Animal Abuse [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Abuse [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sythys
04-23-06, 11:39 AM Here's the situation...

3rd lv Barbarian has fallen asleep at guard. A Goblin warparty awoke him and he realized his sword had fallen to the ground. He has no time to awaken his companions or reach his sword, and <for some insane reason.... I let him keep the rope> has his 40 feet of rope over his shoulder.

The significance is this. He lassoed one of the parties horses. <the paladin's mount> and then whipped the horse around his head like a flail...

I ended the game right there....

But it brought up an interesting question... what would be the damage be on a war mount when used as a bludgeoning weapon?
Steel Cobra
04-23-06, 11:49 AM How much strength did he have, 30, 40?

No way i would even aloow that. And how did the pally feel about it?
Solikawa
04-23-06, 11:53 AM Wow... just wow...
Mogarth_Warheart
04-23-06, 11:57 AM that is the single most awsome thing i have ever herd for the useage of a mount
Milandros
04-23-06, 11:59 AM I presume that this was a giant character? Picking up a horse and waving it around is beyond heroic and into superheroic. 40 strength? 50?
goblin_gronth
04-23-06, 12:00 PM That was some extreme strength (magically enhanced?) the barbarian had. Lets see, a war horse, thats about an average of 800lbs.... hmm.

I would say that the horse would suffer several broken bones. Depending on the number of impacts/contacts the horse received, i would also say there is a chance (% roll) that the horse could die. How did the horse get lasso'd? around the head? so than after the rope was around the horses next the Barbarian began to swing it around? Blessed by Kord (god of strenth). The Barbarian probably choked the horse while using it as a weapon.

:rofl:
Myzery78
04-23-06, 12:01 PM Worst Troll Ever. 1/10
Witch
04-23-06, 12:02 PM The horse would gallop away from the fray, dragging the barbarian with it, and waking the party. That's about it.
Nitan
04-23-06, 12:08 PM How much does a horse weigh?

With a starting 18 Strength and Rage, the Barbarian could lift up to 520 pound over his head. If it was a Half Orc Barbarian with a base Strength of 20 this increases to 700 pounds.
celtredleg
04-23-06, 12:12 PM Unless he has some way of nailing himself to the ground, the much more massive horse is going to jerk him right off of his feet. Why not lasso one of the goblins instead??
goblin_gronth
04-23-06, 12:25 PM well Sythys has allowed something that could not be really done, that is if again the god of strength didn't reach down and touched him.

Nitan: How much does a horse weigh?

With a starting 18 Strength and Rage, the Barbarian could lift up to 520 pound over his head. If it was a Half Orc Barbarian with a base Strength of 20 this increases to 700 pounds.

This is like pick up and lift over his head.

"This" Barbarian lasso'd a horse. That means he was standing some distance away. He would have to backstep like crazy to get the horse moving in a circle and momentum up enough to actually get the horse to catch air to be able to swing it over its head. :rofl:

Since Sythys allowed it happened... unfortantly to the Paladin... he is made to suffer. My vote is: that horse is dead.

So is there a divine barbarian PrC that im not aware of? :D
revnk
04-23-06, 12:31 PM Maybe it was one of them there miniature Clydesdale ponies like what they got in them Budweiser ads. :D
gleep
04-23-06, 01:41 PM Another way to look at it is the size. The horse is large sized, which I believe* means it would take a colossal creature to wield it one-handed or a gargantuan creature to weild it two handed. Unless the barbarian was at least huge sized with the appropriate feats, he could not used this improvised flail.

As fuel for the weight side of the argument: "Light horses such as Arabians, Morgans, Quarter Horses, Paints and Thoroughbreds weigh up to 1300lbs (about 595kg). "Heavy" or draft horses such as Clydesdale, Draft, Percherons, and Shire horses can weigh up to 2000lbs (about 907kg)." (src: wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse) )

Hmmm. Incidentally, looks like dragons have to be pretty old before they can easily carry off a heavy warhorse. Much less a cow or steer, which often weigh much more.

