Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shayde 03-12-04, 11:27 AM	I'm not 100% on if this should be on this part of the boards. I have seen lots of people complain about keeping Anime out of D&D. here's my take. If you let Anime influence your campaign world, keep it in context. The most I let Anime influence my campaign world is purely descriptive or stylistic. However there are some more specific issues to be discussed. Giant Robots, Visions of Escaflone is a better example to use for this because the world presented in that series is medevil(I hope I spelled that right). The giant robots don't unbalance that world because everyone has them. If the players have giant robots, than their enemies should be able to have more giant robots that are better than what the players have. If the players are the only ones with something like that, then they shouldn't have them. Overpowered, if the only anime you have seen is on cartoon network than you don't have any right to say that all anime is overpowered, Rune Soldier, Record of Lodoss War, and Princess Mononoke are definately not overpowered, but the big thing here is that their power does not exceed that of their world in general. For example the characters in those series/films cannot do anything that the general population couldn't be capeable of.(just because someone is a commoner doesn't mean he couldn't have become a wizard) Also, in many Anime series, the hero often is special, he/she either has a special weapon, special power etc. That is why the series is based around that particular character. That doesn't work at all for D&D because D&D is not about just one character and jealosy between players is what often throws things out of balance. (if he has a magic cursed mark than I want one too)
ThoughtfulOwl 03-12-04, 12:05 PM	eOriginally posted by Shayde I'm not 100% on if this should be on this part of the boards. Yes, it is probably better in the d20 Anime forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=444), but I'll give it a shot anyway before the WizOs move the thread. ;) I have seen lots of people complain about keeping Anime out of D&D. here's my take. If you let Anime influence your campaign world, keep it in context. The most I let Anime influence my campaign world is purely descriptive or stylistic. However there are some more specific issues to be discussed. Anime is pretty much about style; as far as content goes, it runs the gamut of possibilities. Giant Robots, Visions of Escaflone is a better example to use for this because the world presented in that series is medevil(I hope I spelled that right). The giant robots don't unbalance that world because everyone has them. If the players have giant robots, than their enemies should be able to have more giant robots that are better than what the players have. If the players are the only ones with something like that, then they shouldn't have them. As a side note, Japanese like to mix fantasy and sci-fi/hi-tech elements together. Anyway, the point about giant robots is deciding how powerful they are: if they are little more than glorified powered armors (likely powered by magic, it being DnD), then it is only a matter of accounting them as any other magic item; the fighter who uses one might have invested even some 100,000 gp in it, all money that cannot be spent on other magical gear. If, instead, they are the ultimate war machine, consider these options: - They are used sparingly. During most of the adventure the PCs have other things to do than running around in cumbersome giant suits. When a major field battle ensues, however, it's showtime for them. - Everybody in the team has them; all major engagements see big robots vs. big robots. However there is still plenty of action for the PCs when outside the super suits. Overpowered, if the only anime you have seen is on cartoon network than you don't have any right to say that all anime is overpowered, Rune Soldier, Record of Lodoss War, and Princess Mononoke are definately not overpowered, but the big thing here is that their power does not exceed that of their world in general. For example the characters in those series/films cannot do anything that the general population couldn't be capeable of.(just because someone is a commoner doesn't mean he couldn't have become a wizard) Are we thinking Dragonball, here? :D Apart from that, many "overpowered" anime series aren't really that, just showy (again, style, not substance). Basically it comes down to two choices: 1) The PCs aren't that much better then the average cannon fodder; this is the case of low-level DnD. 2) The PCs are far above the rest; maybe they are special, or they just trained much more. However, all their main opponents and allies are rougly on their same power level. This is high-level DnD. Also, in many Anime series, the hero often is special, he/she either has a special weapon, special power etc. That is why the series is based around that particular character. That doesn't work at all for D&D because D&D is not about just one character and jealosy between playrs is what often throws things out of balance. (if he has a magic cursed mark than I want one too) The Fated Hero and other similar concepts are present also in western fantasy; it's hardly anime-specific. Rather, the problem is that there isn't a single main character, like in most novels, but several ones who have to be put on an equal footing. It's a matter of making every PC somewhat special in his own way. Do I make sense or I'm just rambling? :D
Shayde 03-12-04, 01:15 PM	You make some sense, I myself am a card carrying member of the University of Wyoming Anime Club, but I just got so sick of people compaining to my about my stylistic choices of my descriptions and player hand outs. I'm perfectly aware of the sci-fi,fantasy blending, which is why I chose examples that were primaraly fantasy based.
