Another House-rule (alingment) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another House-rule (alingment) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
guru7892
10-14-06, 01:16 AM Ok, we all know alinements are a little screwy so here is what I was going to do:

- heal/harm spells affect those as they would for their patron deity would heal/harm. I.E. if your an evil cleric, a good cleric can cast a healing spell and it will affect you as a harm spell.

-only certain deities condone the use of certain necromatic spells/tendencies for clerics (ie animate dead and turning/rebuking undead).

-paladins are bound by their deities ideas, thus detect evil/smite evil are in relation to what is evil in the eyes of their patron god. violating the gods ideas will make them lose their paliden abilities. not all deities have palidens (sometimes druids and rangers take the role)

-Blackgaurds are usually connected to a demon or devil to gain additional power, but they still serve patron deities if they wish. (they just have an oustider 'benefactor')

The goal of all this is to present transparent deities. This is kinda an expansion on the idea of humanism and philosphical concepts I don't know the name of but i know kinda how they work.

simply things should become more real in the sense there is no evil. although I will allow the concepts of evil to be allowed as they are in the traditonal sense from a direct point of veiw, but the more complex elelments will be shown in the form of implication by NPC interaction, especialy after combat.

later as players realize the subtlties I will phase into a more moraly and psychologicaly ageressive form of this where combat take place not only with warriors and armed men, but with domestic residents and possibly slaves.

then the last stage begins where I can add creatures that pschologicaly are diffrent from the pcs and are not the transparent norm; but a true evil that has mental problems. this must be used sparinly as it is ment to confuse the players not to enduce a mental change.
Reversefigure4
10-14-06, 11:58 PM - Make this all totally obvious, right from the start, to your players. Any character who is a cleric or paladin would be well aware of it.

- Be prepared for problems. A good cleric finding a villager who had been kicked by a horse might heal him, only to accidentally kill him because the villager happened to be evil. Good luck explaining that to the town council.

- How does this affect worshippers of gods that don't have anything to do with each other? A worshipper of Pelor trying to cure a worshipper of Olidmarra, for example, or a druid of Obad-Hai trying to cure a worshipper of Vecna?
Sildatorak
10-15-06, 12:39 AM - Be prepared for problems. A good cleric finding a villager who had been kicked by a horse might heal him, only to accidentally kill him because the villager happened to be evil. Good luck explaining that to the town council.
This could provide an interesting way of distinguishing between 'good' gods. The semi-benevolent healing god (Pelor) only changes the spells into smiting against those thoroughly dedicated to evil gods, but the vengeful god of smiting evil (Heronius) will lay low even evil commoners.
guru7892
10-15-06, 04:24 PM - Make this all totally obvious, right from the start, to your players. Any character who is a cleric or paladin would be well aware of it.

- Be prepared for problems. A good cleric finding a villager who had been kicked by a horse might heal him, only to accidentally kill him because the villager happened to be evil. Good luck explaining that to the town council.

- How does this affect worshippers of gods that don't have anything to do with each other? A worshipper of Pelor trying to cure a worshipper of Olidmarra, for example, or a druid of Obad-Hai trying to cure a worshipper of Vecna?
yeah, i'll obviously tell my players.

umm, I'm gong to need to work out the villager and the horse scenario. I guess if the cleric had the intent of healing somone evil, the spell would just not function. that way nobody gets hurt... well even moreso. although you may allow a person to repent their sins if they are bleeding to death.

I was also planning on certain deity alliences and treaties that would allow gods to be leniat tward followers of one god and unleaniant tward followers of another.
Stev Beren
10-15-06, 09:52 PM We all don't know that alignments are screwy. Some people think ALignments are screwy because they try to make alignment somethign it isn't, and to make it do things it is not meant to do.
Toloran
10-15-06, 10:50 PM The problems with alignments is (IMO) not so much the alignments themselves but how people DM them. My personal philosophy is that alignments are a more of a shirt then a straight-jacket. A Lawful Good character wouldn't do something Chaotic evil (or anything exceptionally chaotic or evil in general). However, over time such a person might slowly drift towards chaotic evil (Ie. LG > LN > LE > NE > CE). I don't let players do anything completely out of their alignment but small things are allowed (with the warning that too many of them will result in them shifting alignments). My players and I like this system because it allows for more flexible roleplaying. The only time it becomes a problem is when a monk ceases being lawful or a paladin ceases being lawful good.

-paladins are bound by their deities ideas, thus detect evil/smite evil are in relation to what is evil in the eyes of their patron god. violating the gods ideas will make them lose their paliden abilities. not all deities have palidens (sometimes druids and rangers take the role)

I like this ruling (although admittedly most of your house rules are more of a campaign centric thing). Reason is that although certain laws always fall under lawful good, how a character reacts to breaking those laws will vary. Example: You see disrespect your liege lord. In certain societies that would merit no more then a strong rebuke from the paladin. In other socities, law might require that the paladin kill him on the spot. (an extreme example).

- heal/harm spells affect those as they would for their patron deity would heal/harm. I.E. if your an evil cleric, a good cleric can cast a healing spell and it will affect you as a harm spell.