:D

--gleep

* I didn't bother doublechecking this, so I may well be off on the sizes.
Lord Ian Stark
04-23-06, 01:50 PM Worst Troll Ever. 1/10

:heehee

What happens to the horse? Well the horses neck would have snapped easily (or the head rip off completely) with all that weight pulling on it, so since this is all impossible lets just say the horse is fine with a crooked neck or is headless now with no damage. ;) The rope would probrably have broke anyhow.

So the barbarian didn't have a free action to yell and wake his buddies up but he had plenty of time to lasso a horse, swing it over his head and smoosh goblins with it. :rolleyes:
Norsesmithy
04-23-06, 02:15 PM Rope would break.

Then the horse wakes the paladin through empathic link. Horse dislikes barb, paladin figures out what barb did, pali kicks barb out.
Gerinako
04-23-06, 02:39 PM Load of rubbish imo
If he didn't have time to reach his sword, or reach his companions to wake them up, then...
How did he have enough time to
A) Make a lasso from the rope
B) Swing the lasso round his head to get it around the horses head? (which, by the way, if it was asleep, its head would have been on the ground, hence the rope would not have gone around)
C) Get the momentum up to swing 800lbs of flesh around his head???

In all that time, he could have easily, yelled, grabbed his sword taking a a few hp's of damage and killed a few gobbos.
Or yelled, ran to his companions to wake them up, borrow a weapon off them and get to the fighting leaving his weapon behind.

Furthermore, with that weight being swung round, and the texture of rope, it would have chafed the horses neck, cutting right through it to the bone, and most likely snapping it.
ridiculous
04-23-06, 02:42 PM The second the lasso gets around the head of the horse (quite intelligent horse here), make the horse run to the barbarian and kick him. In the groin.
sythys
04-23-06, 04:57 PM OK... this it why the game ended when this particular charater snagged the horse.

I personally was not going to let this guy get away with this... Even with a "Girdle of Giant Strength"

The lasso knot was already in the rope... And this game situation actually happened around 10 years ago.

But like I said... After he said "I take the rope with the mount and begin to swing it around my head" I said "Thank You... You just killed the paladin's horse, and you just destroyed the fun for everyone else in this game... I quit" And I got my things and went.

Can someone remind me why I want to DM again?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
04-23-06, 05:08 PM Well, swinging a 2,000 pound object at the end of a 40 foot rope would kill the person doing at as his arms are torn completely out of the socket.
Gurv
04-23-06, 05:18 PM And this game situation actually happened around 10 years ago.

Can someone remind me why I want to DM again?
Well, I would think that it had something to do with the fact that, in the last 10 years, rules have been created that prevent that kind of idiocy. Clear limits on how much weight people can move, how much weight a rope can hold, and even how much damage a large creature would deal if it struck a creature.

But then again, since only an idiot would try such an impossible thing, and only a moron would allow it to work, it isn't really rules you need to worry about. You were obviously DMing a completely brain-dead person...maybe you should try playing with someone who understands how things really work, so you both have a basis to work from when entering fantasy.
Koji
04-23-06, 06:20 PM Hmmm. Incidentally, looks like dragons have to be pretty old before they can easily carry off a heavy warhorse. Much less a cow or steer, which often weigh much more.

Remember that a dragon is a quadruped and can lift 1.5 times as much as a biped.
Lord Ian Stark
04-24-06, 05:48 PM And this game situation actually happened around 10 years ago.

Pfft... Nice to tell us this now. 10 years ago was the same rules system and everything... :rolleyes:

If you do DM again, try and be a little more informative with your players.
wrecan
04-24-06, 06:16 PM Not that any of this was legal ten years ago under 2d edition either. In fact, it was easier to say no in 2d edition. Since there were no rules for it, and it was a fairly absurd actions, you simply said "No."
VirgilCaine
04-24-06, 07:37 PM But then again, since only an idiot would try such an impossible thing, and only a moron would allow it to work, it isn't really rules you need to worry about. You were obviously DMing a completely brain-dead person...maybe you should try playing with someone who understands how things really work, so you both have a basis to work from when entering fantasy.

