Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rechan 11-16-07, 06:01 PM	In one of my games, there's a PC in there that is really, really getting on my nerves. He's trying to play the two dimensional "thief" in a campaign that really doesn't facilitate the "steal everything". Every room, every thing they come to, he stops and says, "I roll search for traps, then for loot." It doesn't matter if it's junk on the street, or corpses in a tunnel, he checks each one for traps/loot. The rogue is usually the first one in the room, and so he spends a minute or two just rolling and waiting on me to explain. It slows down play. This is irritating on several levels, but among others, I don't improv well. And when he rolls really good on a search check, I feel obligated to toss some sort of loot their way, but I am bad at just picking something valuable out of the air. How do I break him of this cycle? One PC is chanting "Cursed Item Cursed Item". But the rogue in question doesn't ever touch anything he finds; he picks it up with gloved fingers and puts it in a pocket to look at later.
High Octane 11-16-07, 06:06 PM	This is irritating on several levels, but among others, I don't improv well. And when he rolls really good on a search check, I feel obligated to toss some sort of loot their way, Don't. If it doesn't exist, no search check in the WORLD should find it. If he keeps finding extra things with good search checks, he will keep making search checks until he finds something else. If he stops finding extra things with obscene search checks, he will stop. You must understand that people are just glorified Pavlovian dogs. With custom ringtones.
taradusis 11-16-07, 06:20 PM	Tell him he doesn't find crap.
rimble 11-16-07, 06:21 PM	First, stop letting his rolls dictate loot. Loot is either there or isn't. Second, just do one roll for the entire room and get on with life. In a 15' square room: Him: I search the room for traps and loot! *gets a 32* You: After about a minute (9 squares x 6 seconds a square = 45 seconds) of searching you find the following items of interest: a fine hairbrush with gold filigree and a shiny dagger. I generally don't include secret doors in this 'one check for the entire room' Search method, that needs to be a little more purposeful. Finally, just skip to the chase where appropriate: Him: I search the room for traps and loot! *grabs his d20 to roll but you cut him off...* You: After about a minute you find nothing of interest. Don't let him sit there rolling for the entire room if there's nothing there...tell him how much time it took, tell him there is nothing, and move on.
Radijs 11-16-07, 06:22 PM	Actually in a latrine he SHOULD find... Ah well...
weasel0 11-16-07, 06:51 PM	Little chocolate goodies!
VulcanStormwrath 11-16-07, 06:54 PM	Actually in a latrine he SHOULD find... Ah well... Diseases. Well that and PARAGON OTYUGHS!
Master_Vega 11-16-07, 07:04 PM	Seriously, if he searches a latrine you should tell him about something disgusting he finds there. In fact, the higher he rolls, the more disgusting the description.
ppirilla 11-16-07, 08:38 PM	As above posters mentioned, searching for loot is searching the room for loot. Searching for traps is more specific, but there aren't generally many things that could possibly be trapped (the floor, doors, chests, and your occasional other piece of furniture.) Now, do you need to do something to discourage his behavior? Maybe not, if you can find ways to generalize his rolls. If you really think you do, then give him some "traps" in disguise. For example, when looting a corpse, he finds a silver scepter and picks it up with a gloved hand. "Okay, *roll d20 behind the screen* Oops, you grabbed the pressure-sensitive trigger to the wand of _insert nasty spell of your choice_. Make a reflex save."
Cifer 11-16-07, 08:44 PM	By the way: The "Touch with gloves only" is a nice idea, but doesn't work in D&D - otherwise, "touch attacks" through a suit of full plate (or, in the case of an inflicting cleric: two suits of full plate, the cleric's and the enemy's) would be somewhat senseless. In general, as soon as you pick up or manipulate something, the curse gets to work.
Salla 11-16-07, 08:50 PM	Tell him he doesn't find crap. But the thread title says he's searching a latrine. Crap should be the main thing he finds. :) Anyway, yeah ... if there's nothing there to find, he doesn't find anything. You may also want to mention that he's being really annoying and wasting a lot of time searching for stuff in a place where there's no logical place for stuff to be.
tharivol266 11-16-07, 09:26 PM	you could always pause for as long as it takes him to search in game before you tell him what he finds "i take 20 to search the entire 15'^2 room" *delays 18 minutes*"you dont find anything"
Kitep 11-16-07, 09:38 PM	1) As others have said, if you keep adding loot because he rolls, he going to keep rolling. Don't add loot just because he gets a good roll. 2) If he wants to search every room, let him. Just tell him that you're assuming that's what he's doing unless he tells you otherwise. When you make the dungeon, roll then to decide if he finds the trap. Then when playing, you don't need to roll. If the pre-roll found it, let him know. If it didn't, that's fun too :) 3) Touching with gloves is still touching.