As another person suggested, this should vary from diety to diety. Some dieties might changed that cure into a harm spell, but others might just make the heal spell not work at all. I think that (for the most part) most dieties would lean to the heal spell not working at all (a living potential folower is better then a dead one).
guru7892
10-15-06, 10:51 PM We all don't know that alignments are screwy. Some people think ALignments are screwy because they try to make alignment somethign it isn't, and to make it do things it is not meant to do.
This acualy wasn't inspired by alingments being messed up or anything. The only reason why I like this idea is to try and make things more transparent. simply people can start wondering if 'evil' deities are really bad, or just operation under diffrent morals.
Stev Beren
10-16-06, 07:16 AM Ok, we all know alinements are a little screwy.

Was what I was assuming to mean that you were saying they were?
guru7892
10-16-06, 08:04 PM Was what I was assuming to mean that you were saying they were?
oh you want to play the quoting game now? well I'll have you know there is nothing I love more than quoting myself.

Ok, we all know alinements are a little screwy so here is what I was going to do:
yes, yes, it looks like here I'm solving the alinement issue with my little fix.

This acualy wasn't inspired by alingments being messed up or anything.
ah, now here I don't deviate from from my thinking that alinements being messed up. I state my solution wasn't made because this problem. It just so happens to fix it.

so we are kinda attacking you because you didn't fix a problem you weren't trying to fix?
This is just stuck in here because I like quoting myself, but if you want to make an AP question about it...
Compare and Contrast this statement (directed at a designer, who made those filler abilities) to what I have done. explain who was more sucessful. (full thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=720916))

oh yeah, umm, lets try to get back on the topic of what I did and not who is right and who is wrong. (to be honest I was kinda waffleing on my statements and i didnt make it very clear on what my position was)
Stev Beren
10-17-06, 05:26 PM oh you want to play the quoting game now? well I'll have you know there is nothing I love more than quoting myself.

yes, yes, it looks like here I'm solving the alinement issue with my little fix.

ah, now here I don't deviate from from my thinking that alinements being messed up. I state my solution wasn't made because this problem. It just so happens to fix it.

This is just stuck in here because I like quoting myself, but if you want to make an AP question about it...
Compare and Contrast this statement (directed at a designer, who made those filler abilities) to what I have done. explain who was more sucessful. (full thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=720916))

oh yeah, umm, lets try to get back on the topic of what I did and not who is right and who is wrong. (to be honest I was kinda waffleing on my statements and i didnt make it very clear on what my position was)

That last was not an accusation, but an explaination. . .

