Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dmdax 10-30-03, 09:49 AM	My player, when night start to fall, immediatly cast (mage) one of those spell and all my player a safe for the night. I can never put encounter during the night.. I place them during the day but I miss the old encounter around the camp fire and the guard watch around the camp also.. What's funnier then a gobelin sniffering around a camp just for the fun of it...:twitch:
Qaetar 10-30-03, 10:03 AM	That's just the way it is. You could always have something track to their "campsite" by scent then get confused and let them see it if any bother to stay awake. (You can see out of a rope trick.)
ikkonoishi 10-30-03, 10:08 AM	Give them a bag of holding. :D Have a kobold jump out of the bushes just after they cast it, and as its surprise round double move up the rope into the trick and then pull the rope up after it. Then the rest of its clan can attack.
dmdax 10-30-03, 10:16 AM	Speaking of Bag of Holding!!! I just post a message on the main dm page asking about that! Two of them got one, of of the them is the mage. A bag of holding or haversack in a ropetrick is a boom for sure even if not used? (opened)
ehrin 10-30-03, 11:36 AM	remember too, that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. have your enemy mages disappear into a rope trick with all the treasure a time or two, and see how the party deals with it. I bet they will create tactics to get it back that you can then use on them.
dmdax 10-30-03, 11:47 AM	the tactic is simple. Sit a few yard away to avoid being seen by the invisible window of the ropetrick.. and wait. When the spell end, the wiz will get down and if you win initiative the wizard is fried. But I can't do that with night encounter.. a wolf sitting on his lap waiting for the food to get down lol again.. by the rule does a bag of holding can be in a ropetrick??
abysslin 10-30-03, 12:13 PM	Have them wake up in the morning and there be a encampment of Ogres lounging around or similiar just outside. Another way I used to deal with this, depending on the current local, was to have there be a % chance that an extra-dimensional creature would wander itno their extra-dimensional space. They were less quick to hop on through an extra-dimensional portal after I started rolling dice. And, by rule, anything opening into an extra-dimensional space can not be in another with extra-dimensional space or the 2 explode basically killing everything in the vicinity. I believe this rule is so avoid players having portable holes within portable holes within bags of holding within rods of splendor etc... thus having an unlimited amount of space to utilize. Abyss
Grizelda 10-30-03, 04:15 PM	Originally posted by ikkonoishi Give them a bag of holding. :D Have a kobold jump out of the bushes just after they cast it, and as its surprise round double move up the rope into the trick and then pull the rope up after it. Then the rest of its clan can attack. thats outstanding! LOL on a side note i wonder what would happen if the kobolds just sat and waited for them to cast and then just as the last character was passing thru the opening their bugbear freind ran out and grabbed the end of the rope so they couldnt pull it up then they doused it with oil and lit it on fire.. :) you have to have the rope to get out right? and then while they are up there trapped in the hole you just dig a pit trap underneath it fill it with iron spikes and build a bonfire in it. :)
ikkonoishi 10-30-03, 04:46 PM	You could also have a magic using NPC notice the window and set a cage up around it. As soon as the spell wears off they find themselves trapped by an enemy that has had all night to prepare, and postition themselves. From then on they will at the least leave a guard outside.
Xavim 10-30-03, 06:07 PM	In the bag of holding description it only mentions the exploding problem in reference to the interactions of the bag of holding and the portable hole. I don't recall it mentioning the interactions of the other extradimensional spaces. The Haversack dosn't mention that you cannot place bags of holding inside of it, only that each compartment acts as a boh. So portable holes are a problem, but normal bags aren't. If someone could find me where it says one EDS inside another explode, I'd be greatful.
Mit Ratten Lebt 10-30-03, 06:57 PM	Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by- 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space. Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one. There's your EDS question hinted at. Also, even with a burnt out rope, the inside creatures can escape, and do naturally, when the spell ends. They can simply fall through the window. Nothing can see in the window from the PMP. (Prime Material Plane)
MadEdric 10-31-03, 07:00 AM	Personally, from a play point of view. So much game time is lost from constantly rolling checks during watch periods. It's tedious and rarely adds to the fun of a game. If I wanted to worry about campfires, tents and such, I'd go camping, not play D&D. It seems rather contrived that creatures adapt to someone using ropetrick or LTH, if you don't want the characters to use it, houserule the things gone. Letting them take legitimate spells and then trying to make them useless is a cat and mouse game that tends to destroy the fun in a game. As a player, it was a great relief to finally get something that rid the party of the useless confrontations that happened at night. They serve as mere distractions the majority of the time and slow down game play in general. Cheers
Bopple 10-31-03, 07:20 AM	FAQ document states bag of holding or portable hole doesn't go off in extradimensional spaces produced by spells like rope trick.
xect 10-31-03, 10:48 AM	I must admit I don't see the wrong in using magic to stay safe. I never understood why it's supposed to be so common to be attacked in your sleep anyway?
