"What happens next?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"What happens next?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arrowhen
03-24-07, 06:26 PM Here's a problem I've had with several different groups I've DMed for. Unless the players are faced with an obvious choice of options ("There are two doors, one leading east and one leading west.", "The paladin asks if you'll join him in his holy quest", etc.) I simply can't get them to decide on their own what to do next. They players just sit there passively listening to descriptions and when I stop describing stuff, they just wait for something to happen.

For example, early on in a campaign I ran a while back, the PCs stepped off a ship and into the dock district of a busy port city. They'd been on their way to this city since the beginning of the campaign (the first couple of sessions were spent dealing with some pirates who were disrupting traffic along the coast) for the specific purpose of "looking for adventure." I described the crowded dock district, and threw in several things going on around them that could have led to potential adventure hooks (watch officers hassling some beggars, a small crowd gathered around listening to a wild-eyed priest giving a sermon, two men skulking into an alleyway carrying a suspiciously human-shaped bundle between them, that sort of thing.)

But instead of actively deciding to check out any of these occurrences, they just sat there waiting for me to tell them what happened next. Eventually I gave up and threw a tired old "you get attacked by a press gang and a bystander is impressed by your fighting ability and offers you a job", but it was a really unsatisfying way of moving the game along. Heck, I would have been happy if they'd just decided to go hang out in a tavern and wait for someone to come offer them a job, because at least then they'd be doing something.

Now I suppose I could just interpret this as them being overwhelmed by my awesome descriptive talents, but somehow I don't think this is the case. ;)

Does anyone have any tips on getting players to go out looking for trouble instead of just waiting for it to come to them?
CharlieRock
03-24-07, 06:58 PM Does anyone have any tips on getting players to go out looking for trouble instead of just waiting for it to come to them?
Just the ol' :blink: -face at the end of the descriptionals.
I have the same problem half the time. Last was during a module (DCC #23: the Sunken Ziggurat). The team marched through a swamp, right up to the Ziggurat ... and stood there looking at it. I wanted to make a sign pop out of the ground saying "Go on!" but that would have been too Sam Raimi.
Kouk
03-24-07, 06:59 PM Now I suppose I could just interpret this as them being overwhelmed by my awesome descriptive talents, but somehow I don't think this is the case. ;)

As to being "overwhelmed" I don't know, but they seem to be under the impression from your style that they are watching a movie with fight scenes they happen to choreograph.

After you are done describing the place (which maybe you could tone down) just ask them "What do you do now?". At that point they should ask questions like "Uh, what was happening with those guards again?" or else they were actually paying attention and will have some idea of what is going on. Otherwise just sit back and wait for them to do something on their own, regardless of how long it takes them "in game" to decide.

If they don't say or do anything, maybe they fell asleep?
Angus Cotton
03-24-07, 07:14 PM You need a leader in the party that will take the initiative. Some players, well, they just like to sit back and let things happen to them. They like to listen to the story, rather than take part. You got two choices, get a leader in the player group who will lead them, or use a plot device to motivate the player to take some action.

In my game, I had a player that liked to do this. So, in a encounter with an army of goblins (this is 2nd or 3rd level mind you), instead of the goblins just killing the party, one of the goblin leaders challenged the party member to a duel. The party member agreed if the goblins agreed to let the party go. The goblin and party member dueled and the party member lost (the goblin was like level 20--so not a fair fight). The goblin leader looked down at the party members cut and bruised body, and while the party member was on the edge of consciousness, the goblin cut off his pinky finger. The goblin showed it to the party member and said, "Come for this when you are ready, I'll be waiting"...and the goblin army left the party.

Now, that, as cold a DM trick as it seems, motivated the player. He has been hunting that goblin ever since, especially since he slayed a dragon and is now famous, all the villagers in every town he goes to cheer his name "Ninefingers! All hail the mighty Ninefingers!"--its a praise, but also a reminder. He has just turned level 17 last session with that character, so I see a goblin with a necklace of fingers in the players near future...
a_psh
03-24-07, 07:48 PM This sometimes works...

Think of something that'll provoke an emotional reaction. Don't think about what you expect them to do at all. Throw it in and watch them react.

Putting them in a position to pass moral judgement on someone else usually works pretty well.
CharlieRock
03-24-07, 07:51 PM This sometimes works...

Think of something that'll provoke an emotional reaction. Don't think about what you expect them to do at all. Throw it in and watch them react.

