Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Derrigan 12-08-05, 09:48 AM	This is probably one that's been asked before, but I want to know what you guys think. Not if I look fat in these pants (I do), or should I stick this penny in the light socket (I shouldn't, the voice of experience :D ). I've been gaming for over two decades now, and mastering for over half of that. I've seen more than my share of good, bad, and ugly dm's. At this point I'd like to know if explaining a character's emotion is a good mood setter, or rail roading. For example, in trying to describe a truly horrific scene, with bodies and blood, brains and snot dripping all over the place, is it...appropriate to tell them that it sends shivers down their spine? At one point I had a PC with a mood amulet, and I was wondering if I was right in telling her what colors it turned. By my logic, since few people have true control of their emotions, I believe that it fell into my realm of responsibility. However, I know there's room for error in this logic. The long and the short version is simply, should I continue, or reserve this tidbit for charm spells or other mind altering effects?
Caemin Pah 12-08-05, 10:00 AM	I myself, only do this when it seems appropriate. Otherwise, I simply describe the grisly seen, tell them awful smells, etc and let them work out how their characters feel about it themselves. Except for some of my other posts, and the one or two people who have the serious problem of not knowing how to ROLEplay (and NO, I do not want to get into another discussion about that), in which case they just sort of sit there with a "AND....????" look on thier faces, in which case I have to tell them how their characters feel. GAWD, I hate having to play FOR the players sometimes, but in certain cases it does become necessary to do just that. Ok, no more ranting......
The Violinist 12-08-05, 10:06 AM	Amen Caemin, some players just don't know how to roleplay realistic. "He just saved your life! At least thank him!!" "Hmmmmm.... (stay cool, stay cool..)" I think it's ok to tell the player how they fell towards things moraly, and realistic. For example could you tell them how their feelings are in a situation where the player reacts unrealistic. For example if a level one normal fighter, doesn't react at all when an BBEG holds his sons head in his hand. Ask him why. And if he has a sucky, or no explanation, correct him, you'r the one in charge. I try to avoid telling the players what they feel, if it totally ruins the plot, then I rather tell them in innuendo or something. Excuse my sucky English by the way...
Twisted Puppy 12-08-05, 10:07 AM	I'd go with the graphic description, and let the player decide the mood of the character. The character is theirs. Their reaction will give you a lot of insight on whether you have a roleplayer or a roll-player. You should not dictate how a character reacts to stimuli or situations. Now, the characters reactions will affect how others (party members and NPCs) react to him or her. If you describe some grizzly scene of slaughtered villagers and the character's first reaction is "wow, let's see how much stuff was left here," that says a lot about the character. I've had a player who would view such scenes calmly and toss off one-liners, while handing me a note informing me that the character is doing this to keep from either throwing up or crying in front of the others. Bottom line, let them decide how their character reacts and thinks. They'll never enjoy playing a role unless you give them the chance to do so.
pres_man 12-08-05, 10:49 AM	Though there is nothing wrong with giving a comment on how an average person would feel witnessing the situation. Let them decide if they feel stronger than an average person would, nor not care, or feel differently ("A normal person would be sickened and upset by this scene." "My character laughs and starts kicking dead bodies looking for anything valuable")
Sevil 12-08-05, 10:59 AM	Though there is nothing wrong with giving a comment on how an average person would feel witnessing the situation. Let them decide if they feel stronger than an average person would, nor not care, or feel differently ("A normal person would be sickened and upset by this scene." "My character laughs and starts kicking dead bodies looking for anything valuable") I think this is an appropriate way of handling the situation. Sometimes, as a player, it is difficult to match whatever scene the DM has in his head, with what is actually being said. Sometimes you need the encouragement to assess combat difficulty - such as fear. If you, as the DM, don't necessarily want the PCs to fight the mob, then a healthy dose of fear might help them see the difficulty.
