Another RP problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another RP problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gamerd0rk
01-30-06, 06:58 PM Ever since, like the middle ages, Ive wanted to have a meaningful campaign were the players really get into their roles. But its been 1.5 years and still no dice. My party is always concerned about making there characters the best at something, wether it be stealth, or damage, or magic. And thats ususaly fine, but its distracting from the plot, so they are always focused on more monsters, more treasure, and more XP. Which has led to a lot of meta-game thinking. And so I was just wondering if there were any ideas I could try out in my games to discourage this. Some sort of punnishment for non roleplaying. but I never did like punishing the character, because it doesn't make sense for that all of a sudden some of there gold goes missing. So if you know anything, let me know. Or am I just chasing a wild goose.
Blackavar
01-30-06, 07:32 PM The way to get your players to roleplay is by necessity. Apparently your players have already learned how to roll-play well, and the benefit is obvious (they're more effective in battle). Now they need to learn role-play well, and in order to do that, you have to show them the benefits of good role-playing, in game world terms. Here's how I suggest bringing them around:

1) Show them that knowledge is power. Chances are, they've already used divinations to study their foes and learn about their enemies' strengths and weaknesses, so this step might already be done. If not, has some NPC domonstrate it (either for their benefit or against them). Soon, they'll see the practical value of knowledge.

2) Show them how useful a social network is for gathering information (and I don't mean the gather information skill here). Then they will see the practical value of talking to NPC's, and if they're really commited to power, then I can assure you they will start talking to NPC's more, just to get the knowledge from their social network.

3) As obvious as this sounds, this is the most important one: give your NPC's in-depth characters. When your PC's see how detailed and complete your NPC's are, they'll start giving their characters' personalaties depth as well.

Now, you don't need to make up non-roleplaying penalties. That would probably only alienate them anyway. Just give them all the benefits of good role-playing.

Good luck!
totoro
01-31-06, 12:11 AM Read the DMG II about how to treat your players.
Wizards_White_Knight
01-31-06, 12:20 AM Personally, I feel that if they aren't roleplaying with your NPC's but they want information and use the "I got a 36 on my gather info check, what do I know" route, yous hould then tell them only the relevant information (I.E Where the evil baron hides his keep) and none of the extra stuff they would get if the took the effort to get to know your NPC. (I.E This is where the keep is, and as an old guard of that place, Ic an tell you that he has a masticore guard the front entrance. Perhaps if you use the hidden back door...)

They will learn that the game goes a lot smoother if they at least try to interact with the world they are in than kill it all.
BW0222
01-31-06, 03:36 AM Well... my recommendations... FWIW.

1) Fixed XP. Say 250xp or 350xp per four hour session. Don't matter if that session has three combats or the players sit around discussing women in the tavern, they get the same. Pretty soon the idea of going out and killing someone is less appealing. It also means as they progress in levels, their isn't anything they can do to gain levels faster. Killing bigger and bigger things brings them no closer to becoming more powerful.

2) Fewer combats. Try no more than one per session or even as low as one per two sessions. If they aren't killing things, they must be roleplaying.

3) Detailed backgrounds and goals. Spend time before the campaign starts working on backgrounds. Make them details. Include friends, families, jobs, co-workers, etc. Give them a place to live. Most classes should have mentors, guilds, and/or churches which a PC might belong to. Each PC should know 5-10 NPCs. Try to work some small scale goals into each background. For example, one PC is trying to get money to save his families farm.

4) Limit treasure.

5) Roleplay NPCs and settings appropriately. Beating someone up in the bar lands you in jail. Smart mouthing a noble gets your tongue cut out. Encourage folks to treat people appropriately. Have NPCs -- good, bad, or neutral -- with their own goals. Not all of which should come into conflict with the PCs. Further, include bad-guys which can not be defeated by direct combat. For example, a spy working in the city guard needs to be exposed. However, the PCs need to find out who and then get proof.

