Anti heros... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anti heros... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darcon_Firedrake
12-09-06, 01:53 AM I need to know what to counter act my PC's with. The PC's will eventualy save the world from the release of the 'Elder Elemental Eye' (if they fail to do this a 40th level elf wizard will cast time stop and close the portal the God is coming out of...) and well, i would like to know what to create to be there arch nemisi. The party is curently 5th level and there is a Warlock, a barbarian, 2 (kill it all) fighters, a monk, a 1st level fighter/4th level Cleric.

Any ideas?
YamiSouru
12-09-06, 02:01 AM well...for one. dont cop out with the wizard. its just a generally bad idea i think. it creates a feel of "hrmm well i could easily do this BUT i want you to do it instea d because i have more important things then saveing the world"

As for a arch nemisis to serve as the BBEG. Evil responds greatest when they have been wronged, take a member of a previous group the party has destroyed and give him some substantial power. Then write his backstory around the effect of "when you killed my people you didnt kill all of us." you get a nice little revenge plot, makes the players question their methods, and you could even make him a cultist dedicated to the god that the players are trying to prevent from entering the world.

Put all togethor in a bowl, stir, let simmer for 12 minutes, stir again, let cool, and you should have a workable arch nemisis.
Darcon_Firedrake
12-09-06, 02:23 AM As for a arch nemisis to serve as the BBEG. Evil responds greatest when they have been wronged, take a member of a previous group the party has destroyed and give him some substantial power. Then write his backstory around the effect of "when you killed my people you didnt kill all of us." you get a nice little revenge plot, makes the players question their methods, and you could even make him a cultist dedicated to the god that the players are trying to prevent from entering the world.

Well, the first group of creatures they killed were a big group of kobolds and i always wanted to make a kobold swashbuckler named Inigo Montoya... and he could be a kid of one of the kobolds killed and he mets up with the cultists after they raid the temple and kill the few worshipers there... and where the Mayors daughter is killed buy a cultist and then a low profile NPC will escape and blame the PC's... What do you think?
YamiSouru
12-09-06, 02:34 AM Where as you give a suggestion i rename it a plot hook waiting to happen. Honestly you "anti-heroes" will hop up in arms about something like this. Also if you make a swashbuckler kobold you have to remeber one very important thing, they move very fast for a small creature. Make use of that speed, and invest in feats that help with that. Nothing is more anoying then a small enemy makeing a thousand cuts into you and moveing around you like a monkey with a haste spell cast on it.
xaqariah
12-09-06, 12:54 PM I like the Kobold idea. It's never more humbling than to be taken down by a creature you were able to squash 5 Levels previous, just because he has some unexpected Levels in him.

Also, there's nothing like a PC group to take down a group of PCs.

As long as you keep it balanced to the power level of the players, a rival group that strikes, and then retreats "to fight another day" can be a great addition to a story, as long as it doesn't pop up TOO often.

If the rival group is looking to do the exact opposite of what the players eventually need to accomplish, then there are a number of good reasons that they keep running into eachother.

XYZ relic can be used to release the 'Elder Elemental Eye'. The players need to find and destroy it, while the rival group needs to get that item.

If the players win, great! The rivals need to find a new way to reach their goals. (There's more than one way to skin a cat... or release an 'Elder Elemental Eye')

If the rivals win, then end has not come, because the rivals still need to perform ABC ritual to release the power of the relic. The players are now on a desperate time-table to get to the location of the ritual, and either stop it, and/or destroy the relic before the ritual is completed.

Lots of fun and suspense awaits a group with rivals.

:D
Darcon_Firedrake
12-09-06, 01:11 PM Thanks for the help. does any one have ideas for what the Rival party should be? i have:
Koblod swashbuckler
Human Cleric (of the Elder Elemental Eye [Fire aspect])
Fire Gnome Fighter.
I need 2 or 3 more NPC's
YamiSouru
12-09-06, 01:57 PM hrmm. well if you going to have a 5 party group. id say grab a Beguiler and a sorcerror. doesnt really matter what race for either of them except the beguiler should most likely be human.

The beguiler will be able to use his illusions and enchantments to controll the battle field for his allies to attack and the sorceror can take the spot of resident nuker.