Novem 11-16-07, 09:40 PM	As it has been mentioned, whenever he searches corpses, latrines, and other inappropriate places, describe gross stuff. Furthermore, not only increase the description with the search roll, increase the grossness of the procedure. If a person gets a 40 on their check to examine a latrine, say they've stuck their fingers in it, smelled it, etc., to get such an obscene result. Now for actual advice: Have you tried talking with the player out-of-game? If not, you should.
Enmarnacu 11-17-07, 12:03 AM	In accordance with the Pavlovian dog argument, finding traps more often would stop him from searching. And I don't mean, "You rolled a 32? You found a trap on the wall that you may now disable." I mean, he rolls low for trap, BAM, there's a trap there that otherwise may not have existed and he set it off. High reflex save, low damage. Repeat. More insidious, but positive punishment works wonders. Or you could just talk to him out of game, as Novem said.
Andorxor 11-17-07, 01:26 AM	Finding more traps will not stop him searching,because finding traps is a good thing.Missing traps and triggering them is bad.
Galaktia 11-17-07, 02:49 AM	It has been said alot but it needs reinforcing *winks* A search roll is not a magical portal to bring loot into exsistance, loot exsists or it doesn't, for instance, They just found a dead body in a sewer. he rolls search. "You find a dead body" he rolls search on the body just to annoy you, "You find a smelly dead body with dirty clothes and a few cuts, and now your gloves are coated in such unthinkable muck that you'll require serious cleaning if you ever want to get rid of the smell." As people have said, cut him off, don't let him kill off the game because he is a pedantic rear end. As for curses, it depends on the curse, but if it is an on contact curse and not an on use curse then you could pick it up with a pair of lead lined steel reinforced 2 inch thick gauntlets and it'd still curse you. Magic of that sort is not stopped by mundane things. Other bits of advice for training your disruptive pet.... I mean player.... 1) Penalize him for holding up the game, if he wants to spend the next 2 hours in game and out search a room, get the rest of the party to leave him to it and continue deeper into the dungeon, then have an umberhaulk wander in and beat his pathetic little head against the wall. 2) Give him access to a chance to pinch something really valuable, then have him arrested for it, because it was so obvious that he stole it cause he is the OCD klepto theif.
DMDaddy 11-17-07, 03:35 AM	All of my players were (were) obsessive compulsive with searching every square inch. I did what most here are saying PLUS, I took the roll away from them. I make all the search checks for my players. This way they don't know how well they've done. This one thing alone has made a big difference. Many times I also just brush off their requests for search checks by saying, "you don't find anything" with no rolls made. I change it up much to keep them on their toes.
CCS 11-17-07, 03:50 AM	How do I break him of this cycle? One PC is chanting "Cursed Item Cursed Item". But the rogue in question doesn't ever touch anything he finds; he picks it up with gloved fingers and puts it in a pocket to look at later. If you don't have anything of value planned, just have him find a stray coin - 1 cp, 1 sp, maybe even 1 gp.... He won't really "gain" anything. Better, it's a perfect setup.... Because after finding (& likely ignoring) bits of copper over & over, when he does find that GP, he'll almost certainly pocket it. And then the "fun" can begin. IE; whatever curse effects you deem amusing. Or deadly. Depending upon your mood. And wearing gloves? That doesn't prevent curses. :)
Mock26 11-17-07, 06:29 AM	In my opinion he shouldn't be making the search rolls. You should! His character, no matter how good he is at detecting traps, will upon inspection only know one of two outcomes, either he found a trap or he didn't find a trap. You have to remember that if he doesn't find a trap it doesn't neccessarily mean that it isn't trapped. It only means that he didn't find it. I think that this philosophy should apply to all search rolls, be it for traps, for hidden ninja pirates, for loot, and everything else. One reason that I think the DM should roll searches is that it helps maintain the "illusion" of being in character.
