Annoying Attributes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Annoying Attributes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Phoenixfury
09-19-05, 06:02 PM I've recently started DMing a forum-based DnD campaign, and before it's even begun, I have a problem. I must have commited a cardinal error in allowing my players to roll their own statistics.

I didn't want to make use of a point buy system, because that would guarentee that the wizard has 18 INT, the fighter has 8 CHA, and a number of other givens.

Essentially, the point buy value of a select 3 of my party's statistics is in the 40-60 range, while the rest of my three players have realistic statistics that hover around or below 32. I don't want to call my players liars, because they could have actually rolled impressive statistics like that, but I myself do not know, and the law of averages supports my theroy.

I'm stumped on what to do, though. Taking those statistics away, if they're legitimate, would be an evil act, while allowing them to keep them, and the other players being stuck with lackluster stats (in comparison) is equally evil.
eudas
09-19-05, 06:21 PM Communication is key. Inform the players of your perceived mistake, explain the reason why you think it's a mistake, and propose your solution. Be as impartial, fair, and communicative as you can. It's not a cause for drama, it's just an issue to be addressed.

eudas
Dick Dastardly
09-19-05, 06:56 PM i agree. just talk to them but as a group maybe so they dont feel singled out?

i get my players to roll up in front of the whole group, sometimes they make a character, and then roll up the stats again infront of the group and change the relevant bits on their profile, but none of them seem to mind too much.
Thistle Rosewood
09-19-05, 08:19 PM I am in three groups, and for all of the groups, we have to roll in frount of the group.....as this way it is done and every one can see the stats....

now we have different ways of rolling those stats...

in the Monday group, we are very generous, we roll 2d8's and you can kill your stats that many times, but if you run out, your last roll is it, NO matter what, even if the totals are below 0...and you cant go back, once scratched, its gone

the second is roll two sets, and take the best set, and the third was roll one set, and add a d4 to the primary stat of the character played

there were a couple of people for a couple of campaigns that couldnt be there for the character design day, thay came in with surprising high stats....and I felt the same way you did.....did they really roll them...as the rest of the party were average.....I had another character come in with real low stats....so I opted to have them re roll...we were all to design the characters, as a group...it was my house rule....
they all balanced out...they were alittle upset, but I had stated we would design characters together....

I am running a one off right now, that they all rolled outside the game, with 5 players, 1 came in low, 3 average, and 1 high...

seems about average.....
but if you stipulated they roll as a party, have them re roll....if not, you can discuss it with them, and sort it out....there is always draining spells..Smiles...to lower stats....

anyhow, not sure if that helps, but hopefully is does..
good luck
WCH
09-19-05, 08:56 PM I prefer high powered stats... so what I use is this: roll 4d6, count up point buy equivalent. If total is less than 25, reroll until it's greater -- or use a 34 point buy. However, once you've rolled, you cannot change your mind.
Phoenixfury
09-19-05, 09:08 PM Yes, I understand the part about rolling in front of the group, except that being a forum-based game, this means it's online, and that can't be done.

Thanks for the replies, though.
Bud Green
09-19-05, 09:15 PM Problems with rolling stats in online games:

1. Subject to extreme results. Obviously, if you want to leave stats to random chance, you should be prepared for some players to get excellent results and some players to get horrid results. The party will very likely be lopsided from the get-go. A side-effect is that those who end up with the worst stats may feel discouraged, and have one foot out the door before the game even starts.

2. Is it possible to cheat the die-roller? How can you know for sure?

3. "Waaah! Can I reroll?"
"I used the wrong die-roller. Is that okay?"
"I thought you meant I could reroll just the crappy number!"
"My reroll was worse than the first roll - can I just take the first one?"
"But you let Dweezil reroll?!?!?!"
"I just edited my post because I misspelled a word. I didn't change the die-roll. Honest!"

Yeah, I recommend point-buy for online play. Keeps everyone on level footing and eliminates a lot of tediousness and miscommunication.
Phoenixfury
09-19-05, 09:17 PM Well, it's possible to simply reroll until they get the stats they like, so cheating the die-roller is rather easy.

Heh, I suppose a point buy is the way to go.
SodaGuy
09-19-05, 09:35 PM My group uses 4d6, re-roll 1's, drop the lowest and it always leads to rediculous stats. I just rolled it right now and got 17, 16, 16, 15, 15, 7. This doesn't have much to do with the topic, I just wanted to share. ;)
dirkformica
09-19-05, 09:43 PM There's a free program call WebRPG that is kind of like an IRC chat room with roleplaying plugins (such as dice rollers) that you could use so everyone can see everyone else's rolls.

Although even with that said, I'd still go with a consensus amongst the group and balance out everyone's stats so they're at least roughly equivalent. It will make the game too difficult when you have strange encounters where monsters are tailored to fight only the high powered characters while the rest of the part fights more standard opponents.

(edit: Oh and I wanted to add that I was hoping this was going to be a Petition to bring back the Comeliness attribute! ;))
Callista
09-19-05, 10:05 PM Point. Buy.

'Nuff said.
FriendoftheDork
09-19-05, 10:13 PM Yes, I understand the part about rolling in front of the group, except that being a forum-based game, this means it's online, and that can't be done.

Thanks for the replies, though.

As someone probably has already pointed out, there are online dice rollers where every player and the DM can see each roll.

I would stick to point buy anyway. I've never seen a player put an 18 in an unmodifed stat, unless the y got too high point buy. And dumping charisma... well you might wanna tell your players that NPCs will hate them if tdhey have very low charisma, that should do the trick.