I want to do this in Exalted. With evil things and not horses. This is so cool. Except, not to the Paladin's mount. And not a 3rd level character.
DarkRhystar
04-24-06, 11:53 PM But like I said... After he said "I take the rope with the mount and begin to swing it around my head" I said "Thank You... You just killed the paladin's horse, and you just destroyed the fun for everyone else in this game... I quit" And I got my things and went.

Can someone remind me why I want to DM again?

So he tried to do something in character that he can't. You have two options: let him for purposes of sheer amusement, or enforce the rules by saying that he can't do it. For all we know, his character's Wisdom/Intelligence is low and his character thought that he could do it. It's not a big problem either way unless you rule that he can't do it and the player wants to argue.

Onto the bigger problem though. Spontaneously leaving and telling the player that he'd ruined the fun for everyone is rude and uncalled for. Unless there's more to this than you're telling us, all you've run into is a player who tried to do something he thought creative and within his character's abilities that fortunately/unfortunately (depending on how you look at it) is not. I can't see anything that would warrant what seems to be such a gross overreaction.
hmmmm
04-25-06, 03:20 AM And how did the paladin feel about this? Or better yet how did the player of the paladin react to such stupidity?
Pyritefoolsgold
05-01-06, 03:22 AM You should have let him do it, but just had it not work. The horse gets up, and startled, runs. The barbarian gets dragged for a while before the horse figures out he's dragging weight and stops. Everyone else is awoken by the racket.
stranger_654
05-01-06, 04:34 AM Is it possible to gain exotic weapon proficiency(horse)?
Seriously though, that is INSANE! Lifting a horse or a rope and swinging it around is in the realms of Mario and bowser (god... i am a huge nerd just for remembering the names).
The horse would suffer broken bones, just from its own weight impacting against objects. And at a guess its lungs would be crushed by its own bulk.
Thats just an educated guess after watching the damage done to walruses when they waddled off a cliff, they basically broke there necks with there own weight...
BeerMan5000
05-01-06, 05:25 AM Please someone let this stupid thread die.
hmmmm
05-01-06, 05:52 AM We will in good time or you can fill it up with spam and hope that it gets locked. :P How does the rope not break I don't think that a rope (Hemp or silk) can hold that much weight.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sythys 04-23-06, 11:39 AM	Here's the situation... 3rd lv Barbarian has fallen asleep at guard. A Goblin warparty awoke him and he realized his sword had fallen to the ground. He has no time to awaken his companions or reach his sword, and <for some insane reason.... I let him keep the rope> has his 40 feet of rope over his shoulder. The significance is this. He lassoed one of the parties horses. <the paladin's mount> and then whipped the horse around his head like a flail... I ended the game right there.... But it brought up an interesting question... what would be the damage be on a war mount when used as a bludgeoning weapon?
Steel Cobra 04-23-06, 11:49 AM	How much strength did he have, 30, 40? No way i would even aloow that. And how did the pally feel about it?
Solikawa 04-23-06, 11:53 AM	Wow... just wow...
Mogarth_Warheart 04-23-06, 11:57 AM	that is the single most awsome thing i have ever herd for the useage of a mount
Milandros 04-23-06, 11:59 AM	I presume that this was a giant character? Picking up a horse and waving it around is beyond heroic and into superheroic. 40 strength? 50?
goblin_gronth 04-23-06, 12:00 PM	That was some extreme strength (magically enhanced?) the barbarian had. Lets see, a war horse, thats about an average of 800lbs.... hmm. I would say that the horse would suffer several broken bones. Depending on the number of impacts/contacts the horse received, i would also say there is a chance (% roll) that the horse could die. How did the horse get lasso'd? around the head? so than after the rope was around the horses next the Barbarian began to swing it around? Blessed by Kord (god of strenth). The Barbarian probably choked the horse while using it as a weapon. :rofl:
Myzery78 04-23-06, 12:01 PM	Worst Troll Ever. 1/10
Witch 04-23-06, 12:02 PM	The horse would gallop away from the fray, dragging the barbarian with it, and waking the party. That's about it.
Nitan 04-23-06, 12:08 PM	How much does a horse weigh? With a starting 18 Strength and Rage, the Barbarian could lift up to 520 pound over his head. If it was a Half Orc Barbarian with a base Strength of 20 this increases to 700 pounds.