Mock26 11-17-07, 06:30 AM	You must understand that people are just glorified Pavlovian dogs. With custom ringtones. Woof! Woof!
kelvinaw273 11-17-07, 06:57 AM	Oh I have run into this before ... 1) Searching takes TIME. Buffing spells expire, While he is 'searching' have other things happen. "OK, while the rogue searches, what do the rest of you do?" is a good opener. Or, "While the rogue is searching the room, you hear footsteps behind you ..." When the rogue tries to join in, remind him that he is searching and that he cannot. 2) Searching does not turn up anything if there is nothing there. Rogue: "I rolled a 32! What do I find?" DM: "Some rat droppings in the corner, a moldy patch of carpet and a loose floorboard in the middle of the room." R: "Is it trapped?" Rolls a 28. DM: "It does not appear to be trapped." R: "I prise it up, what is underneath?" DM: "A support beam. Sitting on the top is an odd square of slightly rusted steel." R: "Is it trapped?" Rolls a 33. DM: "Apparently not." R: "I pick it up." DM: "It does not move. However, it does rotate counterclockwise with some effort." R: "I turn it." DM: "Nothing seems to happen, although it will turn further." R: "I keep turning it!" DM: "Eventually it comes away in your hand. On the inside was a hole into which a spiral groove thread has been cut. In the beam is a circular hole the same size. Make a listen check." R: "I got a 29!" DM: "You clearly hear the thunderous crash of a massive cast iron chandelier landing on a table, screams of agony and howls of fury amid the sound of breaking glass, and a voice roaring for guards. From the stairway outside comes the sound of booted feet. LOTS of booted feet! I hope you have about five thousand gold pieces ready to hand, because that's the value of the chandelier you just destroyed ..." :devil:
Etarnon 11-17-07, 01:42 PM	Alternatively, look up how long it takes to search said room in the DMG. Then when the player says, I search for traps, start a real stopwatch / timer. DM: "Okay you start searching for traps. What is the rest of the party doing?" [Typically, they'll roleplay in character.] If Rogue guy says one word while doing the intense search, tell him "your concentration is beginning to be lost, from talking and searching at the same time. Every word you utter, -1 to the roll. (or something like that)" After the REAL time taken (Which should be some minutes) Expires, say: DM: "Okay, you have searched this one area. I am rolling your detect traps. (roll it for him, behind the screen). You find no traps, or it is hidden better than you can detect. Since you have searched the entire area the loot you find is - Mouldy Bag -Twigs -leaves -Orc urine in a pool -Rat droppings -a few roaches in a corner -Roach droppings etc etc etc. Any sort of crap you'd find lying on the ground. DM: "You are pretty certain, if there was a trap, you'd have found it, but...there MIGHT be a trap that would certainly kill you, and half the party, if you don't search further. Would you like to search again?" Player: Certainly. DM (Start stopwatch, rinse, repeat.) I'm pretty much going to guarantee after half a dozen of these little check for traps mini scenarios, two things will happen. 1. The party will bond, as they talk about their characters in character, jack around with each other, make jokes about the paranoid rogue, etc. And the rogue is missing out, intently searching as he is. 2. The party leaders, if any will put a boot in his arse to get it in gear and press on. Maybe both. Drag it out. Ensure that OOC talk is kept to a minimum, that the party stays in character. Encourage others to leave the guy behind, maybe to get ambushed, once or twice, by himself, while he collects dog droppings, and splinters from the ground. But perhaps, one of these things might be useful, perhaps to a wizard as material components, perhaps not. He's got to learn to curb his urge for free gear. Alternatively, let him find: 100 lbs of bronze bars, very awkward to carry, worth about 10 CP each. Old, rusty two handed swords, that might be melted down. Piles of logs, worth 10 cp per 10 lbs. Stuff that, when picked up is worth more trouble to carry than not, and puts the party in jeapardy by slowing movement, and encumbering them. Good luck, and when people complain this is slowing the game, say "Talk to the thief, I'm not there." In addition, roll all traps rolls secret. And don't put in much of anything useful, if there was nothing there. He doesn't know if he found a trap or not, unless he found one or sprung it. Read the traps rules carefully, and use them to the full extent of the law, along with hard core traps, poisons, etc. You might find that instead of being a chore, you come to enjoy the interaction of it. Certainly the rest of the party might learn something about traps, too. I wouldn't see this guy as a problem, more of a challenge of my knowledge and creativity on the fly as a DM. That's exactly how I'd handle it, Good luck.
