Another Dragon/Template Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another Dragon/Template Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shar Baenre
03-14-05, 08:01 PM Hey, its Kalithor again, but on my less conspicuous name.

Alright, the campaing in which I'm using the previously mentioned blue dragon is kinda outsider-heavy (I guess cuz I watched Constantine before starting the outline). I don't like the fiendish template, but I was wondering about somethign like this.
A dragon that is "half-fiend", would, by all logic, be only half dragon. If you guys were building something like a half-fiend dragon, would you just combine both templates, or would you use the dragon as the base creature and add the half-fiend part?
Nukacola
03-14-05, 08:08 PM If you're going strictly by the rules, creating a half-fiend dragon would involve applying the half-fiend template to a dragon. Interestingly, you could also apply the half-dragon template to a fiend as well, resulting in a half-dragon fiend. I always found this somewhat bizarre, and there's no sensible explanation provided in the RAW, but I always figured that if you're mixing creatures that have their own half-(whatever) templates, the mother would be the base creature and the father would be the template, but that's entirely up to you.
Shar Baenre
03-14-05, 10:35 PM Well, the deed is done, and its UGLY. Just thought I'd share though for accuracy's sake, just as much as enthusiasm.
I opted to stick with the original juvenile bronze dragon that hound archon paladins get. I figured that since they have the empathic link, the dragon would have been subject to the same corrupting whispers that got to the hound in the first place. So, I ended up with:

-Fiendish Juvenile Bronze Dragon-Sorc 6- Lawful Evil (caster lev 9). HD= 15 dragon+ 2 paladin/blackguard servant + 6 sorc levels (total 17d12+6d4+con). Feats-9 (can't say what, just in case). BAB of 20 before Str bonus (28 on grapples). That's about all I can give away at the moment, but how's it look to you guys (aside from the general appearance of hating my PC's?)
Mirikon
03-14-05, 10:37 PM I agree with Nuka. When dealing with two template adding races, the mother's race would be the base, and the father's race would be the template. There are some really fun combos you can do, though your DM may require a HELLUVA good backstory for the half-celestial fiend.
Kalithor
03-14-05, 11:48 PM Considering its the BBEG, I don't think explaining it to myself will be much of a problem. ;)

Buuuuut... The story is like this. I made up a back-history for Ironfang Deep (in Turmish), and the entire party is a dwarven team from that clan. I stated that prior to what the dwarves of today know as Ironfang Deep, there was another place by the same name. This original place, when discovered by the first members of the clan, was a hewn cavern with walls of solid iron. The dwarves claimed it immediately and migrated there. It was later that they discoverd that their rich mine had served another purpose. It was the prison of a Sorrowsworn Demon (MM3) with levels in Fiend of Corruption (Fiend Folio). A few of the priests were corrupted, but for the most part, the clan survived, migrating higher into the peaks to start anew.
Well, anyway, without getting into the rest of the subtext, a great hound archon/paladin-Torm and his bronze dragon found the sealed-off mine and went in to eliminate the evil inside. The hound and dragon won, but not before the demon could infect their minds with temptation. The hound and dragon then went on a killing spree, thinking themselves overly righteous, and were thrown from grace. The hound still carries his holy symbol of Torm, now unnaturally rusted. He doesn't really know that he has fallen from the light, because of the gradual "mutation" of his powers. He still venerates Torm and thinks he cannot get back into the Seven Mounting Heavens because there is still work for him to do in Faerun. He thinks his powers are still coming from Torm, but they are actually granted by the lingering essense of the demon that tainted him.
The dragon and the hound are still hospitable towards most people, but with an overzealous sense of self-righteousness. Even the slightest disfavor in front of them will start a fight. Since such fights are technically provoked, even if not justly, many people don't realize the archon has turned evil. They simply feel that perhaps the celestial value of goodness is even harder to live up to than they thought.
Hows that for story so far? Any comments?