6) Allow players to set goals. Expose folks to lots of possible ideas, choices, and NPCs. Allow them to decide where to do. For example, have a job board in town, a the PCs sister asking for help at the farm, and a cleric's church asking for aid. Let the PCs decide where they want to go first.
Rokugatsu_chan
01-31-06, 10:02 AM Encourage your players to write backgrounds. I never start a roleplaying session without getting a background from each player. It helps me to pick out what players backgrounds I can pull into the story and where to draw the lines to connect the dots. There's nothing to pull a character into a story than to base something around them, not just one, all of them.

If your characters have a legendary weapon, have them explain how they got it. Why they have certain magic items, how they became a wizard or a barbarian, who are their mentors and who their family is, what role the play. If they give you the classic "my parents died when I was young when orcs destroyed my village" hand them the sheet and be very blunt, "I can't work with this. If you want this story to feature you as a character you need to come up with something I can work with".
"So orcs destroyed your village? Did one of them take you in? Did they train you in the way of their berserker warriors? Did they give you that scar over your right eye and you killed so many they came to respect you as whatever you are? Did you marry one of the slaves they left behind? Were you a half-orc babe that was left behind with the shamed victim of an orc raid?" Etc.

Encourage discussion and roleplay. I wouldn't say punish them for fighting by setting an amount of experience for encounters, but issue bonus XP for good roleplay. Have them vote at the end, who roleplayed the best this session? And give them XP for figuring something out about the plot, "so my character learned that the spy network was working through the city guard, by putting notes in the pommel of swords" "kay, you get a bonus 100 XP" That gives them something to work toward.

Also create recurring NPCs and themes. The best thing is when the characters go after a villain that's escaped them many different times, and then finally crushing his evil little head with extreme prejudice.

You can give prizes at the end of adventures too. Like if they reach epic level give them an epic item. Are they a ranger whose animal companions keep dying protecting them in battle? Give 'em a brachyurus! Reward the players don't punish.