Edrick_Malichi 12-08-05, 11:19 AM	Dealing with emotions in-game is tricky: good post. I have noticed that correctly portraying your character's emotions is a skill that most players need to develop in order to prevent their character from turing into dragon-snack; I have seen two fighters get pummelled by killable dragons because they had "no fear". It's hard to be brave when you are foolish. On the other hand (this point was already made) that the DM has no right to dictate how any PC feels because perhaps foolish is the character. If you want to question the character's response "for the sake of role-play examination" then do so - but I would never blatently tell a PC "you are *emotion*". Hinting at a possible emotion is fair game, though. "You get a chill just looking at it" "It warms your heart to see the orphan smile at you" Lines like this can have multiple feelings tied to them in the mind of a player - since a choice is still being presented I don't see anything wrong with that.
mcmurphy510 12-08-05, 12:15 PM	Telling a PC how they feel or think is generelly bad form (except in the case of mind altering stuff). However, it might be ok in some cases to guage a PC emotions based on what the player is doing (or having his PC do). If a player starts yelling (in character) at an NPC, you can guess pretty well that said PC is angry. Obviously when a barbarian rages... well, he's feeling rage. If the wizard is really getting into his new magic item, asking tons of questions, etc, you could safely say that the PC is curious. The thing is a 'mood' necklace or something like that is certantly a valid item (esp for someone in power to have if it can judge the mood of someone else). So the DM has to find a way to 'fake it' in game.
Bruunwald 12-08-05, 12:21 PM	It's probably best to try to affect the response from the players themselves through your descriptions. Like grossing them out by describing a gross scene, frightening them with a scary description, etc. However, that's not always possible. Remember though, that the players and their characters are separate entities. The rules themselves acknowledge the DM's ability to tell players how their characters feel when under spell or alignment effects, such as fear or doom. Now, I would still limit it. I would not go around telling them how they feel all the time. I certainly would try mostly to rely on good descriptions, but the simple fact of the matter is the game is set up so that the players and DM will play out what their characters' descriptions, die rolls, and influences tell them to play out, not necessarily always what they would want to play out. For instance, Joe might be a great piano player and a very graceful person in general, but he's playing a fighter in the game with a Dexterity score of 7. Joe's obligation is to play his character as a clumsy person, despite the fact that he, himself, is graceful. Likewise, an evil character ought to be played wickedly, even if played by your cousin Beth, who is a saint in real life. Likewise, the stoutest champion who fails his save against fear ought to be played as running screaming from the room, even if his player has won congressional medals for valor. In the same vein, a simple note that the PCs see something that "sends shivers up their spine" is a quick way to communicate a scary situation, and is not too much liberty to take. Otherwise, a munchkinning player will suddenly play his craven PC as courageous when it suits him. What you don't want it to do, is to lead to describing bits of action the players have not elected to take. Such as the DM who used to do this to us: "You hear something behind you that terrifies you, so you whip around and see..." It's our job to say if we whip around or not. Maybe I'd rather just run away.
FireJewel 12-08-05, 12:54 PM	By my logic, since few people have true control of their emotions, I believe that it fell into my realm of responsibility. However, I know there's room for error in this logic. The long and the short version is simply, should I continue, or reserve this tidbit for charm spells or other mind altering effects? I would stick with descriptions, only. I would get mad if someone told me how my character felt. If there is a place in the game where you need to know how the Character is feeling (like someone is reading their emotions... etc.), I would describe the scene and ask them how there character feels. You have to be a little careful doing this so you don't come across as some dime-store shrink (And how does that make you feel? :) ), but it can even encourage ROLEplaying. If can force players to examine the situation and their characters' personalities. Ex: You see a room full of ::insert horrific stuff here::. How is your character handling this situation? (Or, How is this scene affecting your character's mental state? Or, what is your character thinking about while looking at this?.. etc.)
rkr1970 12-08-05, 01:17 PM	I try NEVER to tell a particular player how his particular character reacts to something. I will, however, tell the group how they feel in general. If a party of mostly good characters walks into an evil temple, complete with the corpse of last night's sacrifice, I might say something like "Most of you feel ill just looking at the aftermath of these vile rites." This gives the less skilled RPers a clue as to what a "normal" reaction might be. If the paladin then pipes up with "I, for one, don't feel sick to my stomach. I feel a deep-seated need to find these bastards and lay down some primal justice!", so much the better. I have done what I wanted to do; evoke an emotional response from the character.
