Of course, it's probably no big deal if there aren't more than a ahandful of immortals in the world. The dark bit of the quickening thing that Fixxxer wrote seems pretty cool, and would go well with a means of keeping player's whacking every immortal they come across. Perhaps this dark quickening surrounds each of the PC immortals, and knowing that they each have some underlying issues, etc. they don't take each others heads. Just an idea if you plan on running an evil-esque style of game. The only problem is that if you use the dark wquickening as it is used in the series, they would all immediately attack each other. In addition, I don't think you'd have to worry about a dark quickening if you already have one. Just chipping my 2gp in. :)
Dash Branaghan 10-03-04, 12:03 AM	As a side note, the highlander series finished its last season years ago, so it used to be filmed in Canada. :) Yeah yeah yeah. :P +1 or +2 to an ability seems like a lot more than "a little something" to me. Of course, it's probably no big deal if there aren't more than a ahandful of immortals in the world. Well, like I said, if you have a dimension or a planet full of them then it might be a problem. Of course keep in mind that you're not going to be killing all of the other immortals; I'm sure they will divide killing each other up among each other. Just chipping my 2gp in. :) *hands you two cp change* :P Ah, you know I luv ya man. Dash
DougC 10-03-04, 03:04 AM	#1) Instead of doing the insta-level, which is tough, give them bonus skill points equal to the dead immortals class (ie. if they kill a rogue, they get 8 bonus skill points, if they kill a fighter, they get 2). The difference is that they don't become overwhelmingly powerful and each class reflects how much one can learn (ie. skills). So that might be a less powerful variation. I like this, they get bonus skill points, but not too many at once. #2) In conjunction with #1), have them choose a stat to go up in, assuming the immortal killed has any stat higher. Limit it to one stat, and one point. This is not nearly as powerful as it may seem, since it doesn't automatically advance you to the next bonus, and by granting only one stat, it is limited, but allows the characters to develop a concept (ie. dextrous rogue, highly resistant to CDG Constitution characters, etc). To me, this (even in conjunction with #1) seems like a way to give them "a little something" without them becoming too powerful too quick. #3) If you are planning to go with PCs as immortals, then I suggest you choose between 2 natural 20's or 3 critical hits in combat. I wouldn't bother with the 3 natural 20's...your odds are 1:20 x 1:20 x 1:20, or 1:8000 if I did the statistical probability correctly. Odds are I didn't, and since there are enough math geniuses on the boards here, I'm sure someone will correct it. I think the critical hits is the best option, simply because those with Improved Critical and a keen weapon are that much more formidable. The one thing you need to watch for is munchies taking weapons with the widest crit range to take advantage of it. Hmmm, I see your point on the critical hits option and the munchies. I really like the crit idea, though. #4) To cover the helpless feeling, make them Exhausted, or alternatively, have them roll fortitude saves (you can either set a permanent DC or make the DC 10 + Subdual Damage total taken in fight) to do anything. They are limited to partial actions for a number of rounds less their constitution bonus (again, you can set the number permanently, or you can base it on 10 + Damage or some other number). Having to rest for 9 hours before no longer being Exhausted/Fatigued seems a bit much. Perhaps, since they are immortal, the recovery time could be modified to say, an hour or so? Or maybe X number of rounds minus their Con bonus? I like this better than the Fort Save idea, but that's just me. :) Now, what dimension are they from? If I recall (and I did try to block this from my memory, but this thread brought it back), in Highlander 2 *retch* The Immortals had their own little planet that they came from. Yes. And, as I've previously stated, I really didn't like this either. It's not that I don't like aliens (hell, I'm the one who wants to use "aliens as gods" in one of my campiagns, remember?), it's just that, to me, it didn't really seem to fit with the first movie. Anyway, I thought they were Scottish! So, I'm not really sure if I would want to have them be from some dimension other than the Prime Material. Of course, this does leave the question, "Where do they come from?" Anyway, my point is...what do you do when you have an alternate planet of immortals, none of whom seem to be vying for the prize, but would rather send themselves to the PM Plane to battle in one on one competitions and yadda yadda yadda...How many immortals are there? I mean, granted, it allows for continuation in the campaign, especially if the BBEG is immortal, but how would you incorporate this facet into the game? I used to joke about Earth's yellow sun giving the Immortals their Immortality... A variation on Superman? I never did really like Superman much. Now Batman, Spiderman, those guys are cool. :cool: Another thing is if you run the Immortal as a template...Giants and large creatures would have a great deal more ease at winning competitions (since this is D&D...Highlander never really had those issues beyond Clancy Brown), and lord help us if you made an Immortal Dragon. Well, of course my first NPC Immortal