I'd use 25 or 28.
sooperspook
09-19-05, 11:09 PM If i DM i iprefer to roll the stats for everyone. That is , i roll a set of stats and everyone uses them , placed where they like.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Phoenixfury 09-19-05, 06:02 PM	I've recently started DMing a forum-based DnD campaign, and before it's even begun, I have a problem. I must have commited a cardinal error in allowing my players to roll their own statistics. I didn't want to make use of a point buy system, because that would guarentee that the wizard has 18 INT, the fighter has 8 CHA, and a number of other givens. Essentially, the point buy value of a select 3 of my party's statistics is in the 40-60 range, while the rest of my three players have realistic statistics that hover around or below 32. I don't want to call my players liars, because they could have actually rolled impressive statistics like that, but I myself do not know, and the law of averages supports my theroy. I'm stumped on what to do, though. Taking those statistics away, if they're legitimate, would be an evil act, while allowing them to keep them, and the other players being stuck with lackluster stats (in comparison) is equally evil.
eudas 09-19-05, 06:21 PM	Communication is key. Inform the players of your perceived mistake, explain the reason why you think it's a mistake, and propose your solution. Be as impartial, fair, and communicative as you can. It's not a cause for drama, it's just an issue to be addressed. eudas
Dick Dastardly 09-19-05, 06:56 PM	i agree. just talk to them but as a group maybe so they dont feel singled out? i get my players to roll up in front of the whole group, sometimes they make a character, and then roll up the stats again infront of the group and change the relevant bits on their profile, but none of them seem to mind too much.
Thistle Rosewood 09-19-05, 08:19 PM	I am in three groups, and for all of the groups, we have to roll in frount of the group.....as this way it is done and every one can see the stats.... now we have different ways of rolling those stats... in the Monday group, we are very generous, we roll 2d8's and you can kill your stats that many times, but if you run out, your last roll is it, NO matter what, even if the totals are below 0...and you cant go back, once scratched, its gone the second is roll two sets, and take the best set, and the third was roll one set, and add a d4 to the primary stat of the character played there were a couple of people for a couple of campaigns that couldnt be there for the character design day, thay came in with surprising high stats....and I felt the same way you did.....did they really roll them...as the rest of the party were average.....I had another character come in with real low stats....so I opted to have them re roll...we were all to design the characters, as a group...it was my house rule.... they all balanced out...they were alittle upset, but I had stated we would design characters together.... I am running a one off right now, that they all rolled outside the game, with 5 players, 1 came in low, 3 average, and 1 high... seems about average..... but if you stipulated they roll as a party, have them re roll....if not, you can discuss it with them, and sort it out....there is always draining spells..Smiles...to lower stats.... anyhow, not sure if that helps, but hopefully is does.. good luck
WCH 09-19-05, 08:56 PM	I prefer high powered stats... so what I use is this: roll 4d6, count up point buy equivalent. If total is less than 25, reroll until it's greater -- or use a 34 point buy. However, once you've rolled, you cannot change your mind.
Phoenixfury 09-19-05, 09:08 PM	Yes, I understand the part about rolling in front of the group, except that being a forum-based game, this means it's online, and that can't be done. Thanks for the replies, though.
Bud Green 09-19-05, 09:15 PM	Problems with rolling stats in online games: 1. Subject to extreme results. Obviously, if you want to leave stats to random chance, you should be prepared for some players to get excellent results and some players to get horrid results. The party will very likely be lopsided from the get-go. A side-effect is that those who end up with the worst stats may feel discouraged, and have one foot out the door before the game even starts. 2. Is it possible to cheat the die-roller? How can you know for sure? 3. "Waaah! Can I reroll?" "I used the wrong die-roller. Is that okay?" "I thought you meant I could reroll just the crappy number!" "My reroll was worse than the first roll - can I just take the first one?" "But you let Dweezil reroll?!?!?!" "I just edited my post because I misspelled a word. I didn't change the die-roll. Honest!" Yeah, I recommend point-buy for online play. Keeps everyone on level footing and eliminates a lot of tediousness and miscommunication.
Phoenixfury 09-19-05, 09:17 PM	Well, it's possible to simply reroll until they get the stats they like, so cheating the die-roller is rather easy. Heh, I suppose a point buy is the way to go.
SodaGuy 09-19-05, 09:35 PM	My group uses 4d6, re-roll 1's, drop the lowest and it always leads to rediculous stats. I just rolled it right now and got 17, 16, 16, 15, 15, 7. This doesn't have much to do with the topic, I just wanted to share. ;)
dirkformica 09-19-05, 09:43 PM	There's a free program call WebRPG that is kind of like an IRC chat room with roleplaying plugins (such as dice rollers) that you could use so everyone can see everyone else's rolls. Although even with that said, I'd still go with a consensus amongst the group and balance out everyone's stats so they're at least roughly equivalent. It will make the game too difficult when you have strange encounters where monsters are tailored to fight only the high powered characters while the rest of the part fights more standard opponents. (edit: Oh and I wanted to add that I was hoping this was going to be a Petition to bring back the Comeliness attribute! ;))
Callista 09-19-05, 10:05 PM	Point. Buy. 'Nuff said.
FriendoftheDork 09-19-05, 10:13 PM	Yes, I understand the part about rolling in front of the group, except that being a forum-based game, this means it's online, and that can't be done. Thanks for the replies, though. As someone probably has already pointed out, there are online dice rollers where every player and the DM can see each roll. I would stick to point buy anyway. I've never seen a player put an 18 in an unmodifed stat, unless the y got too high point buy. And dumping charisma... well you might wanna tell your players that NPCs will hate them if tdhey have very low charisma, that should do the trick. I'd use 25 or 28.
sooperspook 09-19-05, 11:09 PM	If i DM i iprefer to roll the stats for everyone. That is , i roll a set of stats and everyone uses them , placed where they like.