Lord Crimson 03-12-04, 04:41 PM	I was always under the impression that the complaints about keeping anime out of D&D was a concern mostly about artwork. Where companies like White Wolf have embraced the anime paradigm both in their art (anything of the revised edition) and their games (Kindred of the East and Exalted are both WAAAAAAY anime in their play style), I think that a lot of more western-art favoring D&D players would prefer that the anime style be kept out of "their" game. In fact, there are a lot of White Wolf players that are still screaming about this rise of anime art in the WW game-books. Personally, I like anime. On the other hand, I still prefer more classical western art styles. Each to his own I suppose.
Zilred 03-13-04, 01:42 AM	Originally posted by Shayde I have seen lots of people complain about keeping Anime out of D&D. That's why they made BESM d20.
grapedog 04-08-04, 11:32 AM	i delt with WAYYYY too much anime in my games, my GM used anime characters for certain gods, like that idiot chick in tiger stripes with a tail that likes fish...and anime manuvers and made anime based classes. I don't even LIKE the goofy anime that pervades the market today. I would say stick to the core, it works great on it's own, leave anime for crappy movies and tv shows so that people who for some reason like it, can watch it and the rest of us don't have to be subjected to it on a regular basis... hence why there is a seperate anime forum aswell...
PenderGrass 04-08-04, 04:53 PM	I used to wear anime underpants. I used to eat anime breakfast cereal and then brush my teeth with an anime toothbrush. Then I started going to Anime Anonymous - sometimes there are drunks there as well (at our Anime Anonymous meetings - seems there is some group out there with a similar name)..... Also, by the by, that Tiger Chick that likes fish is HOT.... H OH Tee - very HOT!!! oooh la la I think the hardest thing with combining D&D and Anime is making all those dang drawings - have you ever tried to draw a beholder with them insanely large eyes you have to have in anime????
AlexBurel 04-08-04, 06:42 PM	Originally posted by PenderGrass I think the hardest thing with combining D&D and Anime is making all those dang drawings - have you ever tried to draw a beholder with them insanely large eyes you have to have in anime???? :heehee Seriously, there are a lot more anime RPGs than one might think. In addition to BESM and its suppliments, I personally have seen RPGs based on several series including Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Dragonball Z and (I think) Yu-Gi-oh. While i have personally been unable to buy any of these(I can barely afford D&D as it is, any mroe RPGs would be to much for my wallet to handle) I have done research and they are just as interesting as more common RPGs such as D&D and Call of Cthulhu. In my opinion, it doesnt matter whether or not DMs want to combine the two so long as they and their players are happy with it. If some guy wants to play a Goku clone or weild a Cloud-Strife sized sword, then by all means go ahead. Its not affecting my game, so why should anyone get all worked up over something so minor. I mean, the point of a game is to fun, right?
Rian Lightblade 04-08-04, 07:43 PM	Pre Rant statement. The last time I was in Japan I pick up a copy of the Record of Lodoss war RPG which was pretty fun. That how I want Anime FRPGs, separate. Not D&D! Begin Rant. I think the one of the major reasons people, even Anime fans, don't want to see anime elements in D&D is because a lot of recent Fantasy Anime is just plain dumb! I mean look and Slayers or Bakaretsu Hunters etc, etc. When compared to classics and serious anime like , Record of Lodoss War, The Heroic Legend of Arslan, Berserk, heck even Bastard, they just look like the Three Stooges (sp?) with spells and armor! Now I a big anime fan. I'm a member of the SPJA, which runs Animexpo one of, if not the largest Anime conventions in the country. And I have attended it faithfully every year since it's fifth anniversary. I feel that anime and manga are superior to their western counter-parts 95% of the time. Despite all of that, I do not want any anime coming anywhere near my D&D! If want to homebrew it, fine! You want a printed book use D20 BESM or better yet the Original Tri-Stat BESM (far better IMO). The last thing we need to see is the D&D Anime Handbook !!!!:headexplo Pant...pant.....pant End of rant. Thank you for your time.