would have to be a Dragon. :P Actually, I was thinking of keeping the Immortals limited to the PHB races, but I could probably be persuaded to allow other humanoid races. Maybe. Just some more thoughts. Thinking can, sometimes, be dangerous. :P ;) +1 or +2 to an ability seems like a lot more than "a little something" to me. Of course, it's probably no big deal if there aren't more than a ahandful of immortals in the world. You're right about the +2, but I don't see how +1 to one ability is a huge deal as long as you don't allow an Immortal character to lop off other Immortals' heads every other round. :) :D Perhaps I should explain what I mean by "one shot." What I meant by that is that it would last no more than four sessions, probably less. Ideally, it would only be one or two. And, in this case, their would be a winner. Of course, now I'm beginning to think that it might be interesting to run an entire campaign with PC Immortals who are allied with good reason not to behead each other, but knowing that it will have to be done at some point. :schemes: You guys are making my brain hurt. ;)
Dash Branaghan 10-03-04, 01:48 PM	Cool, I call dibs on the Drow Immortal...no, wait, I want a Tiefling Immortal. With Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm. And a Whip. And a Spiked Chain. And Weapon Focus Spiked Chain. And Weapon Finesse.... Sorry, got to drooling. There is no reason why this can't be a sort of side issue within a larger campaign. If I remember my 2e OA correctly(and I do, otherwise I wouldn't remember to mention it), the samurai and kensai were often challenged all the time, and it became a matter of honor to defeat the challenger (mucho honor to win, loss of mucho honor to lose, great plot machination). This part I might be wrong on, but I think the Kensai had to actually challenge someone of the level he was trying to attain, and win, to go up a level. The challenge could be first blood or whatever, but he had to challenge and win. Of course, now that I think of it, it does seem somewhat strange that that would be a requirement to a level, but there are stranger things in 2ed. So I don't see it interfering too much if you limit it to PHB and specific other classes (ie. Genasi, Aasimar, Drow, Svirfneblin, etc), but I certainly wouldn't have a group of immortals wandering around together. You also have yet to determine the LA for the Immortal character (once you have decided what it grants and what powers come with the Quickening). Wow, I just had an image of an Aasimar Immortal Paladin. That could be fun to play. Would that violate the Paladin's code if he CDG'd a fellow immortal after rendering him helpless? Interesting thing to consider. So skip the dimension/planet, and make it similar to the chance of rolling psionics in 1ed...slim. Very slim. In fact, if the player wants to opt out for the template, make it so they have to roll 100 on percentile. Slim, but a chance. Alternatively, can you imagine having an Immortal as an enemy? Holy Energizer BBEG, Batman. Dash
Didge 10-03-04, 02:07 PM	Ok, now that I've gotten some sleep, and can actually think semi-clearly, I'll take a stab (no pun intended) at helping clear up some ideas that I've been having. 1) I think the idea of skill points based on what class you opponent had works. Give props to Dash, that idea seems to work best IMHO. Much better than the level of the character idea I came up with (how many times have I said it...don't listen to the guy who needs sleep for ideas, heh). This might encourage PC immortals to go after rogue types, because of their high skill points. I might opt for the rolling some dice behind the screen and then saying, "ok you get ____ skill points that need to be spent on one or more from the following list." Where ____ is the number of skill points the class had, but this way the player doesn't know this. 2) For the resting bit, maybe you should tie that into how many skill points the Immortal has learned. I.e., a round per skill point?? Just a thought. 3) Also, a thought on the +stat bonus for offing an immortal. I would give it a random chance of affecting each stat. Roll a d6 and go, Ok, rolled a 2, that's Dex. This gives a little bit more flare to the quickening, and also doesn't necessarily mean your PC will be able to chuck small towers at people when their strength reaches the 40's, or whatever is necessary to start whipping around buildings. Of course, in my opinion strength isn't the only thing to calculate into this, there would also be leverage, which is important but now I'm starting to talk physics, and that shouldn't be in the same conversation. 4) As for where the Immortals came from? An idea that I had floating around is that each immortal is an avatar (so to speak) of a god that they may or may not realize. All the gods have agreed to let these avatars fight to decide some contest that each god has some interest in. The gods themselves cannot directly take action, so they must rely on their so-called avatar to carry their name (knowing or unknowingly) to victory. The battle is being fought on the prime and with mortals (so to speak) so that the gods do not disrupt the godly laws of whatever about fighting amongst themselves. For if gods fight, well the lands would suffer. This way they can have their own little battles without destroying the cosmos. Just an idea like I said, and I'm sure I could have narrowed this down to two lines of coherent thought if I tried, but I like to ramble, its fun. :) Ok that's enough for now.