Oh, and just to clarify how I built the archon, he's: Fiendish Hound Archon-Blackguard 7-Lawful Evil. I changed his magic circle to "vs. good" obviously, and as an added twist, I altered his "change form" ability so that now he can assume the form of a hell hound instead of any dog/wolf animal, and I made his detect good blackguard ability work for good and evil.
Other than that, he still has the archon abilities and the abilities of the fiendish template. I'm sure that mathmatically/rules lawyerly, the dragon exceeds the limit for him to still have as a mount/servant, but it serves the story.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shar Baenre 03-14-05, 08:01 PM	Hey, its Kalithor again, but on my less conspicuous name. Alright, the campaing in which I'm using the previously mentioned blue dragon is kinda outsider-heavy (I guess cuz I watched Constantine before starting the outline). I don't like the fiendish template, but I was wondering about somethign like this. A dragon that is "half-fiend", would, by all logic, be only half dragon. If you guys were building something like a half-fiend dragon, would you just combine both templates, or would you use the dragon as the base creature and add the half-fiend part?
Nukacola 03-14-05, 08:08 PM	If you're going strictly by the rules, creating a half-fiend dragon would involve applying the half-fiend template to a dragon. Interestingly, you could also apply the half-dragon template to a fiend as well, resulting in a half-dragon fiend. I always found this somewhat bizarre, and there's no sensible explanation provided in the RAW, but I always figured that if you're mixing creatures that have their own half-(whatever) templates, the mother would be the base creature and the father would be the template, but that's entirely up to you.
Shar Baenre 03-14-05, 10:35 PM	Well, the deed is done, and its UGLY. Just thought I'd share though for accuracy's sake, just as much as enthusiasm. I opted to stick with the original juvenile bronze dragon that hound archon paladins get. I figured that since they have the empathic link, the dragon would have been subject to the same corrupting whispers that got to the hound in the first place. So, I ended up with: -Fiendish Juvenile Bronze Dragon-Sorc 6- Lawful Evil (caster lev 9). HD= 15 dragon+ 2 paladin/blackguard servant + 6 sorc levels (total 17d12+6d4+con). Feats-9 (can't say what, just in case). BAB of 20 before Str bonus (28 on grapples). That's about all I can give away at the moment, but how's it look to you guys (aside from the general appearance of hating my PC's?)
Mirikon 03-14-05, 10:37 PM	I agree with Nuka. When dealing with two template adding races, the mother's race would be the base, and the father's race would be the template. There are some really fun combos you can do, though your DM may require a HELLUVA good backstory for the half-celestial fiend.
Kalithor 03-14-05, 11:48 PM	Considering its the BBEG, I don't think explaining it to myself will be much of a problem. ;) Buuuuut... The story is like this. I made up a back-history for Ironfang Deep (in Turmish), and the entire party is a dwarven team from that clan. I stated that prior to what the dwarves of today know as Ironfang Deep, there was another place by the same name. This original place, when discovered by the first members of the clan, was a hewn cavern with walls of solid iron. The dwarves claimed it immediately and migrated there. It was later that they discoverd that their rich mine had served another purpose. It was the prison of a Sorrowsworn Demon (MM3) with levels in Fiend of Corruption (Fiend Folio). A few of the priests were corrupted, but for the most part, the clan survived, migrating higher into the peaks to start anew. Well, anyway, without getting into the rest of the subtext, a great hound archon/paladin-Torm and his bronze dragon found the sealed-off mine and went in to eliminate the evil inside. The hound and dragon won, but not before the demon could infect their minds with temptation. The hound and dragon then went on a killing spree, thinking themselves overly righteous, and were thrown from grace. The hound still carries his holy symbol of Torm, now unnaturally rusted. He doesn't really know that he has fallen from the light, because of the gradual "mutation" of his powers. He still venerates Torm and thinks he cannot get back into the Seven Mounting Heavens because there is still work for him to do in Faerun. He thinks his powers are still coming from Torm, but they are actually granted by the lingering essense of the demon that tainted him. The dragon and the hound are still hospitable towards most people, but with an overzealous sense of self-righteousness. Even the slightest disfavor in front of them will start a fight. Since such fights are technically provoked, even if not justly, many people don't realize the archon has turned evil. They simply feel that perhaps the celestial value of goodness is even harder to live up to than they thought. Hows that for story so far? Any comments? Oh, and just to clarify how I built the archon, he's: Fiendish Hound Archon-Blackguard 7-Lawful Evil. I changed his magic circle to "vs. good" obviously, and as an added twist, I altered his "change form" ability so that now he can assume the form of a hell hound instead of any dog/wolf animal, and I made his detect good blackguard ability work for good and evil. Other than that, he still has the archon abilities and the abilities of the fiendish template. I'm sure that mathmatically/rules lawyerly, the dragon exceeds the limit for him to still have as a mount/servant, but it serves the story.