The Swedish Viking 10-31-03, 11:18 AM	Eight words: Evil DM, d20, encounter-table, fudging dice rolls.
tonkounakaki 10-31-03, 11:18 AM	What happens is a Mage comes by, detects the magic aura of the Rope Trick, and dispels it? Or, after detecting it, Creates a few Walls of Iron/Stone across the are it would exit out to? Or, after detecting it, lays a few traps for those inside when they come out Rope trick can be dealt with. As for the Question of why do you get attacked in your sleep, consider a normal camp. Fire, cooking, defecating, sleeping, STAYING IN ONE PLACE FOR 8 HOURS. Come on, any monster worth their salt in the area will know that something is around. The light from the fire will attract it, the smell from the cooking will attract it, the stench form the defecating will attract it (hey, some monsters are into those things), or they'll just blindly stumble over your campsight for no other reason that it was in their way. Remember the old adage, if your lost, stay in one place. It's easier for people to find you that way. Works for Monsters too.
tonkounakaki 10-31-03, 11:19 AM	Originally posted by The Swedish Viking Eight words: Evil DM, d20, encounter-table, fudging dice rolls. Encounter tables are done off of percentile dice, not d20s ;)
Feyd Rautha 10-31-03, 11:48 AM	First off, if they are using Leomund's tiny hut then they CAN be attacked as they basically just have a cabin. It is easier to defend than an open campsite, but it is still visible to anything that comes along. (Envisions a hill giant lifting up the roof to see what is inside if they don't set watches ;)) As for rope trick it is a tricky situation. As a DM, by the time the PC's have a rope trick that can last for 8 hours, nighttime encounters are slowly dwindling anyway. Regardless I can understand your desire for nighttime encounters because it is one of the sacred cows of DnD. Here's your biggest problem though...you've already let them do it. If you can reason with them and don't have any crybabies in your gaming group (if not you're a very very lucky person) then here are some ideas. -These spaces are NOT comfortable, and they are cramped. I don't have my books with me, but the numbers they are listing are for people standing up...you take up at least twice the horizontal space when you lie down. -No fire. Are they eating trail rations every day? Nobody has any problems with this in character? If it is a low roleplaying group that's fine..I don't judge, but who ever said that the interior of that thing was heat controlled. A night where a fire would keep them from having a fatigue bonus the next day is a good night to suggest they use their rope trick. -Spreading of sickness. I give my players colds and other nastiness. If you are in that cramped of a space then EVERYBODY else will get it. -Stink factor. One good Dwarven cabbage fart can ruin an entire night. Inflict nausea on anybody staying in the crammed space after such encounters...not to mention the fact that they've been travelling all day and if they are paranoid enough to use rope trick all the time they probably don't bathe regularly. -Magical nausea. Dwarves especially and non-mages in general might very well have a problem with the non-space that the trick creates. They've done it quite a bit so they might be used to it, but if they are willing to accept realistic ideas then you could insert this one. Also, you might have them merely be floating in a bubble on the ethereal plane and have a pack of ethereal marauders or phase spiders shadow them for days. It's kind of hard to sleep when all that's separating you from these scary beasties is a thin magical film. You can expand on all of these, but I suggest discussing it with your group first before you start saying..okay you all wake up fatigued today... Feyd
YRM 10-31-03, 01:30 PM	I'd agree with the above poster in that it isn't the most comfortable possible sleeping quarters... something could be done in regards to that. Another thing you could do, along the ways you're already going, is to just let them comfortably avoid night encounters for a few sessions. During those sessions, some reason should occur for powerful enemies to become angry off at the PCs. After enjoying the safety of rope trick for a few sessions, they are pursued by a quartet of powerful bounty hunters. Maybe, foreshadow this by letting the party see a shadowy figure sneaking around their camp, but quickly leaving... then don't bring it up again for a session or two. Finally, the enemy has tracked, scried, researched and studied the party. When they go to bed in the rope trick space, the enemy mage makes all his allies invisible, and the noisier ones he has fly. The enemies sneak up to pre-determined spots around the camp, and, the signal for them to attack is clear. The Wizard pulls out a scroll of Greater Dispelling cast by a more powerful wizard... it has 3 spells on it, the wizard has cast 'see invisibility' so he knows where the rope trick is, because they've determined that this is probably what the PCs are doing through research and experience of tracking. A listen and spellcraft check could maybe let the PCs in on the fact that something is up, but only if the first Greater Dispelling fails. Eventually, the Rope Trick will be dispelled, ending the spell and ejecting the party to the groud. I don't even know if casting dispel magic against a spell would be considered an offensive gesture that would break invisibility... maybe... Now the enemy should have a surprise round, and the party should at least roll a balance check of a fairly tough DC not to land prone. So you've got your party on the ground, probably prone, and the fighter types don't wear their armor (you don't let them sleep in their armor without the proper feats do you?). The enemy has a surprise round, and at least 3 of them are invisible, giving the rouge the option to just move into position for a full round, flanking sneak attack. Perhaps give the Rogue a Sap and give the Ranger a Merciful Bow... the monk can already do subdual damage. Try to quickly knock the PCs out, and capture them. If they succeed in winning this fight, which you should design so that it's at least possible, if unlikely, then the campaign continues on it's way. If they lose, they are captured and dragged before whatever enemy they have angered. The next session, or conclusion of this session, should involve the party trying to escape from the main enemy... but forever after they're aware that a group of bounty hunters has discovered their tendancies. In future sessions, even have well known NPCs hear the story of the PCs capture... they will always think twice before falling back on this tactic, and instead see some value in relying on a more actively alert way to rest for the night, even if it means posting guards outside the rope trick, you'll have your night encounter's back.