DougC 10-03-04, 02:38 PM	...I certainly wouldn't have a group of immortals wandering around together.... Aww...why not? :D I think the idea of skill points based on what class you opponent had works. As do I. Give props to Dash Props, Dash. :) I might opt for the rolling some dice behind the screen and then saying, "ok you get ____ skill points that need to be spent on one or more from the following list." Where ____ is the number of skill points the class had, but this way the player doesn't know this. I don't know, it seems to me the players would probably be able to figure this one out after a few times, especially if they behead multiple immortals of the same class. As for where the Immortals came from? An idea that I had floating around is that each immortal is an avatar (so to speak) of a god that they may or may not realize. All the gods have agreed to let these avatars fight to decide some contest that each god has some interest in. The gods themselves cannot directly take action, so they must rely on their so-called avatar to carry their name (knowing or unknowingly) to victory. The battle is being fought on the prime and with mortals (so to speak) so that the gods do not disrupt the godly laws of whatever about fighting amongst themselves. For if gods fight, well the lands would suffer. This way they can have their own little battles without destroying the cosmos. This sounds similar, but not quite the same as the gods using their subjects as pawns in a game (another idea that I like), but it is a definite possibility. It's the best "immortal origins" idea I've heard so far, IMO. Edit: Forgot something (I hate sneeze attacks). Something that I've been forgetting since I posted this idea and that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned thus far is The Gathering. My original idea was to have it be a short-run game culminating in The Gathering, which is why I was wanting to have all the PCs be Immortals. However, I suppose you could run a long-term campaign that climaxed with The Gathering. Any thoughts on this?
Didge 10-03-04, 03:01 PM	The skill point not knowing idea works best if your players are kind of dense (mine are, but I don't hold that against them). Of course, you might get into the whole, "why did Frank get 8 skill points for the immortal he killed, and I only got 2?" The only thing I don't like about this method is that it favors the higher skill ranked classes, such as the rogue. I mean, if you knew how many skill points you were going to get, why would you fight the fighter immortal (1st off he's going to be hard to wax with all his fighting prowess anyways)? Have you thought about how you'd handle the skill point bonus if the opponent immortal has PrC's, or is multiclassed? Would they gain the maximum amount? Just my brain rambling on and on. As to the Gathering... Well, if your PC's don't mind knowing that they are gonna off each other in the end, I would say that's ok. Now, I know certain players devise more cunning, stronger, better characters, or are just better tacticians. Have you thought of this, and do you think it will affect things out of character? I've known some very vindictive players, that may say they're ok with Frank off'ing his character, only to retaliate in the next game by off'ing Franks new guy, and finding a way to justify it. A thought might occur to avoid this is to have each of the PC's fight a number of opponents and then if they manage to off all of their respective opponents, then they fight each other? Or maybe they don't. Maybe they choose their friendship over the call of the gathering (some kind of Will save to avoid hacking your buddies head off?) Ok some questions for you to think aobut.