Lastly, make the villains someone they'll hate. Absolutely hate as a person. If you know your players and someone is enraged by people who abuse political power, put in a corrupt governing body, or if someone hates animal abuse, have the person experiment on them. Give them something to loathe and bring forth that emotion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gamerd0rk 01-30-06, 06:58 PM	Ever since, like the middle ages, Ive wanted to have a meaningful campaign were the players really get into their roles. But its been 1.5 years and still no dice. My party is always concerned about making there characters the best at something, wether it be stealth, or damage, or magic. And thats ususaly fine, but its distracting from the plot, so they are always focused on more monsters, more treasure, and more XP. Which has led to a lot of meta-game thinking. And so I was just wondering if there were any ideas I could try out in my games to discourage this. Some sort of punnishment for non roleplaying. but I never did like punishing the character, because it doesn't make sense for that all of a sudden some of there gold goes missing. So if you know anything, let me know. Or am I just chasing a wild goose.
Blackavar 01-30-06, 07:32 PM	The way to get your players to roleplay is by necessity. Apparently your players have already learned how to roll-play well, and the benefit is obvious (they're more effective in battle). Now they need to learn role-play well, and in order to do that, you have to show them the benefits of good role-playing, in game world terms. Here's how I suggest bringing them around: 1) Show them that knowledge is power. Chances are, they've already used divinations to study their foes and learn about their enemies' strengths and weaknesses, so this step might already be done. If not, has some NPC domonstrate it (either for their benefit or against them). Soon, they'll see the practical value of knowledge. 2) Show them how useful a social network is for gathering information (and I don't mean the gather information skill here). Then they will see the practical value of talking to NPC's, and if they're really commited to power, then I can assure you they will start talking to NPC's more, just to get the knowledge from their social network. 3) As obvious as this sounds, this is the most important one: give your NPC's in-depth characters. When your PC's see how detailed and complete your NPC's are, they'll start giving their characters' personalaties depth as well. Now, you don't need to make up non-roleplaying penalties. That would probably only alienate them anyway. Just give them all the benefits of good role-playing. Good luck!
totoro 01-31-06, 12:11 AM	Read the DMG II about how to treat your players.
Wizards_White_Knight 01-31-06, 12:20 AM	Personally, I feel that if they aren't roleplaying with your NPC's but they want information and use the "I got a 36 on my gather info check, what do I know" route, yous hould then tell them only the relevant information (I.E Where the evil baron hides his keep) and none of the extra stuff they would get if the took the effort to get to know your NPC. (I.E This is where the keep is, and as an old guard of that place, Ic an tell you that he has a masticore guard the front entrance. Perhaps if you use the hidden back door...) They will learn that the game goes a lot smoother if they at least try to interact with the world they are in than kill it all.
BW0222 01-31-06, 03:36 AM	Well... my recommendations... FWIW. 1) Fixed XP. Say 250xp or 350xp per four hour session. Don't matter if that session has three combats or the players sit around discussing women in the tavern, they get the same. Pretty soon the idea of going out and killing someone is less appealing. It also means as they progress in levels, their isn't anything they can do to gain levels faster. Killing bigger and bigger things brings them no closer to becoming more powerful. 2) Fewer combats. Try no more than one per session or even as low as one per two sessions. If they aren't killing things, they must be roleplaying. 3) Detailed backgrounds and goals. Spend time before the campaign starts working on backgrounds. Make them details. Include friends, families, jobs, co-workers, etc. Give them a place to live. Most classes should have mentors, guilds, and/or churches which a PC might belong to. Each PC should know 5-10 NPCs. Try to work some small scale goals into each background. For example, one PC is trying to get money to save his families farm. 4) Limit treasure. 5) Roleplay NPCs and settings appropriately. Beating someone up in the bar lands you in jail. Smart mouthing a noble gets your tongue cut out. Encourage folks to treat people appropriately. Have NPCs -- good, bad, or neutral -- with their own goals. Not all of which should come into conflict with the PCs. Further, include bad-guys which can not be defeated by direct combat. For example, a spy working in the city guard needs to be exposed. However, the PCs need to find out who and then get proof. 6) Allow players to set goals. Expose folks to lots of possible ideas, choices, and NPCs. Allow them to decide where to do. For example, have a job board in town, a the PCs sister asking for help at the farm, and a cleric's church asking for aid. Let the PCs decide where they want to go first.
Rokugatsu_chan 01-31-06, 10:02 AM	Encourage your players to write backgrounds. I never start a roleplaying session without getting a background from each player. It helps me to pick out what players backgrounds I can pull into the story and where to draw the lines to connect the dots. There's nothing to pull a character into a story than to base something around them, not just one, all of them. If your characters have a legendary weapon, have them explain how they got it. Why they have certain magic items, how they became a wizard or a barbarian, who are their mentors and who their family is, what role the play. If they give you the classic "my parents died when I was young when orcs destroyed my village" hand them the sheet and be very blunt, "I can't work with this. If you want this story to feature you as a character you need to come up with something I can work with". "So orcs destroyed your village? Did one of them take you in? Did they train you in the way of their berserker warriors? Did they give you that scar over your right eye and you killed so many they came to respect you as whatever you are? Did you marry one of the slaves they left behind? Were you a half-orc babe that was left behind with the shamed victim of an orc raid?" Etc. Encourage discussion and roleplay. I wouldn't say punish them for fighting by setting an amount of experience for encounters, but issue bonus XP for good roleplay. Have them vote at the end, who roleplayed the best this session? And give them XP for figuring something out about the plot, "so my character learned that the spy network was working through the city guard, by putting notes in the pommel of swords" "kay, you get a bonus 100 XP" That gives them something to work toward. Also create recurring NPCs and themes. The best thing is when the characters go after a villain that's escaped them many different times, and then finally crushing his evil little head with extreme prejudice. You can give prizes at the end of adventures too. Like if they reach epic level give them an epic item. Are they a ranger whose animal companions keep dying protecting them in battle? Give 'em a brachyurus! Reward the players don't punish. Lastly, make the villains someone they'll hate. Absolutely hate as a person. If you know your players and someone is enraged by people who abuse political power, put in a corrupt governing body, or if someone hates animal abuse, have the person experiment on them. Give them something to loathe and bring forth that emotion.