Sachiel 11-02-03, 06:39 PM	Of course...any evil mage who walks around the woods at night casting detect magic all over the place, only to create pit traps and iron walls around potential rope tricks... ...I'd say he needs to get a different hobby.
Potion Smuggler 11-02-03, 09:38 PM	Originally posted by Sachiel Of course...any evil mage who walks around the woods at night casting detect magic all over the place, only to create pit traps and iron walls around potential rope tricks... ...I'd say he needs to get a different hobby. . . . Like sleeping, for instance. Then again, I'm a proponent of the strategy of simply Fireballing them while they're climbing up. . . The PCs are burned, the rope's burned, and perhaps most importantly, the players' self-confidence is burned.
Inigo Carmine 11-02-03, 09:53 PM	Keep in mind that PCs climb at 1/4 speed when climbing a rope, and you lose your dex bonus to AC. This means if a rogue catches your players, they could take a beating before they can get into the extra-dimensional space.
Dasein 11-02-03, 10:02 PM	If rope trick is causing you headaches, wait until your characters get more powerful spells. As DM, you need to take in consideration the power levels of your characters, and plan your campaigns accordingly. If your players are able to effectively avoid random encounters when resting, then you're campaign is at the point where mundane random encounters are no longer aplpicable. That simple, really. Dasein
Endarire 11-02-03, 10:10 PM	Rope tricks can't be dispelled since they create extradimensional space and the window is just a portal. Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. -EE
Endarire 11-02-03, 10:10 PM	Also, night encounters are overrated. Let the arcanist 'waste' a spell every day. -EE
Potion Smuggler 11-02-03, 11:20 PM	Originally posted by Endarire Rope tricks can't be dispelled since they create extradimensional space and the window is just a portal. -EE It can still be used to counterspell, correct? And it can also be used as a targeted dispel to disenchant the rope. Furthermore, in my view, your assertion that Rope Trick cannot be dispelled is debatable. While spells cannot be cast across (that is, through) the extradimensional interface, and area affects cannot cross it, there is no stipulation that I have seen in either Dispel Magic or Rope Trick that suggests that Dispel Magic will not close the extradimensional interface, which is magical. Dispel Magic cannot, in my view, cause the pocket dimension itself to cease existence. Dispel Magic would overlap Rope Trick and therefore dispel that portion of it. The duration of this closure is technically permanent, meaning that under those guidelines, the characters would presumably be forever trapped in a pocket dimension just large enough for 8 people. However, even the epic Dispel seed only closes an extradimensional interface for 1d4 rounds, throwing this information into doubt. It would be the DM's call. . . And an interesting springboard for an extraplanar campaign, theoretically, when the wizard casts Rope Trick again (assuming he has the space and comfort needed to re-memorize it, if he doesn't have a second casting) and sucks both himself and the occupants of the Rope Trick into the Astral Plane in a violent fashion. In addition, an Antimagic Field would in my view suppress the extradimensional interface. The evil mage in question could simply walk over to the rope trick with Antimagic Field activated and close the interface for the duration (which is long. . . Long enough to convince players that it is permanent and cause them to wet their pants).
Rabe 11-03-03, 08:21 AM	Anyone remembers Mordenkainens Magnificent Mansion from 1st Edition? It even came with servants and inbuilt security :) Basically random encounters at night are things with which you cant bother magic wielders for long....be it druids who take root over night, mages who sleep head under as bats in a tree, or a wizard doing a magical mansion...the higher the caster, the more they will avoid them, partly because they are not part of the story (this last part applies to longstanding jaundiced players mostly). Later on, prepare for the group to teleport, windwalk, shadow walk, or fly to their goals, just to avoid the ambush by giants on the road :) Rabe
YRM 11-03-03, 12:00 PM	Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Yes, this is true, and it means that you can't pelt the inhabitants of a Rope Trick with fireballs, magic missiles, acid arrows, or mass charm spells. When rope trick ends, the characters inside are ejected. Since you can see the rope trick 'hole' with a simple detect invisibility spell, I can't see any reason why you can't target the area of the rope trick with DISPEL. This wouldn't cross into the space and work on the PCs within, but it should work on the spell itself. Remember, you can't dispel flesh to stone, because the spell is instantaneous, and the statue left behind is just the result of a fully complete spell. Rope Trick DOES have a duration, nothing in the description says that you can't dispel rope trick, and dispelling the area where the Rope Trick crosses the material plane (the hole) seems reasonable... it's not as if Rope Trick is a permanent portal to another dimension... and dispelling the 'hole' to trap the inhabitants and starve them to death doesn't seem likely either. So yes, you can dispel rope trick and expel the inhabitants, and that quote from the PHB or anything else I've read, doesn't refute that RT can be dispelled.