Post/Author/DateTime	Post
King-bargh 03-20-06, 05:59 AM	I have wondered a bit about how all goblins are warriors. It seems odd to me since the basic goblin are so poorly made for that role and they would be better of with experts, with skills like spot, hide etc! Think about it. Yes we loose some BAB and some hitpoints, but we gain some of the best ambushers/thiefs possible! It would also make new intressting encounters where the goblins sneak in and steal the pc:s stuff, rather then run in shouting. Also the pc:s have to decide if killing thiefs is "good". They can still pick up a morningstar if there is time to get tough. Finaly we can play the goblins more tounge in cheek (?), messing with players mind and temper. Now add a few expert levels to the bugbear for a more scary encounter.... ;)
nyysjan 03-20-06, 07:46 AM	there is no reason to have only goblin warriors, you ca n have goblins of any class of your choice as long as you are willing to stat them out yourself, the examples in M&M are only of most common type the adventurers meet. IMO goblins make also great rogue/monks.
CriminalTruth 03-20-06, 07:59 AM	Goblins have average intellegance...... No one runs them with average intellegance.... :confused: Why do they have to run around and stuff? why cant they have an " eliete force" just like you described? Why limit yourself? Heck.. they can cast clerical spells...have a levels in barbarian, even maybe a wizard or two....they CAN use tatics.. and heck.. if u put say.... an ogre in charge they can even fight effectivly and hold ranks... and.... USE TATICS.... goblins are my best friend..... The diffrence between this edtion and the edition i grew up with is <3 Green skin doesn't burn as easy <3
Chobemaster 03-20-06, 08:51 AM	Because goblin society naturally selects combat ability, but their society isn't advanced enough to generate lots of fighters. (for that matter, most human societies don't generate lots of fighters)
celtredleg 03-20-06, 09:58 AM	Besides if you want small and sneaky we already have Kobolds. Beyond that, there is no reason at all you cant pump them up if you so desire. I like to change most monsters around somewhat because with veteren players they have already seen to many of the same old things. A mob of slicky boy goblins stealing thier stuff might be a fun break from just whacking them all.
FriendoftheDork 03-20-06, 10:34 AM	Warrior isn't such a poor choise. At that level, every +1 to hit is going to matter, as will armor and weapon proficiencies. Also, IMO it takes longer to become an expert than a warrior, and such a character would be made for making things or following a certain profession. Sure, an expert can be better at sneaking and hiding, but without sneak attack brute strenght will overcome it. Also remember goblins are naturally good at sneaking and hiding to begin with, so they might not need more sneaking skills. Alertness seems more important though. Keep in mind though, that goblins have rogue as a favored class, thus is more likely to produce rogues than any other heroic class.
Orcboss 03-20-06, 11:40 AM	Keep in mind though, that goblins have rogue as a favored class, thus is more likely to produce rogues than any other heroic class. And if you really want to make a mess out of low level adventurers, throw a few of those goblin rogues in with the scads of warriors. The warriors will hit off and on, but more importantly, provide plenty of flanking partners.
King-bargh 03-20-06, 11:59 AM	Good arguments for the warrior but just as an example... Goblin expert lvl stat block as goblin warrior except Hitdice 1d6+1 (4 hp) -1 hp Armorclass 14 no shield, but see feats below Attack: morningstar +1 (1d6) javelin +2 (1d4) -1 to hit of course. Skills: Hide +9 (!) Move Silently +9 (!) Spot +3 Listen +3 Tumble +5* Survival +3** Feat: Dodge To compensate for loss of shield, but feel free to change with any other. CR 1/3 Still the same. A rouge would be cr 1, like giving away xp to the players! * Can be replaced with Bluff or any other tactical skill you like ** Can be replaced with any non-combat/livelyhod skill or another tactical skill if you like. Or Ride +9 (!) if a worgrider I didnt change the original abilities because I wanted to see just the effects of a new class. If changed I think a straigth 10-11 line would work best and also signify that any goblin is selected not just the strong but bad-mouthed ones. ;) If I think this is better then the original? Well yes if only 'cause it gives a different challenge, but I DO recognize that the skill-bonus to Mo.Sil. and Ride is to compensate the poor skills of the warriors. Perhaps this can be a mix-in with the regular warriors? :)
Count Arioch the 28th 03-20-06, 12:21 PM	Basically, the goblin warrior is going to be the most likely foe your Cs will fight. Beings with class levels are somewhat rare, and the goblin experts, commoners, and aristocrats won't be as likely to fight you.
King-bargh 03-20-06, 12:31 PM	Ok so I read thru the posts again and frankly FriendofDork and others made some VERY good arguments for the warrior. And for some reason when I looked at the goblin expert again I started to feel like a DM-munckin, and a xp miser as well! Cr 1/3 creatures with abilities like that is a bit too unbalanced. Still I got a thrill out of the idea AND it is an unbalance unlikely to create a TPK..... ;)
LugWrench 03-20-06, 01:23 PM	Simple warriors are the most straight forward class that goblins can produce. Fighters take training, and time to produce. Warriors are, for lack of a better term, mass produced. Thats not to say that goblin fighters dont exist. Goblins, with maybe a little work, can be just about anything. Heck, if you want to make a bunch of PC-class goblins into a SWAT team, you can. Hmmm.... Thats not a bad idea, really..... :D
Count Arioch the 28th 03-20-06, 01:27 PM	I know I threw my Pcs against a pair of goblin soulknives, and they got freaked out.