Also the beguiler fills in for the skill monkey position as well.
Darcon_Firedrake
12-10-06, 01:28 AM Yeah, that would work, I have a Beguiler that is going to lead them in to the Thieves Guild (next sesion) as a double agent working on behalf of the guild.
But I think I will replace the Sorc with a Warlock. ok so now the party is:
Koblod Swashbuckler,
Human Cleric,
Half-fire elf Fighter,
Human Beguiler,
Fire gnome Warlock.
Angelflesh
12-10-06, 02:45 AM Seems kinda like a rag-tag group of random "bad guys". How do you explain how the party came together? Humans and Half-Elves i understand. A Kobold not so much, but a Fire Gnome? Come on, what's the story here?
YamiSouru
12-10-06, 02:49 AM angel has a point. from a stat stand point. you have your basis covered. now you have to create the reason the group is togethor, though in this case it could be very easy to cop out and say that they are members of the same order and were chosen to work togethor.
Darcon_Firedrake
12-10-06, 03:02 AM Ok well, The Fire gnome, the Cleric and the half fire elf, all worship the Elder Elemental Eye (fire aspect), and the Beguiler is the son of the Cleric, and the PC's killed the kobold's father, and then is converted to a believer of the Elemental Eye.
Darcon_Firedrake
12-10-06, 03:12 AM Well the planing goes in to action tomorrow and i need sleep talk with you latter.
Lazaro
12-10-06, 04:16 AM ...I always wanted to make a kobold swashbuckler named Inigo Montoya...