Dash Branaghan 10-04-04, 05:41 AM	Give props to Dash, that idea seems to work best IMHO. Thanks Didge. Muchly appreciated. 3) Also, a thought on the +stat bonus for offing an immortal. I would give it a random chance of affecting each stat. Roll a d6 and go, Ok, rolled a 2, that's Dex. This gives a little bit more flare to the quickening, and also doesn't necessarily mean your PC will be able to chuck small towers at people when their strength reaches the 40's, or whatever is necessary to start whipping around buildings. Well, this would work if the concern was that everyone had higher stats...but such isn't always the case, and probably won't be. An elven Immortal might have a higher Dex, but pretty soon, they won't have higher stats than you. Even with stat points taken into consideration, you only have so far to go. And it isn't likely that someone with a mid level Dex is going to go up to the Elven Immortal and say, "Hey, can you refrain from competing until my Dex is higher...I need to make sure it goes beyond 20, and odds are, yours is higher than that." So while random does make it interesting, the idea here is that they absorb some of the power that the other immortal had, as long as the power exceeds their own. It really isn't all that big a deal unless, as I stated before, you have Storm Giant Immortals or Dragon Immortals. DougC The idea of culminating with the Gathering is solid, but why put an unnecessary timeline in on things? I think it would work more effectively if you had a different end run story, and just had Immortals pop up at really bad times to challenge the PCs. As well, you would have to create a rule that only the person challenged can step up to the fight in a battle between Immortals, especially if you have multiples walking around. And don't forget the joys of paralytic poison use...loads of fun. Just some thoughts. Dash
DougC 10-04-04, 12:38 PM	#4) To cover the helpless feeling, make them Exhausted.... From Highlander d20: The winner of the duel is considered to be “Exhausted” (see Condition Summary in Core Book II or at: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/AbilitiesandConditions.rtf. :D From the SRD: Exhausted: An exhausted character moves at half speed and takes a -6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue. Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued. I don't know, this still seems a bit much to me, but I may not be remembering the movies or series properly. It just seems like I remember the Immortals recovering from the Quickening a bit quicker than this (pun intended :)). I've been reading Highlander d20 and, although it presents some interesting concepts ("First Death" (which I had also forgotten about), "Quickening Points," "Honor," "Quickening Powers," and "Weapon Bond"), I'm not really liking it much as whole (this could be partially due to the insane amounts of typos and grammatical errors making some of it difficult to understand). I like the ideas being presented here better. :) A quick summary: How many "Quickening Points" an Immortal has to begin with depends on on the Immortal's age and are randomly determined (1dX per age category). And, if I understand it correctly, how many "Quickening Points" an Immortal gains from beheading another Immortal is the fallen Immortal's "Quickening Points" plus that Immortal's "Honor Points". For example, an Immortal in the 501-1000 age range gains +1d6 "Quickening Points." If an Immortal has 9 "Quickening Points" and another Immortal beheads him, the surviving Immortal gains 9 "Quickening Points" plus the fallen Immortal's "Honor Score Bonus." "Quickening Points" can also be spent to use "Quickening Powers." I present this information for the chance that it may give some of you some ideas. However, so far, I still like this better: #1) Instead of doing the insta-level, which is tough, give them bonus skill points equal to the dead immortals class (ie. if they kill a rogue, they get 8 bonus skill points, if they kill a fighter, they get 2). The difference is that they don't become overwhelmingly powerful and each class reflects how much one can learn (ie. skills). So that might be a less powerful variation. #2) In conjunction with #1), have them choose a stat to go up in, assuming the immortal killed has any stat higher. Limit it to one stat, and one point. This is not nearly as powerful as it may seem, since it doesn't automatically advance you to the next bonus, and by granting only one stat, it is limited, but allows the characters to develop a concept (ie. dextrous rogue, highly resistant to CDG Constitution characters, etc). :) One thing that they hit on that I think we should consider, though, is the Quickening doing damage to the surrounding area where the Immortal is beheaded. IIRC, this is how it worked in the movies.
Didge 10-04-04, 03:55 PM	It just seems like I remember the Immortals recovering from the Quickening a bit quicker than this (pun intended ). Yup. In the series it was like two Immortals fighting, one lops off the other's head <insert electrical field of force/lightning here> the immortal left shouts/screams, and they fall/stumble/stand still for a moment or two and then either the screen panned away or they were right as rain. One thing that they hit on that I think we should consider, though, is the Quickening doing damage to the surrounding area where the Immortal is beheaded. IIRC, this is how it worked in the movies. Well it HAS to be some kind of lightning damage, doesn't it? Or would you classify it as force. As I recall it was sparks of lightning filling a rather large area. So I purpose this idea below as a solution which would coincide with the amount of power of the Immortal that you whacked. Lightning Sphere Range: Self (0') Area of Effect: 10' Radius +2.5' Radius per level of the Immortal that you whacked. Save: Reflex (maybe Will?) to negate. Damage: 1d6(?) per level of the Immortal that you whacked. Description: This creats a field of electrical sparks that fly from the deceased body, arcing into the individual who whacked him/her and into the surrounding area. (Ok, so make something a little more descriptive, I work with what I have at hand ok?) Ok so the above needs some more fleshing out but this is the idea phase.