celtredleg 04-23-06, 12:12 PM	Unless he has some way of nailing himself to the ground, the much more massive horse is going to jerk him right off of his feet. Why not lasso one of the goblins instead??
goblin_gronth 04-23-06, 12:25 PM	well Sythys has allowed something that could not be really done, that is if again the god of strength didn't reach down and touched him. Nitan: How much does a horse weigh? With a starting 18 Strength and Rage, the Barbarian could lift up to 520 pound over his head. If it was a Half Orc Barbarian with a base Strength of 20 this increases to 700 pounds. This is like pick up and lift over his head. "This" Barbarian lasso'd a horse. That means he was standing some distance away. He would have to backstep like crazy to get the horse moving in a circle and momentum up enough to actually get the horse to catch air to be able to swing it over its head. :rofl: Since Sythys allowed it happened... unfortantly to the Paladin... he is made to suffer. My vote is: that horse is dead. So is there a divine barbarian PrC that im not aware of? :D
revnk 04-23-06, 12:31 PM	Maybe it was one of them there miniature Clydesdale ponies like what they got in them Budweiser ads. :D
gleep 04-23-06, 01:41 PM	Another way to look at it is the size. The horse is large sized, which I believe* means it would take a colossal creature to wield it one-handed or a gargantuan creature to weild it two handed. Unless the barbarian was at least huge sized with the appropriate feats, he could not used this improvised flail. As fuel for the weight side of the argument: "Light horses such as Arabians, Morgans, Quarter Horses, Paints and Thoroughbreds weigh up to 1300lbs (about 595kg). "Heavy" or draft horses such as Clydesdale, Draft, Percherons, and Shire horses can weigh up to 2000lbs (about 907kg)." (src: wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse) ) Hmmm. Incidentally, looks like dragons have to be pretty old before they can easily carry off a heavy warhorse. Much less a cow or steer, which often weigh much more. :D --gleep * I didn't bother doublechecking this, so I may well be off on the sizes.
Lord Ian Stark 04-23-06, 01:50 PM	Worst Troll Ever. 1/10 :heehee What happens to the horse? Well the horses neck would have snapped easily (or the head rip off completely) with all that weight pulling on it, so since this is all impossible lets just say the horse is fine with a crooked neck or is headless now with no damage. ;) The rope would probrably have broke anyhow. So the barbarian didn't have a free action to yell and wake his buddies up but he had plenty of time to lasso a horse, swing it over his head and smoosh goblins with it. :rolleyes:
Norsesmithy 04-23-06, 02:15 PM	Rope would break. Then the horse wakes the paladin through empathic link. Horse dislikes barb, paladin figures out what barb did, pali kicks barb out.
Gerinako 04-23-06, 02:39 PM	Load of rubbish imo If he didn't have time to reach his sword, or reach his companions to wake them up, then... How did he have enough time to A) Make a lasso from the rope B) Swing the lasso round his head to get it around the horses head? (which, by the way, if it was asleep, its head would have been on the ground, hence the rope would not have gone around) C) Get the momentum up to swing 800lbs of flesh around his head??? In all that time, he could have easily, yelled, grabbed his sword taking a a few hp's of damage and killed a few gobbos. Or yelled, ran to his companions to wake them up, borrow a weapon off them and get to the fighting leaving his weapon behind. Furthermore, with that weight being swung round, and the texture of rope, it would have chafed the horses neck, cutting right through it to the bone, and most likely snapping it.
ridiculous 04-23-06, 02:42 PM	The second the lasso gets around the head of the horse (quite intelligent horse here), make the horse run to the barbarian and kick him. In the groin.
sythys 04-23-06, 04:57 PM	OK... this it why the game ended when this particular charater snagged the horse. I personally was not going to let this guy get away with this... Even with a "Girdle of Giant Strength" The lasso knot was already in the rope... And this game situation actually happened around 10 years ago. But like I said... After he said "I take the rope with the mount and begin to swing it around my head" I said "Thank You... You just killed the paladin's horse, and you just destroyed the fun for everyone else in this game... I quit" And I got my things and went. Can someone remind me why I want to DM again?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-23-06, 05:08 PM	Well, swinging a 2,000 pound object at the end of a 40 foot rope would kill the person doing at as his arms are torn completely out of the socket.