Rechan 11-17-07, 03:35 PM	Unfortunately, this is an online game. So extended pauses to reflect real time are more like having to go to the bathroom; no one gets naything, really.
danielinthewolvesden 11-17-07, 03:39 PM	In one of my games, there's a PC in there that is really, really getting on my nerves. He's trying to play the two dimensional "thief" in a campaign that really doesn't facilitate the "steal everything". Every room, every thing they come to, he stops and says, "I roll search for traps, then for loot." It doesn't matter if it's junk on the street, or corpses in a tunnel, he checks each one for traps/loot. The rogue is usually the first one in the room, and so he spends a minute or two just rolling and waiting on me to explain. It slows down play. Why do you let him roll? Players roll when you say so. He can say "I search" and you can say "You find nothing". Tell the players to only roll when you say so. More or less as rimble said. And I suggest strongly you do not let him steal fromt he party. Just ignore his attempts to and if he persists tell him to stop- OOC.
DMDaddy 11-17-07, 04:07 PM	Oh I have run into this before ... 1) Searching takes TIME. Buffing spells expire, While he is 'searching' have other things happen. "OK, while the rogue searches, what do the rest of you do?" is a good opener. Or, "While the rogue is searching the room, you hear footsteps behind you ..." When the rogue tries to join in, remind him that he is searching and that he cannot. This is also a good point about search that I find effective. Sometimes the search finds nothing and takes 4 rounds to do it, meanwhile the other players find loot sitting out in the open and are having fun pillaging.
Alastar 11-17-07, 05:04 PM	The great Oaksparr (may his children be numerous) has once said this about search checks: Make him go into <<find traps mode>> He rolls once, moves at half speed, and is ALWAYS LOOKING FOR TRAP or other things WITH THE SAME CHECK. Yes, it is a bit disadvantageous for the player, but it speeds the game up by a x3 modifier. And you can always drop in the surprise on them if he isnt high enough to spot it ! :)
Entropy_Judge 11-17-07, 05:28 PM	He's searching latrines and corpses? Well then, he'll get surprised by a ghoul/ghast/carrion crawler. That's what? Near automatic paralyzation, probably a full round of attacks by said monster, and maybe the party'll get there in time to save him . . ..
Cartigan 11-17-07, 05:35 PM	"You find a latrine." "I search for traps and loot." That happened two weeks ago, we kept running into empty rooms and the DM didn't bother to tell us they were latrines. "I search the room" "You find poo."
Someone 11-18-07, 12:49 AM	"My name's Mike Rowe, and this is my job." That's the only compare of the apparent enthusiasm the PC has for getting into the nastiest, smelliest muck hole he can find.
Etarnon 11-18-07, 01:02 AM	Unfortunately, this is an online game. So extended pauses to reflect real time are more like having to go to the bathroom; no one gets naything, really. Okay well then over the next three scenarios, just ask the player to stop, tell him to stop, then fire him. Problem solved.
ORC_Paradox 11-18-07, 07:04 AM	In every game I've DMed, I'd have such players find a single gold piece. And every play that had any brains (which was all of them...) said, "I do NOT touch it." The idea was from an encounter in the original Ruins of Undermountain. Character find a single gold coin, and when they pick it up, it gets hot and burns as if it were acid down multiple levels of the dungeon. Not a single coin that I used would ever react that way. But sometimes the paranoia of having just one gold coin out in the open is OBVIOUSLY a trap. :) Usually it was just some random NPC that passed by earlier with a hole in his pocket, and never saw he dropped the coin. I wonder if a dragon horde should have piles of the melty coins....