DougC 10-04-04, 04:57 PM	Lightning Sphere Range: Self (0') Area of Effect: 10' Radius +2.5' Radius per level of the Immortal that you whacked. Save: Reflex (maybe Will?) to negate. Damage: 1d6(?) per level of the Immortal that you whacked. Description: This creats a field of electrical sparks that fly from the deceased body, arcing into the individual who whacked him/her and into the surrounding area. (Ok, so make something a little more descriptive, I work with what I have at hand ok?) Okay, I like where this is going. Does the surviving Immortal, the winner of the duel, take damage from the Quickening also? What kind of Save is difficult to determine, though. Perhaps Fortitude? I mean, it'd be kind of difficult for an area, structures, inanamite objects, and the like to make a Reflex Save, don't you think? 1d6 per level of the deceased Immortal sounds reasonable to me.
Didge 10-04-04, 06:42 PM	Okay, I like where this is going. Does the surviving Immortal, the winner of the duel, take damage from the Quickening also? I'm not sure, I'd say no, if you want to base it on the original movie (never watched the others hearing horrible reviews) or the series. I'd say yes if you want to keep players in line a bit and have them a little gun-shy about off'ing an Immortal. Especially leads to some interesting questions if the Quickening kills them. This might lead to chain-exploding lightning spheres. Ye-Ouch! What kind of Save is difficult to determine, though. Perhaps Fortitude? I mean, it'd be kind of difficult for an area, structures, inanamite objects, and the like to make a Reflex Save, don't you think? Thus since those items do not HAVE a reflex save, they automatically fail and take damage. The save would be to negate all damage, or at least in my description. Again, feel free to tweak it to something more useable, as I was off in left field with that. Another option is have the Lightning Sphere only deal subdual damage to living tissue. Thus even if an Immortal is weak from his fight, fails whatever save is necessary for the Lightning Sphere, he's not necessarily dead. He may just have been knocked unconscious, as nonlethal damage won't kill him (unless it does double, isn't that how it works...bah don't have the rules in front of me atm).
DougC 10-04-04, 06:53 PM	I'm not sure, I'd say no, if you want to base it on the original movie (never watched the others hearing horrible reviews) or the series. I agree with this. I'd think that the winner of the duel shouldn't take damage, just being helpless for a bit after the Quickening should be enough. :) Believing that one should use all resources available to one, here are some other thoughts on Immortals: Immortal Template-help/comments (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=219894&highlight=immortal+highlander) The Simbul Immortality Level Adjustment (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=265930&highlight=immortal+highlander) The Simbul Rules for "Immortal" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=186021&highlight=immortal+highlander) Diabolic Doppelganger From the Races (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18) forum.
DougC 10-05-04, 10:47 PM	...on the beheading of Immortals (emphasis mine): Resurrection Conjuration (Healing) Level: Clr 7 Casting Time: 10 minutes This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature. The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 years per caster level. Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can’t be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected. Material Component: A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 10,000 gp. True Resurrection Conjuration (Healing) Level: Clr 9 Casting Time: 10 minutes This spell functions like raise dead, except that you can resurrect a creature that has been dead for as long as 10 years per caster level. This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method). Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of level (or Constitution points) or prepared spells. You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures. Even true resurrection can’t restore to life a creature who has died of old age. Material Component: A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 25,000 gp. I mean, being set in a fantasy medieval D&D setting and all. :)
Dash Branaghan 10-06-04, 02:14 AM	Well, the one thing as far as the Ressurection and True Ressurection go is that you require a soul to do that. Since you can rule that the soul is absorbed as part of the Quickening (Soul, Essence, whatever you want to call it), they cannot be restored. It is the same as Trap the Soul or similar spells (or the Void card from the DoMTs...destroy the body afterwards and you still cannot Miracle, Wish or True Res the person back). So I wouldn't worry too much about the spells bringing the immortals back...just rule that their souls are gone. Of course, on that note, you had best alert the player that they will irrevocably lose the character if they die in an Immortal battle. That alone might be enough to keep some people from playing one. Dash