FolcoTook 12-08-05, 01:47 PM	This is a really good discussion. It's something that I hadn't really thought about consciously before. My personal style would tend towards describing the PCs involuntary/subconscious reactions (such as you fill a chill in your spine, the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, etc.) and leave the more voluntary/conscious reactions to the players. I think the "normal person would feel insert emotion" method is a really good idea. Another way to expand on that might be...Gory scene description covering the aftermath of a orc raid on a village. The more squeamish among you have trouble even looking at it.That way the players can decide if their character is among the 'more squeamish' crowd or not. Some good ideas here to think about. -FT
Phrennzy 12-08-05, 01:58 PM	I had a room that I described in fairly gory detail, the massacre that had occured. One of the combatants was chopped in half, and impaled in his torso was a sword. One player declared that his fighter would walk over and lift the torso up by the sword and hold it in the air. I declared that when he did so, the blood and rotting remains slid down the blade and onto his hand. He said, "Eh." I told him that he would be grossed out by this. He said that his fighter had an iron stomach. I made him roll (the equivalent of a Fort save) and he made it. So from that point on, his PC had an iron stomach. Sometimes the arguments lead to permanent roleplaying aspects.
Nani? 12-08-05, 02:08 PM	I imply a lot. One of the most those moments, for example, was when the party took out an Ogre camp. One of the things they found were..... childs toys, and humaniod bones too small to belong to adults in the trash heap...and meat roasting on the fire. I let them put the pieces together. All the best, Nani?
DangerDre 12-08-05, 02:47 PM	As a player I remember when a DM just finished describing a horrific scene. I was in awww. And then he added "You feel a shiver up your spine" And sure enough, I felt that shiver up my spine, and my hairs stood on end. It was icing on the cake! A good question is, will the "spine shiver of fear" cause me to run or fight harder?
PenderGrass 12-08-05, 03:30 PM	Not good to tell Players their PCs' emotions. You can relay a "sense of dread" - or, as someone else suggested, a "shiver up their spine." But, telling them that their PCs are "afraid," "horrified" or whatever is the DM going too far. Don't do it. As to everyone that is complaining that Players are playing their PCs incorrectly just because you feel that they should react a certain way - a way that YOU are imagining for them - you should get your headgear flushed. These are their PCs. Don't you control enough? You make the monsters act the way you. The inn-keeper reacts to offer of gold in whatever way you deem is proper. Nearly everything is dictated by how you view things should be. If you think that the PCs are not reacting properly to something like chopped off heads covered in maggots - they just dive in looking for that copper piece they dropped. Then I suggest you use your normal DM ability to give a contrast - DM: "Grilmere, the groups hired henchman, looks at the whole group in revulsion and fear. Slowly he backs away and dropping his pay on the ground he backs up further - the whole time his eyes are filled with absolute terror - he then turns and runs as fast as he can." or DM: "Everyone in town seems to give you wide space and rumors of your horrid behavior seems to have spread to all the neighboring villages." etc. But, NEVER tell a Player how they should feel - without some in-game reason like compulsion, fear, domination and so on. It is bad DM form. :dragon: ****
Lana "Silvertongue" 12-08-05, 04:14 PM	Don't be afraid to read the players face and see if you have envoked the proper emotion. I am pretty sure as a player, I have used my nonverbal facial expressions to express my characters feelings. Alot of inference will be in how the character goes about dealing with the situation even if he doesn't come out and say how he feels. Also good characters may infact, go up and pick up the weapons from a grizzly battle left behind with the logic that it is better the weapons be sold to avenge the massacre. An other characters are built aroung quelling emotions, so when a cleric player sighs and says his character lobbs off one of the victims heads for preservation so he can question them in the morning then proceed to pile the bodies for burning, it is not that he doesn't care, but the job at hand is his way of dealing with gore.