Putting them in a position to pass moral judgement on someone else usually works pretty well.
Or just have certain NPCs with little " ! "s floating over their heads. ;)
Coveredinbeeees
03-24-07, 08:05 PM I agree with Kouk here. Finish your description with the line, "So, what do you do?" If this results in a lengthy discussion amongst the players (and it might well do) threat this, in game, as if the characters are just standing on the docks discussing what to do now that they have arrived in the city. Every so often you can break into their discussion to tell them how the scene around them is changing just to make it clear to them that time is passing in the game as they talk.

If the discussion really does seem to be going nowhere then your updates on the evolving scene could act to make some of the plothooks more tempting. A fervent man breaks out of the crowd listening to the priest and points at him with a cry of "idolator!" One of the men in the alley drops his end of their burden and a head with long auburn hair falls out from amid the sacking and rolls a few feet. One of the guards, enraged by something a beggar may have muttered, launches a volley of vicious kicks at the ragged man where he sits against the wall and looks as though he might end up killing him.

Then again this might just reinforce the idea that, if they wait long enough, interesting things just happen. Hmmm, it seems worth a try in any case.

My group at the minute is at the other end of the spectrum. Every little detail i throw into a description is treated as if it could be significant. This keeps me on my toes as the party often ends up deciding to investigate areas and events that I have not fleshed out at all and need to put together on the fly. On the bright side, since they always discuss their plans ahead of time i frequently have a bit of foreknowledge and can put together something for them. Next session they fully intend to explore an area of forest simply because a stable hand mentioned that "no one hunts in the South forest." This was simply thrown in as a way to help them figure out that the goblins they were hunting for are based in the north forest since the local hunters (currently missing) had spoken of encountering them occasionally. Now they have dealt with the goblins and I have to quickly come up with a back story as to why no one hunts in the south forest these days and seed it with mischievous fey ;)
wizarddog
03-24-07, 08:24 PM Are you asking then "what do you do?" as a group or individually? Try pointing to one player at a time and ask them what do they are doing.

DM (points to player) What are you doing?
Player: What is everyone else doing?
DM: Apparently standing around at the dock. You find it quite boring and your hungry.
Player: Hmm. Can I go find a tavren?
DM Sure. You Leave the group and walk ahead to find a Taveren.
DM: (Points to Player 2) You see Player 1 walking ahead. What do you do? etc.
Wizarddog