DougC 10-07-04, 11:44 AM	Actually, what had brought the Resurrection spells to my mind in the first place was your statement, Dash, that you wouldn't have Immortals travelling together in a party. At first, I seriously thought, "Why not?" and then the rest of my brain kicked in and I slapped myself on the forehead. :) When I first thought of doing this, sometime early last year, I thought of starting off a campaign with The Gathering and having the losing players roll up characters that would travel with the winning Immortal, firguring that players wouldn't become too attached to characters that they were rolling up for a one-shot adventure anyway. But, I didn't really like that idea even then, and still don't. However, now that I've had time to think about it, what if we were to do it this way?: Going with the "First Death" (and the idea that immortality can be more of a curse than a blessing), when the Immortal first learns that she is Immortal, pehaps we could institute a sort of "Final Death" type thing in which, if an Immortal is resurrected after beheading, she comes back as a mortal. I mean, when attempting to bring a dead character back to life by any means, that character's soul has to be willing to come back. This would give the players the option of continuing to play the character, even if playing it as a mortal. (I'm just not sure that I entirely like the idea of one Immortal absorbing another's "soul" with the Quickening. To me, "soul" and "essence" are two seperate things.) Just a thought. :)
Didge 10-07-04, 12:09 PM	...if an Immortal is resurrected after beheading, she comes back as a mortal. I mean, when attempting to bring a dead character back to life by any means, that character's soul has to be willing to come back. This would give the players the option of continuing to play the character, even if playing it as a mortal. Hmmm... Several things pop to mind here. First I think this is a good idea, and allows for people to come back, in a way. Then my brain started churning out questions based on your statement. My guess is if you can answer these questions, and they make sense, then adapt that aspect. 1) What happens to the character's stats that they've gained through quickening(s)? Do they lose these ability adjustment points? This is what I would suggest, but that's me. Are they still there? Explain why they would still be there? 2) Same line of questioning, only in relation to their skill points that they've gained through quickening(s)? 3) How much of a pain in the rear is this going to be to back-calculate for the player, and is s/he still going to want to play that character without all the cool mod's? 4) Can the PC who just had their Immortal slain roll up a new Immortal? 5) If an Immortal does come back, although they are now mortal, can they become Immortal again by taking another Immortal's head? 6) Do they get their bonus stats/skills back that they previously had if they do off an Immortal? If not, do they get some back? How much? Just several questions that popped into my mind that I thought you might want to address. These questions seem like those that your player(s) might ask if they were playing Immortals and got whacked.
DougC 10-07-04, 01:02 PM	1) What happens to the character's stats that they've gained through quickening(s)? Do they lose these ability adjustment points? This is what I would suggest, but that's me. Are they still there? Explain why they would still be there? At first, I thought maybe it could be equated to an athelete taking steroids, then I remembered that if an athelete stops taking steroids, they lose all "benefits" gained from them. Perhaps how much of the stats gained through the Quickening that are lost could be relative to how long the character was dead before being brought back? 2) Same line of questioning, only in relation to their skill points that they've gained through quickening(s)? I see this one as being the equivalent to the "learning how to ride a bicycle" analogy, once you learn, you never forget. However, I suppose this could work the same as #1. 3) How much of a pain in the rear is this going to be to back-calculate for the player, and is s/he still going to want to play that character without all the cool mod's? Who cares how much of a pain it would be to the player? ;) Seriously, though, I would assist the player with it myself, to lessen the burden to the player. As to the second part of the question, it would probably depend on the player. 4) Can the PC who just had their Immortal slain roll up a new Immortal? I would say that this depends on the DM running such a game. Personally, I would have a finite number of Immortals in the campaign world, a number that only I, the DM, would know, and as long as there were still other Immortals around, then, my answer would be "yes." 5) If an Immortal does come back, although they are now mortal, can they become Immortal again by taking another Immortal's head? This one's a bit easier for me - No. The reason that I say no is that this is not how the Immortal became immortal in the first place, so taking another Immortal's head after becoming mortal should not restore their immortality. 6) Do they get their bonus stats/skills back that they previously had if they do off an Immortal? If not, do they get some back? How much? See my answer to #5, above. Just several questions that popped into my mind that I thought you might want to address. These questions seem like those that your player(s) might ask if they were playing Immortals and got whacked. These are very good questions, but I'm not sure how good my answers are. :) Anyone have any better ideas on how to handle such a situation, should it be used?