Animal Companions and Familiar's gaining experience? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Companions and Familiar's gaining experience? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
shivafang
07-29-06, 12:51 AM Is there anything in the books that says that animal companions and familiars do not gain experience, and cannot advance beyond their class features?

One of my players plays a necromancer and wants to give his rat levels in bard, and presented some arguments from the books. I was leaning against it at first, but now I'm leaning towards it (provided he takes the Improved Familiar feat and find a bard willing to train a rat... an adventure in itself!).

My only 'but' is that I cannot find anything anywhere that indicates familiars can gain any type of hit dice or advancement. However the animals would normally (if they wern't familiars) be able to get experience and advance in hit dice, which leads my player (and myself) to wonder 'why not?'.
KurenaiYami
07-29-06, 01:01 AM My only beef with it would be that none of my other class features gain experience.

I'm flipping through the books to see if there's anything that has an official reason, but I can't find anything so far. I'll chime back in if I find something.
Puca
07-29-06, 02:30 AM What? No. Familiars and companions have a set standard for how they advance based on the masters level. No. Jesus ***** no.
shivafang
07-29-06, 05:43 PM My only beef with it would be that none of my other class features gain experience.

Which is why I'd require the Leadership feat and/or Improved Familiar.

Besides, that's actually not true, some prestige classes grant cohorts as a class feature, and I know of one base class in Arcanis that also grants a cohort, but that's not core D&D. It could be argued that a familiar is like a cohort and should gain experience like any other creature.

He also pointed out that the druid's animal companion are 'bonus HD' and not really advancement, and the 'Familiar' or 'Animal Companion' stuff could be considered a template (which makes sence when you think about Arcane Heirophant having the Familiar and Companion as the same creature and the Devoted Tracker feat making the Companion and hte Mount the same creature.). The Monster Manual indicates that creatures can advance independantly of their templates.

These are the only reasons I'm even considering it. My first reaction was to say 'no way' but these rulings make me go 'hmm maybe..'
Cifer
07-29-06, 06:16 PM I'd rather go "no way". If you need a crunch reason, look at the rat's entry in the MM. The line reads "advancement: -", not "advancement: by character class". Sure, one could argue that the intelligence makes a difference, but there are no rules saying it does.
I wonder what these "arguments from the books" are.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shivafang 07-29-06, 12:51 AM	Is there anything in the books that says that animal companions and familiars do not gain experience, and cannot advance beyond their class features? One of my players plays a necromancer and wants to give his rat levels in bard, and presented some arguments from the books. I was leaning against it at first, but now I'm leaning towards it (provided he takes the Improved Familiar feat and find a bard willing to train a rat... an adventure in itself!). My only 'but' is that I cannot find anything anywhere that indicates familiars can gain any type of hit dice or advancement. However the animals would normally (if they wern't familiars) be able to get experience and advance in hit dice, which leads my player (and myself) to wonder 'why not?'.
KurenaiYami 07-29-06, 01:01 AM	My only beef with it would be that none of my other class features gain experience. I'm flipping through the books to see if there's anything that has an official reason, but I can't find anything so far. I'll chime back in if I find something.
Puca 07-29-06, 02:30 AM	What? No. Familiars and companions have a set standard for how they advance based on the masters level. No. Jesus ***** no.
shivafang 07-29-06, 05:43 PM	My only beef with it would be that none of my other class features gain experience. Which is why I'd require the Leadership feat and/or Improved Familiar. Besides, that's actually not true, some prestige classes grant cohorts as a class feature, and I know of one base class in Arcanis that also grants a cohort, but that's not core D&D. It could be argued that a familiar is like a cohort and should gain experience like any other creature. He also pointed out that the druid's animal companion are 'bonus HD' and not really advancement, and the 'Familiar' or 'Animal Companion' stuff could be considered a template (which makes sence when you think about Arcane Heirophant having the Familiar and Companion as the same creature and the Devoted Tracker feat making the Companion and hte Mount the same creature.). The Monster Manual indicates that creatures can advance independantly of their templates. These are the only reasons I'm even considering it. My first reaction was to say 'no way' but these rulings make me go 'hmm maybe..'
Cifer 07-29-06, 06:16 PM	I'd rather go "no way". If you need a crunch reason, look at the rat's entry in the MM. The line reads "advancement: -", not "advancement: by character class". Sure, one could argue that the intelligence makes a difference, but there are no rules saying it does. I wonder what these "arguments from the books" are.