Gurv 04-23-06, 05:18 PM	And this game situation actually happened around 10 years ago. Can someone remind me why I want to DM again? Well, I would think that it had something to do with the fact that, in the last 10 years, rules have been created that prevent that kind of idiocy. Clear limits on how much weight people can move, how much weight a rope can hold, and even how much damage a large creature would deal if it struck a creature. But then again, since only an idiot would try such an impossible thing, and only a moron would allow it to work, it isn't really rules you need to worry about. You were obviously DMing a completely brain-dead person...maybe you should try playing with someone who understands how things really work, so you both have a basis to work from when entering fantasy.
Koji 04-23-06, 06:20 PM	Hmmm. Incidentally, looks like dragons have to be pretty old before they can easily carry off a heavy warhorse. Much less a cow or steer, which often weigh much more. Remember that a dragon is a quadruped and can lift 1.5 times as much as a biped.
Lord Ian Stark 04-24-06, 05:48 PM	And this game situation actually happened around 10 years ago. Pfft... Nice to tell us this now. 10 years ago was the same rules system and everything... :rolleyes: If you do DM again, try and be a little more informative with your players.
wrecan 04-24-06, 06:16 PM	Not that any of this was legal ten years ago under 2d edition either. In fact, it was easier to say no in 2d edition. Since there were no rules for it, and it was a fairly absurd actions, you simply said "No."
VirgilCaine 04-24-06, 07:37 PM	But then again, since only an idiot would try such an impossible thing, and only a moron would allow it to work, it isn't really rules you need to worry about. You were obviously DMing a completely brain-dead person...maybe you should try playing with someone who understands how things really work, so you both have a basis to work from when entering fantasy. I want to do this in Exalted. With evil things and not horses. This is so cool. Except, not to the Paladin's mount. And not a 3rd level character.
DarkRhystar 04-24-06, 11:53 PM	But like I said... After he said "I take the rope with the mount and begin to swing it around my head" I said "Thank You... You just killed the paladin's horse, and you just destroyed the fun for everyone else in this game... I quit" And I got my things and went. Can someone remind me why I want to DM again? So he tried to do something in character that he can't. You have two options: let him for purposes of sheer amusement, or enforce the rules by saying that he can't do it. For all we know, his character's Wisdom/Intelligence is low and his character thought that he could do it. It's not a big problem either way unless you rule that he can't do it and the player wants to argue. Onto the bigger problem though. Spontaneously leaving and telling the player that he'd ruined the fun for everyone is rude and uncalled for. Unless there's more to this than you're telling us, all you've run into is a player who tried to do something he thought creative and within his character's abilities that fortunately/unfortunately (depending on how you look at it) is not. I can't see anything that would warrant what seems to be such a gross overreaction.
hmmmm 04-25-06, 03:20 AM	And how did the paladin feel about this? Or better yet how did the player of the paladin react to such stupidity?
Pyritefoolsgold 05-01-06, 03:22 AM	You should have let him do it, but just had it not work. The horse gets up, and startled, runs. The barbarian gets dragged for a while before the horse figures out he's dragging weight and stops. Everyone else is awoken by the racket.
stranger_654 05-01-06, 04:34 AM	Is it possible to gain exotic weapon proficiency(horse)? Seriously though, that is INSANE! Lifting a horse or a rope and swinging it around is in the realms of Mario and bowser (god... i am a huge nerd just for remembering the names). The horse would suffer broken bones, just from its own weight impacting against objects. And at a guess its lungs would be crushed by its own bulk. Thats just an educated guess after watching the damage done to walruses when they waddled off a cliff, they basically broke there necks with there own weight...
BeerMan5000 05-01-06, 05:25 AM	Please someone let this stupid thread die.
hmmmm 05-01-06, 05:52 AM	We will in good time or you can fill it up with spam and hope that it gets locked. :P How does the rope not break I don't think that a rope (Hemp or silk) can hold that much weight.