Man in the Funny Hat 11-18-07, 03:46 PM	Every room, every thing they come to, he stops and says, "I roll search for traps, then for loot." It doesn't matter if it's junk on the street, or corpses in a tunnel, he checks each one for traps/loot. The rogue is usually the first one in the room, and so he spends a minute or two just rolling and waiting on me to explain. It slows down play.First, it's my experience that such behavior is LEARNED. The player searches everything because at some point he's had the experience that to FAIL to search everything will result in losing the best treasure and getting hit with the worst traps. If you enter a room and fail to search every insignificant inch of it you'll miss the bolt trap with save-or-die poison. If he entered the room and saw the latrine and ignored it, he may believe that you're smirking behind your DM screen knowing that THAT is where the actual treasure is. The answer to the character who searches EVERYTHING is to have them find NOTHING. If you haven't put anything there to find DON'T MAKE ANYTHING UP, DON'T ROLL DICE, AND IGNORE THE PLAYERS DICE ROLLS. Make a POINT of ignoring the players dice rolls. Roll your EYES, stare directly at the player, get his full undivided attention, and state calmly and clearly: "It's a latrine. You find what latrines normally hold..." You might even want to go so far as to state, "NO. You do NOT search this area nor at this time because you have absolutely no clue nor appropriate motivation that it makes sense to do so and if you persist in this behavior I will start treating your character as appropriately mental - the D&D equivalent of a street person who talks to people who aren't there, except you're a rogue who looks for treasure and traps that just aren't there. Actually, the best approach is to simply talk to the player outside of the game and explain how and why he's being disruptive. Tell him that you are not out to screw him or his character out of treasure, nor trying to spring traps on him out of the blue at every opportunity. Therefore the player needs to understand a few things. One is that it is not your job to find every trap and hidden treasure. Part of the game includes the assumption that you will NOT find everything - even when you're looking for it - so STOP TRYING. The player must then also accept the fact that he WILL be caught by traps that he never looked for and that he WILL fail to find all the treasure. You would thus appreciate it if the player would curtail his efforts along these lines to more reasonable levels, searching at times and places that are more appropriate and sensible.
vagabonvoid 11-18-07, 04:22 PM	Drop a Load.................................... .............Stone Seriously, when a character gets too 2-d rogue in a campaign I leave a loadstone where the rogue can grab it. Screws them over big time.
MrCustomer 11-18-07, 04:27 PM	When you go outside in the rain you put your shoes on. You do this without calling out to everyone in the house "I am going to put my shoes on" and in a game it should just be assumed that your character puts his shoes on when going outside. Thus the PC in question and the DM should just use the "Take 10" rule. The rogue is a thief and makes a living from stealing everything that isn't bolted down so naturally is always on the loook for something to grab, as this poses a risk he is always weary of getting caught or a trap. So he naturally checks his surroundings. Tell him he doesn't need to always declare and roll for traps and loot, unnless it is a particularly dangerous or well hidden area (a tomb or vault or locked door in a dungeon) that you will assume he is aware and taking "10" and will be keeping an eye out for traps and loot. explain that this isn't a video game and that you don't drop loot randomly under every bed and bush he encounters.
Dog_O_War 11-18-07, 05:39 PM	Short story for you folks... ...a few summers ago, I was at my grandmother's house, which is in the middle of nowhere in Saskatchewan. My cousin, who is about 5 years younger than me was really into the Yu-Gi-Oh cardgame (I was familiar with it, as I'm a big kid and watch all sorts of cheesy cartoons). He would constantly ask if I wanted to play, and down-playing my own enthusiasm (I love card-games) I said "sure". After a while, I started calling him "Yuug" in a similar fashion to how Joey says his name in the show. Fast-Forward to January that year; I'm at my buddies' place talking about random crap, when I bring up the summer's events. For about a week, we were calling each other Yuug. Then, he (my friend) gets this lightning-bolt idea; "yuug" sounds pretty orky, like how you'd refer to the toilet as a john.:D Next game of D&D we played, we fought some orcs and were looting the bodies. He said we found an orcish yuug. I kept a grin suppressed until one of the other players said "I search it for stuff". This guy was no noob, but wasn't privvy to said conversation.;) So if you ever need to deter a heavy-looter, just keep giving him the yuug. What is a yuug? A yuug is a large leather sack with scent-breaking herbs smeared around the draw-string opening. It is what a mobile band of orcs will use to releave themselves in, so as not leaving behind a "trail" for their enemies to follow. Also makes a great intimidation device when full.