But if you want to beoffended, feel entitled.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
guru7892 10-14-06, 01:16 AM	Ok, we all know alinements are a little screwy so here is what I was going to do: - heal/harm spells affect those as they would for their patron deity would heal/harm. I.E. if your an evil cleric, a good cleric can cast a healing spell and it will affect you as a harm spell. -only certain deities condone the use of certain necromatic spells/tendencies for clerics (ie animate dead and turning/rebuking undead). -paladins are bound by their deities ideas, thus detect evil/smite evil are in relation to what is evil in the eyes of their patron god. violating the gods ideas will make them lose their paliden abilities. not all deities have palidens (sometimes druids and rangers take the role) -Blackgaurds are usually connected to a demon or devil to gain additional power, but they still serve patron deities if they wish. (they just have an oustider 'benefactor') The goal of all this is to present transparent deities. This is kinda an expansion on the idea of humanism and philosphical concepts I don't know the name of but i know kinda how they work. simply things should become more real in the sense there is no evil. although I will allow the concepts of evil to be allowed as they are in the traditonal sense from a direct point of veiw, but the more complex elelments will be shown in the form of implication by NPC interaction, especialy after combat. later as players realize the subtlties I will phase into a more moraly and psychologicaly ageressive form of this where combat take place not only with warriors and armed men, but with domestic residents and possibly slaves. then the last stage begins where I can add creatures that pschologicaly are diffrent from the pcs and are not the transparent norm; but a true evil that has mental problems. this must be used sparinly as it is ment to confuse the players not to enduce a mental change.
Reversefigure4 10-14-06, 11:58 PM	- Make this all totally obvious, right from the start, to your players. Any character who is a cleric or paladin would be well aware of it. - Be prepared for problems. A good cleric finding a villager who had been kicked by a horse might heal him, only to accidentally kill him because the villager happened to be evil. Good luck explaining that to the town council. - How does this affect worshippers of gods that don't have anything to do with each other? A worshipper of Pelor trying to cure a worshipper of Olidmarra, for example, or a druid of Obad-Hai trying to cure a worshipper of Vecna?
Sildatorak 10-15-06, 12:39 AM	- Be prepared for problems. A good cleric finding a villager who had been kicked by a horse might heal him, only to accidentally kill him because the villager happened to be evil. Good luck explaining that to the town council. This could provide an interesting way of distinguishing between 'good' gods. The semi-benevolent healing god (Pelor) only changes the spells into smiting against those thoroughly dedicated to evil gods, but the vengeful god of smiting evil (Heronius) will lay low even evil commoners.
guru7892 10-15-06, 04:24 PM	- Make this all totally obvious, right from the start, to your players. Any character who is a cleric or paladin would be well aware of it. - Be prepared for problems. A good cleric finding a villager who had been kicked by a horse might heal him, only to accidentally kill him because the villager happened to be evil. Good luck explaining that to the town council. - How does this affect worshippers of gods that don't have anything to do with each other? A worshipper of Pelor trying to cure a worshipper of Olidmarra, for example, or a druid of Obad-Hai trying to cure a worshipper of Vecna? yeah, i'll obviously tell my players. umm, I'm gong to need to work out the villager and the horse scenario. I guess if the cleric had the intent of healing somone evil, the spell would just not function. that way nobody gets hurt... well even moreso. although you may allow a person to repent their sins if they are bleeding to death. I was also planning on certain deity alliences and treaties that would allow gods to be leniat tward followers of one god and unleaniant tward followers of another.
Stev Beren 10-15-06, 09:52 PM	We all don't know that alignments are screwy. Some people think ALignments are screwy because they try to make alignment somethign it isn't, and to make it do things it is not meant to do.
Toloran 10-15-06, 10:50 PM	The problems with alignments is (IMO) not so much the alignments themselves but how people DM them. My personal philosophy is that alignments are a more of a shirt then a straight-jacket. A Lawful Good character wouldn't do something Chaotic evil (or anything exceptionally chaotic or evil in general). However, over time such a person might slowly drift towards chaotic evil (Ie. LG > LN > LE > NE > CE). I don't let players do anything completely out of their alignment but small things are allowed (with the warning that too many of them will result in them shifting alignments). My players and I like this system because it allows for more flexible roleplaying. The only time it becomes a problem is when a monk ceases being lawful or a paladin ceases being lawful good. -paladins are bound by their deities ideas, thus detect evil/smite evil are in relation to what is evil in the eyes of their patron god. violating the gods ideas will make them lose their paliden abilities. not all deities have palidens (sometimes druids and rangers take the role) I like this ruling (although admittedly most of your house rules are more of a campaign centric thing). Reason is that although certain laws always fall under lawful good, how a character reacts to breaking those laws will vary. Example: You see disrespect your liege lord. In certain societies that would merit no more then a strong rebuke from the paladin. In other socities, law might require that the paladin kill him on the spot. (an extreme example). - heal/harm spells affect those as they would for their patron deity would heal/harm. I.E. if your an evil cleric, a good cleric can cast a healing spell and it will affect you as a harm spell. As another person suggested, this should vary from diety to diety. Some dieties might changed that cure into a harm spell, but others might just make the heal spell not work at all. I think that (for the most part) most dieties would lean to the heal spell not working at all (a living potential folower is better then a dead one).
guru7892 10-15-06, 10:51 PM	We all don't know that alignments are screwy. Some people think ALignments are screwy because they try to make alignment somethign it isn't, and to make it do things it is not meant to do. This acualy wasn't inspired by alingments being messed up or anything. The only reason why I like this idea is to try and make things more transparent. simply people can start wondering if 'evil' deities are really bad, or just operation under diffrent morals.
Stev Beren 10-16-06, 07:16 AM	Ok, we all know alinements are a little screwy. Was what I was assuming to mean that you were saying they were?
guru7892 10-16-06, 08:04 PM	Was what I was assuming to mean that you were saying they were? oh you want to play the quoting game now? well I'll have you know there is nothing I love more than quoting myself. Ok, we all know alinements are a little screwy so here is what I was going to do: yes, yes, it looks like here I'm solving the alinement issue with my little fix. This acualy wasn't inspired by alingments being messed up or anything. ah, now here I don't deviate from from my thinking that alinements being messed up. I state my solution wasn't made because this problem. It just so happens to fix it. so we are kinda attacking you because you didn't fix a problem you weren't trying to fix? This is just stuck in here because I like quoting myself, but if you want to make an AP question about it... Compare and Contrast this statement (directed at a designer, who made those filler abilities) to what I have done. explain who was more sucessful. (full thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=720916)) oh yeah, umm, lets try to get back on the topic of what I did and not who is right and who is wrong. (to be honest I was kinda waffleing on my statements and i didnt make it very clear on what my position was)
Stev Beren 10-17-06, 05:26 PM	oh you want to play the quoting game now? well I'll have you know there is nothing I love more than quoting myself. yes, yes, it looks like here I'm solving the alinement issue with my little fix. ah, now here I don't deviate from from my thinking that alinements being messed up. I state my solution wasn't made because this problem. It just so happens to fix it. This is just stuck in here because I like quoting myself, but if you want to make an AP question about it... Compare and Contrast this statement (directed at a designer, who made those filler abilities) to what I have done. explain who was more sucessful. (full thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=720916)) oh yeah, umm, lets try to get back on the topic of what I did and not who is right and who is wrong. (to be honest I was kinda waffleing on my statements and i didnt make it very clear on what my position was) That last was not an accusation, but an explaination. . . But if you want to beoffended, feel entitled.