Sorry, can't resist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0348.html) it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html).
Roivas
12-10-06, 04:59 AM Quite possibly my favorite issues [don't know if that's the proper term] of OotS. I can't help but collapse laughing every time Belkar says "Stop saying that!".
So advice for your villians though, make sure they stay at range and neutralize the warlock quickly. Seems like your party has plenty of close combat monkeys but I doubt they could stand tough against a ranged assault. For getting the warlock out of the way I advise poison that effects his dexerity, it might not take him out completely but his attacks will be severely weakened by his lowered accuracy.
Darcon_Firedrake
12-10-06, 02:22 PM Well i thank you all for your help, but it seems it will not be put to use....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darcon_Firedrake 12-09-06, 01:53 AM	I need to know what to counter act my PC's with. The PC's will eventualy save the world from the release of the 'Elder Elemental Eye' (if they fail to do this a 40th level elf wizard will cast time stop and close the portal the God is coming out of...) and well, i would like to know what to create to be there arch nemisi. The party is curently 5th level and there is a Warlock, a barbarian, 2 (kill it all) fighters, a monk, a 1st level fighter/4th level Cleric. Any ideas?
YamiSouru 12-09-06, 02:01 AM	well...for one. dont cop out with the wizard. its just a generally bad idea i think. it creates a feel of "hrmm well i could easily do this BUT i want you to do it instea d because i have more important things then saveing the world" As for a arch nemisis to serve as the BBEG. Evil responds greatest when they have been wronged, take a member of a previous group the party has destroyed and give him some substantial power. Then write his backstory around the effect of "when you killed my people you didnt kill all of us." you get a nice little revenge plot, makes the players question their methods, and you could even make him a cultist dedicated to the god that the players are trying to prevent from entering the world. Put all togethor in a bowl, stir, let simmer for 12 minutes, stir again, let cool, and you should have a workable arch nemisis.
Darcon_Firedrake 12-09-06, 02:23 AM	As for a arch nemisis to serve as the BBEG. Evil responds greatest when they have been wronged, take a member of a previous group the party has destroyed and give him some substantial power. Then write his backstory around the effect of "when you killed my people you didnt kill all of us." you get a nice little revenge plot, makes the players question their methods, and you could even make him a cultist dedicated to the god that the players are trying to prevent from entering the world. Well, the first group of creatures they killed were a big group of kobolds and i always wanted to make a kobold swashbuckler named Inigo Montoya... and he could be a kid of one of the kobolds killed and he mets up with the cultists after they raid the temple and kill the few worshipers there... and where the Mayors daughter is killed buy a cultist and then a low profile NPC will escape and blame the PC's... What do you think?
YamiSouru 12-09-06, 02:34 AM	Where as you give a suggestion i rename it a plot hook waiting to happen. Honestly you "anti-heroes" will hop up in arms about something like this. Also if you make a swashbuckler kobold you have to remeber one very important thing, they move very fast for a small creature. Make use of that speed, and invest in feats that help with that. Nothing is more anoying then a small enemy makeing a thousand cuts into you and moveing around you like a monkey with a haste spell cast on it.
xaqariah 12-09-06, 12:54 PM	I like the Kobold idea. It's never more humbling than to be taken down by a creature you were able to squash 5 Levels previous, just because he has some unexpected Levels in him. Also, there's nothing like a PC group to take down a group of PCs. As long as you keep it balanced to the power level of the players, a rival group that strikes, and then retreats "to fight another day" can be a great addition to a story, as long as it doesn't pop up TOO often. If the rival group is looking to do the exact opposite of what the players eventually need to accomplish, then there are a number of good reasons that they keep running into eachother. XYZ relic can be used to release the 'Elder Elemental Eye'. The players need to find and destroy it, while the rival group needs to get that item. If the players win, great! The rivals need to find a new way to reach their goals. (There's more than one way to skin a cat... or release an 'Elder Elemental Eye') If the rivals win, then end has not come, because the rivals still need to perform ABC ritual to release the power of the relic. The players are now on a desperate time-table to get to the location of the ritual, and either stop it, and/or destroy the relic before the ritual is completed. Lots of fun and suspense awaits a group with rivals. :D
Darcon_Firedrake 12-09-06, 01:11 PM	Thanks for the help. does any one have ideas for what the Rival party should be? i have: Koblod swashbuckler Human Cleric (of the Elder Elemental Eye [Fire aspect]) Fire Gnome Fighter. I need 2 or 3 more NPC's
YamiSouru 12-09-06, 01:57 PM	hrmm. well if you going to have a 5 party group. id say grab a Beguiler and a sorcerror. doesnt really matter what race for either of them except the beguiler should most likely be human. The beguiler will be able to use his illusions and enchantments to controll the battle field for his allies to attack and the sorceror can take the spot of resident nuker. Also the beguiler fills in for the skill monkey position as well.
Darcon_Firedrake 12-10-06, 01:28 AM	Yeah, that would work, I have a Beguiler that is going to lead them in to the Thieves Guild (next sesion) as a double agent working on behalf of the guild. But I think I will replace the Sorc with a Warlock. ok so now the party is: Koblod Swashbuckler, Human Cleric, Half-fire elf Fighter, Human Beguiler, Fire gnome Warlock.
Angelflesh 12-10-06, 02:45 AM	Seems kinda like a rag-tag group of random "bad guys". How do you explain how the party came together? Humans and Half-Elves i understand. A Kobold not so much, but a Fire Gnome? Come on, what's the story here?
YamiSouru 12-10-06, 02:49 AM	angel has a point. from a stat stand point. you have your basis covered. now you have to create the reason the group is togethor, though in this case it could be very easy to cop out and say that they are members of the same order and were chosen to work togethor.
Darcon_Firedrake 12-10-06, 03:02 AM	Ok well, The Fire gnome, the Cleric and the half fire elf, all worship the Elder Elemental Eye (fire aspect), and the Beguiler is the son of the Cleric, and the PC's killed the kobold's father, and then is converted to a believer of the Elemental Eye.
Darcon_Firedrake 12-10-06, 03:12 AM	Well the planing goes in to action tomorrow and i need sleep talk with you latter.
Lazaro 12-10-06, 04:16 AM	...I always wanted to make a kobold swashbuckler named Inigo Montoya... Sorry, can't resist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0348.html) it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html).
Roivas 12-10-06, 04:59 AM	Quite possibly my favorite issues [don't know if that's the proper term] of OotS. I can't help but collapse laughing every time Belkar says "Stop saying that!". So advice for your villians though, make sure they stay at range and neutralize the warlock quickly. Seems like your party has plenty of close combat monkeys but I doubt they could stand tough against a ranged assault. For getting the warlock out of the way I advise poison that effects his dexerity, it might not take him out completely but his attacks will be severely weakened by his lowered accuracy.
Darcon_Firedrake 12-10-06, 02:22 PM	Well i thank you all for your help, but it seems it will not be put to use....