Polymorph 04-08-04, 07:44 PM	It amazes me time and time again how many people look at anime from the typical " I know yu-gi-oh, I know it all" point of view... sad isn't it? I think the hardest thing with combining D&D and Anime is making all those dang drawings - have you ever tried to draw a beholder with them insanely large eyes you have to have in anime???? I know this is meant as a joke, but it is mentioned every time when D&D and anime are mentioned the same time.. no really! 1) Beholders have insanely large eyes anyways ;) 2) You would draw big round shiny eyes only if you want your :behold: to look cute... don't think they are meant to be cute :D As for "all anime is overpowered": Nothing a mirror image, haste, dimension door and fireball can't do :cool: ... As mentioned above, anime is all about style, and i don't really think that there is a great difference between an anime style campaign, and a normal one. in fact, maybe you play in an anime-fashion and dont even notice... :rolleyes: btw, why is everyone talking about anime all the time? Wouldn't manga be the right word right here? i delt with WAYYYY too much anime in my games, my GM used anime characters for certain gods, like that idiot chick in tiger stripes with a tail that likes fish...and anime manuvers and made anime based classes. I don't even LIKE the goofy anime that pervades the market today. I don't quite share your opinion, but I'm cool with it. And yes, you are right: A lot of crap pervades the market today. On the other hand, you would be suprised how much good stuff is coming out too ;) And btw, in the book of exalted deeds there are talkactive celestial bears, elephants and whatsoever... so a catlike goddess is not so much out of place... :rolleyes:
Lord Crimson 04-09-04, 02:22 AM	I agree with Poly here that it really is a matter of style. Sometimes it just comes off a little more impressive when that fireball is done in old Streetfighter "Hadokken" style (especially when you're describing death scenes in that cinematic slow-mo). As for manga versus anime: I was under the impression that anime was more of the general term for all things in that artistic and representative style, while manga was specifically "comic-book" storylines combined with anime art and style. Sort of like hentai is just porn combined with anime art and style. But maybe I'm misunderstanding that. I originally heard of all anime style things referred to as Japanime (short for Japanese Animation) when I was in high school. It's no longer the standard term anymore.
ThoughtfulOwl 04-09-04, 05:58 AM	Originally posted by Lord Crimson As for manga versus anime: I was under the impression that anime was more of the general term for all things in that artistic and representative style, while manga was specifically "comic-book" storylines combined with anime art and style. Sort of like hentai is just porn combined with anime art and style. As far as I know, anime is specific for animation only; manga is technically the general term, but with time it has been used more and more to specify paper-printed works as opposed to animation. Likewise, anime is often overused as a catch-all term.
Millennium 04-09-04, 09:11 AM	"Anime" is, literally, animation. It's kind of hard to combine a visual medium with a tabletop role-playing game. Similarly, "manga" is... difficult to translate into English; the closest word is "comics" but that word doesn't have the proper connotations at all (among other things, manga isn't considered "kiddie" by its native culture, whereas comics are). "Graphic novel" doesn't work, because most manga is published serially, as comics are. Seriously; anime and manga are media, not genres or styles. The next time someone asks for an "anime-style" game, the appropriate response is "What genre?" If they can't give you a straight answer, then they need to put more thought into what it is that they want. Most of the time what they're really asking for is higher-powered campaigns -which can rightly be rejected as munchkinry- but this is not always the case, and you should watch for these extraordinary situations: not everyone thinks of anime as Dragonball Z, after all.
Tenzhi 04-09-04, 09:30 AM	Originally posted by Millennium the closest word is "comics" but that word doesn't have the proper connotations at all (among other things, manga isn't considered "kiddie" by its native culture, whereas comics are). "Comics" should do quite well. Just because the native culture idiotically considers things like "Hellboy" (a comic about a nazi-summoned hellspawn fighting against Lovecraftian monsters) to be "kiddie" whilst griping about dubiously adult situations in Disney cartoons doesn't discount the fact that they are intrinsically the same medium as manga. The culture (and I use the term loosely) in question similarly tends to regard all animated features as "kiddie" and thus we rarely get any cool full-length animated features like Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heavens Door in the theatres.
grapedog 04-09-04, 10:25 AM	well, when you find the word for it...just make sure it stays there...keep it off the big screen and out of my D&D...
hexgrid 04-09-04, 11:20 AM	"Anime" is, literally, animation. Seriously; anime and manga are media, not genres or styles. Maybe if you're Japaneese anime just means "animation," but that isn't how the word used in western cultures. Anime definitely implies certain styles and conventions. ("The Simpsons" is animated, but it isn't anime.) That said, it's still true a multitude of anime genres exists. Many make the mistake of thinking a specific sample they find distasteful is representative of anime in general. There's a lot of really bad anime out there, but there's also a lot of really good anime. You can pretty much assume that if you aren't actively seeking it out, the good stuff probably isn't mainstream enough for you to have heard of. It's kind of hard to combine a visual medium with a tabletop role-playing game. I don't know about that. Anime is filled with conventions that can be easily incorporated into a table-top game. (giant robots, to name a painfully obvious one.)