Draco_Whitewind 11-19-07, 12:11 AM	I'm sorry, I really don't see what is so wrong. Rogues after all are supposed to find and disarm almost all (99%) of the traps, thats their job. if you take to rolling it, he'll learn to take 20 on the most predictable squares really. and triggering them is the matter of a UMD with a summon monster I wand to keep himself safe. as far as the loot handling, the posters in here need to grow up. Seriously, Loot is loot. the player knows what it means, and so does the DM, and the DM shouldn't be a Dbag right back to get the player out of the habit. Just talk to him out of the game, seriously. That SHOULD work, as long as you then don't go and pull a bajillion + 1 traps from then on.
danielinthewolvesden 11-19-07, 12:16 AM	When you go outside in the rain you put your shoes on. You do this without calling out to everyone in the house "I am going to put my shoes on" and in a game it should just be assumed that your character puts his shoes on when going outside. Thus the PC in question and the DM should just use the "Take 10" rule. The rogue is a thief and makes a living from stealing everything that isn't bolted down so naturally is always on the loook for something to grab, as this poses a risk he is always weary of getting caught or a trap. So he naturally checks his surroundings. Tell him he doesn't need to always declare and roll for traps and loot, unnless it is a particularly dangerous or well hidden area (a tomb or vault or locked door in a dungeon) that you will assume he is aware and taking "10" and will be keeping an eye out for traps and loot. explain that this isn't a video game and that you don't drop loot randomly under every bed and bush he encounters. I do the same thing. It saves a LOT of time.
Nall_The_Azure_Guardian 11-19-07, 12:42 AM	That happened two weeks ago, we kept running into empty rooms and the DM didn't bother to tell us they were latrines. "I search the room" "You find poo." :D my group did this too We pushed the rouge in the second he started his search good times good times
Napoleon_the_Clown 11-19-07, 01:30 AM	He finds a door hidden carefully in the floor. When he goes down it the door slams shut before anyone else can get through. As soon as the door shuts he's teleported to an unknown location and is promptly eaten by the Tarrasque. Or just make him find nothing while the rest of the party moves on with life.
Ayra 11-19-07, 08:25 AM	Search takes time, which can sometimes be quite tricky. If you spend a large amount of time searching through a room, you may stumble upon a few enemy scouts/patrols, or some other time-based events take place. Searching through a room for 18 minutes, means that any enchantment they have cast that only lasts 10 to 20 minutes is about to end or has ended. Also other time-based factors could become an issue. If you have to save captives from lizardfolk that are about to eat them, you're hard pressed on your time and will unlikely spend more than a few seconds searching through rooms for traps. If he still insists on doing so, just confront them with the harsh reality that the captives are dead and they failed their mission.
wrecan 11-19-07, 09:45 AM	Isn't the point of "taking 20" to stop all this nonsensical rolling for traps/loot? If you want him to stop, make it boring. Thief: "I check for traps" {grabs die} DM: "Just take 20." Thief: "Um... okay." {puts down die} DM: "You find nothing." Thief: "What? That's it? But taking 20 means IO got a 42!" DM: "Yes, nothing." Turns to the party. DM: "Now, you hear goblinoid grunting from the other door, and perhaps the whimper of a maiden in distres..." Minimize it. If you reduce is trap/loot checks to a two-sentence exchange -- "I take 20 to search for loot and traps"/"You find nothng." -- at worst, you wasted five seconds of play. And that way, every so often, you throw in a trap for him to disable or loot to find, but you do it on your own terms, and not have loot magically appear because he searched it into existence.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 11-19-07, 11:09 AM	And when he rolls really good on a search check, I feel obligated to toss some sort of loot their way, Well there's your problem. You are positively rewarding him for this behavior, letting him know time and time again that if he keeps rolling all the time he will eventually get something. The problem is of your creation, and you can fix it by stopping rewarding him for it.
Nephlite 11-19-07, 11:55 AM	Isn't the point of "taking 20" to stop all this nonsensical rolling for traps/loot? If you want him to stop, make it boring. Thief: "I check for traps" {grabs die} DM: "Just take 20." Thief: "Um... okay." {puts down die} DM: "You find nothing." Thief: "What? That's it? But taking 20 means IO got a 42!" DM: "Yes, nothing." Turns to the party. DM: "Now, you hear goblinoid grunting from the other door, and perhaps the whimper of a maiden in distres..." Minimize it. If you reduce is trap/loot checks to a two-sentence exchange -- "I take 20 to search for loot and traps"/"You find nothng." -- at worst, you wasted five seconds of play. And that way, every so often, you throw in a trap for him to disable or loot to find, but you do it on your own terms, and not have loot magically appear because he searched it into existence. Alternatively: tell him, there are no more traps that you put in so he can stop searching for them. Problem solved: He doesn't waste time om search for them because there is none.