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arrowhen 03-24-07, 06:26 PM	Here's a problem I've had with several different groups I've DMed for. Unless the players are faced with an obvious choice of options ("There are two doors, one leading east and one leading west.", "The paladin asks if you'll join him in his holy quest", etc.) I simply can't get them to decide on their own what to do next. They players just sit there passively listening to descriptions and when I stop describing stuff, they just wait for something to happen. For example, early on in a campaign I ran a while back, the PCs stepped off a ship and into the dock district of a busy port city. They'd been on their way to this city since the beginning of the campaign (the first couple of sessions were spent dealing with some pirates who were disrupting traffic along the coast) for the specific purpose of "looking for adventure." I described the crowded dock district, and threw in several things going on around them that could have led to potential adventure hooks (watch officers hassling some beggars, a small crowd gathered around listening to a wild-eyed priest giving a sermon, two men skulking into an alleyway carrying a suspiciously human-shaped bundle between them, that sort of thing.) But instead of actively deciding to check out any of these occurrences, they just sat there waiting for me to tell them what happened next. Eventually I gave up and threw a tired old "you get attacked by a press gang and a bystander is impressed by your fighting ability and offers you a job", but it was a really unsatisfying way of moving the game along. Heck, I would have been happy if they'd just decided to go hang out in a tavern and wait for someone to come offer them a job, because at least then they'd be doing something. Now I suppose I could just interpret this as them being overwhelmed by my awesome descriptive talents, but somehow I don't think this is the case. ;) Does anyone have any tips on getting players to go out looking for trouble instead of just waiting for it to come to them?
CharlieRock 03-24-07, 06:58 PM	Does anyone have any tips on getting players to go out looking for trouble instead of just waiting for it to come to them? Just the ol' :blink: -face at the end of the descriptionals. I have the same problem half the time. Last was during a module (DCC #23: the Sunken Ziggurat). The team marched through a swamp, right up to the Ziggurat ... and stood there looking at it. I wanted to make a sign pop out of the ground saying "Go on!" but that would have been too Sam Raimi.
Kouk 03-24-07, 06:59 PM	Now I suppose I could just interpret this as them being overwhelmed by my awesome descriptive talents, but somehow I don't think this is the case. ;) As to being "overwhelmed" I don't know, but they seem to be under the impression from your style that they are watching a movie with fight scenes they happen to choreograph. After you are done describing the place (which maybe you could tone down) just ask them "What do you do now?". At that point they should ask questions like "Uh, what was happening with those guards again?" or else they were actually paying attention and will have some idea of what is going on. Otherwise just sit back and wait for them to do something on their own, regardless of how long it takes them "in game" to decide. If they don't say or do anything, maybe they fell asleep?
Angus Cotton 03-24-07, 07:14 PM	You need a leader in the party that will take the initiative. Some players, well, they just like to sit back and let things happen to them. They like to listen to the story, rather than take part. You got two choices, get a leader in the player group who will lead them, or use a plot device to motivate the player to take some action. In my game, I had a player that liked to do this. So, in a encounter with an army of goblins (this is 2nd or 3rd level mind you), instead of the goblins just killing the party, one of the goblin leaders challenged the party member to a duel. The party member agreed if the goblins agreed to let the party go. The goblin and party member dueled and the party member lost (the goblin was like level 20--so not a fair fight). The goblin leader looked down at the party members cut and bruised body, and while the party member was on the edge of consciousness, the goblin cut off his pinky finger. The goblin showed it to the party member and said, "Come for this when you are ready, I'll be waiting"...and the goblin army left the party. Now, that, as cold a DM trick as it seems, motivated the player. He has been hunting that goblin ever since, especially since he slayed a dragon and is now famous, all the villagers in every town he goes to cheer his name "Ninefingers! All hail the mighty Ninefingers!"--its a praise, but also a reminder. He has just turned level 17 last session with that character, so I see a goblin with a necklace of fingers in the players near future...
a_psh 03-24-07, 07:48 PM	This sometimes works... Think of something that'll provoke an emotional reaction. Don't think about what you expect them to do at all. Throw it in and watch them react. Putting them in a position to pass moral judgement on someone else usually works pretty well.
CharlieRock 03-24-07, 07:51 PM	This sometimes works... Think of something that'll provoke an emotional reaction. Don't think about what you expect them to do at all. Throw it in and watch them react. Putting them in a position to pass moral judgement on someone else usually works pretty well. Or just have certain NPCs with little " ! "s floating over their heads. ;)
Coveredinbeeees 03-24-07, 08:05 PM	I agree with Kouk here. Finish your description with the line, "So, what do you do?" If this results in a lengthy discussion amongst the players (and it might well do) threat this, in game, as if the characters are just standing on the docks discussing what to do now that they have arrived in the city. Every so often you can break into their discussion to tell them how the scene around them is changing just to make it clear to them that time is passing in the game as they talk. If the discussion really does seem to be going nowhere then your updates on the evolving scene could act to make some of the plothooks more tempting. A fervent man breaks out of the crowd listening to the priest and points at him with a cry of "idolator!" One of the men in the alley drops his end of their burden and a head with long auburn hair falls out from amid the sacking and rolls a few feet. One of the guards, enraged by something a beggar may have muttered, launches a volley of vicious kicks at the ragged man where he sits against the wall and looks as though he might end up killing him. Then again this might just reinforce the idea that, if they wait long enough, interesting things just happen. Hmmm, it seems worth a try in any case. My group at the minute is at the other end of the spectrum. Every little detail i throw into a description is treated as if it could be significant. This keeps me on my toes as the party often ends up deciding to investigate areas and events that I have not fleshed out at all and need to put together on the fly. On the bright side, since they always discuss their plans ahead of time i frequently have a bit of foreknowledge and can put together something for them. Next session they fully intend to explore an area of forest simply because a stable hand mentioned that "no one hunts in the South forest." This was simply thrown in as a way to help them figure out that the goblins they were hunting for are based in the north forest since the local hunters (currently missing) had spoken of encountering them occasionally. Now they have dealt with the goblins and I have to quickly come up with a back story as to why no one hunts in the south forest these days and seed it with mischievous fey ;)
wizarddog 03-24-07, 08:24 PM	Are you asking then "what do you do?" as a group or individually? Try pointing to one player at a time and ask them what do they are doing. DM (points to player) What are you doing? Player: What is everyone else doing? DM: Apparently standing around at the dock. You find it quite boring and your hungry. Player: Hmm. Can I go find a tavren? DM Sure. You Leave the group and walk ahead to find a Taveren. DM: (Points to Player 2) You see Player 1 walking ahead. What do you do? etc. Wizarddog