Millennium 04-09-04, 12:10 PM	Originally posted by hexgrid Maybe if you're Japaneese anime just means "animation," but that isn't how the word used in western cultures. Anime definitely implies certain styles and conventions. ("The Simpsons" is animated, but it isn't anime.) Spoken like someone who can't even spell "Japanese" correctly. "Anime" is animation; this is the One True Definition, by authority of the language whence it came. To speak of Hellboy for a moment, no one in their right mind would consider it to be "kiddie". This is what upsets the comic-bookburners so much; in their idiocy, they see it as some kind of perversion of a children's genre, That said, it's still true a multitude of anime genres exists. Many make the mistake of thinking a specific sample they find distasteful is representative of anime in general. There's a lot of really bad anime out there, but there's also a lot of really good anime. You can pretty much assume that if you aren't actively seeking it out, the good stuff probably isn't mainstream enough for you to have heard of. I hope I haven't given off the impression that I don't like anime. Nothing could be further from the truth; I've been a fan for well over eight years. Granted, eight years is not exactly old-school, but I'd like to think that I've got a somewhat longer-term perspective than many of the newbies. I don't know about that. Anime is filled with conventions that can be easily incorporated into a table-top game. (giant robots, to name a painfully obvious one.) True, but giant robots are hardly a visual medium. They're a concept which sank deep roots into animation, largely because at the time no other medium was capable of expressing the concept well. Even today, giant robots don't work well in most media; there have been some clumsy attempts with live-action films, but these seldom if ever work well. This does not, however, mean that anime and the giant-robot archetype are one and the same thing.
Quenditar 04-09-04, 05:33 PM	A lot of words change meaning when they are borrowed by another language, and "anime" is no exception. In Japanese it does mean "animation" in general, but in English usage "anime" implies specifically Japanese-style animation and drawing. After all, would you turn to an algebraist for help if you broke your leg? (Al-jabr means "bonesetting", so an algebraist sets bones, right?)
Polymorph 04-09-04, 08:21 PM	True, but giant robots are hardly a visual medium. They're a concept which sank deep roots into animation, largely because at the time no other medium was capable of expressing the concept well. You got a good point there! As far as I know, the reason why anime as we know it came into being was, that real actors were just too expensive :D .
Donnavin Snowolf 04-10-04, 01:11 PM	Originally posted by Polymorph You got a good point there! As far as I know, the reason why anime as we know it came into being was, that real actors were just too expensive :D . Don't underestimate the cost of doing a high quality, full length animated movie, let alone a series. Shudder Just gimme some friends and hoboes that act for free. :rolleyes: :P
JoAT 04-10-04, 03:51 PM	Originally posted by Quenditar A lot of words change meaning when they are borrowed by another language, and "anime" is no exception. In Japanese it does mean "animation" in general, but in English usage "anime" implies specifically Japanese-style animation and drawing. After all, would you turn to an algebraist for help if you broke your leg? (Al-jabr means "bonesetting", so an algebraist sets bones, right?) True, but even in the context of the (north) american definition of anime, which is basicly 'cartoons from japan', it's still not a genre. Anime (and Manga, which, if I remember correctly, is short for magazine), functions as a medium, not a genre. There exists sports anime, soap oprea anime, children's anime, futuristic anime, fantasy anime, horror anime, dramatic anime (drama anime just sounds weird), comedy anime, pornographic anime (hentai, btw, is one of a number of words for pervert, or perverse - it means something aling the lines of strange (hen) love (ai)), and an innumerable amount of others - just like any other TV series. The only real diffrence I've seen between anime and other TV products is that these genres are somtimes combined, and sometimes flow into each other (ie, Slayers, which is a fantasy comedy series quite often slips into a somewhat dramatic, action-or-morality centered story-line, usually close to the end of a story arc - alot like many web comics, actually). The conventions that exist (or are percived to exist) are normally a product of the culture - cat-girls and various other animal people seem to spring from animist-type belifs, much like there is something of a convention within north american entertainment to draw upon christian belifs. Others (like giant robots), are really just an example of people seeing something and saying it's a convention - giant robots normally only exist in anime that has ties with militrisitic action, futuristic action, or are inspired by sentai shows (Power Rangers is a prime example of a sentai tv show). In short, giant robots are a convention in giant robot anime... which kind of makes sense, when you think about it...
Kolo 04-11-04, 12:20 AM	For all of us that would like to play an Anime-style RPG, I'd recommend a different source than D&D. Namely, I'd recommend the Exalted system from White Wolf publishing. That system is based around a mix of every type of fantasy, and has been described as being a "ninja scroll meets the Illiad", to name a random example. It actually plays like it too... But as for the rest... well, if you want to keep to the d20 system, turn to the d20 anime board. They're always cooking up a bunch of robotty DBZ/style big-eyed stuff...:P
Ramses III 04-11-04, 04:48 AM	All of my D&D games are run in anime style, with my descriptions reflecting the conventions of anime as an artform and the characters conceptualized as anime characters. Its more fun for me that way... and all of my players love it. Its your game... run (or play) it however you like it.