Phelix_the_Warrior 11-19-07, 12:04 PM	did someone say Mimic? cause I think someone said mimic! also I have a problem like this, except my rogue just doesn't bother with traps (he walks into them purposefully then asks for a heal from the healers, who always agree) I'm thinking on putting in a trap that will kill him next......but Im not sure if thats too harsh
nightwing 11-19-07, 12:34 PM	I tend to think that if a character is wasting so much "in game" time, he's not nearly afraid enough. Wandering monsters should be a good motivation to keep moving. The longer you dally, the more likely you are to be discovered. The odd cp is not worth being ambushed by a group of well-armed patrolling sentries. Make it painful.
Master_Vega 11-19-07, 01:06 PM	I tend to think that if a character is wasting so much "in game" time, he's not nearly afraid enough. Wandering monsters should be a good motivation to keep moving. The longer you dally, the more likely you are to be discovered. The odd cp is not worth being ambushed by a group of well-armed patrolling sentries. Make it painful. Hmm... an adventure with a similar type enemy to the Nemesis in Resident Evil 3 would work. A slow, CR "oh crap" monster with a powerful ranged attack (so they can't just fight while retreating just outside of it's move/reach) is chasing the party through the dungeon/mansion/city/whatever mostly-indoor place you like. Give them in-game hints that the beast is nigh-undefeatable in a straight out battle. Though I suppose this might only change your rogue's attitude from "I search for traps and loot" to "I search for things I can use to MacGyver a trap, so I can slow the thing down."
Legdiwena 11-19-07, 02:56 PM	Wouldn't Nemesis be a mini-Tarrasque?
Shiftkitty 11-19-07, 04:05 PM	When he was a low-level wizard, the Mighty Uff would actually reach into seat cushions on furniture looking for loose change. I had something grab him and yank him off to another dimension. Rescuing him was quite an adventure in and of itself. After that he tipped sofas and whatnot over looking for loose change, but he never stuck his hand in again.
Pagan_Rogue 11-19-07, 04:40 PM	Hey, what's with all the rogue bashing? Sounds to me like Pavlov was on the right track, and this is a rogue that has either been burned big time or fears of being burned. I played a game where traps turned up in the oddest places, and the one time I would stop annoying the group and not check was the time we half the party fell into a pit trap. There is some mighty fine advice posted here. Don't give loot if it really wasn't there. Tell the rogue his search check is good for X time or X space. Let the rogue have a little fun. Searching is one of the things they do. And please, please, don't boobytrap loot for him. That's mean, and then you'll have a more paranoid rogue on your hands. A little out of game talking could solve this whole problem, if you can give him your word that he won't be surprised and dead the first moment he stops being paranoid about traps and treasure. Good luck!
Balseraph 11-19-07, 07:58 PM	I agree with the common sense angle here: have a nice chat with the player out-of-game and tell them that you're not trying to screw them out of treasure or into traps, you're just concerned that all the searching is slowing down the pace. Another thing to do is to describe rooms in such a way as it becomes obvious which places are searchable and which are not. That way it clues the rogue's player in and lets him really shine by finding the secret compartments in desks, etc... If nothing else works then, sure, I'd go with just telling him that he takes his time, searches the room, and finds nothing of note. Another thing I use when wanting to keep up adventure pace is to put them on a time-limit one way or another. It's not possible to take a 20 when that amount of time would have you neck-deep in trouble! :P ---------------------------------------------- Rogue: I start searching every foot of the room! DM: <makes some rolls quietly> After about a minute you start to hear low-volume sounds in the background, it could be voices. Rogue: Ok, I search faster! DM: You're not taking a 20 anymore, ok? Make me a search roll and let's see what you get. Rogue: Uh... 17? DM: Ok, you know it will take you 6 seconds to search each 5'x5' square and the room is 15x25 so it will take you just over an hour to search the entire room! Rogue: How far away are those sounds? DM: <rolls some more> Mmm... it's unclear, but they're getting a little louder. Rogue: What exactly is in the room again? DM: <checking points on his description> Shelves, desk, cupboards, dust. Rogue: How long to check the furniture only? DM: <calculates quickly> Around thirty seconds. Rogue: Um. I'll do that then! <rolls and ends up with a 23> DM: Right! You find <checks his notes> 6gp in loose coin, an ornate letter opener with jade inlay, 12 sheets of nice vellum, and several out-of-fashion but clean outfits - which, on searching through the pockets, yield a silver ring with a setting of three small rubies, and a small pouch containing 4 small gems.
Mock26 11-20-07, 01:52 AM	I still want to know why you are letting him make any of these search rolls. Why aren't you making them for him?
FearTheBat 11-20-07, 02:29 AM	It seems to me that he needs to come across a duck. ;)
Ayra 11-20-07, 03:47 AM	Isn't the point of "taking 20" to stop all this nonsensical rolling for traps/loot? If you want him to stop, make it boring. Thief: "I check for traps" {grabs die} DM: "Just take 20." Thief: "Um... okay." {puts down die} DM: "You find nothing." Thief: "What? That's it? But taking 20 means IO got a 42!" DM: "Yes, nothing." Turns to the party. DM: "Now, you hear goblinoid grunting from the other door, and perhaps the whimper of a maiden in distres..." Minimize it. If you reduce is trap/loot checks to a two-sentence exchange -- "I take 20 to search for loot and traps"/"You find nothng." -- at worst, you wasted five seconds of play. And that way, every so often, you throw in a trap for him to disable or loot to find, but you do it on your own terms, and not have loot magically appear because he searched it into existence. The whole point of searching is a time issue. If you search quickly, you might miss some things. If you search moderately (take 10), it takes a bit longer and you may still miss some things. If you search to the best of your efforts (take 20), it takes a really long time before you're done. Time can be important for some campaigns. Wandering monsters, as mentioned before, but also time pressed adventures where the princess needs to be saved before she is defiled and eaten. Failing a mission because you spent 2 hours to search a room for traps will eventually get on the PC's nerves and they'll be forced to spend less time searching. Additionally, I think it's a good thing the PCs search for traps and loot. In a time pressed situation they may skip the loot part, but searching for traps is one essential part of dungeoneering. Traps can be very deadly, because a trap doesn't only go off, it also makes sound. Probably enough sound to alert some nearby monsters to deal some nasty damage while you're still suffering the bad sideeffects of the trap. I still want to know why you are letting him make any of these search rolls. Why aren't you making them for him? I wholeheartedly agree. If he doesn't know what he has rolled, he can decide to either search again (and spend more time) or rely on the roll the DM made and go on with the adventure. If your PCs decide that searching is important, you shouldn't try to change their attitude.. you shouldn't reward it either. You could make adventures were you closely mind time and you could make dungeons where searching is necessary because they're filled with traps, secret doors and hidden loot.
DMDaddy 11-20-07, 12:33 PM	I still want to know why you are letting him make any of these search rolls. Why aren't you making them for him? If you don't make them for him, then everytime he rolls a 1, 2, or 3 he will just search and roll again untill he gets high enough to be satisfied. The players are not suppose to know the results. However, sometimes when I roll searches for my players, if I get an 18, 19, or 20, I inform them that they made a near perfect search, then the results: "you found nothing" or "you find something". Likewise I do the same for a 1, 2, or 3.
Radijs 11-20-07, 02:04 PM	did someone say Mimic? cause I think someone said mimic! also I have a problem like this, except my rogue just doesn't bother with traps (he walks into them purposefully then asks for a heal from the healers, who always agree) I'm thinking on putting in a trap that will kill him next......but Im not sure if thats too harsh For that you could alternatively use a trap that paralyzes the rogue for a while. (An hour or two) In dumb parties there's generally a lack of a on-demand remove paralasys.
HermitIX 11-20-07, 02:12 PM	For the record I played module once where there was a +1 dagger in a latrine. We found out after the module was over, no one searched the latrine at the time.
Nephlite 11-20-07, 02:54 PM	For the record I played module once where there was a +1 dagger in a latrine. We found out after the module was over, no one searched the latrine at the time. I found a diamond in the Latrine when my Wu Jen searched the Frost Giants Bathroom area. I had to roll a Fort dave versus filtth fever and stunk until I cast prestigidation (love how it cleans/makes things smell better), but it was worth it. Btw: Blue Diamond (5k gp) Best part it was totally in character. My charactrer has a curious nature (which is why is not in Asian land besides the main backstory parts).